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Australian Response

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    #92
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    The other states have all used police or the army to guard the quarantine hotels. Victoria used a private firm. These are the results.


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    More than 1300 Australian Defence Force personnel will be deployed to Victoria and millions of masks released from a Federal Government stash, as the fight to contain the virus gathers pace and urgency.
    100 cluster outbreaks have been detected in Victoria, which authorities are working to track, trace and contain.
    There are fears the recent surge could move across the Victoria-NSW border.
    Already a cluster outbreak in a Sydney pub, with nine people infected and thousands forced into quarantine, has been linked to Melbourne.

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/adf-and-millions-of-face-masks-sent-into-coronavirus-hit-victoria/32de0f79-48da-482f-836a-f8dc1f935017
    One of the architects of Australia's response to HIV AIDS, Adjunct Professor Bill Bowtell at UNSW, says that elimination in Australia 'is not impossible to do.'

    "We're almost there. We can't keep going with this stop, start, rinse and repeat. It's very detrimental to public health, jobs, confidence in the Australian economy and society."
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/programs/mornings/should-we-learn-to-live-with-covid-19/12452598
    The explosion of new community transmissions in Victoria is a harsh reminder of the power and speed of COVID-19.

    The lockdown of Melbourne is the right response, and lays bare the uncertainty that comes with the nation's suppression strategy, which involves lifting restrictions while there are still active infections in the community. National cabinet should abandon the suppression strategy and instead explicitly aim for elimination.

    The nature of the virus has not changed. Given the chance, it will spread rapidly around Australia, as it has around the world. If our behaviour returns to pre-COVID normal while there are active cases in the community, outbreaks are inevitable.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-should-switch-course-and-try-to-eliminate-covid-19-20200708-p55a6a.html

    totally eliminating coronavirus from Australia is not a realistic goal until a vaccine has been rolled out, one of Australia's top doctors has said.
    Speaking to the Weekend Today show this morning, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Nick Coatsworth said eliminating COVID-19 would mean no cases for a minimum of four incubation periods of the virus – or at least eight weeks.
    "That is an unrealistic scenario when there is 12 billion cases and climbing around the world," he said.
    Prime Minister Scott Morrison has remained adamant that Australia will not pursuing an elimination strategy, instead using extensive testing, contract tracing and social distancing to locate and then suppress outbreaks.
    Dr Coatsworth backed this approach today, saying Australia was working to achieve "suppression to the point of elimination".
    This means Australians should expect to see ongoing small clusters moving forward.
    "What we are aiming for – and what we have achieved in seven out of eight jurisdictions – is suppression to the point of elimination, suppression to the point of absence of community transmission," he said.
    "That's the setting that we believe is the best balance between public health and getting society moving again."
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-elimination-not-realistic-before-vaccine-says-deputy-cmo/4aebc81b-db1a-45f2-86a9-54096a66c57f
    International travellers returning home will soon be charged up to $3,000 each for hotel quarantine in South Australia, ending free supervised isolation for those coming into the state.
    The policy follows a similar announcement by the NSW Government
    NSW has spent more than $50 million accommodating travellers
    "Up until this point, taxpayers have been footing the bill," Mr Marshall said.

    "The Prime Minister has said since March of this year — Australians overseas should get back.

    "He's given them plenty of time — there will now be a charge from Saturday onwards.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-13/covid-travellers-charged-to-pay-for-coronavirus-quarantine-in-sa/12450150


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    #94
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    This thread started 7 months and a week ago. In some ways this year flew by and in others it feels like three years since March


    Update on Melbourne:

    Strict lockdowns work and we need one as strict as this in Dublin, but - what's more - we need it enforced

    Absolutely fúck all chance of that happening of course. We'll get Guards at checkpoints waving you on and saying "careful now!" instead


    https://www.newstalk.com/news/melbourne-lockdown-lifted-no-new-coronavirus-cases-reported-1096123

    Australia's second-largest city will exit lockdown at midnight tomorrow after no new COVID-19 cases or deaths were recorded.

