Deep Space Nine Runthrough

Indricotherium · 29-08-2016 11:14am

darklighter wrote: »

I'm amazed when anyone tries to argue that it isnt......its the best by a country mile! (IMO obviously )

It's the only one that stands on it's own feet as a good tv show I think.

29-08-2016 11:22am

I'm very curious - how many people have reevaluated DS9 since having a rewatch?

I absolutely have. Have always had a special place in my heart for the series, but since watching it on Netflix, this has grown.

There's a crazy amount of ham, for sure -- the "other" Bashir from that alternative dimension, which has been revisited more times than is necessary, is an absolute horror to watch.

Indricotherium · 29-08-2016 11:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm very curious - how many people have reevaluated DS9 since having a rewatch?

I think the big thing with DS9 was that it introduced a new type of structure for TV shows.

Abandoning (somewhat) the villain of the week, episodic format that dominated television storytelling at the time was a huge move, and it changed television.

DS9 proved that audiences would watch a show that was to a degree inaccessible if you hadn't seen most of what had come before.

Without DS9 who knows, would there have been a Sopranos?

In this light, when you hold it up against what what it inspired, or allowed to be made, Sopranos, Madmen, Arrested Development, BSG,..... other shows that use the same background story-arc structure, I have to say it is nowhere near as good as them (and many other shows), they are all way way better than it. Better stories, better structure, better writing, better themes, better acting, basically better everything.

Nevertheless, DS9 definitely paved the way with the format and so it deserves very high regard.

The_Valeyard · 29-08-2016 5:31pm

Andrea Huge Shellfish wrote: »

I know it's not ST but Babylon 5 got really good as well. Maybe not quiet DS9 but not far off....once you got past season 1 and the continuous incidental music

I enjoyed B5, the civil war story was done very well, and the plots tied in well. It's just the special effects let it down so badly!!

Indricotherium · 29-08-2016 6:24pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I enjoyed B5, the civil war story was done very well, and the plots tied in well. It's just the special effects let it down so badly!!

Is it worth watching. Am I misremembering... Has Babylon 5 got some seriously dodgy alien make-up?

The_Valeyard · 29-08-2016 7:34pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Is it worth watching. Am I misremembering... Has Babylon 5 got some seriously dodgy alien make-up?

The story is actually quite good, all comes together nicely. But yes, you need to ignore the special effects, etc.

TheIrishGrover · 30-08-2016 12:03pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I think the big thing with DS9 was that it introduced a new type of structure for TV shows.

Abandoning (somewhat) the villain of the week, episodic format that dominated television storytelling at the time was a huge move, and it changed television.

DS9 proved that audiences would watch a show that was to a degree inaccessible if you hadn't seen most of what had come before.

Without DS9 who knows, would there have been a Sopranos?

In this light, when you hold it up against what what it inspired, or allowed to be made, Sopranos, Madmen, Arrested Development, BSG,..... other shows that use the same background story-arc structure, I have to say it is nowhere near as good as them (and many other shows), they are all way way better than it. Better stories, better structure, better writing, better themes, better acting, basically better everything.

Nevertheless, DS9 definitely paved the way with the format and so it deserves very high regard.

That's a bit of a leap. TV series had being doing serialized, multi-season arcs for years before DS9. More adult orientated shows regularly used long story arcs with villian-of-the-week storylines running in parallel. It did bring this to the mainstream of Sci-Fi shows though. And brought it to family-oriented programming.

Optimus Prime · 30-08-2016 12:16pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Is it worth watching. Am I misremembering... Has Babylon 5 got some seriously dodgy alien make-up?

The over-arching story in B5 is one of the best ever seen on TV. Nuggets dropped into season 1 that dont pay off until Season 4, the build up of mythology from multiple different races, the reveals of how everything was connected. It really was amazing, the story was one of the best and the characters where well acted with history and real motivations for doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Id say its aged really badly now unfortunately, the CGI. But it was so well written with so many layers it might be forgivable if you can look past the effects. Some of the later space battles where great, the ship designs where fantastic. (at the time, havent watched it in over 10 years.) I loved it though mainly because the story was so layered and intertwined it was great.

