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72 Previous Convictions!!!

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    #92
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    Taken into consideration is not for owning up to crimes , TIC is about lazy judges not using consecutive sentencing. ten charges before a court usually results in one sentence for the most serious incident and the rest TIC to get them out of the courts list

    Glad youve improved your life tbh but gladder for your potential victims im sure you know the majority of people who were in your position never make it out

    Tic is not about lazy judiciary. It's about saving police time and resources by admitting offences they would otherwise have to investigate.


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    #93
    Lady is a tramp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭Lady is a tramp


    72 convictions, I can beat that, a good friend of mine has 93 convictions!!!

    I once asked him, of all the crimes he's ever committed, how many was he actually caught for. He reckoned around 3-5% of them.

    People change over time. He's 40 now, when I first met him and started getting to know him, he'd been clean and decent for a good long while. And he still is.

    I know his childhood traumas inside out and he'd the worst kind of upbringing. A mentally ill mother, no father (his mum doesn't even know who the dad is), spent most of his first ten years in care, was first put into juvenile detention at 12 years old, got addicted to heroin in there and was a full-blown addict by 15, and an alcoholic not so long afterwards. And has spent a lot of time in jail (as you can imagine!) over the years.

    I know of the nature of the crimes he was convicted for, he never physically or sexually hurt anyone. And he's the most fantastic father to his kids and grandchild.

    And you know what? Most of the above doesn't really matter. He is now who he is now. Funny. Motivated. Hard worker. Humble. Sociable. Loving. Offensive (in a hilarious way.) Happy. Loved by many. And his thoughts go so much deeper than you'd think with his (fairly brash) first impressions, but he's a very caring compassionate person.

    People can change. It happens all the time.


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    #94
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    FortySeven wrote: »
    All you are doing with this approach is making these people with health issues into hardened criminals. It is short sighted. Rehabilitation is cheaper and much more effective at cutting crime.

    Victims of criminals with multiple convictions will have a much different view of that that you .

    Do you think the fear or prospect of being locked up for a very long time would stop some one from committing a crime. Make it not worth the risk ? and for those that just dont care well the rest of us are a lot safer with people who think like that locked up no?


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    #95
    Chorcai
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 2,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chorcai


    what we need is a 3 strike Free Legal aid.


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    #96
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Tic is not about lazy judiciary. It's about saving police time and resources by admitting offences they would otherwise have to investigate.

    I would have though with your extensive experience of the criminal justice system you would know that TIC is only a matter for the judge and nothing to do with police.

    the police have to fully investigate every crime or alleged crime reported. Its a shorter and easier investigation if the criminal admits responsibility when first contacted by the police thats true.

    By the time a judge gets to hear about any incident all the police time or effort that was going to go into some thing has already been done .

    Its common that a person is before the courts on 10 or more charges and a judge will select the most serious and TIC the rest so he doesn't have to spend 20 min assigning punishments to each incident. Lazy judges


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    #97
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    Victims of criminals with multiple convictions will have a much different view of that that you .

    Do you think the fear or prospect of being locked up for a very long time would stop some one from committing a crime. Make it not worth the risk ? and for those that just dont care well the rest of us are a lot safer with people who think like that locked up no?

    I have probably been the victim of more crimes than those I have committed. Comes with the territory.

    Long sentences do not deter crime. Look to USA for proof.


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    #98
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    tomofson wrote: »
    You do realize someone can get multiple charges from one arrest and each of these charges the person pleads or is found guilty of is a separate conviction?

    I literally posted to make the same point. I got pulled by a dickhead garda one day and my car wasn't taxed. Lo and behold, 14 summonses arrived in the door. Including one for each of the 4 bald tyres (the tyres were perfect).
    So anyway all I got done for was the tax, but had the judge convicted me on all the summonses I would have 12 more convictions.


