Corruption in charities

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863503#Comment_117863503

That's one of these 'all politicians are corrupt' populist claims that it's very easy to make but very hard to prove. Name five charities where "the only major beneficiaries are the trustees/management of the charity". BTW, it is illegal for any charity trustee/director to be paid for their work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863708#Comment_117863708

And the many frauds in private sector businesses that Google will report are the tip of the iceberg. Normally, when something like this is discovered in a private business, it gets hushed up very quickly, to protect the business. Somebody 'resigns' suddenly, somebody's manager gets moved to a less attractive spot, the business swallows the loss and makes sure that clients don't hear about it.

With charities, in the present day, it gets reported - a tiny number of chases for the number of charities in existing - but we all throw our eyes up to heaven and say 'all charities blah blah blah....'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863919#Comment_117863919

Have you actually tried getting charitable status in the last five years? Have you seen the reporting requirements involved?

Does it baffle you why we have multiple butchers shops and multiple engineering contractors and multiple vets? To amalgamate them all would mean the end of empire building, surely?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864408#Comment_117864408

Keating is a twat, and I wasn't enamoured by that particular charity. I did have a good look at their annual report a few years back, and there was no sign that anyone was dipping their hand in the pot. In fact, it looked like senior people were working for very, very little.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117864897#Comment_117864897

Again, have you any idea of the mandatory reporting requirements and governance requirements for charities since the new regulator came into being?

dublin49

the Bothar con men were at it for 20 years,signing off bogus projects to beat any oversight.We don't do rigorous enforcement in this country so I expect the scandals to continue in this sector,

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865465#Comment_117865465

So no sign of you naming just of a few of the "lot of cases where the only major beneficiaries are the trustees/management of the charity" then?

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865489#Comment_117865489

CRC,BOTHAR,GOAL,PIETA HOUSE,REHAB,CONSOLE.

Richard Hillman

I think I read somewhere before that 35k per year gets spent on each homeless person. A lot of that money is getting zipped off somewhere.

There's also the well known stat that 5.5bn gets handed over from the government to charities and NGO's. Defund these for 2 years and Dublin has an underground railway or we could even host an Olympics. I'm not saying host an Olympics but that's the scale we're talking about.

Ireland has 10,000 charities. 1 charity for every 500 people.

This is greatest scam in our history. Perpetuated by media and meek politicians. Media are driving this. Trying to give profile to each one, knowing there could be future job potentials, politicians know there are jobs going too.

I guarantee tomorrow or Friday, something like The Journal will have a flashy new report by a charity/NGO to publicize. Backs all scratched, everyone mates, future job potentials ticked off.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863919#Comment_117863919

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117863919#Comment_117863919

There was duplicity in homeless services years ago when all that really existed was night shelters and drop in services .

Individual homeless services now provide a variety of services including different types of accommodation from One Night Only services up to Long Term Supported Housing, others provide different types of addiction support from residential stabilisation up to detox.

To give you an example , Sophia Housing provides Long Term Supported Housing but has no residential addiction treatment , MQI has residential addiction treatment but no LTSH.

There's accommodation provided specifically for individuals diagnosed as HIV , there's support for homeless ex defence members.

Homeless services are not all providing the same service .

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865718#Comment_117865718

Let's start getting rid of some of the charities , Dogs Trust annoys me , they can go first , ALONE annoys me too , feckin' old people, they can go too , your turn.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865869#Comment_117865869

If the public were supportive of their work, they would donate to them.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865625#Comment_117865625

How many people got counselling from Pieta House last year? How many people got fed by Goal? How many days of day service did CRC provide last year? How many days of training and employment did Rehab provide last year?

How's your "mainly for the benefit of trustees [unpaid] and management" to be measured?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865718#Comment_117865718

So you reckon we should cancel all the residential disability services that are funded through charities for a couple of years?

And all the mental health services funded through St John of God and Pieta?