Indricotherium · 30-08-2016 12:28pm

Optimus Prime wrote: »

The over-arching story in B5 is one of the best ever seen on TV. Nuggets dropped into season 1 that dont pay off until Season 4, the build up of mythology from multiple different races, the reveals of how everything was connect. It really was amazing, the story was one of the best and the characters where well acted with history and real motivations for doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Id say its aged really badly now unfortunately, the CGI. But it was so well written with so many layers it might be forgivable if you can look past the effects. Some of the later space battles where great, the ship designs where fantastic. (at the time, havent watched it in over 10 years.) I loved it though mainly because the story was so layered and intertwined it was great.

Groan. I'll add it to the list so.

The_Valeyard · 30-08-2016 4:10pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Groan. I'll add it to the list so.

Just be careful which order you watch it in. Lol

Indricotherium · 30-08-2016 4:14pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Just be careful which order you watch it in. Lol

I haven't seen Babylon 4 will that matter.

Optimus Prime · 30-08-2016 4:14pm

True, look up a viewing guide, watching the tv movie things first would ruin it.

The_Valeyard · 30-08-2016 4:15pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I haven't seen Babylon 4 will that matter.

Very few have, since it vanished.

Optimus Prime · 30-08-2016 4:26pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Very few have, since it vanished.

Bravo. This made my day.

Cookie_Monster · 01-09-2016 11:07pm

Have managed to catch the odd episode of DS9 on one of the chanels over here recently, late season 5. It really is quality.

"Brunt, FCA"

The Ferengi stories that are dropped in throughout it are gold

Indricotherium · 02-09-2016 9:01am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Have managed to catch the odd episode of DS9 on one of the chanels over here recently, late season 5. It really is quality.

"Brunt, FCA"

The Ferengi stories that are dropped in throughout it are gold

100%.

Brunt is brilliant.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 02-09-2016 2:13pm

It wasn't until recently that I realised Jeffrey Combs played both Brunt and Weyoun.

The_Valeyard · 02-09-2016 6:52pm

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

It wasn't until recently that I realised Jeffrey Combs played both Brunt and Weyoun.

He really is a talented actor. He also plays the andorian Shran from Enterprise. And Prent in Voyager

Indricotherium · 05-09-2016 2:57pm

Just watching season 3 episode 17 "visionary".

Very good episode.

Notes:

Starfleet intelligence are aware that there are three Klingon spies on ds9, while there is a Romulan delegation on board and don't inform Sisko et all.

Klingon spies!

O'Brien stands up for the suicide mission without even batting an eye! Fairplay.

Dartboard introduced.

O'Brien still goes to bed, in his Jim jams no less despite knowing the station is going to explode.

O'Briens Jim jams are a magenta dress with calf lenght boots.

There are Romulans knocking about, and a quantum singularity orbiting the station, and nobody immediately realises it's a cloaked warbird.

Several characters mix up hypothesis and theory.

O'Brien says "twenty outer-ring" instead of "double-top".

No mention at all of temporal prime directive. The crew immediately use time travel to gain information from the future and alter the present.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 07-09-2016 5:57pm

There are many articles floating about explaining why DS9 is the best Star Trek series, but here's a newly published one...

http://io9.gizmodo.com/deep-space-nine-is-star-treks-best-world-because-its-t-1786060432

08-09-2016 10:07am

Something I absolutely forgot was how Gul Dukat was actually allied with DS9 to an extent and even liked. I loved the episode where Kira and he are trying to free his daughter and he sits on something sharp and just the laughter afterwards.

1hnr79jr65 · 08-09-2016 10:23am

S4 EP22 - To The Death

Omet'iklan: I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: victory is life.

Jem'Hadar: Victory is life!

Weyoun: Such a delightful people.

O'Brien: I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way.

I love O'Briens line here, totally serious but in a slapstick way. Great episode too showing mutual respect between Sisko and the Jem Hadar soldiers going after rebels and the iconian gateway.

09-09-2016 3:27pm

Just finished watching Trials & Tribulations, where they go back in time to Kirk and it really was such a technological wonder for the time - it does seem pretty seamless between the old footage and what DS9 was doing.

learn_more · 13-09-2016 1:42am

I always think that Gul Dukat looks like Mitt Romney.

