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72 Previous Convictions!!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You have my answer above. These things need to be dealt with properly from the start. Thats usually petty crime way back in a persons life.

    Say that to the family of the deceased and see what happens to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Say that to the family of the deceased and see what happens to you.

    Retribution isn't justice. There of course needs to be a punishment aspect but the victims family is never going to be best placed to make an objective decision.

    You're still obfuscating the question I asked you though. Why import a broken system, why not import a working one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Retribution isn't justice. There of course needs to be a punishment aspect but the victims family is never going to be best placed to make an objective decision.

    You're still obfuscating the question I asked you though. Why import a broken system, why not import a working one?

    It's not broken.

    We have scumbags walking our streets with 50+ convictions - most psychotic undoubtedly.

    Your ideal is have them among us.

    They can not be helped - get it through your head. You are deluded.

    They should be locked up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    It's not broken.

    We have scumbags walking our streets with 50+ convictions - most psychotic undoubtedly.

    Your ideal is have them among us.

    They can not be helped - get it through your head. You are deluded.

    They should be locked up.

    Yeah yeah, don't answer the question posed -as you can't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    I would put money on it that the scumbag that murdered that woman in Limerick has loads of previous convictions as well.just put the ****ers in the ground and be done with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Yeah yeah, don't answer the question posed -as you can't.

    You are DELUDED.

    We should have the US system here and it would work. Not the death penalty (although I would argue we have candidates) but you'd clean our streets pretty quick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I would put money on it that the scumbag that murdered that woman in Limerick has loads of previous convictions as well.just put the ****ers in the ground and be done with it.

    It's disgusting that they prey on two types - the do gooders then the victims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    techdiver wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/cumminsj.html



    This is really gone beyond a joke at this stage. How can we let this type of scum walk the street with 72 previous convictions.:mad:

    In the US he would have been down for life a long time ago. We need a three strike rule introduced in Ireland.


    We had certain politicians organising crowds on the streets protesting over having to pay their way for a water service. Why can't they do the same about the way violent thugs can roam the country at will?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    We had certain politicians organising crowds on the streets protesting over having to pay their way for a water service. Why can't they do the same about the way violent thugs can roam the country at will?

    Where are Rich Boy Barrett and Ruth Coppinger?

    Oh sorry a proportion of their vote comes from there.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Sure they'll just keep at it and why should they stop such a lucrative career!

    Get away with it? Lots of reward! So few Garda stations now, you'll be in and out in no time!

    Get caught? No problem! Free legal aid, roll out the sob stories of tough childhood and you'll get away with a laughable sentence. Go for that high score of convictions!

    Going to prison? Noooooice! Free food, tv, activities. What's not to like! Meet some new for when you get out way too early.

    Reported thefts are dropping, probably due to the fact people know it's fuxking useless to do so.

    They have zero fear. It's close to a win-win for them. If the system doesn't change drastically, this will continue. Wouldn't be surprised to hear stories in the near future where a group of vigilantes find one of the persons responsible for beating an elderly person to death and go all Peaky ****ing Blinders on them.

    The government have a lot to answer for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Retribution isn't justice. There of course needs to be a punishment aspect but the victims family is never going to be best placed to make an objective decision.

    You're still obfuscating the question I asked you though. Why import a broken system, why not import a working one?

    I cases such as this, (multiple repeat convictions for assault violent disorder etc) prison, incarceration etc is not about (and the argument that it is is partially the cause of the mess we are in) rehabilitation, its not about retribution, its about protecting society.. Plain and simple.

    Somewhere along the line this got confused..

    In the absence of the death penalty the only viable solution is to keep them away from society, ie lock them up and throw away the key.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    You are DELUDED.

    We should have the US system here and it would work. Not the death penalty (although I would argue we have candidates) but you'd clean our streets pretty quick.

    No one should hold up the US prison system as a good example to follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    knipex wrote: »
    I cases such as this, (multiple repeat convictions for assault violent disorder etc) prison, incarceration etc is not about (and the argument that it is is partially the cause of the mess we are in) rehabilitation, its not about retribution, its about protecting society.. Plain and simple.

    Somewhere along the line this got confused..

    In the absence of the death penalty the only viable solution is to keep them away from society, ie lock them up and throw away the key.

    Not once in this thread have I suggested that people shouldn't be kept in for a long period of time, the issue is what you do with people during that time. Simply increasing sentences doesn't work - see US system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭quintana76


    Give him another chance. Remember 72 shallows doth not make a summer. Eh! It does actually. I think I am getting something wrong somewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭quintana76


    quintana76 wrote: »
    Give him another chance. Remember 72 shallows doth not make a summer. Eh! It does actually. I think I am getting something wrong somewhere.

    ...swallows. ****e predictive text.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,414 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Norwegian system seems to work. Sentences are low, but the focus is mostly on rehabilitation and if the prisoners don't demonstrate that they are rehabilitated, they can have their sentence extended indefinitely.

    Punishing prisoners might sooth your rage, but rehabilitating them is what makes the society safe.