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866029#Comment_117866029

I'm pretty sure Pieta house raise a lot of money themselves. Although a lot of questions have been put out about the running of the organisation in recent years. As for St John of God's, psychiatric care had aways generally been looked after through the health authorities.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866022#Comment_117866022

google will enlighten you on whether you want to support these charities ,personal choice.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866051#Comment_117866051

Both get funded through the 5.5 billion funding that you suggested that we should be cutting above. You did know what made up the 5.5 billion before you made the suggestion, didn't you? Try reading past the Grift headlines next time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866098#Comment_117866098

Absolutely, personal choice, that's how charity donations work. It was good of you to produce a list of those charities that have been through the mill and either got their act together or just shut down though. It's great to see confirmation that the new governance regulations are actually working.

Spanish Eyes

We as taxpayers contribute about 750 million per annum to International Aid. Heard some anecdotal stories about some of the NGO's funded by this. And yet we have appeal after appeal from the likes of Trocaire, Goal etc. for more donations despite our existing contribution. It would be good if the International Aid Fund had an in built contingency for natural disasters like in Haiti etc. But no, just gimme more, every single time.

I will no doubt be told that they all provide different services.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867242#Comment_117867242

Now , now , don't take it personal.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117867242#Comment_117867242

So just to be clear, you expect charities to start looking for charitable donations, because they make you feel a bit uncomfortable?

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869083#Comment_117869083

If you read my comment again, you will see that I said quite the opposite. The taxpayer funds International Aid just like in other countries that are part of the agreement. I have no issue with that. My point is that despite our existing contribution, charities like Goal, Trocaire are still hustling for money from us. Is the International Aid program not good enough, meaning certain charities want a piece of the action too. More duplication, same old, same old.

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117866437#Comment_117866437

Pieta House should not get any forced state funding. They should only rely on private and corporate donations. If the government wish to set up a Charity/NGO donation fund account where people can donate and it can be distributed to whoever lobbys the government best, then go ahead. Surely if people are happy with 5.5bn being handed over, we'll surely reach the 5.5bn. instead of whipping over €1,000 from each citizen every year.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869409#Comment_117869409

Pieta House gets state funding because the State knows well that official mental health services are totally under resourced, so they can get a fair bit of counselling provided on the cheap through Pieta and other organisations. Do you actually want to cut mental health services or do you want the State to fund proper mental health services at a higher cost - because they're your two options if you cut funding.

Your 'voluntary taxation' idea is intriguing though. Can we apply this to all state funding / taxation? So we each decide how much to give for transport and health and higher education, and the State has to make do with that amount? Or is it just things like disability services and mental health services that you want to cut?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117869308#Comment_117869308

Apologies, typo on my part. I meant to say "So just to be clear, you expect charities to stop looking for charitable donations, because they make you feel a bit uncomfortable?" Why would you think you get a say on them looking for donations? If you don't want to donate, then don't donate.

To answer your question literally, no the International Aid program is not good enough, if there people still dying for want of basic food and clean water. But hey, once your conscience doesn't feel any twinges, that's the important thing, right?

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773694#Comment_117773694

Seems he had a rather nasty private side to his life.

Preying on vulnerable people who came to him for help - but he rapes them.

Used charity taxi account to drive these people to his house where he attacked them

Wonder how many other victims are out there.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/late-charity-chief-allegedly-assaulted-men-for-whom-he-secured-housing-report-says-1.4682261

Atlantic Dawn

It's clear that the Charity Regulator isn't worth a flying fook, charities are continuing along with a complete lack of compliance to incredibly basic regulations.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931335#Comment_117931335

ho ho ,you've done it now,his agents will be in touch shortly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931298#Comment_117931298

That is very hard reading. People who were up in arms about private individuals running soup kitchens should read it. No doubt there are many good people who mean well, but there are some bad apples there too.

ahnowbrowncow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931335#Comment_117931335

In their defence, they told the Public Accounts Committee that they didn't have the resources to uncover corruption and fraud in Charities and were reliant on individuals raising concerns.