For me the series was made by odo and Garrak, well especially Garrak. His highly intelligent , sometimes camp interjections were always of some amusement. I love the scene where he was invited into a private meeting with Cisco to measure a suit, deliberately, so he could overhear and leak information.

I was sorry that when I watched it I only did so in drips and drabs, but I had a hectic social life at the time, so I lost the plot, so to speak.

I recall that I was disappointed that that woman was re-embodied in the last series. There was no substance to her character at all thus it was a bit hard to accept her as a serious character.

PS. Gonna watch T&T now , never seen it.

Edit: So funny and nostalgic. Loved it.

1hnr79jr65 · 13-09-2016 7:59am

learn_more wrote: »

I always think that Gul Dukat looks like Mitt Romney.

For me the series was made by odo and Garrak, well especially Garrak. His highly intelligent , sometimes camp interjections were always of some amusement. I love the scene where he was invited into a private meeting with Cisco to measure a suit, deliberately, so he could overhear and leak information.

I was sorry that when I watched it I only did so in drips and drabs, but I had a hectic social life at the time, so I lost the plot, so to speak.

I recall that I was disappointed that that woman was re-embodied in the last series. There was no substance to her character at all thus it was a bit hard to accept her as a serious character.

PS. Gonna watch T&T now , never seen it.

Edit: So funny and nostalgic. Loved it.

Oh man Garak is a legend, my fav ep with him was when him, Bashir, Worf and Martok were trapped on a prison asteroid and then you learn of Garak's vunerabilities, the first crack in an otherwise steely exterior.

keane2097 · 13-09-2016 12:08pm

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Oh man Garak is a legend, my fav ep with him was when him, Bashir, Worf and Martok were trapped on a prison asteroid and then you learn of Garak's vunerabilities, the first crack in an otherwise steely exterior.

That is an unbelievable (couple of?) episode(s).

13-09-2016 12:09pm

I never understood why they replaced the Dax character. It didn't make sense to bring in an entirely new person just for a single season, which isn't anywhere near enough time to introduce them fully, especially when they are filling in such big shoes that was left.

It might have been much better if they had left that space empty, with the station having to cope with it.

Something that was completely lost on me is just how good Colm Meaney was as O'Brien. The episode, especially, where he is made to believe he was a prisoner for 20 years, really shows off his acting chops.

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 12:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I never understood why they replaced the Dax character. It didn't make sense to bring in an entirely new person just for a single season, which isn't anywhere near enough time to introduce them fully, especially when they are filling in such big shoes that was left.

It might have been much better if they had left that space empty, with the station having to cope with it.

Lol big shoes.

You couldn't set up the whole symbiote thing and then not do it.

Could it have gone into another already established cast member ... That would have been good.... Into a bad guy maybe...

Into Worf would have been good but only for an episode or two.

13-09-2016 12:40pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol big shoes.

You couldn't set up the whole symbiote thing and then not do it.

Could it have gone into another already established cast member ... That would have been good.... Into a bad guy maybe...

Into Worf would have been good but only for an episode or two.

We had that with Riker in TNG, before the Trill were fully established.

I agree though. Ezri was meant to be painful. Jadzia was dead but Dax was not.
It was good to show how the symbiote lived on with a new host, it was a good way of the audience feeling some of the weirdness of the process

Riskymove · 13-09-2016 12:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I never understood why they replaced the Dax character.

The actress chose to leave the show

13-09-2016 1:08pm

Riskymove wrote: »

The actress chose to leave the show

That's not his point. They replaced the character as well as the actor

13-09-2016 2:29pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Lol big shoes.

You couldn't set up the whole symbiote thing and then not do it.

Could it have gone into another already established cast member ... That would have been good.... Into a bad guy maybe...

Into Worf would have been good but only for an episode or two.

Big shoes in that we spent quite a lot of the previous seasons with this specific character and that you were familiar with.

I get that the Trill could live on, but it would have been interesting if the symbiot had died as well, thus ending the Dax lineage, and you have everyone (including Sisko) dealing with the loss of Dax and the loss of
Jadzia.

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 3:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Big shoes in that we spent quite a lot of the previous seasons with this specific character and that you were familiar with.

