Why do so many people want to devoid life of a spiritual meaning

Thelonious Monk · 29-05-2020 4:20pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

True. But I don’t know any other Ted!

Teddy Ruxpin. Teddy Roosevelt.

29-05-2020 4:39pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

I think people are seeking meaning in life... it can have a spiritual aspect.
Meaning can be a mission .... it could be a material mission. It could be being part of an activist group. All these things feed the same part of the brain that religion does. I make little difference between say, spiritual religion and fervent support on climate issues.

Whereas I view religion as structured/organised belief, often with external concerns (Mass, communion, absolution, etc all requiring the approval of an external influence). Spiritualism is concerned with the self. It could be matters of the soul, or personal development to encourage peace of mind through meditation.

topper75 · 29-05-2020 5:10pm

Candie wrote: »

Religion requires faith. Science requires evidence.

Yeah I don't take it on faith that I need Uranium 233 to get a reactor going in my shed.

I do it myself. I have no truck with faith. :pac:

Let's level with everyone here: both approaches ultimately involve believing what somebody else tells you when you get past the magnets and baking soda stuff.

Signore Fancy Pants · 29-05-2020 5:19pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Atheist beard guy picture

Irish Praetorian · 29-05-2020 5:27pm

Kase Jolly Mafioso wrote: »

In its most simple terms who would you most rather get stuck on a desert island with?:

2 dozen folks of various Christian failths, maybe a few Buddists, and couple Hindus too among them, all with unquantified positve outlooks, that somehow things will work out fine.
2 dozen athiests, perhaps with the risk of increased self-focus, anger at their clearly hopeless situation, or even hedonistic attitudes, and non-guided views of morality or fairness.

To be fair, the latter group is considerably less likely to lynch me for being gay, try to chop off bits of me in order to seal a covenant with god or randomly decide certain foodstuffs are ritually unclean and should not be eaten. I can't imagine it being Fire Island on Labour Day but I think it's pretty clear which side is offering the best odds.

jobeenfitz · 29-05-2020 5:31pm

completedit wrote: »

The religion of science in the hands of those not smart enough to truly understand it is every bit as scary as anything that has come before it.

This opening post is about science, the heading is about spirituality. I'm still not sure what your on about. Are you?

The One Doctor · 29-05-2020 5:37pm

Ipso wrote: »

It’s an attempt to discredit science bu trying to imply it’s not evidence based.

To be fair, a lot of science is merely informed opinion.

Dial Hard · 29-05-2020 5:45pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

To be fair, a lot of science is merely informed opinion.

Which is more than you can say about all religion, also to be fair.

completedit · 29-05-2020 5:52pm

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

To be fair, the latter group is considerably less likely to lynch me for being gay, try to chop off bits of me in order to seal a covenant with god or randomly decide certain foodstuffs are ritually unclean and should not be eaten. I can't imagine it being Fire Island on Labour Day but I think it's pretty clear which side is offering the best odds.

Always hear this. I know a lot of people who don't give a **** about religion or god or whatever else but if have the sexual preference you do, they'll deride you for that. People will find any reason to treat people indecently. Good people with religion will be good without religion. And bad people with religion will be like that regardless. Catholicism, Islam, ideologies, States, Politics, Economics are all not the problem. They are merely structures through which our prejudices manifest themselves.

Irish Praetorian · 29-05-2020 5:58pm

completedit wrote: »

Always hear this. I know a lot of people who don't give a **** about religion or god or whatever else but if have the sexual preference you do, they'll deride you for that. People will find any reason to treat people indecently. Good people with religion will be good without religion. And bad people with religion will be like that regardless. Catholicism, Islam, ideologies, States, Politics, Economics are all not the problem. They are merely structures through which our prejudices manifest themselves.

Ah I would be inclined to agree with a lot of that. In truth I suspect were at the stage where a lot of the lgbt community and the more conservative religious community (at least in the west) dont so much do battle as much as they are still riled up by the culture war that just ended.

RobbingBandit · 29-05-2020 6:00pm

Why should I care or suffer for what comes next

I AM HERE NOW

JohnnyFlash · 29-05-2020 6:03pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Is that you?

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-05-2020 6:09pm

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

To be fair, the latter group is considerably less likely to lynch me for being gay, try to chop off bits of me in order to seal a covenant with god or randomly decide certain foodstuffs are ritually unclean and should not be eaten. I can't imagine it being Fire Island on Labour Day but I think it's pretty clear which side is offering the best odds.

