Am I responsible?

Blaizes · 31-05-2019 10:37pm

If this is genuine post think it would have been better to post it in the farming forum/thread, farmers will definitely know whether a cat is capable of killing a chicken. I've had cats before have never experienced nor heard of it and don't see it as being likely but farmers would know for sure.

Bigbagofcans · 31-05-2019 10:38pm

Danzy wrote: »

Thankfully I typed rather than said it.

It is for the neighbour to consider, not us.

Pedantic and suggesting animal cruelty? Lovely :rolleyes:

odyssey06 · 31-05-2019 10:48pm

Feral cats a risk to hens... no reason to doubt this eyewitness account. If a feral cat could do it so could a roaming tomcat surely.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/dick-warner/feral-cats-a-big-risk-to-hens-343376.html

Ave Sodalis · 31-05-2019 10:54pm

Blaizes wrote:

If this is genuine post think it would have been better to post it in the farming forum/thread, farmers will definitely know whether a cat is capable of killing a chicken. I've had cats before have never experienced nor heard of it and don't see it as being likely but farmers would know for sure.

My neighbours cat left a male pheasant outside the door one day, and a squirrel another. I can definitely see one taking out a roosting hen.

Fiddlesticks99 · 31-05-2019 10:56pm

people are generally missing my point and just giving out to me. Cats do whatever they like, hunt, kill, scratch. Thats an animals nature. How can an owner be responsible for this.

People don't have sympathy for the idiots who get mauled after climbing into a lions den at zoo's do they? No, because that's nature for you.

Pissartist · 31-05-2019 11:03pm

Danzy wrote: »

Tell your neighbourhood to put down a saucer of antifreeze.

That's actually a great idea, cheap too

odyssey06 · 31-05-2019 11:04pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

people are generally missing my point and just giving out to me. Cats do whatever they like, hunt, kill, scratch. Thats an animals nature. How can an owner be responsible for this.
People don't have sympathy for the idiots who get mauled after climbing into a lions den at zoo's do they? No, because that's nature for you.

So is killing a cat that eats your chickens.
People dont have sympathy for roaming cats that dont come back alive. And the more it roams the more likely it is for one reason or another not to.
If you want natural law...

yoursaviour1989 · 31-05-2019 11:04pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I agree with that side. Cats roam. Its just what they do. Trying to imprison a cat in the house would be cruel to some extent. The worst they ever do is piss in your garden or kill the odd small bird, but you could put a collar with a bell on him and that's that sorted.

It is very unlikely a cat would kill a chicken, they dont really go for something this big. They even stay away from crows and gulls. I'd say a pigeon is probably the biggest they would go for. As for scratching a car thats more than unlikely, it makes no sense at all. A cat wouldn't scratch a car it might scratch a tree or a sofa but not a hard smooth surface like a car. If anything a cat might jump onto a car but even then it would make no sense for the cat to use its claws. Cats are amongst the most gracious and physically aware animals and they know very well what surfaces they need claws for and what surfaces they need a smooth grippy paw for.

Explain to her the car makes no sense at all and apologise and pay for the chicken and thereby keep the peace.

Cats can absolutely scrape cars, I've had it happen to me in the past. They climb up on the bonnet for the warmth of the engine or the roof for the heat of the sun.
Lived in an estate where cats roamed around freely and got multiple scrapes on the bonnet of my car. Didn't pursue anyone as it would be impossible to track the owner of a specific cat and the car wasn't worth much anyway. It's just a few thin lines in the paintwork.
Brand new A4 is a different story. I'd be very pissed if it were mine.

Mitch Connor · 31-05-2019 11:08pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

people are generally missing my point and just giving out to me. Cats do whatever they like, hunt, kill, scratch. Thats an animals nature. How can an owner be responsible for this.

People don't have sympathy for the idiots who get mauled after climbing into a lions den at zoo's do they? No, because that's nature for you.

You chose to get a pet. You chose to be responsible for that pet. If you know it is in the animals nature to kill a neighbors pet, maybe you should consider your responsibilities.

If you had a dog and it bit killed someones pet would you say the same?

I have two cats. Both are indoor cats, and they are well looked after and happy little kitties. So you can F off with your dismissal of criticism as 'anti-cat'.

Why on earth do you think the roaming of your cat is more important than the life of someone else's pet? Staggering ignorance and arrogance.

taytobreath · 31-05-2019 11:08pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Thats actually animal cruelty, very stressful for the animal. How is the cat meant to roam and hunt?

