Big Girl, etc.

Victor · 10-11-2019 4:53pm #1

For a few years, I've had qualms with phrases will 'big girl', 'good boy', 'that's a lovely outfit', 'I like your hair', etc. I felt they were heightist (discrimination against people based on out-of-range heights) and they associated merit / demerit with things that (especially younger) children can't control. 'Good boy' is also something that people use with dogs. Of course, one can still say 'well done', 'that's great' or 'you've brushed your hair very well and it looks nice'.

My brother and his wife noticed something with their 3 year old. While she understands breastfeeding, her doll always get fed with a bottle and never gets breastfed. So we (I was visiting and prompted the questions) asked a few questions. She thinks that in the years to come, she will become a 'big girl', and never a 'woman', 'lady' or 'mammy' (we explained that becoming a mammy was up to her).

Someone here previously mentioned that their 6 year old became very worried at the thought of his parents dying (child and both parents healthy) and that there would be nobody to look after the child when the parents died. The child couldn't appreciate that they would have his own job / income.

Yes, I appreciate she is only 3, but perhaps people should use more thoughtful and less stereotypical phrases.

PS I also found myself referring a Duplo dog as 'he'.

splinter65 · 10-11-2019 5:26pm

This is so depressing.....is there any chance at all that you’re joking?

Sardonicat · 10-11-2019 5:36pm

Three year olds cant really project into the future or envision themselves as adults. They don't realise that they will grow into an adult.

Most kids at around 5/6 are starting to understand that we are mortal and many of them go through a period of anxiety about their parents.

Both the situations you describe are perfectly normal attitudes and behaviours for children their ages.

shesty · 10-11-2019 6:16pm

I think you may be over analysing OP.The two situations you describe are normal.But I will say myself that I am conscious of disliking phrases such as 'be a big girl' or 'aren"t you such a big girl/boy for doing XYZ' myself....I don't know, it just feels like you are kind of belittling a child or something.I would phrase things slightly differently myself.And I also admit to being a bit sensitive to overpraising girls for their 'pretty dresses' or boys for being 'big and strong' or whatever (I have in-laws who are way OTT on the 'pretty dresses' thing)but I am aware that is partly because of my own career choice being in a very male industry and my own subsequent view of the world becoming somewhat more feminist as a result...I don"t want my girls to feel their clothes define them, while people are telling my baby boy 'look at the handsome little prince'.I tend to keep my opinions to myself as these are normally one-off occurences.
People say things without even realising them, all you can do as a parent is lead by example.

Victor · 10-11-2019 6:47pm

splinter65 wrote: »

This is so depressing.....is there any chance at all that you’re joking?

No, I'm trying to offer an insight into the minds of children and the misunderstandings / miscomprehensions that they have. If that helps someone, then the thread has succeeded.

TheValeyard · 10-11-2019 6:52pm

Purple Mountain wrote: »

This is too heavy for a Sunday evening.

Or any evening. Or a morning. Or an afternoon.

cannotlogin · 10-11-2019 6:55pm

My brain would explode if I overanalysised like that!

I was called a big girl as a child (despite always being tiny) and was bottlefed and turned out just fine. :-)

tom1ie · 10-11-2019 7:09pm

Victor wrote: »

For a few years, I've had qualms with phrases will 'big girl', 'good boy', 'that's a lovely outfit', 'I like your hair', etc. I felt they were heightist (discrimination against people based on out-of-range heights) and they associated merit / demerit with things that (especially younger) children can't control. 'Good boy' is also something that people use with dogs. Of course, one can still say 'well done', 'that's great' or 'you've brushed your hair very well and it looks nice'.

My brother and his wife noticed something with their 3 year old. While she understands breastfeeding, her doll always get fed with a bottle and never gets breastfed. So we (I was visiting and prompted the questions) asked a few questions. She thinks that in the years to come, she will become a 'big girl', and never a 'woman', 'lady' or 'mammy' (we explained that becoming a mammy was up to her).

