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What's The Difference Between Atheism And Agnosticism ..

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Comments

  • #52
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,477 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the one thing that atheists *do* believe is that the children are our future; teach them well and let them lead the way. show them all the beauty they possess inside.

    Indeed, which gives them a sense of pride.


  • #53
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    the one thing that atheists *do* believe is that the children are our future; teach them well and let them lead the way. show them all the beauty they possess inside.

    Not sure you can say what atheists *do* believe in tbh. Cynically you could say that Catholics are also very invested in children being the future, though I daresay their vision of the future might differ from yours or mine.


  • #54
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think you need to not walk in anyone's shadow.


  • #55
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    smacl wrote: »
    Not sure you can say what atheists *do* believe in tbh. Cynically you could say that Catholics are also very invested in children being the future, though I daresay their vision of the future might differ from yours or mine.

    Well considering the past, I wonder what way we'd be now without religion ?


  • #56
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    nthclare wrote: »
    Well considering the past, I wonder what way we'd be now without religion ?

    Who can say? Playing "what if" with past events can be very entertaining but really amounts to little more than speculative fantasy. Given the majority of societies have developed religion in some form or another over the course if their history I'd guess if we didn't have our current majority religion we'd have a different one. Societies that allow open criticism of religion are quite a new thing, but we still succumb to fake news and are bombarded with bullshít of one kind or another from those in power who want to stay in power. Personally I'm of the opinion that critical thinking should be part of the core curriculum at this point from primary school on, in much the same way as mindfulness is starting to be taught.


  • #57
    A_Lost_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭A_Lost_Man


    What is way of morality among atheist and agnostic. I mean if an atheist's mind start miss firing neurons what is a way to convince him that you lost track. Like there are atheists who in the hate of religion go to much wild they forget what they are doing is actually wrong. They are infact hurting people but think they are doing good like hitler.


  • #58
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    What is way of morality among atheist and agnostic. I mean if an atheist's mind start miss firing neurons what is a way to convince him that you lost track. Like there are atheists who in the hate of religion go to much wild they forget what they are doing is actually wrong. They are infact hurting people but think they are doing good like hitler.

    As opposed to religious people who commit atrocities because other people don't agree with their interpretation of god?

    I give you - just within Europe -
    The Albigensian Crusade.
    The Witchcraft 'Trials'
    The Inquisition.
    St Bartholomew's Day Massacre.

    How do you convince them they have lost track?


  • #59
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    What is way of morality among atheist and agnostic. I mean if an atheist's mind start miss firing neurons what is a way to convince him that you lost track. Like there are atheists who in the hate of religion go to much wild they forget what they are doing is actually wrong. They are infact hurting people but think they are doing good like hitler.

    Hitler was a theist and believed his actions to be divinely inspired. Obviously that is a very dangerous idea.

    If I go off the deep end I'm just a lone nut, a convinced theist going off the deep end has doctrines and beliefs which others share to some extent and he/she may be able to convince fellow believers to join their cause and quote scripture to that effect.

    The Abrahamic religious texts all contain exhortations to kill those of different or no belief.

    How do you convince an unhinged theist that they've gone off track, when they're convinced that god himself is talking to him and telling him to kill catholics/protestants/jews/prostitutes/gays/muslims/atheists?

    Atheists don't share a morality the same way as they don't share anything except non-belief in any gods - but most would subscribe to a greater or lesser extent to a humanistic view which basically amounts to don't be a dick.

    There are plenty of theists who have shot up / blown up church congregations, I'm not aware of any atheists who have done so but please enlighten me if you can.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #60
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    nthclare wrote: »
    Well considering the past, I wonder what way we'd be now without religion ?

    Well, in Ireland, we'd have fewer raped kids for a start - and no kids who grew up in miserable institutions simply because they were "illegitimate".

    Without the religious divide, the Ulster plantation would have ended up like the earlier ones - "more Irish than the Irish themselves"* - and we would have a peaceful all-island republic with a higher standard of living than either jurisdiction on this island does now.

    That's one of the things that p1sses me off the most about religion, tbh - when the divisions it causes become political divisions.



    * Before Banna corrects me, yes I know that phrase refers to the Normans :)

    Scrap the cap!



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  • #61
    Fourier
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,558 ✭✭✭✭Fourier


    Kamu wrote: »
    Sorry, just as an aside, look at the article
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/41968-quantum-entanglement-faster-than-light.html

    Quantum entanglement cannot actually communicate faster then light.
    Yes, basically entangled things are correlated. Like two coins that always land the same way up. You can't use this to send information since the outcome of each coin flip is random. So if heads is 0 and tails is 1, you just get a random sequence 001000011...

    It can be used to create a shared password though, since both parties with a coin know the outcomes.

    More accurately entanglement is like flipping a pair of coins where if they're both flipped starting from heads or from different faces they'll land the same, but if both are flipped from tails they'll land differently. Such a pair of coins are correlated, but in a way too strong for determinism. The world is too interconnected for determinism.


  • #62
    A_Lost_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭A_Lost_Man


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    As opposed to religious people who commit atrocities because other people don't agree with their interpretation of god?

    I give you - just within Europe -
    The Albigensian Crusade.
    The Witchcraft 'Trials'
    The Inquisition.
    St Bartholomew's Day Massacre.

    How do you convince them they have lost track?
    Better ask them or post your question to christian forum. I am not here to justify their murder or convince them they have lost track. How to convince Communist who under the banner of atheistic government killed 60 m in the 20 through genocide. The Reign of Terror of the French Revolution made a goverment which was anti churchs during the Enlightenment it killed many christian believers.