Neuter your cat, that tom has probably impregnated countless females that have given birth to countless more and most of these cats will see some sort of horrible suffering and cruelty because they are feral and hungry.

thats animal cruelty

anewme · 31-05-2019 11:11pm

I was just going to comment exactly as above re car. Ive seen scrapes on car bonnets by cats.

Its particularly noticeable on black.

If i see a cat near my brand new car it gets shooed away.

Mitch Connor · 31-05-2019 11:11pm

oh, and on the basic question. No, you are not responsible. You are not responsible at all. You don't show yourself as being at all responsible. You are a completely irresponsible pet owner.

Even forgetting the roaming, cause the reality is that is normal ownership behavior, but to not neuter your cat? Utterly irresponsible, ignorant and arrogant.

Pissartist · 31-05-2019 11:12pm

anewme wrote: »

I was just going to comment exactly as above re car. Ive seen scrapes on car bonnets by cats.

Its particularly noticeable on black.

If i see a cat near my brand new car it gets shooed away.

Put pepper on the bonnet he'll won't come back

LimeFruitGum · 31-05-2019 11:27pm

We had a soft top car and we caught cats sharpening their nails on the roof a few years ago. The OH was furious. It turned out one of the neighbours was leaving food out around various spots around the grounds, including the carpark because they felt sorry for all the roaming cats around the apartment block. Of course, nobody could figure out who owned which cat. They definitely weren’t strays, but it was impossible to know if they lived in our apt ground or wandered in from nearby houses and estates.
We just had to get a car cover and lots of cat repellents. But I can tell you, if we knew who owned the cats, we’d have had a word with their owner.
One the one hand, you are saying it’s your cat, and then it’s like ‘oh he just comes here for food’. Which is it. Take ownership. You got the cat, you are responsible for it.
BTW, you have to neuter the cat. Tomcats stink the place out with their pee as a way to mark territory unless they get the snip.

Mrs OBumble · 01-06-2019 4:03am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'll never understand why cat owners think it's ok that they can let their cat roam freely to do whatever it wants, it's grossly irresponsible

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

Cats roam, it's what they do.

But they don't scratch cars. And their interactions other a animals are simply nature in action.

Paddy Cow · 01-06-2019 4:26am

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Now come on, cat enclosure?!? ffs. What needs to change exactly?

Put a bell on your cat and it won't be able to kill anything. Simple but effective solution.

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 11:31am

taytobreath wrote: »

Neuter your cat, that tom has probably impregnated countless females that have given birth to countless more and most of these cats will see some sort of horrible suffering and cruelty because they are feral and hungry.

thats animal cruelty

Hypothetical argument

Igotadose · 01-06-2019 11:38am

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Put a bell on your cat and it won't be able to kill anything. Simple but effective solution.

They learn to hunt and keep the bell still.

Mine did, would see them running across the lawn, not a bell tinkle to be heard.

blinding · 01-06-2019 11:43am

Neuter the cat and yourself just to be sure .

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 11:47am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

oh, and on the basic question. No, you are not responsible. You are not responsible at all. You don't show yourself as being at all responsible. You are a completely irresponsible pet owner.

Even forgetting the roaming, cause the reality is that is normal ownership behavior, but to not neuter your cat? Utterly irresponsible, ignorant and arrogant.

How exactly am I "Utterly irresponsible, ignorant and arrogant"?? You would swear I lost a child while drinking or something. Unless I keep it locked up 24/7, the cat will roam, as it should.

Get over yourself

10fathoms · 01-06-2019 11:48am

I would consider your cat to be feral and treat it as such..

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 11:50am

Pissartist wrote: »

That's actually a great idea, cheap too

And less of the animal torture banter please.

Ave Sodalis · 01-06-2019 11:53am

Fiddlesticks99 wrote:

Unless I keep it locked up 24/7, the cat will roam, as it should.

Might be a good idea to snip it so.

riffmongous · 01-06-2019 11:57am

kingchess wrote: »

I will ponder deeply on this ,and get some advice from a mate of mine who is well versed in the Law,(he is always helping the Gardai with their inquiries ).But I think you should get away with it.

