Will the tech giants close buildings in the docks

Yellow_Fern · 02-08-2020 4:46pm

ronivek wrote: »

Not really. Flight times and time zones aren’t as attractive as Ireland. Plus your personal preference for Berlin or wherever being ‘much better’ doesn’t apply to everyone. In addition you’ll find many multinationals already have presences in those cities alongside Dublin; it’s not an either/or choice.

As for India it’s already a significant hub for many tech multinationals and will no doubt continue to grow; but I suspect not at the expense of US or EU hubs.

Ireland has some advantages that these alternatives dont have but not many. The cities I mentioned are objectively more attractive in terms of architecture, more nature, and better serviced with public transport. Some are also less crowded than Dublin too. Plus rental prices can be half that of Dublin. Yeap many of these companies are in these cities and its not a either choice. I am just making the point that Dublin doesnt have a huge competitive advantage.

02-08-2020 6:06pm

nthclare wrote: »

Shannon Commercial Properties are attractive and when the Greens get a hold of the potential of plane's flying into Shannon due to 3% less carbon emissions rather than landing in Dublin.
The Midwest will be the place to work.

Watch this space, you read it here...

But Shannon was only attractive when it was the closest airport to North America (along with Prestwick), and aircraft could reach there on the last gasp of fuel. Those days have gone.

Plus, if COVID-19 has taught us anything, it’s that business travel - “I have to go to San Francisco/LA/New York/Chicago (insert name of any North American city here) to meet Enrico Botticelli to discuss sales” - is so close to gone as to be unrealistic. The Greens won’t have to worry about international travel. They need to concentrate on getting their **** together, generally

touts · 02-08-2020 7:09pm

I've worked for some major multinationals and I can tell you nothing puts the wind up them like the analyst earnings call every qtr. As this recession limps on the analysts will go through the accounts with a fine comb and pick out anywhere they think there is waste. Next calls are set for the end of October.

Most likely it will play out something like this.

Thursday 29th October 2020 7pm-ish Irish time :
Analyst "Looking at the accounts you are paying X million a year on rent in Dublin Ireland. What is the occupancy rate of that building post Covid given you have said your staff can now work from home ongoing
CFO: I'll take that. As most of our staff are working from home so we are negotiating an exit from those leases and looking for more appropriate facilities.

Friday 30th October 2020 8:30am Dublin Property Market collapses.

JasonStatham · 02-08-2020 9:32pm

Cool.

greenfield21 · 02-08-2020 9:41pm

Well looking at the recent quarters earnings from Apple Facebook Amazon...etc. It's likely we see even more jobs and investment here from these MNCs, basically to keep revenue happy for all the corporate tax that will be coming through Ireland.

It's something like half of corporate tax take is by four companies. When are we ever going to see a downturn in these companies, until profits start falling I don't think we will ever see job looses...

Shefwedfan · 02-08-2020 10:34pm

touts wrote: »

I've worked for some major multinationals and I can tell you nothing puts the wind up them like the analyst earnings call every qtr. As this recession limps on the analysts will go through the accounts with a fine comb and pick out anywhere they think there is waste. Next calls are set for the end of October.

Most likely it will play out something like this.

Thursday 29th October 2020 7pm-ish Irish time :
Analyst "Looking at the accounts you are paying X million a year on rent in Dublin Ireland. What is the occupancy rate of that building post Covid given you have said your staff can now work from home ongoing
CFO: I'll take that. As most of our staff are working from home so we are negotiating an exit from those leases and looking for more appropriate facilities.

Friday 30th October 2020 8:30am Dublin Property Market collapses.

Yes because a million quid in Dublin rent is going to make a huge difference to a multi billion company

jetsonx · 02-08-2020 11:35pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes because a million quid in Dublin rent is going to make a huge difference to a multi billion company

Unfortunately, that's not they way they think.

Most of these multinationals can roll-out savage cost-cutting plans at the swipe of an iPad.

touts · 02-08-2020 11:59pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes because a million quid in Dublin rent is going to make a huge difference to a multi billion company

Nope. But the analysts want to see companies making cost savings wherever possible. It is usually things like inventory. The two weeks before the end of qtr accounts can often see companies delaying deliveries and cutting production all to get their inventory levels down. Thats usually a sign that sales for the qtr were ****.

Well this qtr we are likely to see pretty poor results. So companies are going to cut everything they can to be able to tell the analysts that they are proactive. A few million on an empty building in Dublin Docklands is what accountants call "low hanging fruit" when they are presenting options to the Board in the US.

RandomViewer · 03-08-2020 10:13am

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Working from home is a fad guys. You're just in a little bubble now and don't see it. Employers will want you back chained to your office as before soon enough. I know this is hard to believe, but your employer doesn't trust you to give 100% attention to your job at home. And they're right not to let's be honest, aren't you reading Boards.ie right now.

Demand for office space may actually increase due to social distancing requirements and the end of "hot desking". Or at the very least it'll stay the same as maybe 20% of people manage to get away with working from home. But those people will regret it - out of sight and out of mind and all that.

