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Rent increase without lease document

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  • 01-01-2015 5:06pm
    #1
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭


    Hey everyone, wondering if you could offer some advice, back around 2 months ago I got atext from the landlord saying he was increasing my rent from 800 to 950, now I forgot about that in the meantime and I put in the old amount of rent, so he comes looking to get the other 150. Now the problem is he has not given us a lease for the new amount, and in order for my housemates rent allowance to be increased she does need that. So I'm left paying the extra 150 on my own, which I can't afford so close to Christmas. Where do I stand considering I haven't signed a lease for the new amount?


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Comments

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    #2
    bisset
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭bisset


    You probably need advice from Threshold


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    #3
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    It would not be usual to receive a new lease every time there's a rent increase. A landlord is entitled to raise the rent in line with market rates once every twelve months. How long have you been living there? Is the new rent within the permissable threshold for rent allowance for your friend?


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    #4
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    He doesn't need a lease be he has to supply valid notice. Ignore him and continue paying the old rate. The clock only starts ticking when he delivers a letter with the new rate and with appropiate notice.

    Play dumb until he satisfies these conditions.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0022.html#sec22


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    #5
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    Beaner1 wrote: »
    He doesn't need a lease be he has to supply valid notice. Ignore him and continue paying the old rate. The clock only starts ticking when he delivers a letter with the new rate and with appropiate notice.

    Play dumb until he satisfies these conditions.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0022.html#sec22

    thank you, knowing I have some sort of legal standpoint helps a lot!


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    #6
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    It had already been discussed here that a text counts as notice.


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    #7
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    godtabh wrote: »
    It had already been discussed here that a text counts as notice.
    Does it? Where does it say that?


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    #8
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Meesared wrote: »
    Does it? Where does it say that?

    Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable


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    #9
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    You do realise if you play dumb as advised you could have to pay the new rent back dated .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #10
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Meesared wrote: »
    Does it? Where does it say that?

    Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable


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    #11
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    Stheno wrote: »
    Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

    Legislation disagrees so I will go with that. The PRTB is a Tribunal that follows legislation and does not follow case law.


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    #12
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Beaner1 wrote: »
    Legislation disagrees so I will go with that. The PRTB is a Tribunal that follows legislation and does not follow case law.

    Who also ruled that text was an acceptable for of notice


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    #13
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    Stheno wrote: »
    Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

    We'll theyre wrong and have been known to get it wrong at the deficision stage. An appeal would sort that out.


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    #14
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Op needs to either get the other house mate to pay there share or start looking for something or someone else who can
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #15
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    Have rents increased by 16% since youve rented? Very doubtful going by the PRTBs own data which would make this an above market increase.


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    #16
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    Gatling wrote: »
    Op needs to either get the other house mate to pay there share or start looking for something or someone else who can

    Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.


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    #17
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Meesared wrote: »
    Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.

    You've been told and you've been asked questions that you haven't answered. The main one being how long are you renting there and when was your last rent increase. These will impact the legal situation


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    #18
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Meesared wrote: »
    Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.

    You don't necessarily need a lease, tenants rights are covered under the RTA 2004.


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    #19
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,458 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Beaner1 wrote: »
    Have rents increased by 16% since youve rented? Very doubtful going by the PRTBs own data which would make this an above market increase.

    Nearly 19%


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    #20
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    athtrasna wrote: »
    You've been told and you've been asked questions that you haven't answered. The main one being how long are you renting there and when was your last rent increase. These will impact the legal situation

    I haven't been told categorically, there is differing opinions, anyway I'm here 3 years 3 months and my last rent increase was around a year ago


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    #21
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    vandriver wrote: »
    Nearly 19%

    You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.


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    #22
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Meesared wrote: »
    I haven't been told categorically, there is differing opinions, anyway I'm here 3 years 3 months and my last rent increase was around a year ago

    Have you a lease currently in place?


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    #23
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Beaner1 wrote: »
    You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.

    .... and you can watch your tone. Play nice or dont post.


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    #24
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Have you a lease currently in place?

    Yeah I signed one not that long ago


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    #25
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Meesared wrote: »
    Yeah I signed one not that long ago

    The drip feeding of vital information here is not helping.

    Has the lease been renewed on the anniversary of the initial one?
    Did the last rent increase happen when you signed a lease or in addition to a lease being put in place?
    When was the last rent increase? Be precise here please as it matters.


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    #26
    Greyian
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Greyian


    Beaner1 wrote: »
    You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.

    He was actually saying the rent was raised by nearly 19%

    150 increase on original 800 = 18.75% raise


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    #27
    Beaner1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Beaner1


    Greyian wrote: »
    He was actually saying the rent was raised by nearly 19%

    150 increase on original 800 = 18.75% raise

    Oh right, apologies. An outrageous 12 month increase then.


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    #28
    Meesared
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Meesared


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    The drip feeding of vital information here is not helping.

    Has the lease been renewed on the anniversary of the initial one?
    Did the last rent increase happen when you signed a lease or in addition to a lease being put in place?
    When was the last rent increase? Be precise here please as it matters.
    Sorry I'm trying my best, no the lease had expired for 6 months when I signed the most recent one in March. I honestly can't remember when the last increase was exactly though. When the rent increased last time. There was a new lease supplied.


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    #29
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Meesared wrote: »
    Sorry I'm trying my best, no the lease had expired for 6 months when I signed the most recent one in March. I honestly can't remember when the last increase was exactly though. When the rent increased last time. There was a new lease supplied.

    You really need to know the history here for your own sake. Was the last increase in March when you signed the new lease then?

    A few pointers for you.

    Legally you don't need a written lease.
    Legally the landlord is entitled to increase the rent once in every 12 month period with 28 days notice.
    He cannot increase it above market rent.

    If you can't tell us when the last increase was or the duration of your lease we can't answer your query.


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    #30
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    You really need to know the history here for your own sake. Was the last increase in March when you signed the new lease then?

    A few pointers for you.

    Legally you don't need a written lease.
    Legally the landlord is entitled to increase the rent once in every 12 month period with 28 days notice.
    He cannot increase it above market rent.

    If you can't tell us when the last increase was or the duration of your lease we can't answer your query.

    Is the notice period not dependent on how you have been renting.


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    #31
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Greenmachine wrote: »
    Is the notice period not dependent on how you have been renting.

    What do you mean 'how you have been renting'?

    The only notice stipulated for rent increases in legislation is 28 days. That is the minimum notice to be given.


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