I need to steal this line

Autosport · 01-06-2019 12:36pm

One of my neighbors cat used to scratch my car and I bought a car cover and it still would sit up on the bonnet of my car and somehow still manage to scratch parts of the car so one day said cat was caught and brought to a rescue as I said I have a dog who would kill the cat if he caught it and the cat was a stray. Cats been gone quite a few years now

No point talking to irresponsible owners just deal with it yourself,

Zenify · 01-06-2019 12:42pm

I remember somebody saying to me that cats are wild animals and you are not responsible for their actions as they cannot be controlled. Unlike a dog.

borderlinemeath · 01-06-2019 12:45pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

How exactly am I "Utterly irresponsible, ignorant and arrogant"?? You would swear I lost a child while drinking or something. Unless I keep it locked up 24/7, the cat will roam, as it should.

Get over yourself

You have to be on a wind up.

Given your posting, you couldn't be any more irresponsible with the pet you choose to keep. Neuter the cat before it creates any more unwanted cats/kittens. Go onto any animal rescue website and see just how many bloody cats a single tom cat can impregnate and just how many kittens will be needlessly created because you are a lazy, ignorant irresponsible pet owner.

Then again, if you leave him unneutered, you will most likely end up with a big vets bill anyway. Unneutered toms will fight. A lot. Your cat will get scratches, bites, infections, FIV, FELV, you name it.

As for the chickens, it's possible. As for the car, highly possible this time of year. Cats love sitting up on the bonnet of a car.

I really hope your neighbour gets CCTV. That would soften your cough if there was evidence of your total lack of regard for her property.

odyssey06 · 01-06-2019 12:49pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

How exactly am I "Utterly irresponsible, ignorant and arrogant"?? You would swear I lost a child while drinking or something. Unless I keep it locked up 24/7, the cat will roam, as it should.
Get over yourself

What kind of person posts a question on an internet forum, then tells everyone who comes up with an answer he doesn't like to "Get over yourself."

Ignorance, arrogance and irresponsibility are only the start of it here.

If the cat has any sense it won't bother coming back.

Yer Da sells Avon · 01-06-2019 12:49pm

None of this would've happened if your neighbour had been sensible and kept her car indoors.

percy212 · 01-06-2019 12:50pm

Get the cat neutered. End of story.

Alternatively:
Let the neighbour prove your cat is the culprit. Otherwise they have nothing and you can ignore them.

Or:
Tell your neighbour to keep the chickens in at night and to put the car in an enclosure.

odyssey06 · 01-06-2019 12:54pm

Zenify wrote: »

I remember somebody saying to me that cats are wild animals and you are not responsible for their actions as they cannot be controlled. Unlike a dog.

A pet cat is property, not a wild animal. A feral cat is a wild animal.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9968640/How-the-law-views-cats.html

Cats Protection also says that it is a commonly-held view that cats have a right to roam wherever they wish. This view is largely based upon the fact that certain duties imposed upon the owners of dogs and livestock to keep their animals under control do not apply to cat owners. The law in these respects recognised that, by their nature, cats are less likely than some other animals to cause injury to people or damage to property. However, cat owners do have a general duty under law to take reasonable care to ensure that their cat does not cause injury to people or damage to property.

Given our common law heritage with UK, I think assume same legal status as UK unless hear otherwise with something ROI specific.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-06-2019 12:59pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

As for scratching a car thats more than unlikely, it makes no sense at all. A cat wouldn't scratch a car it might scratch a tree or a sofa but not a hard smooth surface like a car. If anything a cat might jump onto a car but even then it would make no sense for the cat to use its claws. Cats are amongst the most gracious and physically aware animals and they know very well what surfaces they need claws for and what surfaces they need a smooth grippy paw for.

Explain to her the car makes no sense at all and apologise and pay for the chicken and thereby keep the peace.

Cats scratch for a number of reasons including to maintain their claws, it relaxes them and Because scratching releases scent from their paws. It's marking territory in the third case and is perfectly likely in someone else's garden. It's more likely to scratch to maintain its claws and relax when on their own patch.

A cat might not particularly enjoy scratching a smooth surface like a car, as opposed to a tree. But if it becomes part of their routine when they enter the garden then it's likely they will continue to do it.

Not really buying the OP though. Just responding to this point about cat behaviour.

mvl · 01-06-2019 1:10pm

percy212 wrote: »

Get the cat neutered. End of story.

Alternatively:
Let the neighbour prove your cat is the culprit. Otherwise they have nothing and you can ignore them.

Or:
Tell your neighbour to keep the chickens in at night and to put the car in an enclosure.

Are you a home owner yourself ? this is not how you'd foster good relations with your neighbors !?!

