New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Christy42 · 28-04-2020 11:40am

ELM327 wrote: »

So... being proud of your country fighting against the british makes you a white supremacist?
****. I'm a white supremacist so.

A lot of people jump to racism because of the south, the confederate flag, etc. Conveniently forgetting the black regiments in the CSA. The black slave owners etc. This is not even the CSA flag, it's the 3%.

I mean. They fought the British a few hundred years ago. I don't think it is a Washington fan club where they go to his concerts. To begin with they don't actually care about it enough to get their history correct (the 3% figure for those who fought against the Brits is incorrect). It is another wannabe militia group with little oversight which will end up training terrorists and doing nothing actually worthwhile for anyone.

Near as I can see most of their activities involves being a non professional security group who show at events where no one actually wants them. That and they have ended up with a fair few wannabe terrorists and offered to protect Senators from policemen doing their job when the Republicans fled their duty in Oregan.

It is an extremist group and as such is a red flag for the Pats to do their homework. Presumably they have.

Foxtrol · 28-04-2020 1:58pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Marshall had 64 black players on their roster last year, and 4 black coaches.

Do you really think their kicker is an active white supremacist?

Come on.

Oh the 'I can't be, I know some black people' excuse :rolleyes:

To be fair I don't know what his opinions are but the group he has a tattoo of seems to be littered with white supremacists, though mostly just conspiracy nut willy measuring wannabe hard men. When you read about them it seems like an incredibly sad group of people but you can see why members have ended up involved in several terrorist/hate attack plots.

For all those complaining about this being overblown, the exact same would happen if it turned out a late round draft pick had a gang tattoo. The story would then be exacerbated if the initial explanation he gave was that 'they are random' and his later excuse was at best misleading, if not a complete lie. There are numerous pictures of him in college without a tattoo, so he wasn't some innocent young teenager when he got it.

Whether the lad fails or succeeds, the Patriots have set him up for a nice post playing career in the far right media.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 28-04-2020 2:08pm

Jesus lads relax the cacks there a small bit. I've expressed a concern over the draft pick.

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Marshall had 64 black players on their roster last year, and 4 black coaches.

Do you really think their kicker is an active white supremacist?

Come on.

I'm not saying he is that, but there is a link. I'm just saying I'd rather not have a player with any link like that on the Patriots.

College players have far less say than professionals. They're there at the grace of the head coach and any problematic players are generally swiftly dispensed with.

ELM327 wrote: »

So... being proud of your country fighting against the british makes you a white supremacist?
****. I'm a white supremacist so.

A lot of people jump to racism because of the south, the confederate flag, etc. Conveniently forgetting the black regiments in the CSA. The black slave owners etc. This is not even the CSA flag, it's the 3%.

It's funny how upset yourself and ee get when the 3 percenters are likened to white supremacists - which they clearly are.

Anyway I'm bowing out of this debate. It's gotten some very strong reactions of which I'm not too bothered about.
My concern stands over the kicker, personally I would've been happier had we not drafted him, but as I said before, I hope I'm wrong. I don't really care beyond that.

ELM327 · 28-04-2020 2:36pm

No one was bothered when Kraft, Bill and TB12 were good mates with the Donald.

eagle eye · 28-04-2020 2:38pm

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote:

I'm not saying he is that, but there is a link. I'm just saying I'd rather not have a player with any link like that on the Patriots.

I see how you conveniently don't respond to the part where I mention what's in the threepercenter's charter about defending people regardless of Race/Religion/Creed.

ELM327 · 28-04-2020 2:39pm

It doesnt matter as it doesnt suit their agenda you see.

Foxtrol · 28-04-2020 2:47pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I see how you conveniently don't respond to the part where I mention what's in the threepercenter's charter about defending people regardless of Race/Religion/Creed.