    Stay-at-home orders for Melbourne's 5 million people will end and all retail will be allowed to reopen.
    The easing comes after the city recorded zero deaths and no new cases for the first time since early June.


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    #95
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Strict lockdowns work
    No they most certainly do not.

    Do you think this so-called virus will decide (many seem to suggest that it is somehow sentient) that Victoria is now off-limits?


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    #96
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    No they most certainly do not.

    Do you think this so-called virus will decide (many seem to suggest that it is somehow sentient) that Victoria is now off-limits?
    The easing comes after the city recorded zero deaths and no new cases for the first time since early June


    We need extremely strict restrictions for parts of Ireland. Especially those areas with "socially economic trends" .... or PC speak for "skangers are ignoring the rules en mass"


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    #97
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    We need extremely strict restrictions for parts of Ireland. Especially those areas with "socially economic trends" .... or PC speak for "skangers are ignoring the rules en mass"
    What Ireland needs is no restrictions and an end to this tyrannical response and the prosecution of those who have enacted these restrictions (with extreme prejudice).


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    #98
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    So Brisbane found one case of the UK strain, and have locked the city down for the weekend.
    They've had it pretty good, even compared to other states, so I can understand why they don't want to risk losing that.
    It must be so demoralising being in lockdown, and watching cases rise regardless, in other countries.


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    #99
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    derfderf wrote: »
    So Brisbane found one case of the UK strain, and have locked the city down for the weekend.
    They've had it pretty good, even compared to other states, so I can understand why they don't want to risk losing that.
    It must be so demoralising being in lockdown, and watching cases rise regardless, in other countries.
    No. What would be demoralising would be being in lockdown and watching cases rise anyway in your own country.

    If you're in lockdown, and cases are rising in other countries but not in yours, that might suggest to you that your lockdown is successfully doing what it is supposed to do.


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    #100
    SpacialNeeds
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭SpacialNeeds


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No. What would be demoralising would be being in lockdown and watching cases rise anyway in your own country.

    If you're in lockdown, and cases are rising in other countries but not in yours, that might suggest to you that your lockdown is successfully doing what it is supposed to do.
    Hear hear.

    Maybe if we had done things properly, like Australia, with mandatory quarantine for people who have been abroad and a complete and enforced lockdown, we wouldn't be where we are now up shjt creek.


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    #101
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Honestly though, what is the longterm plan for australia? They are stopping even their own citizens from leaving or returning to the country (unless you're a celebrity). Covid is endemic in the rest of the world at this stage so they will never be able to reopen their borders like before without being inundated with cases. So I guess its great to live there if you don't have family abroad you want to see again or ever want to go on vacation. Its not even safe to travel outside any state within the country as the borders can be closed at anytime and you won't be allowed back to your home without paying thousands for quarantine, as happened over the new year. Will people put up with that long term?


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    #102
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Honestly though, what is the longterm plan for australia? They are stopping even their own citizens from leaving or returning to the country (unless you're a celebrity). Covid is endemic in the rest of the world at this stage so they will never be able to reopen their borders like before without being inundated with cases. So I guess its great to live there if you don't have family abroad you want to see again or ever want to go on vacation. Its not even safe to travel outside any state within the country as the borders can be closed at anytime and you won't be allowed back to your home without paying thousands for quarantine, as happened over the new year. Will people put up with that long term?
    They've put up with it for a year, and the evidence suggest that it is popular (because, presumably, it has worked pretty well).

    It can be relaxed once a mass vaccination programme has been largely completed (n.b. not when it is started). General impression is that people expect it to be largely in place for another 6 months anyway. Qantas is accepting international flight bookings departing Australia from 1 July onwards, for what that's worth.


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    #103
    Endintheclowns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Endintheclowns


    Fantastic approach as to how it should be handled.


