Rent increase without lease document

Meesared · 01-01-2015 4:06pm #1

Hey everyone, wondering if you could offer some advice, back around 2 months ago I got atext from the landlord saying he was increasing my rent from 800 to 950, now I forgot about that in the meantime and I put in the old amount of rent, so he comes looking to get the other 150. Now the problem is he has not given us a lease for the new amount, and in order for my housemates rent allowance to be increased she does need that. So I'm left paying the extra 150 on my own, which I can't afford so close to Christmas. Where do I stand considering I haven't signed a lease for the new amount?

bisset · 01-01-2015 4:17pm

You probably need advice from Threshold

athtrasna · 01-01-2015 4:19pm

It would not be usual to receive a new lease every time there's a rent increase. A landlord is entitled to raise the rent in line with market rates once every twelve months. How long have you been living there? Is the new rent within the permissable threshold for rent allowance for your friend?

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 4:27pm

He doesn't need a lease be he has to supply valid notice. Ignore him and continue paying the old rate. The clock only starts ticking when he delivers a letter with the new rate and with appropiate notice.

Play dumb until he satisfies these conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0022.html#sec22

Meesared · 01-01-2015 5:00pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

He doesn't need a lease be he has to supply valid notice. Ignore him and continue paying the old rate. The clock only starts ticking when he delivers a letter with the new rate and with appropiate notice.

Play dumb until he satisfies these conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0022.html#sec22

thank you, knowing I have some sort of legal standpoint helps a lot!

godtabh · 01-01-2015 5:02pm

It had already been discussed here that a text counts as notice.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 5:13pm

godtabh wrote: »

It had already been discussed here that a text counts as notice.

Does it? Where does it say that?

Stheno · 01-01-2015 5:15pm

Meesared wrote: »

Does it? Where does it say that?

Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

Gatling · 01-01-2015 5:15pm

You do realise if you play dumb as advised you could have to pay the new rent back dated .

Stheno · 01-01-2015 5:16pm

Meesared wrote: »

Does it? Where does it say that?

Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 5:26pm

Stheno wrote: »

Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

Legislation disagrees so I will go with that. The PRTB is a Tribunal that follows legislation and does not follow case law.

godtabh · 01-01-2015 5:27pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

Legislation disagrees so I will go with that. The PRTB is a Tribunal that follows legislation and does not follow case law.

Who also ruled that text was an acceptable for of notice

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 5:35pm

Stheno wrote: »

Think the pervasive have ruled in the past that notice by text is acceptable

We'll theyre wrong and have been known to get it wrong at the deficision stage. An appeal would sort that out.

Gatling · 01-01-2015 5:37pm

Op needs to either get the other house mate to pay there share or start looking for something or someone else who can

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 5:41pm

Have rents increased by 16% since youve rented? Very doubtful going by the PRTBs own data which would make this an above market increase.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 5:44pm

Gatling wrote: »

Op needs to either get the other house mate to pay there share or start looking for something or someone else who can

Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.

athtrasna · 01-01-2015 5:46pm

Meesared wrote: »

Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.

You've been told and you've been asked questions that you haven't answered. The main one being how long are you renting there and when was your last rent increase. These will impact the legal situation

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 5:47pm

Meesared wrote: »

Now that's not the point, the point of this was to find out where I stand legally with regards to the lease.

You don't necessarily need a lease, tenants rights are covered under the RTA 2004.

vandriver · 01-01-2015 5:50pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

Have rents increased by 16% since youve rented? Very doubtful going by the PRTBs own data which would make this an above market increase.

Nearly 19%

Meesared · 01-01-2015 5:52pm

athtrasna wrote: »

You've been told and you've been asked questions that you haven't answered. The main one being how long are you renting there and when was your last rent increase. These will impact the legal situation

I haven't been told categorically, there is differing opinions, anyway I'm here 3 years 3 months and my last rent increase was around a year ago

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 5:53pm

vandriver wrote: »

Nearly 19%

You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 5:55pm

Meesared wrote: »

I haven't been told categorically, there is differing opinions, anyway I'm here 3 years 3 months and my last rent increase was around a year ago

Have you a lease currently in place?

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 5:56pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.

.... and you can watch your tone. Play nice or dont post.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 5:59pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Have you a lease currently in place?

Yeah I signed one not that long ago

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 6:03pm

Meesared wrote: »

Yeah I signed one not that long ago

The drip feeding of vital information here is not helping.

Has the lease been renewed on the anniversary of the initial one?
Did the last rent increase happen when you signed a lease or in addition to a lease being put in place?
When was the last rent increase? Be precise here please as it matters.

Greyian · 01-01-2015 6:03pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

You're not the op so you can drop the vested interest stats.

He was actually saying the rent was raised by nearly 19%

150 increase on original 800 = 18.75% raise

Beaner1 · 01-01-2015 6:05pm

Greyian wrote: »

He was actually saying the rent was raised by nearly 19%

150 increase on original 800 = 18.75% raise

Oh right, apologies. An outrageous 12 month increase then.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 6:34pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The drip feeding of vital information here is not helping.

Has the lease been renewed on the anniversary of the initial one?
Did the last rent increase happen when you signed a lease or in addition to a lease being put in place?
When was the last rent increase? Be precise here please as it matters.

Sorry I'm trying my best, no the lease had expired for 6 months when I signed the most recent one in March. I honestly can't remember when the last increase was exactly though. When the rent increased last time. There was a new lease supplied.