Someone here previously mentioned that their 6 year old became very worried at the thought of his parents dying (child and both parents healthy) and that there would be nobody to look after the child when the parents died. The child couldn't appreciate that they would have his own job / income.

Yes, I appreciate she is only 3, but perhaps people should use more thoughtful and less stereotypical phrases.

PS I also found myself referring a Duplo dog as 'he'.

They're children. They need to know when they've done something well or when they've done something wrong.
They're not born knowing this.
They are not young adults.
It's the parents jobs to install the ideas of right and wrong in the child, and one way to do this is to encourage them when they've done something right, "good girl/boy- your a big girl/boy now aren't you"
And then to let them know when they've done something unacceptable.

When you say people should use more thoughtfull and less stereotypical phrases, what are you referring to?
The height? As in your a big girl now.....
The gender classification? Boy/girl?

Heckler · 10-11-2019 7:14pm

Victor wrote: »

For a few years, I've had qualms with phrases will 'big girl', 'good boy', 'that's a lovely outfit', 'I like your hair', etc. I felt they were heightist (discrimination against people based on out-of-range heights) and they associated merit / demerit with things that (especially younger) children can't control. 'Good boy' is also something that people use with dogs. Of course, one can still say 'well done', 'that's great' or 'you've brushed your hair very well and it looks nice'.

My brother and his wife noticed something with their 3 year old. While she understands breastfeeding, her doll always get fed with a bottle and never gets breastfed. So we (I was visiting and prompted the questions) asked a few questions. She thinks that in the years to come, she will become a 'big girl', and never a 'woman', 'lady' or 'mammy' (we explained that becoming a mammy was up to her).

Someone here previously mentioned that their 6 year old became very worried at the thought of his parents dying (child and both parents healthy) and that there would be nobody to look after the child when the parents died. The child couldn't appreciate that they would have his own job / income.

Yes, I appreciate she is only 3, but perhaps people should use more thoughtful and less stereotypical phrases.

PS I also found myself referring a Duplo dog as 'he'.

Either top class wumming or you need mental health. With your post count......Get help.

farmchoice · 11-11-2019 12:39pm

Victor wrote: »

No, I'm trying to offer an insight into the minds of children and the misunderstandings / miscomprehensions that they have. If that helps someone, then the thread has succeeded.

do you mind if i ask, do you have children yourself?

splinter65 · 11-11-2019 12:53pm

quote="Victor;111735538"]No, I'm trying to offer an insight into the minds of children and the misunderstandings / miscomprehensions that they have. If that helps someone, then the thread has succeeded.[/quote]

It’s ludicrous. A child of 3 isn’t displaying ambition to be a mother or aspiring to breast feed and be a “woman” and you see this as a cause for concern somehow.
A child of 3.
That’s not a miscomprehension or a misunderstanding. That’s a 3 year old behaving normally.
There’s cause for concern ok but not for the child I’m afraid.

Neyite · 11-11-2019 5:01pm

My son has no concept of what becoming an adult means beyond what he sees in the home. He might ask me if I'll be a granny someday but not make the connection that in order for me to become one, he will need to have a baby with a wife or a girlfriend and then he's all 'ewwww no!"

. He's seven.

I became much more aware of gendered stereotypes though when I had my baby, and it's one of those things that when you see it, it's almost like you can't unsee it.

Did you see this clip of a BBC (I think ) programme. It's very interesting - they swapped the clothes of babies and toddlers so boys were wearing girl clothes and girls were put in boy clothes and had various adults interact with them and found that they played very differently with the babies based on what gender they believed them to be. I'm sure most adults would speak to boys and girls differently too - such as telling a boy he looks smart while being more likely to tell a girl in the same situation they look pretty.

mariaalice · 12-11-2019 10:05am

Only slightly related, one of my sisters would not let anyone tell her daughter that she was pretty because of she wanted her to be praised for effort and skills not her looks. I thought it was a bit strange at the time but the child is now an adult in her twenties and very grounded, normal and has a great relationship with her mother.

shesty · 12-11-2019 11:04am

mariaalice wrote: »

Only slightly related, one of my sisters would not let anyone tell her daughter that she was pretty because of she wanted her to be praised for effort and skills not her looks. I thought it was a bit strange at the time but the child is now an adult in her twenties and very grounded, normal and has a great relationship with her mother.

