Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]

pah · 16-02-2020 12:42pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

would be nice to see the old man get reguarly laid!

Said nobody, ever [except said old man I suppose]

Xertz · 17-02-2020 6:38pm

To be honest, I kinda like Picard as he is. We don't know much about his love life and it doesn't really matter. All we know is he likes archaeology and isn't much of a wine maker but we don't really get into his personal life in a big way and there's nothing wrong with that. It's sort of part of the mystique of the character.

Maybe he just wasn't the marrying type or didn't get around to it, what with the battles with the Borg and all of that.

tjdaly · 17-02-2020 9:22pm

Very, very, surprised that people are complaining about the pacing on this. I think they have it pitch perfect. A patient, thoughtful start which will set the scene for the rip roaring adventure in store for us. If they'd gotten him hurtling through space at light speed on the first episode it would have ridiculous. The dude is old, and he is barely able for combat sports, a single kick to the chest would break his ribs, he has also gone a bit doddery, that is all part of the charm. Things will pick up. Really enjoying this so far.

Greyjoy · 18-02-2020 12:43pm

It's not a lack of action that's hurting the show it's a lack of progression. We're nearly halfway through the season and even though there's been plenty of plot there's very little actual advancement in the overall story. Too much of the series so far has been taken up with flashbacks of scenes that could have been dealt with in two or three lines of dialogue.

EltonJohn69 · 20-02-2020 1:13pm

Patrick Stewart looks and sounds about twenty years younger in the new Charlie’s Angels #UnleashJeanLuc

20-02-2020 7:00pm

Rawr wrote: »

That said, Voyager was a TNG era show and it routinely pisses me off. There are some really good episodes, there are also plenty of horribly done stories that were sometimes just the re-heated leftovers of TNG episodes. Both Discovery and Voyager pissed away what potential they had as Trek shows, and that annoys me more than smaller cannon /design issues.

Picard still has loads of potential, which I hope it will live up to...but there is as much chance of them somehow screwing it up....and then alas it'll be the new Voyager in my head. Even Seven of Nine is in there somehow.....I hope that's not an omen

A friend leant me a tape of VOY. To tell you how along this was it was a VHS tape of two voyager episodes. One was an excellent episode involving time travel. The second ep: The Adventures of Flotter. A hologram program runs amok. Woeful stuff.

Every time voyager took a step forward, it seemed to take two steps back.

pah · 23-02-2020 12:13pm

FatBallerina · 23-02-2020 1:57pm

I've just binge watched Picard and thoroughly enjoyed it. Slow moving at first, took me 2 episodes to really get into it. Happy to see The Borg being so involved, they were my favourite villains. Seven was my favourite character on Voyager and I quite like this bad ass version of her. Good to see oldies making a comeback.

Xertz · 23-02-2020 2:32pm

The pace has definitely become more watchable.

25-02-2020 12:26am

Not crazy about Patrick Stewart in this. He doesn't hold the same booming presence he once had. He's getting on.

Inviere · 27-02-2020 5:20pm

I've caught up now, with the exception of the episode 6 out today...but I must say I'm really enjoying it. It's so much more cohesive and focused than Discovery, and this is really holding my interest.

27-02-2020 5:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not crazy about Patrick Stewart in this. He doesn't hold the same booming presence he once had. He's getting on.

I could say the same about my dad who is 3 years older than Stewart.

No doubt someone will say the same about me in 50 years time.

Inviere · 27-02-2020 5:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I could say the same about my dad who is 3 years older than Stewart.

No doubt someone will say the same about me in 50 years time.

Exactly, he is different, he should be different, I'd expect him to be different. The important thing is he's different in a way that's natural...not a jarring or forced difference. He's Jean Luc Picard, he's older, vulnerable, and not as able as he once was...but he's still Jean Luc, and for all it's worth, that's all I care about.

pah · 27-02-2020 9:03pm

Inviere wrote: »

Exactly, he is different, he should be different, I'd expect him to be different. The important thing is he's different in a way that's natural...not a jarring or forced difference. He's Jean Luc Picard, he's older, vulnerable, and not as able as he once was...but he's still Jean Luc, and for all it's worth, that's all I care about.

It feels very forced and unnatural to me. There hasn't been a proper explanation IMO as to why he is so different to the last time we had him on screen

27-02-2020 11:16pm

I don't like the way he's called JL by Raffi.....seems like the sort of thing he wouldn't allow back in the day

jcrowbar · 27-02-2020 11:40pm

pah wrote: »

There hasn't been a proper explanation IMO as to why he is so different to the last time we had him on screen

Eh.... they spent the first few episodes doing just that. 20 years is a long time and people change. The galaxy is vastly different to what we saw last time in Nemesis.

pah · 27-02-2020 11:55pm

jcrowbar wrote: »

Eh.... they spent the first few episodes doing just that. 20 years is a long time and people change. The galaxy is vastly different to what we saw last time in Nemesis.