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 6:41pm

Meesared wrote: »

Sorry I'm trying my best, no the lease had expired for 6 months when I signed the most recent one in March. I honestly can't remember when the last increase was exactly though. When the rent increased last time. There was a new lease supplied.

You really need to know the history here for your own sake. Was the last increase in March when you signed the new lease then?

A few pointers for you.

Legally you don't need a written lease.
Legally the landlord is entitled to increase the rent once in every 12 month period with 28 days notice.
He cannot increase it above market rent.

If you can't tell us when the last increase was or the duration of your lease we can't answer your query.

Greenmachine · 01-01-2015 6:47pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

You really need to know the history here for your own sake. Was the last increase in March when you signed the new lease then?

A few pointers for you.

Legally you don't need a written lease.
Legally the landlord is entitled to increase the rent once in every 12 month period with 28 days notice.
He cannot increase it above market rent.

If you can't tell us when the last increase was or the duration of your lease we can't answer your query.

Is the notice period not dependent on how you have been renting.

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 6:49pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

Is the notice period not dependent on how you have been renting.

What do you mean 'how you have been renting'?

The only notice stipulated for rent increases in legislation is 28 days. That is the minimum notice to be given.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 7:02pm

Ok, so with a bit of digging I found my rent had increased last on 1 January 2014, I'm sorry if my information is a bit vague, It is a little bit difficult to find it sometimes!

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 7:05pm

Meesared wrote: »

Ok, so with a bit of digging I found my rent had increased last on 1 January 2014, I'm sorry if my information is a bit vague, It is a little bit difficult to find it sometimes!

So a year has passed and the landlord is now requesting another increase.

The lease being out of whack is a mystery, was the lease you signed last March backdated to Jan 2014 to cover the increase? When does the existing lease expire?

Meesared · 01-01-2015 7:07pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

So a year has passed and the landlord is now requesting another increase.

The lease being out of whack is a mystery, was the lease you signed last March backdated to Jan 2014 to cover the increase? When does the existing lease expire?

It was a 6 month lease, so it expired in September, it wasn't backdated though not overly sure why to be honest!.

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 7:08pm

Meesared wrote: »

It was a 6 month lease, so it expired in September, it wasn't backdated though not overly sure why to be honest!.

Right so you don't have a live lease?

Meesared · 01-01-2015 7:11pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Right so you don't have a live lease?

Yes, that is correct

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 7:12pm

Meesared wrote: »

Yes, that is correct

You do realise that when I asked that question before you said you signed one not long ago.

Right. Seeing as you don't have a current lease and it's been a year since your last increase the the landlord is allowed to increase your rent and you're not automatically entitled to a lease.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 7:26pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

You do realise that when I asked that question before you said you signed one not long ago.

Right. Seeing as you don't have a current lease and it's been a year since your last increase the the landlord is allowed to increase your rent and you're not automatically entitled to a lease.

Sorry I must have missed that.
But ok fair enough about the lease, now another point, is being informed by text message an acceptable form of notice?
Also what about the amount the rent has increased by, would it be counted as above market rates?

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 7:30pm

Meesared wrote: »

Sorry I must have missed that.
But ok fair enough about the lease, now another point, is being informed by text message an acceptable form of notice?
Also what about the amount the rent has increased by, would it be counted as above market rates?

Text messages have been deemed acceptable in the past.
No one here can comment on whether it's above market rent or not. Check out the rents in your area on daft.ie.

Meesared · 01-01-2015 7:36pm

Ok, thank you for your help!

ted1 · 01-01-2015 7:43pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

He doesn't need a lease be he has to supply valid notice. Ignore him and continue paying the old rate. The clock only starts ticking when he delivers a letter with the new rate and with appropiate notice.

Play dumb until he satisfies these conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0022.html#sec22

A text is considered written notice

Greenmachine · 01-01-2015 11:13pm

The_Morrigan wrote: »

What do you mean 'how you have been renting'?

The only notice stipulated for rent increases in legislation is 28 days. That is the minimum notice to be given.

Apoligies I should have asked "Was noticed period, based on how long, you have been renting"

Seems a little surprising that after more than three years the rent can be increased with a months notice. Leaves very little time to budget an extra €150 pm in this case.

The_Morrigan · 01-01-2015 11:45pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

Apoligies I should have asked "Was noticed period, based on how long, you have been renting"

Seems a little surprising that after more than three years the rent can be increased with a months notice. Leaves very little time to budget an extra €150 pm in this case.

Well a rent review can only be carried out once a year so tenants should prepare for it.
They can of course lodge a dispute with the PRTB if they feel it is above market rates for the area, this freezes the increase until a decision is made. Tenant will have to pay any difference from the initial date though if the prtb rule in favour of the landlord.
They can also try negotiate with the landlord to meet a middle ground or give notice to leave.

Greenmachine · 02-01-2015 12:18am

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Well a rent review can only be carried out once a year so tenants should prepare for it.
They can of course lodge a dispute with the PRTB if they feel it is above market rates for the area, this freezes the increase until a decision is made. Tenant will have to pay any difference from the initial date though if the prtb rule in favour of the landlord.
They can also try negotiate with the landlord to meet a middle ground or give notice to leave.

This much I know, but the notice period to vacate would be longer than the notice period of an increase.
I assumed they would be the same. I know differently.

Rent increase without lease document

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