And you conveniently ignore how many of their members ignore this charter and it appears like it is there for nothing more than for PR

el Fenomeno · 28-04-2020 2:53pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Oh the 'I can't be, I know some black people' excuse :rolleyes:

I see it as more of a "if I was a white supremacist who was so up front about my white power beliefs that I would get it tattooed on my arm for everyone to see, I wouldn't last a day as the minority in a testosterone filled environment surrounded by the majority who are the very people I encourage hate against" excuse.

That, and the fact plenty of his teammates have rubbished the "he's racist" angle since this came out.

You must have wet your pants in excitement when the Patriots drafted this chap.

Foxtrol · 28-04-2020 3:05pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

I see it as more of a "if I was a white supremacist who was so up front about my white power beliefs that I would get it tattooed on my arm for everyone to see, I wouldn't last a day as the minority in a testosterone filled environment surrounded by the majority who are the very people I encourage hate against" excuse.

That, and the fact plenty of his teammates have rubbished the "he's racist" angle since this came out.

You must have wet your pants in excitement when the Patriots drafted this chap.

So you're saying it is a white power group and tattoo now?

The player himself has stated that the group is not what he represents and that it is 'shameful', yet we still have posters here defending the group and the tattoo.

You're taking a bad route here if you're trying to project some kind of bias here with my opinion on this. I was vocal about my concerns about Bosa's social media posts prior to the draft last year and how it could impact the 49ers if he joined them and that was nothing close to this situation.

el Fenomeno · 28-04-2020 8:34pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

So you're saying it is a white power group and tattoo now?

Have I said otherwise, or have I denied saying otherwise? Show me where I've said anything about the group... because I haven't. I haven't a clue who they are.

All I've said is that I don't buy the "he's a white supremacist" angle which you and others have put forward. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his own explanation, the testimony of his teammates and his unblemished tenure on a team where his peers are the group he supposedly campaigns against (if your side of the story is to be believed)

Simple as that.

I don't know anything about the group or what they do or don't stand for. Didn't even know they existed before this and will in all likelihood forget their existence a week from now.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 28-04-2020 9:17pm

"Patriots kicker Rohrwasser will remove 'shameful' rightwing militia tattoo"

As I had hoped and a very promising sign. A direct quote from Rohrwasser, "It’s shameful that I had it on there ignorantly." Strong words.

eagle eye · 28-04-2020 9:23pm

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote:

As I had hoped and a very promising sign. A direct quote from Rohrwasser, "Itâ€™s shameful that I had it on there ignorantly." Strong words.

So he didn't know until Saturday that it wasn't at great thing to have and he's had it since he was 18.

Foxtrol · 28-04-2020 9:27pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Have I said otherwise, or have I denied saying otherwise? Show me where I've said anything about the group... because I haven't. I haven't a clue who they are.

All I've said is that I don't buy the "he's a white supremacist" angle which you and others have put forward. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his own explanation, the testimony of his teammates and his unblemished tenure on a team where his peers are the group he supposedly campaigns against (if your side of the story is to be believed)

Simple as that.

I don't know anything about the group or what they do or don't stand for. Didn't even know they existed before this and will in all likelihood forget their existence a week from now.

The fact that you admit not to knowing anything about the group and refuse to do any research on them while also running a blanket defense says a lot about where you're coming from on this.

I haven't claimed that 'he's a white supremacist', I specifically said I don't know what his opinions are, just like you don't. What I put forward that he has a tattoo prominently displayed on his arm of a group that is riddled with white supremacists, domestic terrorists, conspiracy nuts, and are so bad that the player himself now calls the association with them 'shameful'.

It is your right to believe that he decided to get a permanent tattoo on his forearm while in college and neither before or after bothered to google the group and that right up until Saturday he never heard a negative thing about the group or its members. To me that excuse doesn't seem at all credible and I would say the same thing if a player had a gang tattoo and they made that same extremely weak excuse.

AbusesToilets · 29-04-2020 10:23am

Foxtrol wrote: »

The fact that you admit not to knowing anything about the group and refuse to do any research on them while also running a blanket defense says a lot about where you're coming from on this.