Also, the neighbor is not obliged to let a "stray" cat roam freely in their garden/yard. no mind the one chicken: for a scratched car I'd check CCTV and then get the pet owner to pay; that is ... only if I'd have patience with the entire process. Cause what I'd really need is for the scratching to stop, I assume.
So, I'd rather advise OP to get a pet insurance with large third party liability for this cat ... and look into products for cat fencing !

Quandary · 01-06-2019 1:13pm

We lived in a relatively rural location for a long time and an annoying neighbours cat(also not neutered) was causing a lot of hassle late at night. People had politely asked her to keep her cat in at night but she didn't bother. One night , not for the first time, the cat jumped in through an upstairs window of a neighbours house and sprayed everywhere. The cat had also killed a pet rabbit a few weeks before this so tensions were running high.

Unfortunately for the cat, the neighbour took matters into his own hands and solved the problem permanently. We don't know exactly what he did but that was the last we saw of the cat.

Three days later the owner knocked around asking if anyone had seen her cat. She never found him and presumed he just ran away.

Poor cat met an unfortunate end and she went off on her merry, ignorant, inconsiderate way.

Unfortunately, some people think the world exists primarily for them and their enjoyment, and everything and everyone else is just along for the ride.

Vicarious Function · 01-06-2019 1:41pm

Having an unneutered tom which is allowed to roam at night sounds irresponsible in the extreme. This cat's life, will likely be shortened as, like feral cats, it will succumb to disease eventually.

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 1:45pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

You have to be on a wind up.

Given your posting, you couldn't be any more irresponsible with the pet you choose to keep. Neuter the cat before it creates any more unwanted cats/kittens. Go onto any animal rescue website and see just how many bloody cats a single tom cat can impregnate and just how many kittens will be needlessly created because you are a lazy, ignorant irresponsible pet owner.

Then again, if you leave him unneutered, you will most likely end up with a big vets bill anyway. Unneutered toms will fight. A lot. Your cat will get scratches, bites, infections, FIV, FELV, you name it.

As for the chickens, it's possible. As for the car, highly possible this time of year. Cats love sitting up on the bonnet of a car.

I really hope your neighbour gets CCTV. That would soften your cough if there was evidence of your total lack of regard for her property.

Thanks for your input, as irrelevant as it is. This issue is not about unwanted litters of kittens or impregnating other cats. Read my original post, thanks.

bottlebrush · 01-06-2019 1:49pm

well as a certain person said on the radio earlier in the week 'it's for a judge to decide'

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 1:49pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

You have to be on a wind up.

I really hope your neighbour gets CCTV. That would soften your cough if there was evidence of your total lack of regard for her property.

CCTV?! and then what?:D my cat will be identified?? lol

Maybe e fits could be posted around area

Fiddlesticks99 · 01-06-2019 1:51pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

A pet cat is property, not a wild animal. A feral cat is a wild animal.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9968640/How-the-law-views-cats.html

Cats Protection also says that it is a commonly-held view that cats have a right to roam wherever they wish. This view is largely based upon the fact that certain duties imposed upon the owners of dogs and livestock to keep their animals under control do not apply to cat owners. The law in these respects recognised that, by their nature, cats are less likely than some other animals to cause injury to people or damage to property. However, cat owners do have a general duty under law to take reasonable care to ensure that their cat does not cause injury to people or damage to property.

Given our common law heritage with UK, I think assume same legal status as UK unless hear otherwise with something ROI specific.

Alleged damage

Danzy · 01-06-2019 1:53pm

The neighbour should just kill the cat, problem solved.

How complex does this problem it have to be?

odyssey06 · 01-06-2019 2:00pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Alleged damage

Alleged cat. Alleged damage. Alleged owner. Alleged neighbour alegedly kills alleged cat after alleged cat allegedly kills
chickens. The end.

They have as much chance of proving your cat caused the damage... as you would of proving who was responsible for harm to your roaming cat.

Remember that.

noodler · 01-06-2019 2:06pm

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Thats actually animal cruelty, very stressful for the animal. How is the cat meant to roam and hunt?

Hehe good one.

Gwynplaine · 01-06-2019 2:15pm

Has to be a wind up. If I was the neighbour I'd capture that cat and take it for a drive

blinding · 01-06-2019 2:22pm

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Has to be a wind up. If I was the neighbour I'd capture that cat and take it for a drive

Very hard to drive a Cat . Really Difficult .