It's clear the holy folks would offer the best odds for community spirit, long term survival, and prosperity.

Unless you're thinking of Islamic faiths (didn't include in the post), you wouldn't have any risk of lynching, or not being able to eat wild boar on a deserted island, nor be pressured into praying six times per day, thus leaving little time for firewood collection.

Buddist and Hindus have zero issues with other religions, and the average Christian folks 99% of the time, not overly bothered, and might only meet up once a week, for an hour or so.

No idea what Fire Island on Labour Day is all about, but if you were to expand the 2 dozen stuck on an desert island to any sort or off worldly exploration, or mutli-generational prosperity, having the village people there would be good fun, and viable, but not overly ideal in much longer term survival situaitons.

Signore Fancy Pants · 29-05-2020 6:20pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Is that you?

No, but if you want to see me, pop around to your ma's around 9pm.

I will have a red t-shirt on, its important to remember that as it gets busy there on a bank holiday weekend. No point going from person to person asking which one of the lads SFP is.

I do have a beard like the guy in the your picture, although that doesnt really narrow it down with the hipster hoverboard brigade that does be there on a Friday....coupon night after all, 2 for the price of 1.

Anyway, see ya later.

29-05-2020 6:57pm

topper75 wrote: »

Let's level with everyone here: both approaches ultimately involve believing what somebody else tells you when you get past the magnets and baking soda stuff.

No. One involves believing what the evidence tells you.

The other involves believing what someone else tells you.

29-05-2020 6:58pm

Candie wrote: »

No. One involves believing what the evidence tells you.

The other involves believing what someone else tells you.

Which is which?..

29-05-2020 7:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is which?..

I thought religion was faith-based.

If I'm wrong, can you link to the evidence for the existence of God(s)? Because otherwise, that comment makes no sense.

29-05-2020 7:04pm

Candie wrote: »

I thought religion was faith-based.

If I'm wrong, can you link to the evidence for the existence for God(s)? Because otherwise, that comment makes no sense.

But, like, people can have profound spiritual experience..

Woke Hogan · 29-05-2020 7:05pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

No, but if you want to see me, pop around to your ma's around 9pm.

I will have a red t-shirt on, its important to remember that as it gets busy there on a bank holiday weekend. No point going from person to person asking which one of the lads SFP is.

I do have a beard like the guy in the your picture, although that doesnt really narrow it down with the hipster hoverboard brigade that does be there on a Friday....coupon night after all, 2 for the price of 1.

Anyway, see ya later.

That's not very christian of you

29-05-2020 7:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But, like, people can have profound spiritual experience..

They can indeed. Multiple anecdotes don't amount to evidence though.

29-05-2020 7:07pm

Candie wrote: »

They can indeed. Multiple anecdotes don't amount to evidence though.

But like, for those people, which is which?..

29-05-2020 7:09pm

what's the "want" about in the title?

belief is belief, its not a function of effort. you believe or you dont. if you have to work at it, you dont believe but for whatever reason you are pretending otherwise.

likewise spiritual fulfilment. its not a choice, its a state of being.

methods to get there, well that's a debate alright. but frame it correctly and not as a matter of "the right way is clear, why wont everyone just agree with me about it?"

29-05-2020 7:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But like, for those people, which is which?..

I'm not sure what you're after here. Just because someone believes something, it doesn't make it true. And because you don't believe it, that doesn't make it a lie.

People can have opinions, they aren't necessarily grounded in reality. You know that though.

Kylta · 29-05-2020 7:15pm

I think somewhere somebody has decided the martyrdom for modern day christians is in the after hours. The poor god fearing people put up a post and basically get vilified then go and show there religious leader how they endured persecution from most of the AH brigade. Needless to say (I'm not religious but I'm am spiritual or something in that vain) I totally agree the these new christians should be say crucified in the AH.
Thats just my opinion

Harry Palmr · 29-05-2020 7:25pm

Why would anyone imagine being trapped with a bunch Holy Joes would be preferable to a load of cost accountants?

Zebra3 · 29-05-2020 7:50pm

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I’m totally areligious but that being said I acknowledge that pretty much every known society and culture throughout history has had some sort of tradition of believing in a higher power.

Because which ever scumbag sat on a throne ordering the plebs about used the con of religion to control their society.

