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Corruption in charities

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12357…17

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    #122
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    mariaalice wrote: »
    They have a men and woman hostel I was only using it as an example.

    Morning star is the male , Regina Ceoli is the female, i think.


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    #123
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Mimon wrote: »
    You seem to be on the frontline so your salary is justified. No one should critisise you getting properly paid for difficult and dedicated service.

    What about admin, executives etc with inflated salaries? This is where charities fall down too often

    I dont think the various support staff are overpayed , all bring their own skillset , whether its IT ,HR , maintenance, management etc and so on and so justify their salary.


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    #124
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Someone has to arrange to pay the staff and manage the money, therefore, you need admin staff the frontline staff doesn't and cant exists in a vacuem.

    Yeh a certain amount of admin and executives needed but there seems to be too many of them on overinflated salaries in the majority of charities.


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    #125
    clytemnestra
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭clytemnestra


    There are now charities whose sole purpose is to help other charities get funding, by providing them with consultancy services, helping them with tenders and grant applications etc. These are also funded with public money.

    So your tax is going towards (a) the services provided by public services like health and education; (b) the 10,000 charities that also provide these services and (c,) the charities that help the other charities get more money. I'm sure there'll be a fourth level of this in a while..


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    #126
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Mimon wrote: »
    Yeh a certain amount of admin and executives needed but there seems to be too many of them on overinflated salaries in the majority of charities.

    What do you mean when you admin and executives ?


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    #127
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mimon wrote: »
    You seem to be on the frontline so your salary is justified. No one should critisise you getting properly paid for difficult and dedicated service.

    What about admin, executives etc with inflated salaries? This is where charities fall down too often

    What's wrong with "admin"? Charities need HR and finance and IT people, and CEO's, just like other organisations.


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    #128
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mimon wrote: »
    Yeh a certain amount of admin and executives needed but there seems to be too many of them on overinflated salaries in the majority of charities.

    Can you give some specifics here? Which charities are you talking about and how did you decide they are inflated? You know charities have to compete in the open market for professional staff, or do you think it should be some kind of vocation?


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    #129
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    clytemnestra wrote: »
    There are now charities whose sole purpose is to help other charities get funding, by providing them with consultancy services, helping them with tenders and grant applications etc. These are also funded with public money.

    So your tax is going towards (a) the services provided by public services like health and education; (b) the 10,000 charities that also provide these services and (c,) the charities that help the other charities get more money. I'm sure there'll be a fourth level of this in a while..

    You are misrepresenting the good work of The Wheel here.

    https://www.wheel.ie/about-us/funding-wheel


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    #130
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You are misrepresenting the good work of The Wheel here.

    https://www.wheel.ie/about-us/funding-wheel

    I think possibly the Community Foundation too.


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    #131
    clytemnestra
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭clytemnestra


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You are misrepresenting the good work of The Wheel here.

    https://www.wheel.ie/about-us/funding-wheel

    I am not. I know of smaller charities who employ half a dozen people or so and their work is providing consultancy services to other charities. It is another layer of fat on an already bloated monster.


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    #132
    dodzy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,920 ✭✭✭dodzy


    YellowLead wrote: »
    To be fair there are 100s if not 1000s of charities so proportion wise it’s only teeny percentages that have been scandalised caught.
    fixed that for you.


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    #133
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    clytemnestra wrote: »
    I am not. I know of smaller charities who employ half a dozen people or so and their work is providing consultancy services to other charities. It is another layer of fat on an already bloated monster.

    Which charities are these?


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    #134
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    dodzy wrote: »
    fixed that for you.

    Im sure you think the whole world is corrupt even though you most likely gladly take dole money from a government you no doubt bitch about and charity staff who pay taxes and pay said dole for you.


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    #135
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    You know its a good charity when there is a 2 minute television ad that requires you to donate just €4 per month by text but the text does not lead to a donation a representative will call you to set up your monthly payment

    :rolleyes:


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    #136
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Mimon wrote: »
    Wonder how the red cross works? Apparently 100% of donations will go to the where it should.

