Ni-Oh (PS4)

johnny_ultimate · 23-02-2017 1:35pm

Just me or do the 'recommended level' suggestions become a bit meaningless later on? They're scaling at a level far beyond what I'm earning through normal play (including sub-missions). At the same time, I've played a main mission around ten levels above my current one and found it no bother (albeit with some higher level equipment).

May be sacrilege to some, but part of me wonders if the game might have even benefited from the lite-RPG elements being made even lite-r. I certainly think there's some notable benefits in being able to customise how you play (I say that as a happily overpowered Onmyo mage

), but I also feel I spend more time than I'd like in menus during what is above all else an excellent, pure action game.

DinoRex · 23-02-2017 1:48pm

It's the loot system that's totally putting me off. Haven't played for a few days as I simply find the idea of having to sort through my inventory utterly daunting.

Like pretty much everything else except for every single enemy dropping vaguely different versions of the same weapons which just clutter everything up.

I guess some people like this sort of Destiny/Diablo style loot system but I hate it. And both Diablo and Destiny seem to do a much better job of implementing it.

Andrew76 · 23-02-2017 2:57pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Just me or do the 'recommended level' suggestions become a bit meaningless later on? They're scaling at a level far beyond what I'm earning through normal play (including sub-missions). At the same time, I've played a main mission around ten levels above my current one and found it no bother (albeit with some higher level equipment).

May be sacrilege to some, but part of me wonders if the game might have even benefited from the lite-RPG elements being made even lite-r. I certainly think there's some notable benefits in being able to customise how you play (I say that as a happily overpowered Onmyo mage ), but I also feel I spend more time than I'd like in menus during what is above all else an excellent, pure action game.

What level are you rocking at the minute JU? Only level 49 myself and in the second region. In the middle of my first Twilight mission (lvl 30 something I think) and it's ok so far - looks like they change each evening or something.

I don't mind the RPG elements tbh, they provide a bit of relief from the onslaught. But I also like the nerdiness of it, checking through the menus to see if I can learn anything new (usually to be disappointed by not having cleared some mysterious ???? mission. :rolleyes:) or gained any prestige points, doing a bit of blacksmithing etc.

I'm guessing I'm playing the game at a much slower pace than most so the negative aspects don't bother me as much.

One thing I haven't done much of so far is fighting revenants, but apparently the Glory you earn from them can be spent later in the game when some

treehouse thing

is unlocked.

DinoRex wrote: »

It's the loot system that's totally putting me off. Haven't played for a few days as I simply find the idea of having to sort through my inventory utterly daunting.

Like pretty much everything else except for every single enemy dropping vaguely different versions of the same weapons which just clutter everything up.

I guess some people like this sort of Destiny/Diablo style loot system but I hate it. And both Diablo and Destiny seem to do a much better job of implementing it.

Regarding the inventory, I try not to let mine build up too much before visiting the blacksmith. I usually just check if I have anything better than my current gear/weapons or maybe a set piece I want to hold on to. Lock those items then just use R2 to select everything not locked or equipped and dismantle the lot in one go. Nice and tidy inventory again.

You get bugger all for selling it and I'm assuming/guessing I might need the materials for some crafting later on in the game.

I was a fan of the loot in Diablo3 alright so the amount of it in this game doesn't bother me.

heebusjeebus · 23-02-2017 3:10pm

I'm at the 3rd area and I've still no idea what the blacksmith can do for me.
I've started to just dissemble unused armour and weapons after each mission. Cant be dealing with going through hundreds of items.
I'm liking the combat but the enemies are getting boring. Not much variety yet.
I'm spending most of my time with the kusarigama and dual katanas. Nearly always in low stance. Haven't felt the need to change stances.

johnny_ultimate · 23-02-2017 3:12pm

Andrew76 wrote:

What level are you rocking at the minute JU?

Currently at level 85, while the next main mission has a recommended level of 103 (my weapons are currently up around that level). In 5th region, attempting to finish before Zelda next week (complicated at the moment by film festival demands on time).