Eh... No. Picard had certain character traits and values that defined him and he is now a shadow of that person. We have been shown events that happened to Picard and we are simply told he is now different because of these events.

This doesn't make sense because his sense of honour, duty and commitment to truth would not allow him to slink away to his vineyard and just give up.

If you decide to take a character to a radically different place then you have a duty to try and explore the how and why instead of "just because"

Xertz · 28-02-2020 2:06pm

I think what's annoying me is not that Picard's aged, but rather he's not the rock of sense and stability that he always represented. He seems somehow quite indecisive and weak. The TNG Picard was an incredibly wise character and a very deep thinker who held huge weight on screen.

There was a certain confidence expressed by Picard and Janeway which which had moral fibre. That seems to be weakened.

I really didn't like Captain Archer on the Enterprise series for the same reason. He was a wishy-washy character who lacked that intellect, wisdom and reflective thinking. Kirk had it in spades.

Fundamentally, I think "the Captain" shouldn't really be someone full of flaws and self doubt. That's really not what the role is about and I'm not sure that we want to or need to see a weak and vulnerable character in that role and it's nothing to do with age. I think he could pull off a far more true to Picard role if it were better written.

I'm also really not liking this dystopian version of the Federation. To me, a lot of what was good about that whole concept was that the Federation had ideals, values, stood for something and was quite a contrast to the chaos that we experience in day-to-day politics in 20th/21st century reality. It was very ambitious future where humanity had basically made it. Now they've added in a load of gritty references to present day politics, references to money and so on. All that's somewhat beneath the TNG universe in my view.

It's watchable, but it's feeling a lot less like TNG and more like something about the meltdown of what had been a truly phenomenal society that had really become very rights based, thoughtful, reflective and deeply moralistic in a very intelligent way and I guess that is just the writers reflecting present day swings to the populist far right and so on in contemporary politics in the US, which is where they're getting their cultural point of view. The old 1980s/90s TNG was far more escapist and set out a very ambitious future.

The other aspect that's annoying me is that, like Discovery, they've really upped the gore and violence. I know that's probably due to the freedoms of a streaming service, as opposed to US network television, but it's made it just another gory sci-fi show and that's also somewhat devalued it in my view anyway.

Tenzor07 · 28-02-2020 2:24pm

Xertz wrote: »

I think what's annoying me is not that Picard's aged, but rather he's not the rock of sense and stability that he always represented. He seems somehow quite indecisive and weak. The TNG Picard was an incredibly wise character and a very deep thinker who held huge weight on screen..

Although the shows creators say this is "Prime" timeline, I have a feeling that they aren't familiar with it and their knowledge of Trek seems to be more so from the Kelvin Timeline...

And this is Lieutenant Picard as seen in the TNG Episode "Tapestry"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tapestry_(episode)

Evade · 28-02-2020 2:35pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Although the shows creators say this is "Prime" timeline, I have a feeling that they aren't familiar with it and their knowledge of Trek seems to be more so from the Kelvin Timeline...

And this is Lieutenant Picard as seen in the TNG Episode "Tapestry"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tapestry_(episode)

There's definitely some people working on it that have a decent knowledge of Star Trek but I'd say they get overruled by the more important people that know less.

Nody · 28-02-2020 2:36pm

I gave up after episode 5; this is simply not working and this is not who Picard is. I could go on a long rant on all the things they got wrong from wealth (which was suppose to be removed), the preaching, lore abuse (Synthehol intolerance for 7 of 9? Oh it magically disappeared along with a very long list of other issues with lore being ignored) etc. Simply put today The Orville is the actual Star Trek; this is simply some ****ty fan fiction.

pah · 28-02-2020 6:12pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Although the shows creators say this is "Prime" timeline, I have a feeling that they aren't familiar with it and their knowledge of Trek seems to be more so from the Kelvin Timeline...

And this is Lieutenant Picard as seen in the TNG Episode "Tapestry"

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tapestry_(episode)

This is one of the episodes that defined Picard as a character. IMO the new show acts like this never happened.

EltonJohn69 · 29-02-2020 1:10am

I THOUGHT THE MOST RECENT EPISODE WAS GREAT

ExoPolitic · 29-02-2020 5:16am

Cycle of trek; fans say show will be no good, fans convince themselves show is already no good before seeing, fans watch show and only complain, show gets cancelled, fans wonder why its been cancelled, fans watch reruns and love show for years to come...

Evade · 29-02-2020 2:02pm

FFVII · 29-02-2020 2:17pm

I like it.

Was a bit slow, I don't like the way they zoom in on JL

The whole premise/storyline is a bit sh1t.