  • #63
    A_Lost_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭A_Lost_Man


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

    Atheists don't share a morality the same way as they don't share anything except non-belief in any gods - but most would subscribe to a greater or lesser extent to a humanistic view which basically amounts to don't be a dick.

    Are you trying to cover up Communism which is one of the most wellknown cases of atheism's ties to mass murder and French Revolution a inspired by the works of Diderot, Voltaire, Sade, and Rousseau.


  • #64
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    What is way of morality among atheist and agnostic. I mean if an atheist's mind start miss firing neurons what is a way to convince him that you lost track. Like there are atheists who in the hate of religion go to much wild they forget what they are doing is actually wrong. They are infact hurting people but think they are doing good like hitler.
    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    Better ask them or post your question to christian forum. I am not here to justify their murder or convince them they have lost track. How to you convince Communist who killed 60 m in the 20 through genocide. The Reign of Terror of the French Revolution made a goverment which was anti churchs during the Enlightenment it killed many christian believers.

    I see you managed to completely miss the point I was making.

    Some people will find justification to kill. Some people will find justification to kill many many people.
    Those people may be atheists or religious - either way an 'excuse' for genocide can always be found. In it's simplest form that 'excuse' could be categorized as the victims of genocide are, in the minds of the killers, guilty of being 'wrong' in some way - that can be the 'wrong' race, 'wrong' colour, 'wrong' political ideology. 'wrong' religious belief. Or just in the 'wrong' place at the 'wrong' time - as Native Americans, Native Australians etc found out.

    ...and please read a decent history book on the French Revolution, and The Enlightenment. I put in a comma as they are two different things.


  • #65
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    Are you trying to cover up Communism which is one of the most wellknown cases of atheism's ties to mass murder and French Revolution a inspired by the works of Diderot, Voltaire, Sade, and Rousseau.

    Totally irrelevant to both the thread, and my post.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #66
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Totally irrelevant to both the thread, and my post.

    Not only irrelevant but incorrect.
    Voltaire, for example, believed monarchy was the best form of government - John Locke, whose name is conspicuously missing from this irrelevant list, on the other hand. Now he was a huge influence on the French (and American) Revolution. A topic, it would appear, this poster has only a superficial acquaintance with but seems determined to blame for everything.


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  • #67
    branie2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,305 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Atheists don't believe in God; agnostics believe that we cannot know either way if there is a god or not.


  • #68
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    branie2 wrote: »
    Atheists don't believe in God; agnostics believe that we cannot know either way if there is a god or not.
    Nope - neither of your definitions is fully accurate.

    Atheist assert that one or more deities do not exist; it's unclear whether an atheist asserts that no deities of any kind exist, since not all have been defined. An agnostic asserts that it is not possible to know whether one or more deities exist; it's unclear whether an agnostic asserts that is not possible to know whether one or more deities, defined or undefined, do not exist.

    The two terms don't really include or exclude each other to any significant degree, nor, by any stretch of the imagination, do they combine to cover all possibilities concerning the existence of one or more deities, defined or undefined, nor knowledge concerning same.

    Both terms cause endless confusion, neither is very clear, both are regularly misused by just about everybody, and should really be universally clarified or lobbed into the great dustbin of history and replaced with something more accurate. Same goes for the term "god", btw.


  • #69
    A_Lost_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭A_Lost_Man


    There are some afters affect of religion left in almost every atheist. They pretend to atheist on foram but in reality there is a religious guy inside them. How they ignore / and cheat their inner self. Like there are atheist who marry in churches using christian customs but on forums they becomes atheist. Is it some kind hypocrisy. In school as customs their children read story of Jesus and believe in them.


  • #70
    The high horse brigade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    There are some afters affect of religion left in almost every atheist. They pretent to atheist on foram but in reality there is a religious guy inside them. How they ignore / and cheat they inner self. Like there are atheist who marry in churches using christian customs but on forums they becomes atheist. Is it some kind hypocrisy. In school as customs their children read story of Jesus and believe in them.

    You mean these Christian traditions copied from ancient pagan traditions?


  • #71
    A_Lost_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭A_Lost_Man


    The high horse brigade wrote: »
    You mean these Christian traditions copied from ancient pagan traditions?
    yes.


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  • #72
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    There are some afters affect of religion left in almost every atheist. They pretend to atheist on foram but in reality there is a religious guy inside them. How they ignore / and cheat their inner self. Like there are atheist who marry in churches using christian customs but on forums they becomes atheist. Is it some kind hypocrisy. In school as customs their children read story of Jesus and believe in them.

    Depends very much on their upbrining. My maternal grandmother for example was an Austrian jew who fled to England to escape the Nazis and my mother was raised atheist. My father left Ireland in his late teens, joined the merchant navy and was also a life long atheist. Myself and my wife are both atheist and our kids are second or third generation atheists depending which side of the family tree you follow. There's no little hidden Christian inside them. While many atheists of my generation would have been considered lapsed Catholics in days of yore, many of my kids peers are also second generation atheists. Yes, the churches are still (ab)using the school system to force feed them religion, but the message at home is it is rubbish and we're starting to see a generation raised atheist.


  • #73
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    A_Lost_Man wrote: »
    They pretend to atheist on foram

    Yes, but how is babby formed?
    but in reality there is a religious guy inside them.

    Ah. :)


    It's like a less grammatically correct realdanbreen.

    Going into a church or even having a religious marriage does not make one a theist.

    The latter isn't something I'd do myself, and the former is something I avoid as far as possible, but there are plenty of cultural / familial reasons to do these things.

    We are still living in a religion-soaked society even if it's unlikely that a majority of people actually believe in god. Just switch on RTE1 at 5:59 and get back to me...

    Scrap the cap!



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