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    #99
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    I would have though with your extensive experience of the criminal justice system you would know that TIC is only a matter for the judge and nothing to do with police.

    the police have to fully investigate every crime or alleged crime reported. Its a shorter and easier investigation if the criminal admits responsibility when first contacted by the police thats true.

    By the time a judge gets to hear about any incident all the police time or effort that was going to go into some thing has already been done .

    Its common that a person is before the courts on 10 or more charges and a judge will select the most serious and TIC the rest so he doesn't have to spend 20 min assigning punishments to each incident. Lazy judges

    In my own experience I used the tic to ensure I was not going to end up with anything outstanding. I told the police, they asked the prosecutor to tic. Perhaps it is different here. My crimes were in Scotland.


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    #100
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Lady is a tramp wrote: »
    I know of the nature of the crimes he was convicted for, he never physically or sexually hurt anyone.

    Then his case isn't relevant to this debate. This is about people with violent tendencies who are allowed to return to the community which they have terrorised. That's the part that isn't right.

    To give you a prime example: The Kinahan gang and every single person who has played literally any part in their recent killing sprees, from the actual assassins to the lookouts and informers, should in my view spent the rest of their lives in jail. The Irish public deserves better than to have to put up with the presence of such scumbags in our cities and towns.


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    #101
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Only 73 ?


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    #102
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    One did, unfortunately it was The Loony Right Party (aka Renua), so nobody cared.


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    #103
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    73 is nothing, I know of a few with over a hundred in this locality and have never seen more than a few months inside.
    They are untouchable, and there is no deterrent to being a criminal in Ireland.


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    #104
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    We've had prisons since the dawn of time. They don't stop crime.


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    #105
    soups05
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    i have so much i wanna add to this debate but i can't. I was the victim of a gang of thugs who terrorised my family for years. As a result I suffered depression, anxiety and had my whole life fall apart. My children suffered in various way as well which i won't go into here.
    Ten years later and I see this scum in court on a regular basis, over and over they get a slap on the wrist and let off or get 3/4 years only to be out in months. They live a carefree life and do not care about how they hurt others.
    Many posters here called a life sentence too harsh etc. Apart from the fact that 3 strikes does not mean a life sentence, which has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, you fail to realise that the victims of these scum often serve a life sentence of their own.

    I lost my job, almost lost my home, and still suffer over these ......people.

    lock them all up, throw away the key, i for one would be glad.

    btw if a mod wants proof i can pm that just to show am not a keyboard warrior. far from it, am a scared,pathetic wretch who can barely go outside these days.


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    #106
    Damien M
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Damien M


    techdiver wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/cumminsj.html
    A 33-year-old man has been sentenced to ten years in prison for the manslaughter of a 21-year old-man in Waterford in November 2007.
    Robert Devine, of Wheatfields, Clonmel, Co Tipperary, pleaded not guilty to murder but guilty to the manslaughter of Joseph Cummins just before the trial was due to get underway last December.

    ....

    He has 72 previous convictions, including convictions for assault and for the possession of a knife.

    ....

    This is really gone beyond a joke at this stage. How can we let this type of scum walk the street with 72 previous convictions.:mad:

    In the US he would have been down for life a long time ago. We need a three strike rule introduced in Ireland.

    Have you written to the DPP asking why this guy was repeatedly (I assume) given suspended sentences, lenient sentences, freed to kill etc, have you asked the DPP to review the case and appeal the sentence. Have you written to the DPP and asked her to review the competency of the judges involved? Otherwise your rant is completely invalid, 'faux rage' as they say. Have you emailed or wrote to his defence team who got the charge downgraded, maybe email them ask them how they sleep at night and are their parents proud of them. That's the best course of action. As I doubt Ms Loftus or her staff would monitor boards.ie


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    #107
    Damien M
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Damien M


    Not sure how to reply with quotation marks, app is a bit dodgy, so my remarks are just last paragraph.


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    #108
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Odelay


    FortySeven wrote: »
    We've had prisons since the dawn of time. They don't stop crime.


    How about flogging? Would that discourage it?


