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Turbo of the week

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  • 20-03-2015 11:45am
    #1
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭


    Given the questions and queries about turbo sessions over the last few week..........

    If this takes off it takes off and I'll do a weekly session. If not, well no skin off my nose.

    Goal of the session is to work on threshold power, not so much increasing it but learning to endure it.

    Things you need:
    * A turbo
    * A fan - opening windows etc, etc isn't enough, even in winter you need a big fan
    * HRM or power meter

    10 easy
    5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
    5x(4 LTHR + 5-10bpm or 105-110%FTP, 2 easy)
    5 easy

    Time: 0:50
    Difficultly rating: 6/10

    The session in English is:
    10 minutes just spinning easy, think two hour spin effort.
    Then five reps of 30 seconds where you start each one a little above easy and build over the course of the 30 seconds to a moderately hard effort, then 30 seconds easy. Cadence for the builds should be maintained ie if you spin at 85rpm at the start of each one you end each one at 85rpm, increasing gear or load to accomodate.
    Then five reps of the below
    For power users: 4 minutes at 105% FTP, 2 minutes easy(60%)
    For HR users: you need to know your LTHR. Now add 5bpm to it. How you want to approach the effort is not "smack the fist minute really hard to get the HR up to the number and then back off to maintain." You want to start at an effort that will result in your HR trending up to LTHR+5bpm and settling there without backing off. The same output should be maintained for all reps. As the reps go on then the target HR will be hit sooner and sooner. Training with heart rate is as much a journey of self discovery as training. Then two minutes spinning
    Finish off the session with 5 minutes easy


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    #2
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Great idea.

    Following.


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    #3
    Solobally8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Solobally8


    Thanks Tunney I'm in.


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    #4
    johnk123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭johnk123


    Great idea! Thanks for sharing!


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    #5
    pointer28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭pointer28


    Good idea, thanks for helping.


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    #6
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Did this session this morning. Don't have a big ass fan so did it in the back garden :D. I haven't sat on a bike since last august so was a bit nervous. Enjoyed it, the 4min LTHR intervals were testy. The first one I did too hard, but learned from that and controlled the effort in the others. For the last one I was hitting target HR with less perceived effort, a sign of my poor fitness I think. Looking forward to more of these.


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    #7
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Cheers Tunney. Doing my first turbo in ages and remember reading this thread. Beat doing a boring spin. Like Griffin found first rep hard to even get to my LTHR+5 but following reps 'easier' to maintain for progressively fewer watts.


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    #8
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    shotgunmcos wrote: »
    Cheers Tunney. Doing my first turbo in ages and remember reading this thread. Beat doing a boring spin. Like Griffin found first rep hard to even get to my LTHR+5 but following reps 'easier' to maintain for progressively fewer watts.

    What you don't want is to go hammer and tongs to get the HR up and then die off. HR is great but really only suited to longer intervals or steady state sessions. The response from the heart lags too much. To be honest I'd use RPE except I think that that would really really confuse people newer to the sport and concepts. May try to define a scale and use that if there is interest in me doing these more.


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    #9
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Followed exactly that. Didn't drill it to get HR up. It took over 2 mins to hit target HR on rep 1 and less than a minute on rep 5. I didn't fade or die off. in each subsequent rep I hit target HR at a lower watt and held it. Simply a lack of fitness.

    RPE for endurance reps is better alright but you need good knowledge and "feel" of your zones/thresholds to do that. Takes a bit of consistent training :rolleyes:

    +1 for continuing. I thnk you have defined, in english, perfectly. A scale may complicate things IMO. I generally find them too vague. Often you may think "7" but its actually more like 8 or 9 or you think 10 but have another gear etc..


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    #10
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    tunney wrote: »
    What you don't want is to go hammer and tongs to get the HR up and then die off. HR is great but really only suited to longer intervals or steady state sessions. The response from the heart lags too much. To be honest I'd use RPE except I think that that would really really confuse people newer to the sport and concepts. May try to define a scale and use that if there is interest in me doing these more.