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    #104
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Brisbane is in lockdown yes.. but at the moment its only for 3 days.

    Adelaide went into lockdown for 6 days in November but came out 3 days early as they didn't need the full 6. That was linked to the UK strain they were very concerned about then, obviously the Brits had tipped them off that the new strain was more contagious as far back as then.

    Same with Brisbane new variants really putting the frighteners on them.

    At least the vaccine plan came out yesterday and they plan to start mid February and by end of March have vaccinated 4 million so that's 20% of the country vaccinated in 6 weeks. At that rate they should have most of the country done by September bearing in mind they wont do kids for another 18 months.

    PM said that restrictions will last rest of the year.



    https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-vaccine-update-four-million-australians-by-end-march-scott-morrison/45f2fdba-66ca-4ea5-bea9-b0356c0b9e4c


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    #105
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No. What would be demoralising would be being in lockdown and watching cases rise anyway in your own country.

    If you're in lockdown, and cases are rising in other countries but not in yours, that might suggest to you that your lockdown is successfully doing what it is supposed to do.

    Exactly what I meant. I may have phrased it arseways. People are getting on board with the lockdown here because we've seen good results (all week i only saw two people in train stations without masks).
    In other countries the message seems to be "We're f*cked, but if we don't lock down we'll be even more f*cked."


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    #106
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    They've put up with it for a year, and the evidence suggest that it is popular (because, presumably, it has worked pretty well).

    It can be relaxed once a mass vaccination programme has been largely completed (n.b. not when it is started). General impression is that people expect it to be largely in place for another 6 months anyway. Qantas is accepting international flight bookings departing Australia from 1 July onwards, for what that's worth.

    I think in isolation it would be a big problem, but in comparison to what the closest countries culturely (UK,Ireland,America) are going through, it's a small price to pay.
    My folks are getting on in years, and I've only brought my son home once (in March), and that's hard. If I was home I'd constantly have to worry I was bringing the virus to them if I was visiting. There isn't much good happening for anyone, just varying degrees of bad.


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    #107
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    It’s been ruled that some of the measures in Melbourne breached human rights. People in a public housing block were forbidden to leave their homes for 14 days


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    #108
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    Gael23 wrote: »
    It’s been ruled that some of the measures in Melbourne breached human rights. People in a public housing block were forbidden to leave their homes for 14 days

    I remember that, they went hard in Melbourne. That outbreak was serious though. 1000 cases a day almost. It wasn't quite China levels though (block the door and see if you're alive in two weeks), they were looked after.


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    #109
    Northernlily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Honestly though, what is the longterm plan for australia? They are stopping even their own citizens from leaving or returning to the country (unless you're a celebrity). Covid is endemic in the rest of the world at this stage so they will never be able to reopen their borders like before without being inundated with cases. So I guess its great to live there if you don't have family abroad you want to see again or ever want to go on vacation. Its not even safe to travel outside any state within the country as the borders can be closed at anytime and you won't be allowed back to your home without paying thousands for quarantine, as happened over the new year. Will people put up with that long term?

    Are you sure? I've seen someone who has just returned to Oz after 3 months visiting home here and she is working away in the quarantine hotel.


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    #110
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    boldrevolt wrote: »
    and here we see a Sovcit woman in Melbourne getting arrested in her home for organising an anti-lockdown event on Facebook.

    9gag (dot) com/gag/arMpBZV

    But they're not in lockdown? They had a lockdown, it worked, and now they just need to use common sense.


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    #111
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Northernlily wrote: »
    Are you sure? I've seen someone who has just returned to Oz after 3 months visiting home here and she is working away in the quarantine hotel.

    According to this there are over 29,000 people waiting to get back

    https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/waiting-list-for-australians-stuck-overseas-passes-29-000-20201013-p564ks
    DFAT told The Australian Financial Review that about three-quarters of the 38,200 Australians registered with the federal government as being overseas have expressed a desire to return.

