Why do people have children that they can't afford?

screamer · 21-11-2019 10:36pm

I always laugh at the chuck it all in and live in welfare brigade. Unfortunately welfare doesn’t work out well for those of us that got off our holes and worked. But and the big but here is if you never bothered your hole live your whole life on the dole, you’ll get enerything free even a house in the end. I see them driving around in Relatively new people passenger cars, waiting on houses to be completed for them, holidays abroad every year and eating out every weekend. And these are just dole scrounges with more than multiple kids who are fired into school and crèche every day. So moral of the story is sit on your hole, and the whole lot is free.

HorrorScope · 21-11-2019 10:37pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

There there child.

Prick.

GreenandRed · 21-11-2019 10:39pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

Prick.

Ted_YNWA · 21-11-2019 10:40pm

GreenandRed wrote: »

I think the figure of welfare payments she is getting is somewhere in the region of 55k a year?

That's fairly definite then. Were you queueing up to buy her particular house? Some of us are lucky enough to have kids and a house after working our arses for years and will work them for more years to pay same mortgages. It's called life and we just get on with it. If you grow up and stop the self pity you'll find you'll get a house but even getting a house isn't the be all and end all.

HorrorScope wrote: »

I’m not even going to write a reply to that condescending bull**** you wrote. There’s no self pity here.

GreenandRed wrote: »

There there child.

HorrorScope wrote: »

Prick.

Mod

Play nice guys.

Padre_Pio · 21-11-2019 10:42pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

No simply because I’m not a born and bred scumbag like she is. Not a bad life tho - she never has to work, is able to buy all sorts of extravagant items including ponies and crystal, and now has a free house

Bit like the royal family I suppose.

Princess Margaret

:pac:

GreenandRed · 21-11-2019 10:43pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Bit like the royal family I suppose.

:pac:

Probably gets her pizzas from Woking.

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2019 10:50pm

screamer wrote: »

I always laugh at the chuck it all in and live in welfare brigade. Unfortunately welfare doesn’t work out well for those of us that got off our holes and worked. But and the big but here is if you never bothered your hole live your whole life on the dole, you’ll get enerything free even a house in the end. I see them driving around in Relatively new people passenger cars, waiting on houses to be completed for them, holidays abroad every year and eating out every weekend. And these are just dole scrounges with more than multiple kids who are fired into school and crèche every day. So moral of the story is sit on your hole, and the whole lot is free.

Reads to me like the moral of that story is complain as much as you like, nobody cares, but at least you’ll have got it off your chest.

Cathartic in a way, I suppose... whatever floats your boat.

Millionaire only not · 21-11-2019 11:16pm

To be fair there’s no good blaming the people on the dole and benefits for having children !

Simply it’s the system put in front of them!

in fairness some of them have ambition to be the best , ie squeeze out as many as possible .

Mad_maxx · 21-11-2019 11:33pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

For all your moaning about welfare, would you want Margaret Cash's life?

Would you throw it all in, quit your job, have a rake of kids and live on the dole, in an estate in Tallaght with horses galloping around on the green? No you wouldn't. Not a hope. Because you know its not a nice life.

She'd die of hunger in most countries

Padre_Pio · 22-11-2019 1:08am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

She'd die of hunger in most countries

So would most of us.

Be happy we live in a fantastic first world country.

SMC92Ian · 22-11-2019 1:09am

Cause they're idiots who won't wear a Johnny.

Shady Grady · 22-11-2019 1:23am

They will keep spitting them out as long as the taxpayers will pay for them. Which your elected members seem to keep supporting.

2pacshakur · 22-11-2019 1:26am

Shady Grady wrote: »

They will keep spitting them out as long as the taxpayers will pay for them. Which your elected members seem to keep supporting.

U okay Hun?

Shady Grady · 22-11-2019 1:30am

2pacshakur wrote: »

U okay Hun?

I'm good thanks how you doing?

2pacshakur · 22-11-2019 1:41am

Shady Grady wrote: »

I'm good thanks how you doing?

Waiting to pop out me 6th child to get an even bigger house and more child support.

Shady Grady · 22-11-2019 1:59am

2pacshakur wrote: »

Waiting to pop out me 6th child to get an even bigger house and more child support.

Sadly that is what happens here and you can make light heartened of it.Travellers and those who refuse to be a part of society are awarded more benefits than those who work and contribute. Anything different you state has no bearings on the facts.

Sorry sweetheart but your government has time and tested that point.

dartboardio · 22-11-2019 2:06am

If its 'the game' or the system. Why aren't we all abusing it?