Here's my somewhat 'make it up as I go along' build as it stands.

johnny_ultimate · 23-02-2017 3:28pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

I'm at the 3rd area and I've still no idea what the blacksmith can do for me.
I've started to just dissemble unused armour and weapons after each mission. Cant be dealing with going through hundreds of items.
I'm liking the combat but the enemies are getting boring. Not much variety yet.
I'm spending most of my time with the kusarigama and dual katanas. Nearly always in low stance. Haven't felt the need to change stances.

Lack of variety is definitely a concern. While I'm still encountering some novel and interesting level design later on, the enemy variety almost does it a disservice. So many of the Yokai are just reskins with an extra move or two. Think the game could definitely have been tightened up pacing wise.

I've been using the axe and also haven't found much need to switch from mid stance (low occasionally, never really use high). I have max familiarity with axes and a mystic art (the final axe dojo mission was almost farcically easy), so going to try and force myself to use swords for a bit as they're definitely faster.

And yeah, have just been disassembling weapons and armour en masse too. Easiest way to handle it.

ZeitgeistGlee · 23-02-2017 6:44pm

A decent system I've found for loot is to offer everything yellow and below at the shrine, and break down everything blue and above at the blacksmith. That way you're making amrita and getting bonus elixirs while also getting materials for forging armour/weapons if you need them, or just selling off the mats as they're usually worth more.

nix · 23-02-2017 11:17pm

Unless it has a damage bonus to your main stat, i wouldnt worry too much about hanging on to a weapon, or worry about losing/selling it.

I had a killer sword with a familiarity bonus multiplier and a bonus from the heart stat, i used it for most of the game and changed to try another sword i got at the end of the game. I ended up selling the other sword in error forgetting to put the lock back on it, likely from just doing a fashion change

I couldnt buy it back either as i sold it with a load of stuff and buyback only lets you buy back your last few items

EDIT:

I started another character to run a kurisagma/ninja build, at level 84. Decided im gonna go for platinum, so went to load up my main save where i have finished the game, to start on mastering the other weapons, was a pretty high level and the save file is gone :mad:

This game just keeps fecking me over :mad:

GeorgeStobort · 24-02-2017 9:52am

Thinking of picking this up today . Is the deluxe edition worth the extra cash

DinoRex · 24-02-2017 1:34pm

nix wrote: »

EDIT:

I started another character to run a kurisagma/ninja build, at level 84. Decided im gonna go for platinum, so went to load up my main save where i have finished the game, to start on mastering the other weapons, was a pretty high level and the save file is gone :mad:

This game just keeps fecking me over :mad:

Nasty. Read that was an issue last week. Thought it would have been patched by now.

GeorgeStobort · 24-02-2017 2:29pm

What are the best stats to level up early in the game

nix · 24-02-2017 4:44pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

What are the best stats to level up early in the game

What weapon/s are you going with?

Outside your main stats, depending on your weapon, i would advise getting spirit up so you can get all of the passives on the guardian spirit you decide to use, get it to around 11-12 for the earlier spririts and then up to 20-21.

Onymo is incredibly useful so id advise getting that up to 10 and then 15 for later. But no major rush on ony for the earlier zones.

johnny_ultimate · 24-02-2017 8:20pm

Have downed

Gasha-dokuro

so onto the final stretch now. Difficulty feels like it's finally picked up a bit: still manageable so far, although nasty to discover a few

Onryoki

lurking around mid-level! I do like that most of the levels continue to have different ideas and settings, nice to have a few more open spaces after a few cramped castles and the like.

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

What are the best stats to level up early in the game

Definitely put a few levels into magic. You don't unlock sloth talismans for a little bit, but when you do they're lifesavers and gamechangers. A couple of elemental spells equipped will also make a big difference.

ZeitgeistGlee · 25-02-2017 6:26pm

Just got the platinum trophy, feels good.

nix · 26-02-2017 1:37am

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Just got the platinum trophy, feels good.