It's only when you have daughters that you realise how much stereotyping is thrown at kids from birth.Right down to silly stuff like clothes in shops....boys get red, blue, orange, green, black, brown, loads of colours.....girls get pink and purple.And some white.With bunnies and sparkles and flowers.And then they turn 4 or 5 and clothes become mini teen clothes...mini skirts, crop tops, and other clothes in synthetic material that personally I find completely unsuitable.You have to go out of your way to find other colours and materials that let them just be kids and not mini 15 year olds.And don't even get started on TV - ads for girls toys are sparkles and rainbows,dolls and animals, jewellery-boys get everything else.It is really wrong when you hear your three year old saying things like only boys wear trousers, or girls can't play with a tool set.It's all around them and we are so inured to it that we don't notice anymore.

I know I get annoyed as I said before partly because of my own career choice and how that has shaped my views.But yes, I would also prefer if people praised my daughters for their efforts and achievements and not the dress they chose that morning.

lawred2 · 12-11-2019 11:07am

shesty wrote: »

It's only when you have daughters that you realise how much stereotyping is thrown at kids from birth.Right down to silly stuff like clothes in shops....boys get red, blue, orange, green, black, brown, loads of colours.....girls get pink and purple.And some white.With bunnies and sparkles and flowers.And then they turn 4 or 5 and clothes become mini teen clothes...mini skirts, crop tops, and other clothes in synthetic material that personally I find completely unsuitable.You have to go out of your way to find other colours and materials that let them just be kids and not mini 15 year olds.And don't even get started on TV - ads for girls toys are sparkles and rainbows,dolls and animals, jewellery-boys get everything else.It is really wrong when you hear your three year old saying things like only boys wear trousers, or girls can't play with a tool set.It's all around them and we are so inured to it that we don't notice anymore.

I know I get annoyed as I said before partly because of my own career choice and how that has shaped my views.But yes, I would also prefer if people praised my daughters for their efforts and achievements and not the dress they chose that morning.

Are you claiming that it's an either or situation? that people only think to comment on the dress and never the efforts and achievements? Can it not be both?

lawred2 · 12-11-2019 11:08am

mariaalice wrote: »

Only slightly related, one of my sisters would not let anyone tell her daughter that she was pretty because of she wanted her to be praised for effort and skills not her looks. I thought it was a bit strange at the time but the child is now an adult in her twenties and very grounded, normal and has a great relationship with her mother.

correlation does not equal causation

AirAmp2019 · 12-11-2019 11:09am

OP - there are some great books that help around gender and people dying on myhighershelf.com/

I think people applying gender so heavily will fade out over time. Just 20 years ago, it was always a case of being careful to use gender properly and not say "it" when referring to a person, rather using "she" or "he" correctly, so its a learned behaviour that will take time to change.

As previous posters said, advertisement has a lot to answer for too. I wouldn't worry too much about what other people around you are doing, you can only influence your own actions and the actions of your own children and ensure they are strong characters by not being too influenced by what others are doing.

drunkmonkey · 12-11-2019 11:15am

Pretty simple gender bias in our house, my 2yr old daughter has two bigger brothers not much older, Monday to Friday she's dressed in their old clothes jeans, Batman t-shirts etc. Then mammy get hold of her at the weekend and suddenly she's all dressed in pink dresses and unicorn prints.
So yea you have this little princess thing going on but it's coming from women and being enforced by women.

Neyite · 12-11-2019 12:51pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Are you claiming that it's an either or situation? that people only think to comment on the dress and never the efforts and achievements? Can it not be both?