But i like it.

pixelburp · 29-02-2020 2:28pm

I had heard this will only get 2 seasons, but not sure where exactly I read that all the same. So cancellation may not be an issue, more likely the desire for Stewart to keep going. A side character with a big enough impact might create a spin off though. Besides, not like there hasn't been former black sheep of fandom, retrospectively loved after the fact (I am of course talking of ... ... The animated series :pac:).

Stark · 29-02-2020 2:34pm

Just finished reading the prequel novel. (Star Trek Picard: the last best hope). The novel is great, well worth the read.

Goodshape · 29-02-2020 2:42pm

Xertz wrote: »

I think what's annoying me is not that Picard's aged, but rather he's not the rock of sense and stability that he always represented. He seems somehow quite indecisive and weak. The TNG Picard was an incredibly wise character and a very deep thinker who held huge weight on screen.

There was a certain confidence expressed by Picard and Janeway which which had moral fibre. That seems to be weakened.

I really didn't like Captain Archer on the Enterprise series for the same reason. He was a wishy-washy character who lacked that intellect, wisdom and reflective thinking. Kirk had it in spades.

I'm enjoying ST:Picard quite a bit. I think it's working on a lot of levels as a ~20 years later update to the TNG/DS9/Voy universe. Episodes 2 and 3 were weak, but it's been pretty solid since.

Having said that, have to agree with Xertz here. Would have preferred a different take on Picard himself. This guy too often seems unsure of himself, slightly overwhelmed, and a little too emotional. Based on what he's been through since last we saw him, I'd have imagined Picard getting a little angrier and even more stubborn, not softer. It's a lot more P.Stew than "JL".

But despite that I am enjoying it. I think the supporting cast and characters are all really strong, as is the world building – once they got away from Earth.

29-02-2020 2:55pm

Stark wrote: »

Just finished reading the prequel novel. (Star Trek Picard: the last best hope). The novel is great, well worth the read.

I bought the audio book but haven’t got round to it yet. Looking forward to filling in the gaps.

marcbrophy · 01-03-2020 12:01am

Goodshape wrote: »

This guy too often seems unsure of himself, slightly overwhelmed, and a little too emotional.

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

pah · 01-03-2020 12:56am

marcbrophy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

Convenient :rolleyes:

Inviere · 01-03-2020 4:59am

pah wrote: »

Convenient :rolleyes:

It's not convenient just because you don't like how the character turned out though.

Irumodic Syndrome.
Rejected by an organisation he literally devoted his life to.
Twenty years older.
Loss of a dear friend in a moment of self sacrifice.

You'd swear he was still a drone the way some people expect him to shake this stuff off. The man I'm seeing, five episodes in, has thrown his retirement aside in the hopes of protecting a girl who's in danger, despite all of the above (there's also the small hint that it's possible to somehow 'save' Data in all of this). That's pretty damn Jean-Luc to me.

GM228 · 01-03-2020 7:51am

marcbrophy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting that these are all symptoms of Irumodic Syndrome. Which the doc told him he had.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irumodic_Syndrome

If you ask me, this is exactly what Picard would be like after this condition starts to take hold!

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

Inviere · 01-03-2020 8:01am

GM228 wrote: »

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

Regardless, there's a defect in his parietal lobe.

Stark · 01-03-2020 8:12am

GM228 wrote: »

But only in the future as depicted by Q, all that he had/has in the present outside of Qs version of the future was a small structural defect in his parietal lobe which could (note "could" so inconclusive) lead to such a condition or similar conditions.

There was a strong hint the condition was taking hold in one of the earlier episodes of STP as well.

pah · 01-03-2020 2:20pm

I accept that the potential illness might be affecting him. It's not just about his condition now though. Admiral Picard of 14 years ago would have fought harder than he did for what he believed in based on the captain Picard we knew from just a few years previous to that.

Goodshape · 01-03-2020 4:46pm

pah wrote: »

Admiral Picard of 14 years ago would have fought harder than he did for what he believed in based on the captain Picard we knew from just a few years previous to that.

Well he did effectively resign over it.

_Kaiser_ · 02-03-2020 12:34am

Goodshape wrote: »

Well he did effectively resign over it.

Which is out of character in itself, especially for something he was so adamant about and dedicated to.

The Picard of old would have rounded up the old gang and gone rogue if needed (eg: First Contact when he ignores Command and brings the Enterprise into the battle with the Cube, or Insurrection where he violates orders again to defend the Ba'ku).

He wouldn't have thrown away his influence and career in a failed attempt to call Command's bluff, and he definitely wouldn't have given up and gone home to wallow while millions died and his loyal second (Raffi) took the fall as well.

Xertz · 02-03-2020 1:56am

Inviere wrote: »

Regardless, there's a defect in his parietal lobe.