Why is it often more likely to be a lady like Margaret Cash?

No, I won't stop judging/disliking people who purposely grow up intending to sit on their hole with their hand out, then cry when their free house gets taken away from them after twenty years because they 'deserved' it

I was lucky enough to be born into a family where everyone worked full time, went to college, etc so I do the exact same.

But your family is no excuse, I have friends that went on to college and to be a contributing member of society, who's family never worked or went to college and lived in council estates all their lives.

Kk333 · 22-11-2019 2:14am

Shady Grady wrote: »

They will keep spitting them out as long as the taxpayers will pay for them. Which your elected members seem to keep supporting.

The taxes pay for all children since all parents are entitled to children's allowance. If you take children's allowance then and are against welfare, logically you are a hypocrite.

riemann · 22-11-2019 2:17am

This whole part of society has evolved now to a very important voting block. Over 1 million people recieved the Christmas bonus, sure some of them are pensioners and worthy recipients, however FFG are keen to also keep the rest onside.

Kk333 · 22-11-2019 2:23am

riemann wrote: »

This whole part of society has evolved now to a very important voting block. Over 1 million people recieved the Christmas bonus, sure some of them are pensioners and worthy recipients, however FFG are keen to also keep the rest onside.

170,000 are jobseekers. So most are worthy recipients. The rest are in country economics a drop in the ocean. Be like you and me giving a euro to a guy on the street. It wouldn't make a difference to anyone's take home pay whether they get it or not. Taxes would stay the same, so this begrudgery is just holier then thou tripe. In actual fact cutting the xmas bonus would take tens of thousands out of local economies for christmas and put pressure on charities etc.

Padre_Pio · 22-11-2019 2:23am

dartboardio wrote: »

If its 'the game' or the system. Why aren't we all abusing it?

Why is it often more likely to be a lady like Margaret Cash?

Because it's all bollox that's why.

Most of the posters here wouldn't get far if they wanted to "game the system".

They'd quit their jobs, go to the social and be told "heres your 188 quid a week, now f*ck off", "Free house? Not a chance. You get a bed in a hostel if you're lucky"

Margaret Cash might be the exception, but she's still living in a crappy 3 bed house in Tallaght with 7 kids. It's like something from Angela's Ashes. I wouldn't live there if the council paid me to and I doubt many other's would too.

We all know people who went straight on the dole after school and they're still living in the same estate doing the same sh*t now as they were 10 years ago. All this "Jetting off on foreign holidays, driving new cars" is more bollox. "Oh the travellers are driving round in 191 Transits!" Yeah, but their whole family is living in a steel box on the side of the road.

It's just an excuse to b*tch and moan and look down on people to make yourself feel better.

Shady Grady · 22-11-2019 2:25am

Kk333 wrote: »

The taxes pay for all children since all parents are entitled to children's allowance. If you take children's allowance then and are against welfare, logically you are a hypocrite.

Not so, your welfare pays so much towards each child born. So that in itself could be lucrative to a single mother in a council house who pays very low rent. Add in the father drawing dole on top of all that. They end up making more than hardworking people, for nothing.

2pacshakur · 22-11-2019 2:32am

Shady Grady wrote: »

Not so, your welfare pays so much towards each child born. So that in itself could be lucrative to a single mother in a council house who pays very low rent. Add in the father drawing dole on top of all that. They end up making more than hardworking people, for nothing.

Please dont put rent and a council house in the same sentence

Padre_Pio · 22-11-2019 2:34am

Shady Grady wrote: »

Not so, your welfare pays so much towards each child born. So that in itself could be lucrative to a single mother in a council house who pays very low rent. Add in the father drawing dole on top of all that. They end up making more than hardworking people, for nothing.

Maybe in certain circumstances, like when childcare, rent and mortgage is factored in, does a single parent on welfare come out better than a single parent in a low paid job, but for the vast vast majority, you're far better working than not. But on the whole, over your life, everyone is vastly better off working than not.

It's completely untrue to suggest otherwise.

In fairness, there are plenty of educated women who leave the workforce to mind children and claim benefits anyways, so it's a moot point regardless.

Kk333 · 22-11-2019 2:50am

Shady Grady wrote: »

Not so, your welfare pays so much towards each child born. So that in itself could be lucrative to a single mother in a council house who pays very low rent. Add in the father drawing dole on top of all that. They end up making more than hardworking people, for nothing.

You miss my point. If you are against social welfare, while at the same time claim, or have claimed children's allowance you are a hypocrite as it is a social welfare payment.