I haven't claimed that 'he's a white supremacist', I specifically said I don't know what his opinions are, just like you don't. What I put forward that he has a tattoo prominently displayed on his arm of a group that is riddled with white supremacists, domestic terrorists, conspiracy nuts, and are so bad that the player himself now calls the association with them 'shameful'.

It is your right to believe that he decided to get a permanent tattoo on his forearm while in college and neither before or after bothered to google the group and that right up until Saturday he never heard a negative thing about the group or its members. To me that excuse doesn't seem at all credible and I would say the same thing if a player had a gang tattoo and they made that same extremely weak excuse.

Would you be equally concerned for black players who are members of Black Lives Matters, which is fairly vocal in expressing hateful speech towards other ethnic groups in society?

People often do things without thinking too deeply on them. This situation is much ado about nothing. Folks are happy to jump on a reason to be upset and virtue signal. Tiresome.

ELM327 · 29-04-2020 10:26am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would you be equally concerned for black players who are members of Black Lives Matters, which is fairly vocal in expressing hateful speech towards other ethnic groups in society?

People often do things without thinking too deeply on them. This situation is much ado about nothing. Folks are happy to jump on a reason to be upset and virtue signal. Tiresome.

No, you see, black lives matter and other black power/black supremacy group are allowed. You're just not allowed to be white and proud. You can only be black/ethnic

Christy42 · 29-04-2020 11:22am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would you be equally concerned for black players who are members of Black Lives Matters, which is fairly vocal in expressing hateful speech towards other ethnic groups in society?

People often do things without thinking too deeply on them. This situation is much ado about nothing. Folks are happy to jump on a reason to be upset and virtue signal. Tiresome.

This seems like a sudden switch in the argument as opposed to actually dealing with the post you quoted and instead goes for the but what about. Black Lives Matter are a very different group to the III%ers.

Not a big deal if he gets it removed. Obviously pretty thick player if he had it on there without knowing what it stood for but kickers don't need brains. Terrible draft choice for a kicker in the 5th though.

ELM327 · 29-04-2020 11:24am

Christy42 wrote: »

This seems like a sudden switch in the argument as opposed to actually dealing with the post you quoted and instead goes for the but what about. Black Lives Matter are a very different group to the III%ers.

Not a big deal if he gets it removed. Obviously pretty thick player if he had it on there without knowing what it stood for but kickers don't need brains. Terrible draft choice for a kicker in the 5th though.

As bad as Seabass by the raiders?

Christy42 · 29-04-2020 11:34am

ELM327 wrote: »

As bad as Seabass by the raiders?

I mean this guy has less of a risk of being deported before appearing on the field at least!

AbusesToilets · 29-04-2020 12:09pm

Christy42 wrote: »

This seems like a sudden switch in the argument as opposed to actually dealing with the post you quoted and instead goes for the but what about. Black Lives Matter are a very different group to the III%ers.

Not a big deal if he gets it removed. Obviously pretty thick player if he had it on there without knowing what it stood for but kickers don't need brains. Terrible draft choice for a kicker in the 5th though.

The point I was making is that folks are happy jump all over this player for associating himself with a controversial group, whilst ignoring the same action by other players/ individuals. Are you going to disavow the Patriots because of Kraft's support for Israel as well, Belichick for his friendship with Trump? Where is the moral line drawn? This whole thing is an exercise in virtue signalling imo.

I don't espouse the views expressed by threepers, and I'm hoping that this a case of ignorance on the part of the kicker, versus feigning contrition.

StringerBell · 29-04-2020 12:14pm

ELM327 wrote: »

No one was bothered when Kraft, Bill and TB12 were good mates with the Donald.

I'm bothered by that, but not exactly surprised and again not football related so I wouldn't harp on about it all the time. The kicker has just been drafted which is why its topical.

I did do a cursory glance at his social media and whether Marshall had 64 players or not there isn't a whole lot of them in his instagram account for example, I didn't do a deep dive but I did not see one photo that included any black people whatsoever.