Social distancing will drop for the schools to go back, wont be an issue in two months

Eric Cartman · 03-08-2020 6:29pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Social distancing will drop for the schools to go back, wont be an issue in two months

this, they'll have to drop that for the schools, which is why the pubs won't be back this side of halloween.

RandomViewer · 03-08-2020 9:53pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

this, they'll have to drop that for the schools, which is why the pubs won't be back this side of halloween.

Wouldnt surprise me if they shut them all tomorrow evening, cabinet meeting and briefing, cant see them coming off holiday without some sort of new restrictions

joseywhales · 04-08-2020 10:26am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Ireland has some advantages that these alternatives dont have but not many. The cities I mentioned are objectively more attractive in terms of architecture, more nature, and better serviced with public transport. Some are also less crowded than Dublin too. Plus rental prices can be half that of Dublin. Yeap many of these companies are in these cities and its not a either choice. I am just making the point that Dublin doesnt have a huge competitive advantage.

I do not think India is an alternative, in terms of the standard of living, unless you like air pollution and extremely high population density, less security and not a liberating environment for women to work(given that's 50% of people!)

The level of English fluency is not stunning, the ordinary Indian can only put a few words together with poor grammar. The university educated have decent English but certainly not stunning and not in comparison to an Irish grad.

I like India and Indian people but I would not like to live there long term or raise a family there.

Might have an argument for Copenhagen,Berlin and Amsterdam.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 10:50am

the ordinary Indian can only put a few words together with poor grammar

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

joseywhales · 04-08-2020 10:59am

Cordell wrote: »

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

Dempo1 · 04-08-2020 11:00am

Interesting question, with more and more tech companies allowing staff to work from home, some saying forever, others at least till 2021, these trophy offices and the absorbant cost of running them is likely to be reviewed, I worked at a large plant in lexlip years ago and whilst slightly different scenario, I could see over the years the perks, food offerings etc diminishing. It's not just office space being maintained but some eye watering staff facilities too. I guess its down to whether it's cost benificial to maintain leases, buy them out etc or if owned would a glut of these offices coming onto market deflate prices. Either way I can not see companies sustaining these sites if staff can work from home

beauf · 04-08-2020 11:05am

joseywhales wrote: »

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

I think the point was more would Indians working in Ireland prefer to work from India if they could.

If they were Irish you say some would, and some wouldn't. Don't think it's any different for any one else. For many people home is not where they are from but where they choose to make home.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 11:06am

joseywhales wrote: »

So not the ordinary Indian then. India is fine as a hub but the argument seemed to be about the hub being attractive for international workforce to move to, India is not very attractive long term for europeans or americans to emigrate to.

No, it's not, it's anything but attractive, but not because of their lack of English. It's pretty much a 3rd world country outside of those secure gated estates where only those fortunate enough get to live in.

RugbyLad11 · 04-08-2020 11:46am

Man with broke phone wrote: »

SO annoying when computer people keep talking about talented staff etc. Alot of these places are pretty much call centres. I know of one that is mainly south americans working south american time and answeing a list of questions off a sheet of paper because my old company have a mainrenance contract on the building. Talented staff. Only talented fella in the building was the one fixing the air con.

lol these tech companies start IT grads on a minimum of 50k per year...do you think they would be paying them this much if they were not skilled?

RugbyLad11 · 04-08-2020 11:56am

arctictree wrote: »

Aren't most of Google ireland employees foreign? I'd say a lot of them have headed home and are enjoying Irish Tech salaries on a fraction of the rent....

I could be wrong but while most most companies are working from home most managers have asked their employees to stay in Ireland when WFH.

krissovo · 04-08-2020 12:24pm

Most of these Tech companies are planning on reducing campus seat count to 25% for the next year at least to observe social distancing. Most will also be implementing policies for wearing of masks when away from your desk in all areas including meeting rooms which are also under the same guidelines of reducing the capacity to 25%.

For example a 1000 seat campus will be a 250 seat campus. Meeting rooms are now nearly obsolete so most are planning flexible open areas for stand up huddles rather than old style meeting rooms. One is planning to use large bean bags for single occupancy in these new meeting areas and flexible screen walling to create an appropriate sized space.

Most have also sent out surveys about willingness to work from the office in the future. These are rough numbers put together by various crisis management teams running the campuses who are talking with each other. In Ireland that figure is quite high at 38%, continental Europe is 22% and the US is 18%. The high figure for Ireland was put down to immigrant employees who do not have much of social network outside the office. Where European offices are largely sales sites with low immigrant workers and in the US the campuses are located in high cost areas and employees would rather work from their home state.

greenfield21 · 04-08-2020 12:34pm

Ah here this thread is a load of nonsense, the likes of Facebook, apple,Google could buy up the whole of the docklands SDZ and it wouldnt cost them a thought. We all know the reason these companies are here and that far outweighs the costs of a few buildings, employees. The downturn will come eventually but that's likely many years away when profits start falling. Then will see reductions in buildings downsizing etc. Currently Big tech is riding the crest of a wave.

cintec · 04-08-2020 12:35pm

krissovo wrote: »

Most of these Tech companies are planning on reducing campus seat count to 25% for the next year at least to observe social distancing. Most will also be implementing policies for wearing of masks when away from your desk in all areas including meeting rooms which are also under the same guidelines of reducing the capacity to 25%.