Nice, working on it now, thinking the only pain in the arse one will be the taking all the hot spa's in the game

ZeitgeistGlee · 26-02-2017 3:04am

nix wrote: »

Nice, working on it now, thinking the only pain in the arse one will be the taking all the hot spa's in the game

Yeah, it and getting the

Orochi scale to actually drop

for the

Materials

trophy were my last two. Was at 92% trying to figure out

which 2 springs I hadn't visited

, ended up backtracking about 6 levels. As it turns out

the one just before Oda

is worth 8%. Silly stuff not just making each worth 5%.

Did the first few Way of Strong missions, tough but manageable so far. Not looking forward to

Hino Emma again

GeorgeStobort · 26-02-2017 2:37pm

nix wrote: »

What weapon/s are you going with?

Outside your main stats, depending on your weapon, i would advise getting spirit up so you can get all of the passives on the guardian spirit you decide to use, get it to around 11-12 for the earlier spririts and then up to 20-21.

Onymo is incredibly useful so id advise getting that up to 10 and then 15 for later. But no major rush on ony for the earlier zones.

I'm going with the katana and the axe. I've put everything into strength so far . That's what I did for bloodborne apart from a little in vitality and it was a breeze

nix · 26-02-2017 3:51pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

I'm going with the katana and the axe. I've put everything into strength so far . That's what I did for bloodborne apart from a little in vitality and it was a breeze

Yeah it doesnt work quite the same as bloodborne, pretty much all stats raise HP and attack. so yeah if using axe mostly stack str and heart of using sword mostly. And put points into magic and spirit.

You also might need to raise the other stats to reach requirements for certain armours. You can also respecc so dont put too much thought into it

Evade · 26-02-2017 4:01pm

nix wrote: »

You can also respecc so dont put too much thought into it

Can you buy the respec item as often as you want?

nix · 26-02-2017 4:27pm

Evade wrote: »

Can you buy the respec item as often as you want?

Yeah the smith sells it, but it goes up in price each time. I've only bought it once as you get some from quest rewards in the later missions. it went from 10k for the first one to 30k for the next one, so id predict the next time it will be 60-90k. You can also get them in the teahouse for faction points or whatever they're called..

I'm sure there is probably easier ways to farm them also that i havent stumbled into yet.

Book of reincarnation the item is called by the way..

Andrew76 · 26-02-2017 7:24pm

The third book is 100k I saw. Haven't used them myself yet though.

ZeitgeistGlee · 26-02-2017 10:33pm

4th one is 300k, accidentally bought the 2nd and 3rd ones together due to fat finger syndrome. You can also get them from

Danjo in the Tea House for glory

which might be easier to farm.

Evade · 26-02-2017 11:58pm

One annoyance I've come across is not being able to backtrack once you beat the boss. I entered a boss room by accident while trying to circle around to the last kodama so I had to redo the whole mission just to get him.

johnny_ultimate · 27-02-2017 8:47pm

And I'm done.

Overall thoroughly enjoyed it. A couple of notches easier than Dark Souls and the like I reckon, if anybody is on the fence for that reason. Didn't summon any help, and there was no major difficulty spikes beyond the second main boss oddly enough - if you can get past her, you're flying.

A few things hold it back from being great (it's merely really good instead). It overstays its welcome somewhat given the variety of creatures on display - while the level design stays sharp 'til the end, it's frustrating having to fight the same monsters a couple of dozen times. As I've said before, the loot system creates more busywork than is strictly necessary. I think the

hydra monster

also let things down in the final stretch - an annoying gimmick fight that abandons the sort of focused, one-on-one (occasionally two or three) combat the game excels at in favour of

almost 360 degree projectiles

flying around the gaff. Rectified a bit by a better epilogue boss, thankfully.

I won't be talking about Ni-Oh with the same sort of affection I have reserved for the best From games. But Team Ninja are also clearly back on form after many off years. If there is a sequel or follow-up of some description, it'd be great to see them shake off the shackles off their inspiration a little more and go to town. Ultimately, the game is at its best when it plays like a more tactical, slower-paced follow-up to Ninja Gaiden - and the team sure as hell can put together a satisfying combat system.

Andrew76 · 27-02-2017 10:30pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

And I'm done.