Kk333 · 22-11-2019 2:55am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Because it's all bollox that's why.

Most of the posters here wouldn't get far if they wanted to "game the system".

They'd quit their jobs, go to the social and be told "heres your 188 quid a week, now f*ck off", "Free house? Not a chance. You get a bed in a hostel if you're lucky"

Margaret Cash might be the exception, but she's still living in a crappy 3 bed house in Tallaght with 7 kids. It's like something from Angela's Ashes. I wouldn't live there if the council paid me to and I doubt many other's would too.

We all know people who went straight on the dole after school and they're still living in the same estate doing the same sh*t now as they were 10 years ago. All this "Jetting off on foreign holidays, driving new cars" is more bollox. "Oh the travellers are driving round in 191 Transits!" Yeah, but their whole family is living in a steel box on the side of the road.

It's just an excuse to b*tch and moan and look down on people to make yourself feel better.

Best post iv seen here. Ireland is a nation of moaners and begrudgers.

ILoveYourVibes · 22-11-2019 6:00am

Because life and the universe does not follow your ****ty rules.

Ted_YNWA · 22-11-2019 6:22am

Mod

The whole system of Social Welfare does needs an overhaul. Can you please refer to all parties involved from Govt agencies to recipients in a civil manner.

Post removed.

12gauge dave · 22-11-2019 6:24am

Why can't people afford to have children?

Millionaire only not · 22-11-2019 7:56am

Kk333 wrote: »

Best post iv seen here. Ireland is a nation of moaners and begrudgers.

Yes agree , would u really do it 6/7 kids all different fathers there even different colours nowadays !
The thought of it alone ,some of these are on first name basis with maternity staff in the hospitals !
Travellers are the worst, trailer full of kids and they still manage to have there adult play !

Wanderer78 · 22-11-2019 7:59am

12gauge dave wrote:

Why can't people afford to have children?

When we all get our trickle down cheques from rising asset prices, we ll be able to populate the planet at will

22-11-2019 8:09am

12gauge dave wrote: »

Why can't people afford to have children?

Because they're being idiotic with their lives. I've had enough with this misplaced sympathy and pandering to laziness.

There are heaps of opportunities in Ireland to get an education or upskill to set yourself up for a different profession. There are jobs in Ireland for those who want to avail of them... it's just that many people don't have the skillset for them. Whose fault is that? Theirs.

Or they can go abroad for a few years, get some experience, work, save some money, and then return to have a family. There are loads of countries both within Europe and outside of it which are far less costly, along with educational programs as part of the EU which can be accessed. Hell, they could get a job abroad, and pay for their own education in an area that would employ them for the next few decades.

The fact is that most of the people involved don't want to change the lives they have. It might be a crappy life, but it's the one they have, and By God! they're not going to be forced to change due to minor issue like a lack of decent income.

I originally left Ireland because I couldn't get work during the recession, and I needed to pay my mortgage or pay outstanding debts. I left for Australia, and since moved to China because there's more work here, and it's a far cheaper standard of living. Since then, I've worked, gained a MBA, and a degree in Psychology. I've worked in a variety of jobs, and I could start a family now if I wanted to. I've paid off the majority of my mortgage, and have managed to create actual savings, which would have been a struggle to do during the recession and afterwards. I return to Ireland a few times a year to be with my family, but it makes financial sense to live in China where I can afford a decent lifestyle while saving money too.

I really wish Irish people would take a harder stance towards people who refuse to change. You can provide heaps of educational programs (admittedly many of which are currently useless or outdated) but they won't be used until society tells these people that there's no more handouts. Get out the cattle prods and push people into upskilling. Tie their benefits to their ability to succeed... if they fail, put them on the minimum benefits available... and if they continue to have children, take the children away from them without providing the parents any further benefits. There's plenty of people in Ireland and Europe who want to adopt children... give the children the chance to grow up in a family that can actually provide for them rather than it being the State.

A welfare state breeds people who will depend on that very welfare existence.

Deebles McBeebles · 22-11-2019 9:41am

Kk333 wrote: »

Ireland is a nation of moaners and begrudgers.

...he moaned.

Mad_maxx · 22-11-2019 9:54am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

So would most of us.

Be happy we live in a fantastic first world country.

Some of us except more from people, stop wiping the arse of tinker mums, allow them to make mistakes and successes

The One Doctor · 22-11-2019 11:18am

Another Journal.ie hack looking for an article idea. Come on lads, you can do better. Perhaps go work for Irish Water?

blueshade · 22-11-2019 11:43am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Because it's all bollox that's why.