Look, its a red flag but it doesn't have to be anything massive. He has said he is gonna get the tattoo removed and really for me thats the end of it. He has a job to do, thats what matters to me most.

Christy42 · 29-04-2020 12:27pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The point I was making is that folks are happy jump all over this player for associating himself with a controversial group, whilst ignoring the same action by other players/ individuals. Are you going to disavow the Patriots because of Kraft's support for Israel as well, Belichick for his friendship with Trump? Where is the moral line drawn? This whole thing is an exercise in virtue signalling imo.

I don't espouse the views expressed by threepers, and I'm hoping that this a case of ignorance on the part of the kicker, versus feigning contrition.

I think people are getting overly defensive over him. Why would I disavow the patriots over him, I didn't say that nor did I see anyone else say it. He absolutely has a red flag. That is largely the extent of it. He just got drafted so these things will get discussed. I think you are over egging the issues people have with him. Players have fallen in drafts for far less. Tunsil comes to mind.

His excuse was hilarious idiotic. He seems to be following through so he may well just be that dumb. People do get tattoos they don't understand meaning sandwhich in Chinese or whatever but I will happily call those people dumb as well!

Foxtrol · 29-04-2020 2:02pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would you be equally concerned for black players who are members of Black Lives Matters, which is fairly vocal in expressing hateful speech towards other ethnic groups in society?

Nice attempt at a whataboutism but in the post you quoted I stated I would say the same thing about a black player with a gang tattoo and made the same weak excuse that this lad had.

People often do things without thinking too deeply on them. This situation is much ado about nothing. Folks are happy to jump on a reason to be upset and virtue signal. Tiresome.

Are you saying the player is now virtue signalling by saying how shameful his tattoo and association with the group is? So he is an idiot for getting a tattoo without knowing what it meant and a virtue signaler?

Foxtrol · 29-04-2020 2:16pm

ELM327 wrote: »

No, you see, black lives matter and other black power/black supremacy group are allowed. You're just not allowed to be white and proud. You can only be black/ethnic

Not sure what far right media has coloured your perspective but it is some jump to call a group that is trying to highlight the issue of police brutality against the black community as a 'black supremacy group'.

eagle eye · 29-04-2020 2:24pm

Just checking out some of our other draft picks. Kyle Dugger looks really talented and you could see him all over the field on both sides of the ball. He ran a 4.49 40, played basketball to a high level in college as well as football, returned six kicks for touchdowns.
Very excited about this guy.
Afernee Jennings has the look of a Trey Flowers about him after watching loads of tape, just has that instinct and speed off the line. Even when trying to break tackles he keeps his eyes on the QB until he gets rid of the ball.
The one that excites me the most is John Uche and it's because he reminds me of Ninkovich. The fact that his former teammate(Winovich) is with us too makes me believe he is going to work out very well for us.

I have to look a bit more at the others before passing comment.

StringerBell · 29-04-2020 7:40pm

Agree Dugger looks very good, and his special team ability might come in very handy. Haven't looked into the rest too closely yet but the D is looking very good, its the offense that worries me.

Patriots all decade team is up on social media, we have had some talented guys through the roster in the last decade!

**** it I'll type it

Offense:
Brady
Develin
White
Amendola
Edelman
Solder
Mankins
Andrews
Thuney
Vollmer
Gronk
Welker

Defense:
Gilmore
Jones
Wilfork
Guy
Flowers
Butler
Ninkovich
Chung
Hightower
Mayo
McCourty
Van Noy

ST:
Ghost
Allen
Edelman
Slater

No big omission, Butler a little surprising but I guess the INT seals the inclusion, Revis maybe missed out cause of his inclusion?

el Fenomeno · 29-04-2020 7:51pm

I'd have both Talib and Revis over Butler, even accounting for Revis' short tenure here.

I also feel there's a good argument for Collins over Van Noy, but wouldn't see it as a massive snub either way.

Also, that's an all-white offense apart from White....which is funny.