Even if you try to modify gender stereotypes and keep your house as gender neutral as you can once they get to school you can see the influence creep in from all sorts of angles like their friends or their teachers. We had a toy kitchen. He liked my little pony stuff. But also dinosaurs and cars. Now he's at a school where only boys get invited to boys parties and the girls get invited to girls parties and it's a ridiculous rule that everyone local follows.

farmchoice · 12-11-2019 12:59pm

Neyite wrote: »

Even if you try to modify gender stereotypes and keep your house as gender neutral as you can once they get to school you can see the influence creep in from all sorts of angles like their friends or their teachers. We had a toy kitchen. He liked my little pony stuff. But also dinosaurs and cars. Now he's at a school where only boys get invited to boys parties and the girls get invited to girls parties and it's a ridiculous rule that everyone local follows.

the rule around here is no invitations will be given out in school unless you invite either the entire class or for a girl to invite all the girls and for a boy to invite all the boys. its to stop individual kids not being invited but at the same time to allow the patents to host a party that does not involve inviting 30 kids.

personally i think its the best solution to a tricky problem.

RocketRaccoon · 12-11-2019 1:02pm

Why are posts being deleted from this thread with no explanation?

12-11-2019 1:06pm

I would be absolutely shocked if this thread was actually for real.

I, for my own sanity's sake, refuse to believe that people actually think like the OP states.

If it was true.... jesus wept.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 12-11-2019 1:08pm

It's Victor. Look at his post count, most of it is drivel. Just like this thread.

lawred2 · 12-11-2019 1:10pm

Neyite wrote: »

Even if you try to modify gender stereotypes and keep your house as gender neutral as you can once they get to school you can see the influence creep in from all sorts of angles like their friends or their teachers. We had a toy kitchen. He liked my little pony stuff. But also dinosaurs and cars. Now he's at a school where only boys get invited to boys parties and the girls get invited to girls parties and it's a ridiculous rule that everyone local follows.

Actually the boy party/girl party thing is something I see with our two young lads.. and I had the same bemusement when we were organising one for our young lad a couple of weeks ago. Missus said the invites were just for the boys.. I queried it

And the real reason behind it, where we are, is simply cost... the kids are all having playcentre parties - and the mums all agreed in their class whatsapp groups that inviting over 30 kids to parties was just too costly.. school has a totally understandable policy that they will facilitate party invites only in these three circumstances

the entire class
all the boys
all the girls

otherwise the party is a private matter

so the mums have decided that parties are all girls or all boys..

sucks but there you go...

lawred2 · 12-11-2019 1:11pm

farmchoice wrote: »

the rule around here is no invitations will be given out in school unless you invite either the entire class or for a girl to invite all the girls and for a boy to invite all the boys. its to stop individual kids not being invited but at the same time to allow the patents to host a party that does not involve inviting 30 kids.

personally i think its the best solution to a tricky problem.

you summarised it quicker than I did

maybe our kids go to the same school

bladespin · 12-11-2019 1:15pm

So proud of my eldest lad, he's a good boy, daddy's little man, I showed him this thread and he said - 'Oh FFS', I tutted but feel I've done a great job.

lawred2 · 12-11-2019 1:16pm

bladespin wrote: »

So proud of my eldest lad, he's a good boy, daddy's little man, I showed him this thread and he said - 'Oh FFS', I tutted but feel I've done a great job.

Mango Joe · 12-11-2019 1:26pm

I saw a thread on Reddit yesterday where a 19 yr old waitress spoke to a 3 yr old child at the restaurant table she was managing about whether the child could have a lollipop.

So she says something like "Oh you can have a lolly if Daddy says you can"

- This incited a frenzied reaction from the mans wife who screamed at the waitress did she just call her husband Daddy?!?! Before calling her a slut, formally complained to the Restaurants management etc

The opening post here reminds me of this as all of the lines between rationale, logic and sensibility have been blurred into an irritating mess.

Young childrens psyches, outlooks and final mental states in adulthood are not set in an instant during one event, they're shaped and moulded very, very gradually over a long (and hopefully happy) childhood, under the benevolent eye of their parent or guardian.

Midster · 12-11-2019 1:37pm

For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.

Neyite · 12-11-2019 1:38pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Why are posts being deleted from this thread with no explanation?

I deleted posts from people like yourself who have no interest in the discussion and haven't added anything except to disrupt the discussion.