Most of the posters here wouldn't get far if they wanted to "game the system".

They'd quit their jobs, go to the social and be told "heres your 188 quid a week, now f*ck off", "Free house? Not a chance. You get a bed in a hostel if you're lucky"

Margaret Cash might be the exception, but she's still living in a crappy 3 bed house in Tallaght with 7 kids. It's like something from Angela's Ashes. I wouldn't live there if the council paid me to and I doubt many other's would too.

We all know people who went straight on the dole after school and they're still living in the same estate doing the same sh*t now as they were 10 years ago. All this "Jetting off on foreign holidays, driving new cars" is more bollox. "Oh the travellers are driving round in 191 Transits!" Yeah, but their whole family is living in a steel box on the side of the road.

It's just an excuse to b*tch and moan and look down on people to make yourself feel better.

She has a horse in the garden too, no word of a lie. Margaret isn't short of cash, no pun intended. She said as much herself and her mother was no fool she made sure the big chunk of money she left Margaret when she reaches an age where the means test won't affect her benefit payments. There's a local jewelers closing down near me, they did very well from the Traveling community in Clare catering to the huge crystal ornaments and the china knick knacks that they love.

They're doing offers on crystal at the moment and the local Travelers are tripping over each other trying to stock up on stuff. How does someone on 200 euro a week afford to be buying 100 euro a pop crystal photo frames and figurines that start at 200 euro? Nobody is looking down on people, people are sick and tired of paying for these lazy bastards. Work should pay, benefits should be the bare minimum.

She's far from done with the childbearing and the media were complicit in hiding the fact that her husband is a violent repeat offender who was in prison at the time she first appeared on the scene. Lovely family, imagine them rocking up in your street and then honestly tell us you'd have no problem with it. The only people who don't mind them living near them is our President and several of his challengers.

Shady Grady · 22-11-2019 11:45am

Kk333 wrote: »

You miss my point. If you are against social welfare, while at the same time claim, or have claimed children's allowance you are a hypocrite as it is a social welfare payment.

I've never used your welfare system while living here nor do I need/want to.I worked all my life, lived within my means, and raised my children without expecting someone else to pay for it.

Idbatterim · 22-11-2019 2:08pm

Bump!

LuasSimon · 22-11-2019 4:07pm

Strumms wrote: »

People who have amassed serious wealth often do so through hard work. Almost always in fact.

If we are in a situation where we are penalizing and even more heavily taxing people who have wealth to ‘pay’ for people who don’t want to get out of bed and off their arses and directly contribute to society we are not giving any incentive for people to take responsibility for their own lives and wellbeing...

Social welfare isn’t going to bring you an excellent quality of life no, it’s meant as a stopgap to help people who are between jobs for whatever reason, people who have health issues, left or been forced out of jobs etc....

Social welfare is not designed or should it be as a lifestyle enabler, not too many people are jumping on planes to spend a five star week in Dubai off what they get on the dole.... if they want that lifestyle do they say... “ hey, there should be a holiday fund where I can reap the benefits of sitting on my hole and other people working hard to pay for my lifestyle “ OR... “this actually sucks, I’m going to get up, retrain, get a job, work hard, contribute and in a couple of years I’m going to be paying for my own holidays, nice car, own apartment AND making my own tax contributions that help pay for the running of the state and for the wellbeing financially and personally of people who fell on hard times like I did...

Mightn’t get rich off the dole but you have a good base income for doing nothing especially when you have 5 or 6 kids and a practically free house.
Small bit of drug dealing and shop lifting and your way better off financially than the couple next door going to work every day .

GreenandRed · 22-11-2019 5:05pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Mightn’t get rich off the dole but you have a good base income for doing nothing especially when you have 5 or 6 kids and a practically free house.
Small bit of drug dealing and shop lifting and your way better off financially than the couple next door going to work every day .

What a life to aspire to! Even in a practically free house parenting 5 or 6 kids is a fulltime job in itself. Not sure now but there used to be a fair few students signing on and going to college. I'm sure there's plenty of dole scroungers dealing, thieving, scamming etc but it's difficult to generalise because that might be racist, discriminatory, defamatory, whatever the November 2019 term is for offending some people :eek:

But try signing on for a few months and week by week yur self respect dwindles and your head turns to mush, particularly if the Adrian Kennedy line is too busy. As bad as your current job might be, it's better than no job. Looking at 4 walls will eventually send you into depression. Plenty, for sure, are living it up on the dole, but plenty are having a miserable existence. As them Python lads used to say try looking on the bright side.