    Australians are facing long delays to secure places on flights to the country, with the clogged hotel quarantine system slowing down returns. National cabinet agreed to lift the arrival cap to 6000 a month in September, when there were 24,000 people waiting to return.

    Long-term residents and skilled workers are being denied permission to return as the government prioritises citizens and permanent residents.

    Chris Farrell, a chef at restaurant Three Blue Ducks, has lived in Australia for six years but returned to the UK in July after his mother was hospitalised with terminal breast cancer.

    She died last month, and Mr Farrell's application to return home, to work and be with his Australian partner, has been repeatedly rejected.

    And also
    If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:

    your travel is as part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including the provision of aid
    your travel is for your business/employer
    you are travelling to receive urgent medical treatment that is not available in Australia
    you are travelling outside Australia for a compelling reason for three months or longer
    you are travelling on compassionate or humanitarian grounds
    your travel is in the national interest.
    You must provide evidence to support your claims. Requests may be finalised without further consideration if insufficient evidence is provided.


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    #112
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    According to this there are over 29,000 people waiting to get back

    https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/waiting-list-for-australians-stuck-overseas-passes-29-000-20201013-p564ks



    And also

    I was listening to some people on the radio the other day talking about the difficulty getting back and then having to do the two weeks quarantine, they said it was the most anxious times of their lives but it’s worth keeping it in place if it safe guards their chance of a normal life for the foreseeable future.

    However one said if at the time in March they imagined this pandemic had went on any longer than 6 months they would have returned earlier, hindsight great thing.


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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    They have had approx 30k waiting to come home the whole time. More get continually added while the government also continues to grant permanent residency visas to off shore applicants giving them a right to 'return'.
    The Australian Open will start at Melbourne Park on February 8 and run until February 21.

    The first of 15 charter flights bringing roughly 1,200 players, support staff and tennis officials will arrive in Melbourne on Thursday evening, Victorian Police and Emergency Services Minister Lisa Neville said.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/how-victoria-covid-quarantine-australian-open-tennis-will-work/13051188


    The Indian Cricket team is over at the moment player, there have been international horse races held here and all sorts (actors and stunt doubles flying in and out https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-07/liam-neeson-film-blacklight-comes-to-canberra-for-car-chase/13038184). Not sure its worth all the risk. Maybe not now with the UK strain which has spread rapidly in one of the quarantine hotels in Brisbane.


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8604-gallup-international-survey-covid-19-opinion-questions-november-2020-202012211153

    Large majorities of Australians in all States, both genders and across all age groups agree travel restrictions between countries are acceptable in order to fight against the spread of Coronavirus. Agreement is highest for people aged 50-64 (93%) or 25-34 (93%) and in South Australia (96%) and New South Wales (93%). In addition, 91% of both men and women agree that travel restrictions between countries are acceptable.


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    #115
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They have had approx 30k waiting to come home the whole time. More get continually added while the government also continues to grant permanent residency visas to off shore applicants giving them a right to 'return'.
    Few such visas are being granted at the moment. If you're outside Australia when your permanent resident visa is granted it will typically stipulate a "first entry date" and a "do not enter after date". You must enter between these two dates and, precisely because of the obstacles to entering Australia, not many people want to put themselves in that situation.

    The fact that numbers seeking to return remain high is mostly not down to the grant of new permanent resident visas, but to citizens and the holders of existing permanent resident visas who previously did not indicate a wish to return now indicating that they do.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-12/how-victoria-covid-quarantine-australian-open-tennis-will-work/13051188


    The Indian Cricket team is over at the moment player, there have been international horse races held here and all sorts (actors and stunt doubles flying in and out https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-07/liam-neeson-film-blacklight-comes-to-canberra-for-car-chase/13038184). Not sure its worth all the risk. Maybe not now with the UK strain which has spread rapidly in one of the quarantine hotels in Brisbane.
    I agree; the willingness of the Australian public to tolerate what is obviously special treatment for sportspeople and entertainers is striking. But the fact is that they don't just tolerate it; they seem to want it. In general people seem very keen to ensure that representative sporting fixtures can go ahead as much as possible.