StringerBell · 29-04-2020 7:55pm

Talib could have a case too, but tbh I'd rank that penalty machine Browner ahead of him in terms of influence on success

el Fenomeno · 08-05-2020 7:43pm

Some good news for those who still want to follow Tom and Gronk closely at Tampa Bay. We don't have a game kicking off at the same time as the Bucs until week 15.

Shedite27 · 11-05-2020 5:56pm

Reading about the schedule here, cool road trip this season for Patriots
Week 13 @ Los Angeles Chargers (Sun)
Week 14 @ Los Angeles Rams (Thurs)

Same stadium, practice in the sun for a week, mini bye week when ya get home. Nice way to do it

StringerBell · 11-05-2020 9:56pm

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Some good news for those who still want to follow Tom and Gronk closely at Tampa Bay. We don't have a game kicking off at the same time as the Bucs until week 15.

You mean Bucs fans? :pac:

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 10:15pm

Well I certainly won't be watching them. I refuse to watch the GOAT in another uniform, it'd hurt too much. I don't hold anything against him, he will always be my favourite player.
As for Gronk, another of my favourite players ever but this move takes a bit of the gloss off for me.

StringerBell · 12-05-2020 9:45am

Why? Doesn't really have anything to do with us. I mean its one last hurrah for him with the QB he looks up to most, who he has been with his whole career and clearly has a strong bond with. Like you I won't be going out of my way to watch them this year but it doesn't really bother me to see the two lads have one last season together, retirement is long. If Brady had stayed in NE I am sure Gronk would have come back and played for us this season. No ill will toward either of them, wish them the best once it isn't against the Pats.

Even if he had gone to a rival maybe or something I could understand but they have both left the conference entirely so just nothing there at all to take gloss off for me, I am not criticising you either just in case it comes across that way. Sport is sport, brings out unusual and often hard to explain feelings. Just curious as to what the reason would be?

ELM327 · 12-05-2020 9:46am

I'll be rooting for them unless they are playing the pats.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 12-05-2020 11:22am

ELM327 wrote: »

I'll be rooting for them unless they are playing the pats.

Exactly. Two legends who defined the Pats in the 10's. Pats come first, but can't think of a reason to not wish them well.

eagle eye · 12-05-2020 11:26am

Randall Victorious Pentagon wrote:

Exactly. Two legends who defined the Pats in the 10's. Pats come first, but can't think of a reason to not wish them well.

Brady was a superstar all through the 00's, three Superbowls and a 16-0 regular season.

Loughc · 15-06-2020 10:01am

So how is everyone feeling about Belichick's Pat's will fair this season without Brady?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 21-06-2020 10:56am

Loughc wrote: »

So how is everyone feeling about Belichick's Pat's will fair this season without Brady?

So much depends on Stidham. 8 wins max for me, but could be 5-6.
When the D played the good teams, they didn't do well (not helped by the offense getting off the field so often). Not sure how the offense will be any better this year, unless the running game gets going.

eagle eye · 21-06-2020 1:21pm

We had 11 wins and didn't make the playoffs with Matt Cassel. I think Stidham is a long way ahead of Matt Cassel.
He's an unknown because he hasn't been a starter in the NFL but I liked what I seen if him in the preseason last year and it was clear that he'd taken in a lot from Brady.
You will never know what he's like until he goes through everything a starter has to, leadership, rebounding from errors, hits, ints etc. but I've got a really good feeling. I think Belichick is a big believer in him too, seems like Brady had no choice but to go.

el Fenomeno · 22-06-2020 6:43pm

eagle eye wrote: »

We had 11 wins and didn't make the playoffs with Matt Cassel. I think Stidham is a long way ahead of Matt Cassel.
He's an unknown because he hasn't been a starter in the NFL but I liked what I seen if him in the preseason last year and it was clear that he'd taken in a lot from Brady.
You will never know what he's like until he goes through everything a starter has to, leadership, rebounding from errors, hits, ints etc. but I've got a really good feeling. I think Belichick is a big believer in him too, seems like Brady had no choice but to go.