    Seems to be if not direct fraud a lot of the charities are run as much for the people working for the charity as the recipients of the charity. With overinflated salaries.

    You mean the organisation that raised hundreds of thousands for the Indian Ocean Tsunami only to put €162,960 of it into a bank account in Tipperary and it was still there a few years later?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/red-cross-says-sorry-for-163000-tsunami-cash-error-26754271.html

    Or perhaps the organisation that has recently enough been found out to have deducted on the QT more than €123,000 from donated funds as a “retrospective” administration charge ?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-red-cross-criticised-by-auditors-over-management-of-donated-funds-1.3874349

    Or perhaps the organisation that had threatened a whistleblower with legal action if he didn't keep quiet ?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/red-cross-whistleblower-disappointed-at-treatment-after-years-of-service-1.3768097


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    #137
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    dodzy wrote: »
    fixed that for you.

    I suppose all those multinational companies are corrupt too?

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/roscommon-woman-stole-from-company-social-club-to-pay-for-luxury-holidays-1051568.html

    The main difference is that they rarely wash their dirty linen in public.


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    #138
    dublin49
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Charities are populated by well intentioned amateurs or professional staff whose main focus is their own perks and renumerations.They are generally set up to supposely fill a gap that government bodies are neglecting and their main focus is nearly always fund raising.They prefer to have heart tugging missions to attract funds and all they achieve is allow the Government off the hook by sub contracting key services in an inefficent manner to the charity sector.All public money should be directed into properly run and regulated services and any public involvement with charities should be phased out.What came out about the goings on in the some major charities in recent years was disgraceful and I am not surprised donations are falling.


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    #139
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    dublin49 wrote: »
    Charities are populated by well intentioned amateurs or professional staff whose main focus is their own perks and renumerations.They are generally set up to supposely fill a gap that government bodies are neglecting and their main focus is nearly always fund raising.They prefer to have heart tugging missions to attract funds and all they achieve is allow the Government off the hook by sub contracting key services in an inefficent manner to the charity sector.All public money should be directed into properly run and regulated services and any public involvement with charities should be phased out.What came out about the goings on in the some major charities in recent years was disgraceful and I am not surprised donations are falling.

    No , my main focus as a professional is to do my best for each and every service user on my caseload. I dont get any perks and my salary pays my mortgage, bills and looks after my wife and kids.


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    #140
    Jakey Rolling
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    corner of hells wrote: »
    No , my main focus as a professional is to do my best for each and every service user on my caseload. I dont get any perks and my salary pays my mortgage, bills and looks after my wife and kids.


    So would it make any difference to you if your were salaried to do the same work viaa governement department, with payroll, admin etc all paid for through the public purse?

    I would much prefer that as a society we adequately funded essential services, and didn't have the need for a multiplicity of charities with associated administration costs to fill in the gaps.

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



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    #141
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    So would it make any difference to you if your were salaried to do the same work viaa governement department, with payroll, admin etc all paid for through the public purse?

    I would much prefer that as a society we adequately funded essential services, and didn't have the need for a multiplicity of charities with associated administration costs to fill in the gaps.

    Are you happy to pay all charity staff at public service rates, including pensions?

    The increased payroll costs will far outweigh any potential administration savings.


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    #142
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    clytemnestra wrote: »
    I am not. I know of smaller charities who employ half a dozen people or so and their work is providing consultancy services to other charities. It is another layer of fat on an already bloated monster.

    Its all very well giving out but what is your solution?


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    #143
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    So would it make any difference to you if your were salaried to do the same work viaa governement department, with payroll, admin etc all paid for through the public purse?

    I would much prefer that as a society we adequately funded essential services, and didn't have the need for a multiplicity of charities with associated administration costs to fill in the gaps.

    That would be great.

    But what would happen if someone saw a gap and wanted to fill it. Would you make that illegal? So that the only way to get the gap covering service is through the for-profit sector? Ie the rich can get it, everyone else can't.