Overall thoroughly enjoyed it. A couple of notches easier than Dark Souls and the like I reckon, if anybody is on the fence for that reason. Didn't summon any help, and there was no major difficulty spikes beyond the second main boss oddly enough - if you can get past her, you're flying.

A few things hold it back from being great (it's merely really good instead). It overstays its welcome somewhat given the variety of creatures on display - while the level design stays sharp 'til the end, it's frustrating having to fight the same monsters a couple of dozen times. As I've said before, the loot system creates more busywork than is strictly necessary. I think the
hydra monster
also let things down in the final stretch - an annoying gimmick fight that abandons the sort of focused, one-on-one (occasionally two or three) combat the game excels at in favour of
almost 360 degree projectiles
flying around the gaff. Rectified a bit by a better epilogue boss, thankfully.

I won't be talking about Ni-Oh with the same sort of affection I have reserved for the best From games. But Team Ninja are also clearly back on form after many off years. If there is a sequel or follow-up of some description, it'd be great to see them shake off the shackles off their inspiration a little more and go to town. Ultimately, the game is at its best when it plays like a more tactical, slower-paced follow-up to Ninja Gaiden - and the team sure as hell can put together a satisfying combat system.

There's some new content coming before the DLC:

In late March, Team Ninja will release a free Nioh update with 10 high difficulty missions, including boss rush-style missions.
In late April, another free update will add a PvP update to Nioh.
The first Nioh DLC, Dragon of Tohoku, also arrives in late April. It includes new weapons, scenarios, characters, guardian spirits, yokai and stages.
The second Nioh DLC is called Japan’s Best Warrior and has not been dated.
The third Nioh DLC is called Peaceful and Tranquil and has not been dated.

But before all that isn't there NG+ modes available and divine weapons etc? Plenty to keep one busy after the end credits roll, unless you're too busy running about Hyrule.

I've just made it to the fourth region, still no snow.

Those water levels in regoin 3 - a few too many times I dodged an attack straight into the sea and dead.

Up to lvl 61 and mainly focussing on Magic, Dex and Body, few extra points in Skill. And yeah, Sloth Talisman is incredibly useful for tougher opponents - brilliant it is. I'm also using Weakness & Devigorate Talismans with Power Pill, Suppa Scroll to sneak back to a corpse and Quick-change Scroll is mighty handy before going into a boss fight.

Easily my favourite PS4 game to date.

johnny_ultimate · 27-02-2017 11:07pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

But before all that isn't there NG+ modes available and divine weapons etc? Plenty to keep one busy after the end credits roll, unless you're too busy running about Hyrule.

NG+ rarely interests me in any game TBH, and feel I've experienced most of what the game has to offer at this point. A few sub-missions I might wrap up if I get a chance, but have a few shorter indie games to work through before Hyrule beckons on Friday!

I'll keep an eye on the DLC and see how that is, but I can already tell you that the first pack is destined to be neglected for a good while in favour of Persona 5

Easily my favourite PS4 game to date.

Not on the same level as Bloodborne or The Last Guardian for me, but still the sort of high-quality, relatively niche game it's great to see Sony supporting - especially when this game looked like vapourware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j14e9zTnVbk

Evade · 01-03-2017 3:30am

40 hours in and I've only stumbled upon the sloth talisman now. It's my own fault for ignoring magic, I suppose.

nix · 01-03-2017 4:46am

Evade wrote: »

40 hours in and I've only stumbled upon the sloth talisman now. It's my own fault for ignoring magic, I suppose.

Yeah it really makes boss fights super easy, the spikes you throw on the ground in the ninja tree are also just as useful.

GeorgeStobort · 01-03-2017 11:35am

Stuck on the 2nd boss . She's so fast . I think I've messed up ploughing every single point into strength. Thinking of starting again

ZeitgeistGlee · 01-03-2017 11:43am

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

Stuck on the 2nd boss . She's so fast . I think I've messed up ploughing every single point into strength. Thinking of starting again

Salt is pretty useful against her, and she's probably the toughest early boss IMO. Focus on timing your dodges and if using an axe a high stance heavy combo to break her ki.