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    #109
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    Odelay wrote: »
    How about flogging? Would that discourage it?

    I believe they had crime when hanging, drawing and quartering was all the rage.


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    #110
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    soups05 wrote: »
    i have so much i wanna add to this debate but i can't. I was the victim of a gang of thugs who terrorised my family for years. As a result I suffered depression, anxiety and had my whole life fall apart. My children suffered in various way as well which i won't go into here.
    Ten years later and I see this scum in court on a regular basis, over and over they get a slap on the wrist and let off or get 3/4 years only to be out in months. They live a carefree life and do not care about how they hurt others.
    Many posters here called a life sentence too harsh etc. Apart from the fact that 3 strikes does not mean a life sentence, which has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, you fail to realise that the victims of these scum often serve a life sentence of their own.

    I lost my job, almost lost my home, and still suffer over these ......people.

    lock them all up, throw away the key, i for one would be glad.

    btw if a mod wants proof i can pm that just to show am not a keyboard warrior. far from it, am a scared,pathetic wretch who can barely go outside these days.


    You are a better person than them at the end of the day.

    Hold your head high and believe in yourself.

    I know it's easy, for me to say this as a stranger on the internet. karma will get those people.


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    #111
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    FortySeven wrote: »
    I believe they had crime when hanging, drawing and quartering was all the rage.

    well like you said jail (in your opinion ) doesn't help ,


    make a suggestion that will protect the innocent from violent criminals ?


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    #112
    sunny2004
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭sunny2004


    Lady is a tramp wrote: »
    72 convictions, I can beat that, a good friend of mine has 93 convictions!!!

    I once asked him, of all the crimes he's ever committed, how many was he actually caught for. He reckoned around 3-5% of them.

    People change over time. He's 40 now, when I first met him and started getting to know him, he'd been clean and decent for a good long while. And he still is.

    I know his childhood traumas inside out and he'd the worst kind of upbringing. A mentally ill mother, no father (his mum doesn't even know who the dad is), spent most of his first ten years in care, was first put into juvenile detention at 12 years old, got addicted to heroin in there and was a full-blown addict by 15, and an alcoholic not so long afterwards. And has spent a lot of time in jail (as you can imagine!) over the years.

    I know of the nature of the crimes he was convicted for, he never physically or sexually hurt anyone. And he's the most fantastic father to his kids and grandchild.

    And you know what? Most of the above doesn't really matter. He is now who he is now. Funny. Motivated. Hard worker. Humble. Sociable. Loving. Offensive (in a hilarious way.) Happy. Loved by many. And his thoughts go so much deeper than you'd think with his (fairly brash) first impressions, but he's a very caring compassionate person.

    People can change. It happens all the time.

    and what about his victims ?


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    #113
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    soups05 wrote: »
    i have so much i wanna add to this debate but i can't. I was the victim of a gang of thugs who terrorised my family for years. As a result I suffered depression, anxiety and had my whole life fall apart. My children suffered in various way as well which i won't go into here.
    Ten years later and I see this scum in court on a regular basis, over and over they get a slap on the wrist and let off or get 3/4 years only to be out in months. They live a carefree life and do not care about how they hurt others.
    Many posters here called a life sentence too harsh etc. Apart from the fact that 3 strikes does not mean a life sentence, which has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, you fail to realise that the victims of these scum often serve a life sentence of their own.

    I lost my job, almost lost my home, and still suffer over these ......people.

    lock them all up, throw away the key, i for one would be glad.

    btw if a mod wants proof i can pm that just to show am not a keyboard warrior. far from it, am a scared,pathetic wretch who can barely go outside these days.

    Just when i'd given up on boards, every once in a while, a person comes along that understands the meaning of the words reality and truth. I salute you.
    You sir, are what I call one of life's few genuine hero's, and knows the truth and reality.
    A rare quality in Ireland.


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    #114
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    well like you said jail (in your opinion ) doesn't help ,


    make a suggestion that will protect the innocent from violent criminals ?