12-11-2019 1:43pm

Neyite wrote: »

found that they played very differently with the babies based on what gender they believed them to be.

shesty wrote: »

three year old saying things like only boys wear trousers, or girls can't play with a tool set.

I have tried hard not to fall into that myself with my own kids. I try to do exactly the same things with all of them as each other. Regardless of whether they are stereotypically boy things girl things or neutral things.

Of course that is guided a little by the kids themselves. I am not going to force them to do certain things just because a sibling did it. I make sure they try everything and engage a little - and I am guided by them as to what they are interested in revisiting after that.

Generally though I have noticed little difference between them so far. And I am just as likely to be found in the kitchen baking cookies with my 9 year old daughter as I am to be out in the shed showing her how to wire things or down with a friend in the midlands who teaches me and her how to shoot rifles. And I will do all of the above with my 5 year old boy over the next 4 years too.

It is fun when a grown man can not wire a plug in their house and I get to ask them if they would like me or my little daughter to do it for them

Neyite · 12-11-2019 1:53pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Actually the boy party/girl party thing is something I see with our two young lads.. and I had the same bemusement when we were organising one for our young lad a couple of weeks ago. Missus said the invites were just for the boys.. I queried it

And the real reason behind it, where we are, is simply cost... the kids are all having playcentre parties - and the mums all agreed in their class whatsapp groups that inviting over 30 kids to parties was just too costly.. school has a totally understandable policy that they will facilitate party invites only in these three circumstances

the entire class
all the boys
all the girls

otherwise the party is a private matter

so the mums have decided that parties are all girls or all boys..

sucks but there you go...

We've a small class size so it's not that. In infants they all got invited but I was told the gender division got instigated a few years ago by a local mum who only had boys so "wouldn't know what to do with girls at a party".

She omitted all the girls then other parents planning their respective parties followed suit. I'm past the party stage now as the young guy prefers a day out with his two besties rather than a party, but it's mad how one woman's gender bias has reverberated around the neighbourhood and entire school.

AulWan · 12-11-2019 1:56pm

Very interesting website below.

www.pinkstinks.org

My daughter hated pink. Not kidding. I painted her bedroom pink once, and she refused to sleep in it until I repainted it (yellow).

Finding clothes was not always easy.

12-11-2019 2:01pm

Victor wrote: »

My brother and his wife noticed something with their 3 year old. While she understands breastfeeding, her doll always get fed with a bottle and never gets breastfed.

I do not think there is much complex going on there. Children tend to mimic what they see. Bottle feeding is something we see in the media and around us. Breast feeding not so much - for whatever reasons people have an issue with it.

I have seen some children doing the breast feeding with their dolls. I think it is rare solely because they see less of it. But there is also the issue the children lack the requisite protrusions shall we say. They might have nipples but they do not have breasts. And children tend to work with what they have.

So I would not read too much into it - and certainly not about a child's ability to envision themselves as a grown up. I would say it is rare it has anything to do with that.

Victor wrote: »

Yes, I appreciate she is only 3, but perhaps people should use more thoughtful and less stereotypical phrases.

I see no reason to be worried about those phrases. If you are using one kind of phrase to the exclusion of others then by all means worry about that. If you are giving a child a sense of value based only on their appearance that is probably not great. But praise and guidance is not mutually exclusive you can include it in a useful whole - rather than take the scalpel and cut some stuff out entirely.

I think for me an issue worth thinking about more than then one you raised - is that of praise and responses in neutral or even failure situations. Rather than lavish praise and congratulations on a child solely when they do something great or look great or the like - I also try to become engaged and energetic and supportive and upbeat and excited about situations less positive for them.

Errors and failures are a great example. When something they are doing or working on goes wrong I try to jump in and take a "Well what can we learn from this situation" approach or "Ok this has not gone the direction you want - so what can we make out of it now?". I think I instil in them a strong sense that a failure or less than ideal situation is always a learning opportunity a growing opportunity or a chance to shoot off in a new direction.