And to justify discrimination against women and justify wars.

One eyed Jack · 29-05-2020 7:51pm

endacl wrote: »

I’m smart enough to know devoid isn’t a verb.

It is -

verb (used with object)
to deplete or strip of some quality or substance:
imprisonment that devoids a person of humanity.

Dictionary.com definition

1 sheep2 · 29-05-2020 8:01pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It is -

verb (used with object)
to deplete or strip of some quality or substance:
imprisonment that devoids a person of humanity.

Dictionary.com definition

Dictionary.com is very much of the 'if it's used, it's right' school of thought. You won't find any traditional dictionary listing it as a verb.

One eyed Jack · 29-05-2020 8:29pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Dictionary.com is very much of the 'if it's used, it's right' school of thought. You won't find any traditional dictionary listing it as a verb.

To be fair to them, I think we all understood where the opening poster is coming from.

1 sheep2 · 29-05-2020 8:31pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To be fair to them, I think we all understood where the opening poster is coming from.

That seems to me a very low bar to have to meet.

Drumpot · 29-05-2020 8:35pm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Religion has done more harm than good over the centuries.

Also, anyone who actually believes there's a man in the sky judging us...well...needs help from a man/woman on Earth.

Religion doesn’t do any harm, people’s interpretation of it and how they act out on it is where the harm comes. You can probably apply the same thing to politics , capitalism and pretty much anything else humans can manipulate.

The problem at the centre of pretty much anything you can think of is a person or group of people manipulating others to their will.

NIMAN · 29-05-2020 8:36pm

I just think that it's not so much people trying to take anything away from life, but they aren't prepared to believe in something they consider nonsense to make their life seem more fulfilling or special.

completedit · 29-05-2020 8:44pm

Btw, I'm not actually religious. I believe religion acts as an interesting and worthy part of the human experience. And something we should be careful to demonise in my own opinion.

Also, never knew devoid was not a verb. Learn something new everyday.

Drumpot · 29-05-2020 8:46pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I just think that it's not so much people trying to take anything away from life, but they aren't prepared to believe in something they consider nonsense to make their life seem more fulfilling or special.

I’d argue most people have a belief in some sort of nonsense and it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest religion is anymore nonsense then a lot of things we just accept as part of life. I think most people tell themselves a story that they aren’t going to die. I sell life assurance and nobody ever thinks they will need to be claiming. It’s only one example where people tell themselves a lie to just get by. The way some people live (over eat, drink and just not taking care of themselves) you can tell there is zero thought given to where that will end.

Regardless of your proclivity, desiring more crap and being a slave consumerist is the biggest nonsense and shallowist existence I can imagine possible. I’m as much a consumerist as anybody here but I’m conscious of the absurdity of it. Consumerism is effectively a religion at this stage. Look at Black Friday, people stampeding each other to buy crap they don’t need.

Religion will just be replaced with something probably even more damaging and less spiritual.

I’m not religious but I do try to be more Spiritual. To me, it’s a very conscious contact I have at times with nature. My dog, walking in a Forrest or open field. Even enjoying a simple interaction watching my wife and children talk. Simple pleasures that hurt nobody, really enjoy the moment with an acceptance that this could be gone at any moment. I sometimes have conversations with my dead dad in my head because I miss him and I find it comforting to remember and think about him. If I take a scientific approach I just discard this idea as a stupid placebo type delusion to make myself feel a bit better or miss him less, what benefit is there to that?

I find the attack of religion quite often misguided, as I’ve said humans are the cause of the corruption of everything.

One eyed Jack · 29-05-2020 8:46pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

That seems to me a very low bar to have to meet.

We have threads in After Hours about boners and toilet etiquette, by that standard I think the OP has raised the bar considerably :pac:

JohnnyFlash · 29-05-2020 9:17pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We have threads in After Hours about boners and toilet etiquette, by that standard I think the OP has raised the bar considerably :pac:

Very important topics, dude.

1 sheep2 · 29-05-2020 9:29pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We have threads in After Hours about boners and toilet etiquette, by that standard I think the OP has raised the bar considerably :pac:

I was referring to OP's grammar. Your critical reading skills must be atrocious.

Blaze420 · 29-05-2020 9:34pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I was referring to OP's grammar. Your critical reading skills must be atrocious.