They have a budget of €4m and a staff of 37. With this they're supposed to oversee 10,370 charities that have 65,904 trustees, employs 189,900 and have over 300,000 volunteers.

It's not hard to see why there's so much corruption in charities when the probability of getting caught is extremely low. And even when you are caught, there's little to no penalty.

The Charity regulator received 686 concerns in 2018 and 649 in 2019, for 423 and 521 individual organisations respectively. In 2019 91% of these concerns related to 'financial controls and transparency', 'governance issues' or 'legitimacy of charity'

That's simply astounding, that means in one year, 5% of all charities in Ireland had concerns reported to the charity regulator.

That's before we mention the numerous national scandals relating to the charity sector.

And yet there are those in this thread insisting that there's nothing to see here and that there are only a few bad apples.

They either have their head in the sand or they have a vested interest in trying to portray charities in a positive light.

irish_goat

I worked in a bank for a few years and would have spent a lot of time analysing charity bank accounts and it's turned me off donating to charities unless I know where the money is going.

Big charities tended to have so many expenses, constant little amounts that would eat up the funds e.g. catering, flights, hotels. On the flipside there were smaller charities set up by people who, in my opinion, simply wanted to get themselves a guaranteed income as CEO. There's a serious amount of small charities set up with a view to sending money abroad to build schools, fund missionaries etc and barely anything ever gets sent. We actually had to file a report to the Charity Commission about one charity in particular which hadn't sent a penny abroad. The sad thing is you could see the direct debit donations coming in from the likes of old folks and churches who probably have no idea how little good their donation is actually doing.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865718#Comment_117865718

There should be maybe 5-10 charity licenses per each sector. There is no need for any more than that. Less money spent on multiple CEO's, multiple ad campaigns, multiples of staff.

mariaalice

The ig issue is the government using ngo and charities to provide services

maestroamado

I had a conversation with a good friend last week about Pieta House which his family are into... most of the people on ground level with Pieta, raising funds on walks etc are people who have had family/friend who took their own life... i know little of how it is funded...

I asked him if he every heard of an individual intervention that prevented suicide... the reply was people watch waters at night... I have heard of people getting councilling after an event but never heard of prevent apart from people saying how great they are.... I know of one unqualified eejit who called to a house a house offering advise after a berevement based on the fact that his famly had same experience some time before.

I am asking because this is what i see... i be more than happy if i am wrong...

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932460#Comment_117932460

agree totally,some like Console hide behind a good cause and employ friends and family on big salaries while releasing some funding for charitable endeavours to keep the money rolling in.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865847#Comment_117865847

Homeless charities are the best of them. Seriously.

Take one unnamed charity which house homeless people. That is so humane and nice of them only that they charge 60 quid a week for a bed in room shared with another person. Who also pays 60 a week. If they do not pay "the rent" off they go. Being homeless again.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932557#Comment_117932557

AFAIK Pieta won't deal with anyone that is actively suicidal.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932986#Comment_117932986

That's more or less what i thought... they turn up when the game is over and analyze the result to get ready for the next game...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931335#Comment_117931335

What specific charities and what specific basic regulations are you referring to please?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117933172#Comment_117933172

No, they provide counselling to people who aren't actively suicidal, huge amounts of counselling to large numbers of people. I actually don't like Pieta, but if you're going to have a go at them, please do so fairly, based on facts.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934242#Comment_117934242

What did i say was unfair? I am not having a go... i am saying what i see and am happy to be corrected... If the object is to help prevent suicide i expect they need to identify the people at risk and try to help... from the info you provide it seems what i said pretty well correct....

Darc19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932208#Comment_117932208

The problem is there's a catch all "charity" designation.

Most schools are charities, most churches are charities, there are benevolent funds that are charities, hospitals are charities, almost all disability services are charities.