For example a 1000 seat campus will be a 250 seat campus. Meeting rooms are now nearly obsolete so most are planning flexible open areas for stand up huddles rather than old style meeting rooms. One is planning to use large bean bags for single occupancy in these new meeting areas and flexible screen walling to create an appropriate sized space.

Most have also sent out surveys about willingness to work from the office in the future. These are rough numbers put together by various crisis management teams running the campuses who are talking with each other. In Ireland that figure is quite high at 38%, continental Europe is 22% and the US is 18%. The high figure for Ireland was put down to immigrant employees who do not have much of social network outside the office. Where European offices are largely sales sites with low immigrant workers and in the US the campuses are located in high cost areas and employees would rather work from their home state.

Our company polled the staff and less than 10% wanted to return under the current conditions.

Masks are also compulsory even at your desk.

Fritzbox · 04-08-2020 12:39pm

Cordell wrote: »

The ordinary Indian that matters for these tech companies will usually speak better English than their peers in non English speaking European countries, except maybe for Germany.

The level of English among professional people in many European countries can be quite high - not so high in other European countries.
What makes you think the level of spoken English in Germany is the best in Europe? Certainly there is a higher level English speaking ability to be found in neighbouring Netherlands and Denmark.

Ash.J.Williams · 04-08-2020 12:41pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The United states is preparing some serious financial incentives to try and lure them home while at the same time Europe is looking for every excuse to try and tax them.

One day those buildings might close up permanently

it's gonna take a lot more than money to get them home at this stage

RandomViewer · 04-08-2020 1:59pm

greenfield21 wrote: »

Ah here this thread is a load of nonsense, the likes of Facebook, apple,Google could buy up the whole of the docklands SDZ and it wouldnt cost them a thought. We all know the reason these companies are here and that far outweighs the costs of a few buildings, employees. The downturn will come eventually but that's likely many years away when profits start falling. Then will see reductions in buildings downsizing etc. Currently Big tech is riding the crest of a wave.

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

ronivek · 04-08-2020 2:07pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

I somehow doubt the massive multinationals are going to be basing decisions based on the surety of Trump's word; especially considering the election on the horizon.

Also I'm not even sure what 'need to be resident in the US' is supposed to mean in your post either. Are you trying to suggest he will make it so that no company can operate in the USA if it has any operations outside of the USA?

RandomViewer · 04-08-2020 2:14pm

ronivek wrote: »

I somehow doubt the massive multinationals are going to be basing decisions based on the surety of Trump's word; especially considering the election on the horizon.

Also I'm not even sure what 'need to be resident in the US' is supposed to mean in your post either. Are you trying to suggest he will make it so that no company can operate in the USA if it has any operations outside of the USA?

The man isn't rational, He sees American companies giving jobs in countries that could be done in America, whether by incentive or threats he will attempt to repatriate those jobs,
Biden is a terrible candidate, cant see anything stopping another Trump victory ,

hello2020 · 04-08-2020 2:27pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Trump is almost guaranteed a second term (!),if he insists that these companies need to be resident in the US to operate there it will be game over for the docklands

i think u r underestimating the lobbying power these big tech companies command in congress n senate

ED E · 04-08-2020 3:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless you're already living within the M50, i'd imagine the commute from your home to westmeath VS to dublin city centre are probably similar. At peak times it can take me 90+ minutes from Drogheda to the City Centre.

If i was going the opposite direction, in 90 minutes I'd cover a lot more ground.

If you build a big ass factory in Leitrim or Roscommon, and stick a Microsoft Logo on it, houses will start getting built, and the people working there will start spending in the town. If the jobs you are offering are in any way half decent, staff aren't going to care where the job is located, as if they're already commuting to Dublin City Centre then they're unlikely to be commuting for a much longer time, anyway.

If I worked in a decent Google job and was told they were opening a new office in the middle of nowhere, i'd have no issue in moving my job. The only people who'd fight it are those already living in dublin city.

Google don't want you. They want the Ruby expert from Warsaw, payments guru from the US. They won't work in Meath.

One of Amazon's tenants is frugality, they're taking over Burlington Rd which is €€€€€€€€ territory. Google have 5 or is it 6 buildings now. These aren't stupid firms. If you socialize with a few young tech workers you'll understand.

Also further than Meath is instantly ruled out due to airport proximity. HP are the only ones to breach that and they're a dumpster fire.

Cordell · 04-08-2020 4:44pm

Fritzbox wrote: »

The level of English among professional people in many European countries can be quite high - not so high in other European countries.
What makes you think the level of spoken English in Germany is the best in Europe? Certainly there is a higher level English speaking ability to be found in neighbouring Netherlands and Denmark.

I'm not trying to argue that, my point was that the indian tech workers have a level of English that is usually the same or better than other non native English speakers. In any case, we're past that and the reasons all tech companies aren't willing to relocate their Irish offices there.

Will the tech giants close buildings in the docks

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