I get that the Trill could live on, but it would have been interesting if the symbiot had died as well, thus ending the Dax lineage, and you have everyone (including Sisko) dealing with the loss of Dax and the loss of
Jadzia.

Or flip it and have dax dying and jadzia living on with a drastically different personality. Thats what I'd have done.

13-09-2016 4:15pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Or flip it and have dax dying and jadzia living on with a drastically different personality. Thats what I'd have done.

Host cannot live without symbiote

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 4:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Host cannot live without symbiote

I'm sure Bashir could come up with some mcguffin to sort that.

13-09-2016 4:23pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I'm sure Bashir could come up with some mcguffin to sort that.

He tried and failed in an episode

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 4:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He tried and failed in an episode

but sure that's a matter of just writing it the other way?

Myrddin · 13-09-2016 4:41pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

but sure that's a matter of just writing it the other way?

Must remember that one

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 4:47pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Must remember that one

The speculation here is completely re-writing the second season? I'd have thought small stumbling blocks like it couldn't be done in an earlier episode wouldn't be insurmountable.

Sure the thing is riddled with this type of retcon.

Myrddin · 13-09-2016 5:09pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

The speculation here is completely re-writing the second season? I'd have thought small stumbling blocks like it couldn't be done in an earlier episode wouldn't be insurmountable.

Sure the thing is riddled with this type of retcon.

You've lost me

How do you mean?

the_syco · 13-09-2016 5:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Since DS9 has been added to Netflix

Oh? Must check this out. Have seen 80% of the episodes, but some I would have missed. Think my interest waned near the end, especially when Jadzia Dax got a new host.

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 5:49pm

Myrddin wrote: »

You've lost me How do you mean?

I mean that at best st is loosely internally consistent when it comes to things that are and aren't possible.

Jadzia outliving Dax, I dont think it would be too much of a stretch to write in some mcguffin to make that possible.

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 10:30pm

How did Odo get infected with the bioweapon?

helimachoptor · 13-09-2016 10:32pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

How did Odo get infected with the bioweapon?

Section 31

Indricotherium · 13-09-2016 10:52pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

Section 31

But how, and when?

Also, just watching "when it rains" , and Garak straight up admits that he was in the obsidian order to a gang of randomer Cardassians and no one bats an eyelid.

Evade · 13-09-2016 10:56pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

But how, and when?

I think it was at a medical exam during Homefront / Paradise Lost but not shown on screen.

the_syco · 14-09-2016 5:03am

Ohhhh... square boxiness and 90's graphics

Indricotherium · 14-09-2016 9:33am

Watched When it rains last night and fell asleep during the episode after it so notes are a bit sketchy.

Good episode. Shtealing the Breen weapon, Bashir and O'Brien make a plan. CAssidy burns some peppers. Worf duels and kills Gowran. Damar makes a big decision.

Notes:

Sisko definitely nudges Worf to do something about Gowran, and he knows what that means.

In the end Gowran is undone because he politicked during war, but Worfs charge of cowardice is weak I feel. In Fairness to Gowran, despite not being regarded a great warrior, he doesn't hesitate for a moment when challenged, and backs himself totally against Worf. It's worth noting that had Worfs sword broken and fallen anywhere else he would have lost the fight.

Epic scene where a Cardassian guard recognises Damar, slightly over played, but still great.

Interesting scene where Odo is pushed on what he thought was happening to Bajorans he arrested during the occupation is cut short. It's shocking that Odo never seems to get any grief for being a collaborator. I know he was basically decent to people, but he was still a collaborator. He must have blood on his hands.

Why do the Breen not press the advantage and really attack Earth. They don't seem to have any qualms about involving civilians in the war, or have any great difficulty dealing with Federation defences.

"Even my people never attacked Earth" - Martok, You'd have to wonder why, given that it is generally defended by one ship that has a vital part missing.

Epic Scene with Garak emerging from the shadows with a gun, having watched Kira and Rusot.

helimachoptor · 14-09-2016 9:47am

I like Garaks speech at the end, cant remember it word for word but basically we're going to have to kill him

Kiith · 15-09-2016 7:50pm

I just watched Duet in season 1. Brilliant episode. Marritza / Gul Darhe'el was fantastic, really played his part well. Also gave some nice character development for Kira.

Deep Space Nine Runthrough

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