Coupled with then later returning to the thing they failed at later and trying it again and getting there in the end - I think it gives a useful overall effect on the child than merely praising the good and the pretty and the successful.

I see so many children working on something and flinging it down in tears and frustration when it is not working and giving up on it and storming off. And the awful platitudes some parents then use to cheer the kid up again - usually in the form of sugary food. Whereas I think you can bring children to a place when it goes wrong they start saying things like "What can I do with this now instead" or "Where did it start going wrong - I will get it next time!" and trying again.

I also try not to praise just for praise sake. I have never at all bought into this thing of giving trophies and medals to people just for taking part for example. The idea that the best winners and the worst losers and everyone in between get the same medal just for showing up - has never really seemed a useful move to me. Though I am sure the idea comes from a good place and is well intentioned.

Midster · 12-11-2019 2:06pm

For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.

sbsquarepants · 12-11-2019 2:17pm

AulWan wrote: »

Very interesting website below.

www.pinkstinks.org

My daughter hated pink. Not kidding. I painted her bedroom pink once, and she refused to sleep in it until I repainted it (yellow).

Finding clothes was not always easy.

My daughter (6) refuses point blank to wear "girl" clothes full stop. She was always more interested in more boyish toys and so on. I just leave her be, what's the harm. There's not a snowballs chance she'd wear pink, or sleep in a pink room either:D:D

mordeith · 12-11-2019 2:26pm

My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

tom1ie · 12-11-2019 2:29pm

Midster wrote: »

For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.

Exactly. Give them praise and encouragement for doing something correct, and discipline them appropriately when they do something wrong.
Boundaries are as important as encouragement and praise.

sbsquarepants · 12-11-2019 2:30pm

mordeith wrote: »

My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

I think the best thing you can teach your kids is to just not be an arsehole, regardless of anything else. Think of how much better the world would be if all the arseholes just dissapeared!

Cabaal · 12-11-2019 2:56pm

mordeith wrote: »

My youngest fella loves pink. He also loves typically 'boy' things. All this gender stuff is nonsense (I mean the stereotypes and the gender neutral brigade). Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

Funny thing is, historically pink is a boys color.

Go back in history and red was seen as a man's uniform in the British Empire (military uniform), so pink was seen as a boys color as a natural extension of that.

mordeith wrote: »

Just raise your kids to be confident, good people who don't fall apart at hearing a good joke.

...and not to fall apart and call people snowflakes because another person has a different viewpoint to you

Neyite · 12-11-2019 3:16pm

Midster wrote: »

For heavens sake!!!! Stop being such a snowflake!!!

All kids really want is guidance and praise, it really doesn’t matter in what form it comes, fact every parent is different is what makes us all different.

There seems to be a great push these days to push parents into all being the same, all treating there kids the same. I have to be honest, it makes me feel sick inside.

I haven't experienced any pushing towards conformity at all. We guide our child the way that we feel suits us and while there's a few excellent parents in our families that have trod the path ahead of us who are great for bouncing questions off regarding whatever milestone or issue that comes up, we ultimately do what we feel is best.

But recognising that the way we speak to our children matters isn't being snowflakey. The way that we might have an inbuilt unconscious gender bias based on how we were reared can rub off - and I see it amongst other parents as well. Someone on my facebook shared a meme once that said "the way you speak to your child becomes their inner voice" and while I rolled my eyes a bit at it, I recognised a bit of truth in it based on my own experiences so I try to keep it in mind.

Midster · 12-11-2019 3:32pm

Neyite wrote: »

I haven't experienced any pushing towards conformity at all. We guide our child the way that we feel suits us and while there's a few excellent parents in our families that have trod the path ahead of us who are great for bouncing questions off regarding whatever milestone or issue that comes up, we ultimately do what we feel is best.

But recognising that the way we speak to our children matters isn't being snowflakey. The way that we might have an inbuilt unconscious gender bias based on how we were reared can rub off - and I see it amongst other parents as well. Someone on my facebook shared a meme once that said "the way you speak to your child becomes their inner voice" and while I rolled my eyes a bit at it, I recognised a bit of truth in it based on my own experiences so I try to keep it in mind.