    If you could give an RPE scale, I'd appreciate it. Neanderthal that I am.


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    #11
    Chartsengrafs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chartsengrafs


    Thanks for that, gave it a go this evening, felt useful. Keep 'em coming please.


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    #12
    68 lost souls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Club turbos are wrapping up next week so hope to jump on this after that.


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    #13
    BennyMul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭BennyMul


    Cheers Tunney
    Question for you, (if you don't mind)
    When doing the 5x(4) should | could you do more than 5 if the power has not dropped below the 105%?

    thanks


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    #14
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    BennyMul wrote: »
    Cheers Tunney
    Question for you, (if you don't mind)
    When doing the 5x(4) should | could you do more than 5 if the power has not dropped below the 105%?

    thanks

    5x(4 LTHR + 5-10bpm or 105-110%FTP, 2 easy)

    Keep it at the upper range.

    Its not meant to be a set to exhaustion.

    I had originally ranked it at a 4/10 and I (personally) think that that is about right. It was suggested by people "if thats a 4/10 will you not scare people?" so I moved it to 6/10 to keep these people quiet.

    Its meant to be on the easier side of sessions. I think in future I might do a few variants of the session with different ratings.
    Thoughts?


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    #15
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    tunney wrote: »
    Thoughts?

    KISS principle and let people modify it for themselves.

    If not able for (5 x 4) do (4 x 4) with longer recoveries and build over a couple of weeks. Not everyone has the same base fitness.


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    #16
    Bambaata
    Registered Users Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    When you get into the 120%'s then the pain really starts!!


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    #17
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Week two.

    Going to introduce a perceived effort scale

    Recovery
    Easy
    Steady
    Mod hard
    Hard
    All out

    But how to relate these to sensations. Two approaches:

    Speech/song
    Recovery = Could have a full blown conversation, whistle, sing and go all day at this intensity and not even away of the effort
    Easy = Could have a full blown conversation, whistle, sing but wouldn't be going ALL day and would become aware of the effort
    Steady = Could talk but conversation would be slightly broken, singing sort of, whistling out
    Mod hard = Could talk but not inclined to, no signing or whistling possible
    Hard = Silence
    All out = groans, maybe screams

    Bodily functions
    Recovery = Could possibly manage a tug
    Easy = Could wee or want to wee
    Steady = Not inclined to any bodily emissions, but might feel like eating something if you had too
    Mod hard = Hard going, not inclined to emit or ingest anything
    Hard = May commit, have vomited, or sensing vommit in your future if this keeps up
    All out = May possibly sh1t yourself


    The session

    Power or percieved effort. HR no good to you here, but the 30 minutes would be above threshold really.

    10 easy or < 75%FTP
    5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
    10x(2:45 mod hard or 90%FTP, 0:15 hard or 120%)
    5+ easy

    Difficulty(6/10)

    In English
    Ride for then minutes
    Then five reps of 30 seconds where you start each one a little above easy and build over the course of the 30 seconds to a moderately hard effort, then 30 seconds easy.
    Then ten reps of 2:45 at low end of threshold effort, sprint distance olympic 90% FTP, mod hard effort, then for 15 seconds you smack it hard. There is no recovery. The recovery is the 90%
    Then just spin the legs easy.

    Those I have worked with will recognise this set, those I have worked with for a while know its only half the set. Its an interpretation and reduction of Bill Blacks Hour of Power. Hint is in the name. The full session is 20 reps. Doing the 20 brings the difficulty level way up. This set can be varied by changing the %FTP to be 85% or 95% instead of 90%, and the 120% could likewise come up or down by 5%.

    If you have been swinging you mickey and calculating FTP using a too high multiple or off an NP effort then the full 90/120 Hour of Power will expose you.

    If you aren't maintaining the wattages (or honest efforts) then bin the session.


    Previous sessions
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057400239


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    #18
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    If any of the many other Polar fans* want I will create these on Flow and share with you through the coach platform.