You’d hardly think that would be beyond medicine in that era, given some of the stuff Dr Crusher has managed to resolve over the years.

Also could he just not get a Borg parietal lobe update?

uncleoswald · 02-03-2020 8:26am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The Picard of old would have rounded up the old gang and gone rogue if needed (eg: First Contact when he ignores Command and brings the Enterprise into the battle with the Cube, or Insurrection where he violates orders again to defend the Ba'ku).

But movie Picard was vastly different to TNG Picard so who the hell knows what he would do in any situation anymore. TNG Picard probably would have solemnly carried out his duties but then the Federation of TNG would never have abandoned the Romulans like that (I'm still not sure why they did in Picard, something to do with some rouge synths destroying the shipyards on Mars...

I'm not sure how the two events are related but I'm an episode behind so maybe that gets explained a bit better.

_Kaiser_ · 02-03-2020 9:14am

uncleoswald wrote: »

But movie Picard was vastly different to TNG Picard so who the hell knows what he would do in any situation anymore. TNG Picard probably would have solemnly carried out his duties but then the Federation of TNG would never have abandoned the Romulans like that (I'm still not sure why they did in Picard, something to do with some rouge synths destroying the shipyards on Mars... I'm not sure how the two events are related but I'm an episode behind so maybe that gets explained a bit better.

The Picard of TNG wasn't averse to bending or breaking the rules (including the Prime Directive) on occasion if it was the right thing to do though.

TNG or movie era, he just wouldn't have abandoned the Romulans like that, especially after his experience and mind meld with Sarek and Spock himself (the latter of whom was firmly committed to establishing a proper peace between them, Vulcan and the Federation).

pah · 02-03-2020 10:07am

Would much rather see Picard court martialed for continuing to help against orders and potentially dismissed from Starfleet or "get his ass fired" :rolleyes: as Raffi says. That would have been more in character. How often have we seen this happen in Trek and in the end very little consequence?

The biggest I can recall is Kirk's demotion to Captain but that was almost what he wanted all along. Tom Paris getting denoted is another?

Evade · 02-03-2020 11:07am

Season one Picard didn't have much of an issue going against Starfleet Command when their orders didn't make sense.

Stark · 02-03-2020 11:14am

Wasn't a matter of just "going against orders". How do you migrate billions of people without the help of the Federation/Starfleet?

The shipyards on Mars were involved in a massive shipbuilding program to make the migration feasible. With the shipyards destroyed, they didn't have enough remaining ships to continue the mission and keep the Federation running at the same time.

Evade · 02-03-2020 11:22am

If you're someone like Picard you do what you can. Gather public support, call in all your favours, since money exists again sell your vineyard and buy your own ship(s) and Dunkirk it like in his analogy.

pixelburp · 02-03-2020 11:30am

"Money exists again"? That doesn't seem correct: this is getting into spoilers for the actual show TBH but

the latest episode confirmed that Rios was being paid in Latinum, which only confirms that that still exists, and humans living outside of the Fed take it

Stark · 02-03-2020 11:41am

The whole Federation economy thing doesn't really make sense anyway. You see cafes and restaurants on Earth in TNG-era Trek. I guess we're supposed to believe that the proprietors keep them going for the love of serving people but that doesn't really add up. In the prequel book, Agnes and Bruce Maddox are nearly kicked out of a cafe for not buying anything.

I think it's more likely that the Federation operates on a universal basic income basis. All basic needs like food, shelter, healthcare, education are met but if you want anything more than the basics, then latinum is involved.

tromtipp · 02-03-2020 12:58pm

There were also those 'transporter credits' that Ben Sisko used up when he started at the Academy. Maybe they were a students-only thing, but maybe not. A credits system could be rationalised as not-really-money if it didn't accumulate interest, but is still currency. And it's hard to imagine that a huge credits-to-Latinum exchange system wouldn't develop very quickly. There are also those expensive-looking private collections of objects people put together - the African art from Ben's library, Marla Aster's stuff - and it seems that material possessions can pass down the generations.

So yes, lots of holes in the economic theory there.

pixelburp · 02-03-2020 1:30pm

I like the "universal income" idea, it would neatly explains the apparently visible economy / society not unlike our own on Federation Earth, yet wouldn't contradict the idea that the Federation promotes a non-material focused lifestyle.

The Expanse does it, albeit (IIRC) using it more of a caste based crutch, where the overpopulated Earth has to restrict job or voting access to those who "graduate" out of that UBI system. Honestly it's something I've thought of myself: with automation becoming more a reality, yet birthrates still climbing, it's entirely possible Western Countries have a permanent class of unemployed. There may not be enough jobs for everyone in the future.

Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [** POSSIBLE SPOILERS **]

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Star Trek: Picard - Amazon Prime [ POSSIBLE SPOILERS ]