Nobody likes grammar nazis - stick your head up your own ass and revel in your intelligence if you want, but correcting spelling or grammar on the internet is akin to competing physically fit in the special olympics.

1 sheep2 · 29-05-2020 9:44pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

Nobody likes grammar nazis - stick your head up your own ass and revel in your intelligence if you want, but correcting spelling or grammar on the internet is akin to competing physically fit in the special olympics.

Deep breath. I corrected no one's grammar. I responded to someone who claimed that devoid is a verb and who went on to misconstrue what I said.

Much like real life, 'Antifa' are just as annoying as what they oppose.

Rodney Bathgate · 29-05-2020 9:47pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Deep breath. I corrected no one's grammar. I responded to someone who claimed that devoid is a verb and who went on to misconstrue what I said.

Much like real life, 'Antifa' are just as annoying as what they oppose.

Antifa are fascist scum.

Aongus Von Bismarck · 29-05-2020 11:39pm

We live in a world where consumerism and individualism have become almost doctrine. It’s a world that I’ve navigated well in my career, but as I get older, I’ve started to realise that the spiritual aspect of one’s existence is extremely important. The lack of it is referred to in some pop psychology circles as the ‘God Hole’. There’s a reason people are riddled with anxiety, depression, and loneliness. And in debt.

I’ve been practising mindfulness meditation for the past 8 years, and I can think of no other activity that has brought me more benefit, joy, and serenity. It’s 10 minutes of bliss twice per day. There’s a lot of people who feel they need to subscribe to Headspace, Calm, or one of those McMindfulness apps. There isn’t.

There’s a wonderfully simple app called Oak that does all you need. Or visit the folk on https://mindfulness.ie/ They are carrying out guided meditation sessions on Zoom each evening. All you need is a chair.

jobeenfitz · 30-05-2020 12:02am

Drumpot wrote: »

I’d argue most people have a belief in some sort of nonsense and it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest religion is anymore nonsense then a lot of things we just accept as part of life. I think most people tell themselves a story that they aren’t going to die. I sell life assurance and nobody ever thinks they will need to be claiming. It’s only one example where people tell themselves a lie to just get by. The way some people live (over eat, drink and just not taking care of themselves) you can tell there is zero thought given to where that will end.

Regardless of your proclivity, desiring more crap and being a slave consumerist is the biggest nonsense and shallowist existence I can imagine possible. I’m as much a consumerist as anybody here but I’m conscious of the absurdity of it. Consumerism is effectively a religion at this stage. Look at Black Friday, people stampeding each other to buy crap they don’t need.

Religion will just be replaced with something probably even more damaging and less spiritual.

I’m not religious but I do try to be more Spiritual. To me, it’s a very conscious contact I have at times with nature. My dog, walking in a Forrest or open field. Even enjoying a simple interaction watching my wife and children talk. Simple pleasures that hurt nobody, really enjoy the moment with an acceptance that this could be gone at any moment. I sometimes have conversations with my dead dad in my head because I miss him and I find it comforting to remember and think about him. If I take a scientific approach I just discard this idea as a stupid placebo type delusion to make myself feel a bit better or miss him less, what benefit is there to that?

I find the attack of religion quite often misguided, as I’ve said humans are the cause of the corruption of everything.

I sometimes attack religion because I believe its a "made up load of sh1t". Made up by humans, obviously without proof. It should be attacked and scoffed at just like a belief in fairies should. I grew up in Ireland in 1960s/1970s when the grubby Cathiolic church held too much power over us. I wish the brits had wiped them out.

I think people who defend religion are misguided and brainwashed.

Kylta · 30-05-2020 8:12am

jobeenfitz wrote: »

I sometimes attack religion because I believe its a "made up load of sh1t". Made up by humans, obviously without proof. It should be attacked and scoffed at just like a belief in fairies should. I grew up in Ireland in 1960s/1970s when the grubby Cathiolic church held too much powepr over us. I wish the brits had wiped them out.

I think people who defend religion are misguided and brainwashed.

Ahhhh. What do you mean by fairies don't exist! Your mad you, next you'll be saying santa doesn't exist or the poor easter bunny. I suppose milkmaid mary who stole my virginity doesn't exist either. How cold you just made my world and in the summer too

30-05-2020 8:46am

completedit wrote: »

We should leave space as part of the human experience for such thoughts. But should be separated from the state but has to be done in a way that connects kids to the spiritual past and our inherent wonder that science doesn't explain and shouldn't attempt to invade.