I'd say the situation Cassell walked into (an all-time record setting 16-0 offense) isn't really comparable to what Stidham is walking into (a slightly above average offense) so it's hard to compare the 2 situations. That was also Cassell's 4th year in New England, so he had three times the experience and familiarity of how we play compared to Stidham.

eagle eye · 22-06-2020 7:10pm

el Fenomeno wrote:

I'd say the situation Cassell walked into (an all-time record setting 16-0 offense) isn't really comparable to what Stidham is walking into (a slightly above average offense) so it's hard to compare the 2 situations. That was also Cassell's 4th year in New England, so he had three times the experience and familiarity of how we play compared to Stidham.

Well the 2008 WR group had Moss and Welker but after that there wasn't much. At TE we had Watson and Thomas do nothing spectacular there either.
We'll have Edelman and then Sanu, Lee and Harry. Not as good at the top end but better after the top two. Then at TE we have to hope that Asiasi

dh1985 · 22-06-2020 10:17pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well the 2008 WR group had Moss and Welker but after that there wasn't much. At TE we had Watson and Thomas do nothing spectacular there either.
We'll have Edelman and then Sanu, Lee and Harry. Not as good at the top end but better after the top two. Then at TE we have to hope that Asiasi

Moss and Welker were two beasts. So was Edelman to be fair. But he is in the twilight of his career. The remaining guys are the guys that didn't perform all of last season. The core of the team was stronger back then also. And Cassells did a solid enough job that year.to be fair to him.
I think if the Pat's make .500 this year they will be doing ok.

eagle eye · 22-06-2020 10:20pm

dh1985 wrote:

Moss and Welker were two beasts. So was Edelman to be fair. But he is in the twilight of his career. The remaining guys are the guys that didn't perform all of last season. The core of the team was stronger back then also. And Cassells did a solid enough job that year.to be fair to him. I think if the Pat's make .500 this year they will be doing ok.

I'm expecting us to win the division. A lot will have been learned from how the offense performed last season and I expect improvement, we have a good defense.

dh1985 · 22-06-2020 10:27pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm expecting us to win the division. A lot will have been learned from how the offense performed last season and I expect improvement, we have a good defense.

I hope your right but i think the Bill's might finally have gotten their act together and pip us. Not fully sold on the defence either. When it came to the crunch last year they imploded. There is some very good operators in the defence but as an entire unit I am not entirely sure

AbusesToilets · 22-06-2020 10:32pm

They also had an incredibly soft schedule in 2008, whereas this year looks like a bear

eagle eye · 29-06-2020 10:47am

I still fully expect Stidham to be the starter. Cam Newton hasn't looked the same player for a while now.
I don't understand the move outside of it being a public relations exercise with the #blacklivesmatter and all that.

ELM327 · 29-06-2020 11:01am

I hope Cam doesnt see the field this year, whatever Stidham offers he needs to be given game time to display it and to show his learning curve.

Christy42 · 29-06-2020 11:22am

If he hasn't earned the trust in training then Stidham won't be showing the learning curve on the field.

Seems like an incredible deal for the Pats. A supercheap quality quarterback with no risk for future years in terms of dead money.

Doubtful Cam gets back to mvp form but that won't be required. Unless he still injured like he was at the start of last season the starting job is his.

eagle eye · 29-06-2020 11:24am

Lol, you've seen Cam being poor when he's not injured over the last few years and you know nothing about Stidham and you say that as if it's fact.

ELM327 · 29-06-2020 11:25am

See, we dont need "supercam" trying to run his way out of trouble and wimping out.

What we probably need is a mobile QB for training purposes. He'll run the scout team to prepare for Jackson etc.

ELM327 · 29-06-2020 11:26am

eagle eye wrote: »

Lol, you've seen Cam being poor when he's not injured over the last few years and you know nothing about Stidham and you say that as if it's fact.

I think we all need to give stidham a chance at this point. I've seen nothing positive of him but BB clearly knows more than I do about him!!

(also he's wearing the right number for a QB imo as a favre fan):D

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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