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    #116
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,098 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8604-gallup-international-survey-covid-19-opinion-questions-november-2020-202012211153

    The travel restrictions, in particular incoming quarantine have been hugely successful.
    When there is cases, they on on top of it very quickly.

    People accepted lockdown pretty quickly. They did the right thing. Stayed at home, and adopted WFH across the board.
    Interstate travel in been on and off.
    Cafes, restaurants and pubs have been reopened for months.
    Contact tracing here in australia is many time better than europe/Ireland.
    Sign into a venue. Everyone. If somebody picks it up, they know exactly who was with them in what venue at what time.
    They are testing the waste water system, if covid is detected they they hace an idea of the areas it came from. And can increase testing in those areas.

    Honestly, all of these measure are pretty much the reason life has been relatively normal in large parts australia for months, except for a few short state specific lockdowns.


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    #117
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Mellor wrote: »
    The travel restrictions, in particular incoming quarantine have been hugely successful.
    When there is cases, they on on top of it very quickly.

    People accepted lockdown pretty quickly. They did the right thing. Stayed at home, and adopted WFH across the board.
    Interstate travel in been on and off.
    Cafes, restaurants and pubs have been reopened for months.
    Contact tracing here in australia is many time better than europe/Ireland.
    Sign into a venue. Everyone. If somebody picks it up, they know exactly who was with them in what venue at what time.
    They are testing the waste water system, if covid is detected they they hace an idea of the areas it came from. And can increase testing in those areas.

    Honestly, all of these measure are pretty much the reason life has been relatively normal in large parts australia for months, except for a few short state specific lockdowns.

    All good points Mellor

    QR code’s and NSW are great tool, I been got the car serviced today checked in and out Toyota, went to Hornsby Westfield shops checked in and out...got lunch at a pub checked in and out .....Got new tyres at Bridgestone same checked in there too. Everyone else is doing it too, great buy-in because they can see the results.


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    #118
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,098 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It also cuts the “unknown” worry out.

    You might hear a postivive case from Avalon had dinner in Surry Hills at the weekend. People who also were out to dinner, thousands and thousands of them, would automatically worry.

    Except straight away they can say he was in whatever restaurant, at whatever day and time.
    Those not exposed don’t need worry.
    They maybe exposed know to go get tested with urgency.


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    #119
    derfderf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭derfderf


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    I was listening to some people on the radio the other day talking about the difficulty getting back and then having to do the two weeks quarantine, they said it was the most anxious times of their lives but it’s worth keeping it in place if it safe guards their chance of a normal life for the foreseeable future.

    However one said if at the time in March they imagined this pandemic had went on any longer than 6 months they would have returned earlier, hindsight great thing.

    I landed in Ireland at the start of March for a month. About two weeks in Australia closed the border to anyone that wasn't a citizen or permanent resident. I booked a new flight back a week and a half early. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't bank breaking either.
    The second leg of my original flight was canceled. I don't know what would have happened if i had waited. I got back just as home isolation started, but long before people were being put in hotels.

    There were no caps on numbers then though. Anyone that didn't bother trying to get back only has themselves to blame.


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    #120
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    The Aussies are able to pretty much live their lives in a much better waybthan we can right now precisely because of their aggressive approach.

    Brisbane had one case and locked down for 3 days... that's how it should be done.
    We're living some kind of half-life here and we still don't quarantine


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    #121
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,133 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    To be fair, Australia has characteristics in terms of remoteness and limited entry points to the country that Ireland doesn't have. Australia can close down its international border, and even its domestic borders, in ways that are simply impossible for Ireland (or for any European country). So while the Australian commitment to early and vigorous action may have lessons for us, the actual measures that work for Australia would produce the same result in Ireland.


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