    In Ireland you can be sent to prison, spend your entire time fighting and taking drugs, and then get released back onto the street in a worse state than when you went in. Its madness


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Not once in this thread have I suggested that people shouldn't be kept in for a long period of time, the issue is what you do with people during that time. Simply increasing sentences doesn't work - see US system.

    The US doesn't lock people up often enough or for long enough either.

    Three strikes should lead to indefinite imprisonment. If the sentence is indefinite, it doesn't really matter if someone is rehabilitated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,362 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Akrasia wrote: »
    The Norwegian system seems to work. Sentences are low, but the focus is mostly on rehabilitation and if the prisoners don't demonstrate that they are rehabilitated, they can have their sentence extended indefinitely.

    Punishing prisoners might sooth your rage, but rehabilitating them is what makes the society safe.

    In Ireland you can be sent to prison, spend your entire time fighting and taking drugs, and then get released back onto the street in a worse state than when you went in. Its madness

    you re probably wasting your ideas on such matters on this forum im afraid


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Not once in this thread have I suggested that people shouldn't be kept in for a long period of time, the issue is what you do with people during that time. Simply increasing sentences doesn't work - see US system.


    In cases of multiple repeat convictions they should never get out.

    They have shown they will not be rehabilitated and proven they are a risk and a danger to society. Any attempt to release them again is simply releasing an unacceptable, avoidable risk into society.

    Its not about punishment, at this point is no longer about rehabilitation its about protecting society..

    I would 100% agree that first offenders or even those with convictions for minor crimes should not be receiving long sentences and real attempt should be made at rehabilitation, they should be kept away from long term repeat offenders.

    Society should give them a chance and indeed I believe an obligation to do so but once that chance if thrown back in society's face then all obligations end..


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 replican


    The 10 years sentence didnt work same gent in custody again for alleged burgulary and aggrevated assault last december


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    You are DELUDED.

    We should have the US system here and it would work. Not the death penalty (although I would argue we have candidates) but you'd clean our streets pretty quick.

    I think our system here is pathetic, 50, 80, 100 convictions it's an absolute farce.
    But why do you think the US system would work here when it clearly doesn't work in the US? America is not some utopian paradise, there are vast areas you wouldn't dare walk the streets in!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    techdiver wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/cumminsj.html



    This is really gone beyond a joke at this stage. How can we let this type of scum walk the street with 72 previous convictions.:mad:

    In the US he would have been down for life a long time ago. We need a three strike rule introduced in Ireland.

    No he wouldn't. The law is an ass in the United States. The same way it is in most other countries.

    What makes the bail system in the United States better than anywhere else?

    An example of the U.S system. An alternative take.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/25/california-bail-system-tiffany-li-joseph-warren

    https://www.vox.com/2016/8/24/12415268/bail-jail-prison-innocent-crime

    If you look at the bureau of justice statistics (for the u.s) thre are lots of states for repeat offending.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    we just don't want to spend the money on the proper prison and correction system
    that requires treatment for offenders, some actual training for them in prison and then proper monitoring of them after release


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    A quick gawk at social media shows that this guy is out and about and being a proper ‘full time mad bastard’ again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I cant post the link but looks like Devine was brought in for an aggravated burglary in Dec. So much for rehabilitation. He was clearly released before the 10 ten years were up, so I can only assume that he goes back in for whats left of that sentence and what ever else is added (please dont tell me it is concurrent).

    So much for rehabilitation, since he wasnt rehabilitated can we assume that Norway would have locked him up for good?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Take from me, there is a very soft touch with criminals in this country. But you'll do the full term for not paying a TV licence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Take from me, there is a very soft touch with criminals in this country. But you'll do the full term for not paying a TV licence.

    No you won't. It's well known you will be back home the same day you were brought to the prison for not buying a TV licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,814 ✭✭✭harry Bailey esq


    pablo128 wrote: »
    No you won't. It's well known you will be back home the same day you were brought to the prison for not buying a TV licence.

    Spot on. Same with non payment of a fine. Bring you into the joy, bring you down to the B-base, give you a pint of milk and a chicken fillet roll, barely give you time to eat it and then send you on your merry way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    So much for rehabilitation, since he wasnt rehabilitated can we assume that Norway would have locked him up for good?

    Nope, but Norway also has recidivism, however it's lower as they do more rehabilitation in their prisons. It's not the only way to do it the Japanese have a harsh prison system that works for them, with shortish sentences though. Locking people up and throwing away the key isn't an option purely on cost grounds, that said I'm all for a prison system that keeps people in until they are risk assessed to no longer pose a threat.

    Sentencing should be taken out of the hands of Judges and handed over to the prison system itself. The way we approach sentencing is completely arseways and stuck in the 17th century. The crime committed should have little bearing on time served. Someone who shoplifts might need 3 years, someone who murders the rapist of their teenage daughter might need a few weeks - it's highly unlikely they'd find themselves in that situation again but some assessment needs to be carried out.

    It would never happen as it's simply too costly to do so.


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