    Adobt the Norwegian prison regime. Less than 30% reoffending rate. Then adopt 3 strike rule for that 20 something percent.

    Give them a chance. Then jail the **** out of those who cannot change.


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    #115
    the dark phantom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    sunny2004 wrote: »
    and what about his victims ?

    There used to be lots of internet pages regarding his offenses on the Nationalist.ie but they all seem to be gone now.


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    #116
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    FortySeven wrote: »
    We've had prisons since the dawn of time. They don't stop crime.

    They don't, but would you not agree that to take my example, if everyone with even a remote connection to the recent Kinahan killing spree was permanently locked up, it would make inner city Dublin at the very least a slightly safer place?


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    #117
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Adobt the Norwegian prison regime. Less than 30% reoffending rate. Then adopt 3 strike rule for that 20 something percent.

    Give them a chance. Then jail the **** out of those who cannot change.

    yes i agree your sentiments but the pertinent question is at what point do you decide that they arent going to change. 10 or 20 conviction ? 50 ? 80 ? 100 ?


    Some people are just toxic and we should be protected from them and the only way to do that is isolate them from the rest .

    Jail in some shape or form


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    #118
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    FortySeven wrote: »
    We've had prisons since the dawn of time. They don't stop crime.

    But those that are locked up cannot commit crime while locked up.
    The crux of the problem is that prison is Not a deterrent in this country due to very lenient sentencing and the hand wringers appealling on behalf of scum.
    If there was a lot more prison space and much heftier prison terms then at least those who are repeat offenders would be off the streets for much longer periods of time.


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    #119
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Damien M wrote: »
    Have you written to the DPP asking why this guy was repeatedly (I assume) given suspended sentences, lenient sentences, freed to kill etc, have you asked the DPP to review the case and appeal the sentence. Have you written to the DPP and asked her to review the competency of the judges involved? Otherwise your rant is completely invalid, 'faux rage' as they say. Have you emailed or wrote to his defence team who got the charge downgraded, maybe email them ask them how they sleep at night and are their parents proud of them. That's the best course of action. As I doubt Ms Loftus or her staff would monitor boards.ie

    One of the problems we have in Ireland is that the DPP is totally unaccountable. That office holds a ridiculous amount of power over the criminal justice system, and yet is "totally independent" AKA answers to nobody and is overseen by nobody. That, in my view, is a massive problem. It should be up to the investigating Gardai to prosecute these f*ckers in my view.


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    #120
    soups05
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭soups05


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    Just when i'd given up on boards, every once in a while, a person comes along that understands the meaning of the words reality and truth. I salute you.
    You sir, are what I call one of life's few genuine hero's, and knows the truth and reality.
    A rare quality in Ireland.

    A hero? i bloody wish mate, not a damn thing I could do to protect my family from them. Daily I live with the shame of failure from that time. I know there was not much I could have done, but it does not help, not even a little.

    IMO even worse are the ones who come out saying things like " oh it's not their fault, it's society, they never had a chance" etc etc

    I should just leave it here, even typing this makes me miserable thinking back on it, but that's the thing, there is no escape from it.

    i know, i know, build a bridge and get over it lol


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    #121
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    soups05 wrote: »
    A hero? i bloody wish mate, not a damn thing I could do to protect my family from them. Daily I live with the shame of failure from that time. I know there was not much I could have done, but it does not help, not even a little.

    IMO even worse are the ones who come out saying things like " oh it's not their fault, it's society, they never had a chance" etc etc

    I should just leave it here, even typing this makes me miserable thinking back on it, but that's the thing, there is no escape from it.

    i know, i know, build a bridge and get over it lol

    See this is the kind of sh!te I'm talking about. Everyone goes on about how we have to give these f*ckers a fair chance, what about people like this poster who have been denied their happiness because some local f*ckers decided that they didn't have any right to it?

    The first priority should be protecting decent ordinary people.


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