I'll compromise, and agree with you, but only for kids and only up until 10 to 11 years old, and only for Santa Claus. Deal?

30-05-2020 8:48am

Wavelet50 wrote: »

Spirituality exists outside of religion, I don't believe in a God in the sky, but I believe in spirituality.

In addition to meditation that has already been recommended, I would also recommend a dopamine detox. Eliminate anything that gives you a spike of dopamine, masturbation, junk food, sweets, fizzy drinks, television, your smartphone and so on. Spirituality is finding joy outside of these instant pleasures

And actual sex too? I'm going to pass on this spirituality as well, thanks.

30-05-2020 9:19am

Wavelet50 wrote: »

Yes sex too. It doesn't have to be permanent, long enough for you to lose your dependence on such pleasures.

I suspect this is was a factor in the origin of Ramadan and Lent.

'Dependence on such pleasures'

Sounds like a cult, I'm out.

8kczg9v0swrydm · 30-05-2020 10:18am

I can just share my 2 cent as a practicing Catholic.

There is absolutely nothing, or no one, who has changed my life as much as Jesus Christ. Words cannot describe the joy, fulfillment and peace which come daily through a personal relationship with Him. He is my rock, my strength, my everything. Through Him, I find that life has colour, meaning and zest. For Him, I want to be better, kinder, more helpful and more forgiving to other people - I want His words to forever linger in my mind.

Wasn't always like that though. Used to kind of go through the motions when I was young, but when I went to college, I started to read the Bible. That is when the Mass, prayer, Confession and the moral life all started making sense.

30-05-2020 11:38am

Jaxton Jealous Suspense wrote: »

I can just share my 2 cent as a practicing Catholic.

There is absolutely nothing, or no one, who has changed my life as much as Jesus Christ. Words cannot describe the joy, fulfillment and peace which come daily through a personal relationship with Him. He is my rock, my strength, my everything. Through Him, I find that life has colour, meaning and zest. For Him, I want to be better, kinder, more helpful and more forgiving to other people - I want His words to forever linger in my mind.

Wasn't always like that though. Used to kind of go through the motions when I was young, but when I went to college, I started to read the Bible. That is when the Mass, prayer, Confession and the moral life all started making sense.

When you had this RTD experience while reading the bible do you mean the NT? Because how anyone apathetic could read the OT and become religious is beyond me. I can somewhat see the appeal of the NT, but the OT is almost childish when looked at from a grown up perspective.

8kczg9v0swrydm · 30-05-2020 12:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When you had this RTD experience while reading the bible do you mean the NT? Because how anyone apathetic could read the OT and become religious is beyond me. I can somewhat see the appeal of the NT, but the OT is almost childish when looked at from a grown up perspective.

Hi Chinese whospers,

Admittedly, yes it was the NT that I read. The OT can be a lot tougher, but it is also massively rewarding when studied (you would need a good commentary for this). Moreover, it has some beautiful passages:

But Zion said, “The LORD has forsaken me; the Lord has forgotten me!”
“Can a woman forget her nursing child,
or lack compassion for the son of her womb?
Even if she could forget,
I will not forget you!
Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
your walls are ever before Me.

(Isaiah 49)

Set me as a seal on your heart, as a seal on your arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which has a most vehement flame. Mighty waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot sweep it away. If a man were to give all the wealth of his house for love, his offer would be utterly scorned.

(Song of Songs 8)

Zebra3 · 30-05-2020 12:27pm

Jaxton Jealous Suspense wrote: »

I can just share my 2 cent as a practicing Catholic.

There is absolutely nothing, or no one, who has changed my life as much as Jesus Christ. Words cannot describe the joy, fulfillment and peace which come daily through a personal relationship with Him. He is my rock, my strength, my everything. Through Him, I find that life has colour, meaning and zest. For Him, I want to be better, kinder, more helpful and more forgiving to other people - I want His words to forever linger in my mind.

Wasn't always like that though. Used to kind of go through the motions when I was young, but when I went to college, I started to read the Bible. That is when the Mass, prayer, Confession and the moral life all started making sense.

Pity that you believe all that stuff yet are a member of an organisation that has committed and covered up horrific crimes against women and children.

Why do so many people want to devoid life of a spiritual meaning

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