LirW · 22-11-2019 5:48pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Mightn’t get rich off the dole but you have a good base income for doing nothing especially when you have 5 or 6 kids and a practically free house.
Small bit of drug dealing and shop lifting and your way better off financially than the couple next door going to work every day .

That sounds grand for as long as they are staying in their tiny little environment. The people working have options, they have a world full of opportunities and have options of relocating, living abroad for a while and stay flexible. With that you can broaden your horizon.
If full-time dolers relocate or try to go abroad they are nothing and have nothing. Criminal convictions prevent them from getting visas and moving to another EU country local criminals and welfare offices will quickly show them where to go.

Grand if they're comfortable with that but sounds pretty sh*t to me honestly.

As long as they're getting away with it it'll stay like that, there are no consequences.

Kk333 · 22-11-2019 6:55pm

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Yes agree , would u really do it 6/7 kids all different fathers there even different colours nowadays !
The thought of it alone ,some of these are on first name basis with maternity staff in the hospitals !
Travellers are the worst, trailer full of kids and they still manage to have there adult play !

Ok for one thing your reply is racist on two counts. Secondly it doesn't make a difference to my life. My taxes would be the same regardless. We are paying high taxes because of the top 1% not the bottom.

22-11-2019 7:10pm

LirW wrote: »

That sounds grand for as long as they are staying in their tiny little environment. The people working have options, they have a world full of opportunities and have options of relocating, living abroad for a while and stay flexible. With that you can broaden your horizon.

For four months, before I left Ireland, I was on jobseekers. Know what I did? I saved as much as I could beyond the essentials. I didn't go out for a beer, or get a coffee. Hell, I pretty much gave up shopping for any kind of luxury. And I saved enough money for my flights and the cost of a Visa to Australia. Landed there with sweet fcuk all beyond a few nights in a hostel and food. Took the first job I could find which would pay cash up front. Cleaning toilets in a dingy nightclub. Then I found a slightly better job, and then another better job, eventually being able afford waiting a month for a salary payment so I could get a professional jobs.

Everyone has bloody options if they're already on welfare. I could understand if they were somehow incapable of gaining any benefits but I was on the flat basic of jobseekers and I managed to get out. People provide too many excuses for those who are on the "bottom".

If full-time dolers relocate or try to go abroad they are nothing and have nothing. Criminal convictions prevent them from getting visas and moving to another EU country local criminals and welfare offices will quickly show them where to go.

True enough, a criminal record will stop them... but how many of the people around don't have one? At least start with them.

Then we can figure out someway to provide options with those with a record... and frankly, I'm a bit vague of the legalities of getting a visa with a criminal record.. I'm guessing there must be some loopholes else how do continental criminals manage to get around? I've encountered Americans in Asia and other countries who claimed to have a criminal past, so while they might be lying, I'm guessing some of them were being truthful. There must be some loopholes somewhere.

As long as they're getting away with it it'll stay like that, there are no consequences.

Exactly. Just as they're unwilling to even seriously consider other options because they know the State will provide for them.

22-11-2019 7:12pm

Kk333 wrote: »

Ok for one thing your reply is racist on two counts. Secondly it doesn't make a difference to my life. My taxes would be the same regardless. We are paying high taxes because of the top 1% not the bottom.

Explain that one, please. I can't quite wrap my head around it. Surely, the top 1% essentially provide for themselves?

riclad · 22-11-2019 10:33pm

quote ; If full-time dolers relocate or try to go abroad they are nothing and have nothing. Criminal convictions prevent them from getting visas and moving to another EU country local criminals and welfare offices will quickly show them where to go.

You are very cynical, if you assume that everyone on the dole is some type of minor criminal .
There,s probably alot of people on the dole in rural area,s where jobs are
not easy to find.

Millionaire only not · 22-11-2019 10:34pm

Kk333 wrote: »

Ok for one thing your reply is racist on two counts. Secondly it doesn't make a difference to my life. My taxes would be the same regardless. We are paying high taxes because of the top 1% not the bottom.

How is it racist?
Read it again it’s an observation not a statement on race religion or creed !

HorrorScope · 22-11-2019 10:51pm

Kk333 wrote: »

Ok for one thing your reply is racist on two counts. Secondly it doesn't make a difference to my life. My taxes would be the same regardless. We are paying high taxes because of the top 1% not the bottom.

I don’t see anything “wacist” in that post at all.

Why do people have children that they can't afford?

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