Zorya · 01-06-2019 4:23pm

blinding wrote: »

Very hard to drive a Cat . Really Difficult .

And also difficult to herd

OP you are being so grumpy about people telling you that you need to be better about your cat, that I doubt you are listening. But you need to be better about your cat. Or someone will kill it. That's just life.

davidk1394 · 01-06-2019 5:00pm

Had a neighbor like you before. Shot each pet they ever had. Each time they’d leave their dog off. In they come into our place. They never left though !

CalamariFritti · 01-06-2019 5:16pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Cats scratch for a number of reasons including to maintain their claws, it relaxes them and Because scratching releases scent from their paws. It's marking territory in the third case and is perfectly likely in someone else's garden. It's more likely to scratch to maintain its claws and relax when on their own patch.

A cat might not particularly enjoy scratching a smooth surface like a car, as opposed to a tree. But if it becomes part of their routine when they enter the garden then it's likely they will continue to do it.

Not really buying the OP though. Just responding to this point about cat behaviour.

I've had cats all my life and a cat will not scratch a car. I'd well believe the thing about scratching a convertible's soft top, yes, but the actual metal or paintwork? No.
The only scenario where this would happen was if a cat sat on a car and someone tried to scare or chase the cat off leading to the cat going off in a mad panic. There is practically zero chance a cat would try to sharpen her claws on a sheer metal surface. They dont actually sharpen their claws. They shed an outer layer of the actual claw brining a new fresh inner layer to the fore. They're using canvas or trees or such for that. A sleek even surface just wouldn't work.

emilymemily · 01-06-2019 5:38pm

I cant work out if youre a troll or not - I think you are but on the small chance youre serious, why do you have a pet cat if youre not looking after it properly?
Cats need to be neutered, your cat is creating dozens of stray little kittens that will most likely die, unneutered male cats are aggressive and get into more fights, not only putting other animals in danger but himself too, its very likely that he attacked those chickens as Tom cats that arent neutered can be viscous towards prey animals. - This is completely your responsibility as you are the owner and responsible for the cat.
He's more likely to get testicular cancer not to mention the lifetime of frustration youre setting him up for as the hormones can cause cats distress.
You shouldnt be letting your cats wonder at night and if you continue to do so youre going to learn this the hard way, either he'll be killed on the road or he'll come home some day in a bad state after being in a fight or from being attacked by a fox or a dog and you'll be the one paying the massive vet bill.
I have three male cats, they go outside during the day but are brought back in at night time, in the beginning it was hard to get them into the house but now they come home when its dark by themselves and run up to their beds after being fed. Theyre happy out and I know theyre safe and theyre not out hurting wildlife or getting into fights with other cats.

Really though, judging by your post, your cat would be much better off in an animal rescue where he can be re-homed and taken care of, as far as your concerned he's a stray cat that comes to your hosue for food, in other words, you dont look after him or take any responsibility for him, he may as well be wild. He deserves appropriate care and to be looked after which youre clearly incapable of doing.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-06-2019 5:42pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I've had cats all my life and a cat will not scratch a car. I'd well believe the thing about scratching a convertible's soft top, yes, but the actual metal or paintwork? No.
The only scenario where this would happen was if a cat sat on a car and someone tried to scare or chase the cat off leading to the cat going off in a mad panic. There is practically zero chance a cat would try to sharpen her claws on a sheer metal surface. They dont actually sharpen their claws. They shed an outer layer of the actual claw brining a new fresh inner layer to the fore. They're using canvas or trees or such for that. A sleek even surface just wouldn't work.

Yeah. I didn't say anything about sharpening claws. I said the reason they would scratch something smooth is because scratching produces scent which marks the object for other cats to smell.

There wouldn't prefer scratching metal. But it could be important to mark that area of the car with scent. For example of another cat sprayed it. It could also be sitting on the bonnet and scratching the car as it gets on and off. Not impossible. Not even terribly unlikely.

emilymemily · 01-06-2019 5:45pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. I didn't say anything about sharpening claws. I said the reason they would scratch something smooth is because scratching produces scent which marks the object for other cats to smell.

There wouldn't prefer scratching metal. But it could be important to mark that area of the car with scent. For example of another cat sprayed it. It could also be sitting on the bonnet and scratching the car as it gets on and off. Not impossible. Not even terribly unlikely.

They would be likely to scratch the tires, not the metal of the car, ive had cats my whole life and theyve never scratched a car like that.

Am I responsible?

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