    *RQ just message me


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    #19
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do the ladies have a tug?


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    #20
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do the ladies have a tug?

    Ask them politely and buy them flowers.


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    #21
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    I'm almost afraid to ask, but how do the ladies have a tug?
    If you dont know by now, babe, theres no hope for you.

    Thanks tunney for giving me a laugh today. Best descriptions of RPE ever.


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    #22
    zico10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭zico10


    Appreciate this Tunney, especially the RPE scale.

    Would it not be better to keep all the sessions in the one thread though?


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    #23
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    zico10 wrote: »
    Appreciate this Tunney, especially the RPE scale.

    Would it not be better to keep all the sessions in the one thread though?

    Certainly an option. If that's what people want we can ask the mods to merge.


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    #24
    griffin100
    Registered Users Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Now that was interesting. Found the last 9 minutes of the main set very tough. PE was kept were it was supposed to be, with a review of HR afterwards showing effort was indeed hard, but I'd say my power output was quite low by the end. Don't fancy trying the full hour of this.


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    #25
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    griffin100 wrote: »
    Now that was interesting. Found the last 9 minutes of the main set very tough. PE was kept were it was supposed to be, with a review of HR afterwards showing effort was indeed hard, but I'd say my power output was quite low by the end. Don't fancy trying the full hour of this.

    Same as you again this week. I found last 3 intervals, or 9 mins tough too. Just poor fitness. Hit LTHR after the 7th interval and sustained it to the end of the set. If the planned RPE was 6/10. This felt like 7+

    I sort of liked the 90%. Doesn't hurt but hard enough to concentrate

    I could do with doing more than the single weekly turbo :rolleyes:

    Thanks again Tunney.


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    #26
    Chartsengrafs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chartsengrafs


    Tried this and enjoyed it. I find these sessions a bit more focussed than some of those on TrainerRoad, the purpose of some of them I really wouldn't be sure of.


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    #27
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    How many have done this session or plan to? Interested to hear how others find it


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    #28
    cuculainn
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭cuculainn


    tunney wrote: »
    Week two.


    10x(2:45 mod hard or 90%FTP, 0:15

    Iam doing the sessions based off percieved excertion, Just a quick question on this set. Should I go from mod hard to hard by inceasing cadence for the 15 sec or by inceasing resistance and maintaining the same cadence as for the 2 min 45 sec? Or a combination of both (thats what I did this time)

    BTW thanks for going to bother to post sessions


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    #29
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    shotgunmcos wrote: »
    How many have done this session or plan to? Interested to hear how others find it

    have done it, but it's been a while. it's a deceptive one. doesn't look that bad when you see it first, and first couple of repeats you're thinking not too bad. get harder from there though!!


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    #30
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    cuculainn wrote: »
    Iam doing the sessions based off percieved excertion, Just a quick question on this set. Should I go from mod hard to hard by inceasing cadence for the 15 sec or by inceasing resistance and maintaining the same cadence as for the 2 min 45 sec? Or a combination of both (thats what I did this time)

    BTW thanks for going to bother to post sessions

    I would avoid spinning faster on its own. Depending on your turbo this may or may not kick in with a higher load in time.

    Combination of both would be fine!


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    #31
    hf4z6sqo7vjngi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    shotgunmcos wrote: »
    How many have done this session or plan to? Interested to hear how others find it

    Have done that session in the past and it looks easier on paper than it actually is. I use a different variation to Tunneys session listed which is more suited now for bike racing i am doing.

    10mins easy, 200w
    3x10mins as (20sec @ 120% 400w, 40sec @ 90% 300w)
    5mins recovery between each 10min interval
    warm down

    Starting off you would build up the intervals from 6min, 8min up to 10min intervals, generally i would not go above it. The other variable would be increasing time at 120% from 20sec up 40sec and reducing time at 90% the opposite direction. Very difficult session and you would need to be fresh heading into it. Difficulty rating would be a 5 but you would soon work that up to an 8 or 9 as you alter the session.

    Very worthwhile thread.


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