Alternatively you can buy a book of reincarnation from the blacksmith that will let you respec for 30k.

What level are you?

GeorgeStobort · 01-03-2017 11:52am

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

Salt is pretty useful against her, and she's probably the toughest early boss IMO. Focus on timing your dodges and if using an axe a high stance heavy combo to break her ki.

Alternatively you can buy a book of reincarnation from the blacksmith that will let you respec for 30k.

What level are you?

I'm level 15 . I know magic sloth 1 would make things easier but not sure what I need to do with my current character to get that .

I need 3 more on myo magic skill points I think . How do I get them

heebusjeebus · 01-03-2017 11:55am

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

I'm level 15 . I know magic sloth 1 would make things easier but not sure what I need to do with my current character to get that .

I need 3 more on myo magic skill points I think . How do I get them

Sloth doesn't unlock for a good while yet. Think it's after a certain dojo training session.

GeorgeStobort · 01-03-2017 12:24pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Sloth doesn't unlock for a good while yet. Think it's after a certain dojo training session.

I saw someone on YouTube fight that boss with sloth

GeorgeStobort · 01-03-2017 12:25pm

How do I get back to the map screen to access the blacksmith

heebusjeebus · 01-03-2017 12:31pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

How do I get back to the map screen to access the blacksmith

Use one of your branches. Himorogi Branch i think.

sweetie · 01-03-2017 12:49pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Use one of your branches. Himorogi Branch i think.

Do you lose progress in the current mission?

heebusjeebus · 01-03-2017 1:01pm

sweetie wrote: »

Do you lose progress in the current mission?

I think so. There is another branch that can be used unlimited times but you'll lose all amrita you've gained.

bugs · 01-03-2017 1:11pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

I saw someone on YouTube fight that boss with sloth

Probably playing it new game + or Twilight. It's not possible to acquire sloth at that point first time around. Axe & high stance, dodge and move away from everything until she throws one of her melee combos, hit her with a two hit combo and retreat, rinse and repeat.

ZeitgeistGlee · 01-03-2017 2:04pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

I'm level 15 . I know magic sloth 1 would make things easier but not sure what I need to do with my current character to get that .

I need 3 more on myo magic skill points I think . How do I get them

You can't get Sloth yet, you'll need to do Apprentice Onmyou training in the Dojo which doesn't unlock until after the 3rd main mission IIRC. That aside Hino Enma is there to teach you the importance of dodging/reacting in Nioh for later enemies like those feathered bastards or a guy you'll have to beat soon-ish.

I suppose the two obvious things to say additionally would be to make sure you're using an axe given it scales primarily off strength (with maybe a spear as a back-up weapon) and to make sure you're staying under 70% weight limit so you don't end up too slow to dodge/recover ki. Make sure as well you're using living weapon when the opportunity arises, Kato (the Fire Dog) IMO is probably the best early one to use.

bugs wrote: »

Axe & high stance, dodge and move away from everything until she throws one of her melee combos, hit her with a two hit combo and retreat, rinse and repeat.

The above pretty much covers how to fight her with an axe, make sure you have anti-paralysis needles and salt slotted in your quickbar as well. If she gets a hard paralyse use a needle to clear out of the way before she can drain you.

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

How do I get back to the map screen to access the blacksmith

If you have one the Himorogi Branch will let you get back to the map without losing your amrita, if you don't the Himorogi Fragment will do the same but you'll lose any amrita you've collected.

DinoRex · 01-03-2017 2:55pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

Stuck on the 2nd boss . She's so fast . I think I've messed up ploughing every single point into strength. Thinking of starting again

Another helpful tip is to have kunai or shurikens equipped and hit her when she's in the air, causes massive stamina damage to her.

Personally I found the spear the best melee weapon to use against her due to the range.

derfderf · 02-03-2017 11:55am

How much gold are people carrying? I've just spent around a million leveing up the 7 pieces of warrior of the west gear to levels 75-80.
I'm level 72 at the moment i think.