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    #144
    joey100
    Registered Users Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭joey100


    I work in the youth sector where pretty much any youth service in Dublin is a registered charity, which starts to explain some of the reason for the large numbers. Very very few if any fund raise, they are allocated funding from the government. My job is then to check how this money is spent, what it was spent on and re-coup any unspent money, as well as looking at how they are working, when they are working, who they are working with and the impact of this work. I've had to take back anywhere from 600 euro to 25,000 euro after year end. The amount of regulation on these organisations is huge, they have to account for every penny. There are strict rules about how the money can be split between wages, overheads and face to face costs. This is checked monthly by accounts and then quarterly at face to face meetings. Wages are inline with public sector wages so they don't decide them themselves, directors are not paid and are a fully voluntary position with no expenses. They might get a cup of tea at their meetings.

    The administration costs are not large, most are handled centrally by ourselves, the payroll, finances, day to day management and some face to face work is provided by the managers of these youth projects. There are some organisations providing this service to a number of youth projects but this doesn't really result in any savings of money, maybe more in time.

    I would love and I'm sure the youth sector would love to be funded straight from the government. They have acknowledged for years that these services should exist but are happy to put them out there for charities to run. If they were to be provided by the government every youth worker and manager in Dublin would be a public servant and so eligible for the public service pension on top of their salary which would stay the same.

    This constant thing that because some charities have been found to be corrupt must mean all charities are is so off the mark. There are reasons beyond 'making cushy jobs for themselves' that there are lots of registered charities in Ireland. Not one charity I work with, and I work with a lot, has a paid position on the board of directors but if you took what people said in here as the truth everyone of them was on the take and making sure they were diverting all the money to themselves.


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    #145
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It like a lot of the giving out on Current Affairs? the concern seems legitimate to them from the outside but they do not have a full picture.

    I would have an issue with the PR side of some NGO trying to influence public policy or using PR as a vehicle to get more funding.

    I donate to charities at Christmas I always pick two usually the SVP is one, I know they are not perfect but I know someone would never have got to university without them as their father was an alcoholic and they had little or no family support.

    I also give to a homeless charity but not ones that advertise there are some that go under the radar and do great work.


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    #146
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,382 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It like a lot of the giving out on Current Affairs? the concern seems legitimate to them from the outside but they do not have a full picture.

    I would have an issue with the PR side of some NGO trying to influence public policy or using PR as a vehicle to get more funding.

    I donate to charities at Christmas I always pick two usually the SVP is one, I know they are not perfect but I know someone would never have got to university without them as their father was an alcoholic and they had little or no family support.

    I also give to a homeless charity but not ones that advertise there are some that go under the radar and do great work.

    If they don't influence policy, they don't get to stop the same problems reoccuring year after year.


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    #147
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,365 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    If they don't influence policy, they don't get to stop the same problems reoccuring year after year.

    But that is often not the aim, the aim is to get the charity into the media news cycle, now the media needs the NGO or charity as much as the NGO needs the media, or else you would not have the NGO's dance classes for the homeless or what even on the evening news.


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    #148
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Some research here on how best to donate to charity

    https://freedomsprout.com/where-is-your-money-going-charities/


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    #149
    dublin49
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    So would it make any difference to you if your were salaried to do the same work viaa governement department, with payroll, admin etc all paid for through the public purse?

    I would much prefer that as a society we adequately funded essential services, and didn't have the need for a multiplicity of charities with associated administration costs to fill in the gaps.

    well said


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    #150
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,224 ✭✭✭nc6000


    A positive to take from the pandemic is that I don't have people from these charities calling to the door anymore.


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    #151
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    jmayo wrote: »
    You mean the organisation that raised hundreds of thousands for the Indian Ocean Tsunami only to put €162,960 of it into a bank account in Tipperary and it was still there a few years later?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/red-cross-says-sorry-for-163000-tsunami-cash-error-26754271.html

    Actually did a collection for that, yer man sold it very well that every penny would go towards tsunami relief :mad:


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