If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

The only place I draw the line is to bring up your child as genderless. Or encouraging duel gender beliefs.

And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.

drunkmonkey · 12-11-2019 4:02pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Funny thing is, historically pink is a boys color.

Go back in history and red was seen as a man's uniform in the British Empire (military uniform), so pink was seen as a boys color as a natural extension of that.

...and not to fall apart and call people snowflakes because another person has a different viewpoint to you

Boys also used to wear dresses until toilet trained. I'm not sure why that stopped, makes sense.

shesty · 12-11-2019 4:18pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Are you claiming that it's an either or situation? that people only think to comment on the dress and never the efforts and achievements? Can it not be both?

Of course it can be both but I have noticed it tends to be moreso on their 'lovely dress' or 'sparkly shoes' or whatever.

It's not a big deal as a once off, but when you notice it again and again as a parent, you do start to see how strongly the stereotypes are entrenched in us, and we don't even notice.

Whereas my boy is always referred to as 'a big strong fellow', and isn't it 'great that he's into everything' (that was the most recent one I got as I was preventing him from dismantling a shelf in a shop!!!) And 'look at the little prince there in the buggy'.

It makes me wonder, is all.

Neyite · 12-11-2019 4:19pm

Midster wrote: »

If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

The only place I draw the line is to bring up your child as genderless. Or encouraging duel gender beliefs.

And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.

I agree with letting them be who they want, but it's frustrating that toys and clothes are far more gendered now than they were when I was a kid in the 80s. Even lego has 'boy' and 'girl' versions and it's lego ffs. Another example - we love watching the bake off together, but if my son wants a toy baking set for example it's almost impossible to get one that isn't predominantly pink or overly girly which he'll reject because pink = girly. (he didn't learn that from us, but from his peers at school) So then he misses out on a toy because someone in the design department decided that baking = female. And it reinforces for him that baking =female and so on...

Cabaal · 12-11-2019 4:22pm

Midster wrote: »

If it’s a girl who likes being girly then let her be, if she behaves more boyish, then let her be. If it’s a boy who’s boyish then let him be, if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

There really doesn’t need to be a mass discussion on this. It’s obvious.

But its not really,
So so many parents and people comment when a girl plays with tractors even now, so its certainly not as obvious as you like to make out.
Even more comment if a boy wants to play with dolls.

My wife previously worked in the child care industry for years and the amount of parents who would get upset if little Jimmy wanted to play with dolls or little Mary wanted to be Batman was unreal.

So while you may want to play things down and claim its obvious and a none issue its really not the case and enabling kids to play as they would like to play is still very much a challenge, both because of backward viewpoints or as Neyite pointed out above the extremely poor choice of toys due to pinking up toys that both male and females should be able to enjoy equally.

And there seems to be a lot of weight right now behind new parents, or parents to be, buying genderless clothing, toys etc.

Whats wrong with genderless toys? I grew up with Lego, there was no such thing as pink girly lego back then...it was just lego for kids.
I got into lego because my sisters had lego but none of it was girly or pink but as time went on that changed.

Pushing very specific gender toys outside of dolls/prams to girls is a pretty recent thing.

For example, look at lego advertising in the 50/50/60/70 and even 1980's

Versus Lego advertising now

A very sad backward step, now there's boy and girls lego and its a extremely backward bad step.

mordeith · 12-11-2019 5:58pm

Midster wrote: »

if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

I'm sorry but I'd draw the line at my son wanting to be a cat.

Victor · 12-11-2019 6:33pm

Midster wrote: »

if he’s a boy who displays more feline traits then let him be.

!

Midster · 13-11-2019 1:19am

Come on guys, you know what word I meant, dam this autocorrect bull s**t! Pmsl

AulWan · 13-11-2019 11:19am

Lego should go back to the old advertising! It was much better.

13-11-2019 11:22am

There was a semi decent documentary on Netflix about Lego. They certainly made it sound like it would be hard to blame Lego for the changes. It simply was not selling to that demographic and they had to change to fit the demand.

Big Girl, etc.

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