ZeitgeistGlee · 02-03-2017 1:57pm

derfderf wrote: »

How much gold are people carrying? I've just spent around a million leveing up the 7 pieces of warrior of the west gear to levels 75-80.
I'm level 72 at the moment i think.

Soul Matching isn't viable during your initial playthrough, you'll never be making enough money under ordinary circumstances to keep up with the cost (it rises with gear level as you probably noticed).

Generally speaking you're better off just wearing whatever is the highest level and best bonus gear you've got (farming revenants along the way is pretty easy) rather than trying to maintain a particular set.

The Red Demon set being an exception due to its sheer popularity and therefore drop-rate among Revenants.

If you're dead-set on trying to keep the WotW set then IMO you're better off

farming Tachibana until he drops his three recipes (armor set, bow and katana) and then breaking down enough gear for the mats (and forging them into higher quality ones) to forge it along with farming whatever demon smithing material is needed (can't remember off the top of my head, don't think it's a horn).

As a warning, there is a large degree of RNG in forging, you can easily offer all purple materials and get a white forged so if you're inclined to save scum it's not a bad idea. Even if you get a purple it can have crappy bonuses which warrant significant reforging. You won't want to be doing this more than every 10 or so levels to make sure you don't deplete out your mats. I would still recommend leaving trying to maintain a set until after your first run though.

(I had about 4.5m at the end of my run but I was mostly either offering gear for amrita or breaking it down for mats so I'm not sure how much you could have if you primarily broke down gear and sold the mats which are generally worth more than the weapons/armors themselves.)

Sephiroth_dude · 02-03-2017 2:12pm

Is it possible too get the plat in one run?

ZeitgeistGlee · 02-03-2017 2:49pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Is it possible too get the plat in one run?

Yep, I got my plat before I ever touched Way of the Strong, although Nioh works a bit different to Dark Souls in that NG and NG+ are separate so you can swap between them whenever you like at the map screen.

Sephiroth_dude · 02-03-2017 3:04pm

I'm gonna get the next I think , dieing too play it :pac:.

GeorgeStobort · 02-03-2017 4:14pm

I wish I didn't download this game so I could trade it in . I hate it . Love dark souls 1 3 and bloodborne. Finished them all but the difficulty of this thing is a joke . I might start another game from the very beginning in a few days because my current build is useless

Sephiroth_dude · 02-03-2017 5:12pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

I wish I didn't download this game so I could trade it in . I hate it . Love dark souls 1 3 and bloodborne. Finished them all but the difficulty of this thing is a joke . I might start another game from the very beginning in a few days because my current build is useless

You mean you're finding it harder than dark souls?

GeorgeStobort · 02-03-2017 5:42pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

You mean you're finding it harder than dark souls?

Yes way harder

bugs · 02-03-2017 5:52pm

GeorgeStobort wrote: »

Yes way harder

If you're still stuck on the second boss, summon someone to help, I'm sure anyone here would be happy to help out. While it is a good learning fight, it is a bit of a step up in difficulty. The subsequent missions are much easier.

Your stats at that stage in the game won't be making it much more difficult so I'd avoid restarting.

johnny_ultimate · 02-03-2017 6:12pm

Yeah I'd be very surprised if it was possible to mess up a build at an early stage of the game: so much of your power is based on equipment that I'd say level stats are a good bit less important than they are in Dark Souls.

I know this isn't much help if you're really stuck so apologies if it comes across negatively, but I genuinely believe the game is considerably easier than a Souls game - so if you've gotten past them, you definitely should be able to make it through this! Practice Ki Pulse, learn the weaknesses of the bosses (most are stunnable, even that challenging second boss who can be knocked right out of the air), charge your living weapon before boss battles and save it 'til you're desperate, and above all take risks. It's definitely a game where you need to get right in there - if you stand back and play defensively like you might in DS fights will become much more difficult. The balance between attack and defense is much more lopsided towards the former here!

One other tip for the early game - the Living Water skills are invaluable. Being able to Ki Pulse through dodging will speed up the flow of the game and keep you moving with a decent amount of stamina to play with

Ni-Oh (PS4)

Comments