There needs to be a totally new structure and all called "NFP's" (not for profits)

So you have Education NFP, Medical NFP, Disability NFP, Benevolent Fund NFP etc

Then you have "Community Charity NFP" and "National Charity NFP" to cover what many people would call "charities" and the Community Charity NFP would cover charities with admin expenditure under €100,000 and annual income under €250,000 and anything above these levels are listed as National and have a higher level of reporting

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934571#Comment_117934571

You can add gaa clubs, golf clubs etc etc... the list is available online... i think expenditure should be capped for MD etc as there needs be dome permanent staff.

I also think there should he a %% limit on spending in relation to revenue...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934527#Comment_117934527

Your criticism of Pieta for not dealing with actively suicidal people is unfair. It is beyond their skills. You need consultant psychiatrists and support teams, not psychologists and counselors. It's a totally different league. It's a bit like criticising the Red Cross on the sideline of your local GAA match for not doing open heart surgery. It's just silly.

They do what they do. I'm not a fan of theirs, because of how they pay (or don't pay) their staff, their religious background. I'm not a fan of the HSE paying Pieta to provide counselling instead of employing professional staff at proper rates to provide a professional service.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934571#Comment_117934571

How exactly would this complicated and confusing new structure help anything?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934592#Comment_117934592

What kind of cap would have that applies to organisations with hundreds, if not thousands of staff providing professional, regulated, medical services as well as applying to your local Tidy Town committee? What kind of % limit of spending were you thinking of? What should they do with the % of revenue that they don't spend?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934948#Comment_117934948

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934956#Comment_117934956

You need to start reading what i am saying as i said from the outset i do not know what they do except "darkness to light" funding exercise, i did refer to a conversation with a friend and our different views...

I agree with you totally this job is for professionals and the HSE have the duty here instead of what you say is happening....

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117934956#Comment_117934956

Your comment is too loose for reply... have you an example...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935149#Comment_117935149

You said "i think expenditure should be capped for MD etc as there needs be dome permanent staff". Charities vary greatly, from entirely volunteer organisations like some of thecCat rescue and rehoming groups, to professional medical organisations like St John of God and Mater Foundation. What kind of salary cap would you propose that would be valid for organisations of such varying size.

You also said "I also think there should he a %% limit on spending in relation to revenue", so I'm wondering what % of limit you had in mind.

And what do you think they should be doing with the remainder of their revenue that comes over the % limit you are proposing?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935138#Comment_117935138

If you don't know what they do, maybe a comment like "they turn up when the game is over and analyze the result to get ready for the next game" is just a tad unfair?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935286#Comment_117935286

I looked at their web-page before i wrote that and it said they were involved in preventing suicide ... you told me that they do not intervene on personal level...

What do you think is unfair if its what is happening...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935285#Comment_117935285

Give an example of what kindof organization you want to talk about... too many variations to give general answer...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935369#Comment_117935369

No, I didn't tell you that they 'don't intervene on a personal level'. I told you that they don't deal with people who are actively suicidal, the most serious end of the spectrum. They're not an emergency service, rushing in on blue lights and sirens. They provide counselling at low cost or no cost to people with mental health difficulties, but not to people who are actively suicidal.

That's not 'turning up when the game is over'.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935398#Comment_117935398

I don't want to talk about any organisation to be honest. You made two proposals, one about capping MD salary and one about spending a % revenue. You didn't seem to bothered about the 'too many variations' when you came up with your proposals. I'm just asking you to explain your two proposals.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935409#Comment_117935409

The webpage talks about suicide not counselling which is where i got my info... either i read it wrong or its incorrect....

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935542#Comment_117935542

There's a difference between feeling suicidal and being actively suicidal.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117935983#Comment_117935983

I would expect these organizations should be able to identify this or let the people that can do this do so...

As i said at the outside i just had a conversation with a supporter of Pieta a couple of weeks ago and they said all they do.... For me most charities is about funds and what they do is a side show....