Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

thebaz · 25-11-2019 8:12pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Great interview with Joe Schmidt on off the ball podcast.

All those knee jerk reactor posters should give it a good listen.

good interview - I like Joe , but still don't really understand what went wrong in one year - the WC is the ultimate - winning 6 Nations is great, but a successful WC is what determines the best

Shefwedfan · 25-11-2019 9:23pm

thebaz wrote: »

good interview - I like Joe , but still don't really understand what went wrong in one year - the WC is the ultimate - winning 6 Nations is great, but a successful WC is what determines the best

I don't think anyone can pin point what went wrong.....

salmocab · 25-11-2019 9:35pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't think anyone can pin point what went wrong.....

I would think there were several things that went wrong, possibly each on their own wouldn’t have made much difference but a few things wrong for a year or so at that level might cause things to dip significantly.

sydthebeat · 25-11-2019 10:10pm

Joe gives a very good outline as to what he thinks went wrong, and the logic leading up to the individual decisions

shootermacg · 25-11-2019 10:25pm

Sexton's close to being washed up. In 4 years he will be entirely washed up. It'd be brave of Farrell to give him the boot, but it would be the right decision.

It's time he took his payday in France and retired.

The Lost Sheep · 25-11-2019 10:43pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Sexton's close to being washed up. In 4 years he will be entirely washed up. It'd be brave of Farrell to give him the boot, but it would be the right decision.

It's time he took his payday in France and retired.

This is rubbish. What exactly is washed up anyway? And go to France? Eh no....

shootermacg · 25-11-2019 11:26pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

This is rubbish. What exactly is washed up anyway? And go to France? Eh no....

Oh the rubbish game? Well OK then. This post is rubbish. What exactly is rubbish anyway? And go to France? People do that. Eh yeah....

The Lost Sheep · 25-11-2019 11:29pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Oh the rubbish game? Well OK then. This post is rubbish. What is rubbish anyway? And go to France? People do that. Eh yeah....

Sexton go to France. That's rubbish. You on the wind up with that. As seriously??

And he wont be playing in 4 years anyway.

Shefwedfan · 25-11-2019 11:31pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Sexton's close to being washed up. In 4 years he will be entirely washed up. It'd be brave of Farrell to give him the boot, but it would be the right decision.

It's time he took his payday in France and retired.

So who is the replacement?

also might be good to explain how he is washed up?

4 years? Have we not done this to death, 4 years is a long time in rugby so why do we give a crap about a tournament in 4 years?

shootermacg · 25-11-2019 11:36pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So who is the replacement?

also might be good to explain how he is washed up?

4 years? Have we not done this to death, 4 years is a long time in rugby so why do we give a crap about a tournament in 4 years?

He should take Kearney and Cronin with him.

sydthebeat · 25-11-2019 11:43pm

Sexton is still the best 10 in the country right now.

"Washed up" is laughable

Shefwedfan · 25-11-2019 11:45pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Sexton is still the best 10 in the country right now.

"Washed up" is laughable

He didn’t looked too washed up in the last two games

Who was the poor back row he nailed against Lyon?

It funny how long now a certain group of Irish supporters have been trying to say Sexton is finished....

prawnsambo · 25-11-2019 11:48pm

Why on earth are you biting on this rubbish. It's so dumb I can feel my IQ dwindling every time I read those posts.

Shefwedfan · 25-11-2019 11:52pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Why on earth are you biting on this rubbish. It's so dumb I can feel my IQ dwindling every time I read those posts.

I was sure the poster had a excellent alternative and a well thought out plan

thomond2006 · 25-11-2019 11:54pm

The Six Nations is too important financially for all players over a certain age to suddenly be jettisoned. Rob Kearney and Sean Cronin are two players that Ireland can move on from as there are now alternatives. Ronan Kelleher needs to be in the Ireland 23. He only turns 22 in January but he's been too impressive to leave out.

On the other hand Sexton and Earls are still the best players in their positions. They have to be starting.

shootermacg · 25-11-2019 11:58pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He didn’t looked too washed up in the last two games

Who was the poor back row he nailed against Lyon?

It funny how long now a certain group of Irish supporters have been trying to say Sexton is finished....

No wheels, aimless kicking and he's too predictable at international level. And if I see another Garryowen into the opposition 22 for a easy mark I'll scream.

So he's played 2 games now has he? Probably his longest run of games in quite a while.

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:02am

Still no better 10 playing in Ireland right now....

But you keep banging that solo drum... It's entertaining...

shootermacg · 26-11-2019 12:04am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Still no better 10 playing in Ireland right now....

But you keep banging that solo drum... It's entertaining...

And he will be in 4 years too unless they give youth some experience. He's been average for a while now and he's too old to get better. You could slot Ross Byrne in for him at any time and you'd notice no difference and we all know how limited Ross is.

thomond2006 · 26-11-2019 12:05am

Course, we all know who Andy Farrell needs to call to save Ireland.

We know.

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:05am

shootermacg wrote: »

And he will be in 4 years too unless they give youth some experience. He's been average for a while now and he's too old to get better.

So your castigating the brand new coaching squad for something that haven't done yet....

Interesting logic.

shootermacg · 26-11-2019 12:08am

sydthebeat wrote: »

So your castigating the brand new coaching squad for something that haven't done yet....

Interesting logic.

I haven't mentioned the coaching squad at all Mr Strawman.

shootermacg · 26-11-2019 12:09am

prawnsambo wrote: »

I can feel my IQ dwindling every time I read those posts.

You'd want to watch that. It's not like you started with much

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:10am

shootermacg wrote: »

I haven't mentioned the coaching squad at all Mr Strawman.

So the "they" you refer to in the ireland rugby thread who are supposed to give youth a chance is???

Boards posters??

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:11am

shootermacg wrote: »

You'd want to watch that. It's not like you started with much

If that's the quality of your argument then I'm out.....

Good night

shootermacg · 26-11-2019 12:13am

sydthebeat wrote: »

So the "they" you refer to in the ireland rugby thread who are supposed to give youth a chance is???

Boards posters??

Plenty of young tens that would like a shot at a central contract. JS doesn't do enough these days to be retained.

shootermacg · 26-11-2019 12:14am

sydthebeat wrote: »

If that's the quality of your argument then I'm out.....

Good night

Good luck to you

Former Former · 26-11-2019 12:20am

The theory is sound. It's no different to saying we should move on from Kearney. Build for the future etc.

The problem is that the only viable replacement is always injured. Everyone else is well below the standard needed. There's no point dumping Sexton until someone else can show they're up to the job, it would be utterly pointless.

Faugheen · 26-11-2019 2:02am

He’s chuffed with the amount of bites he’s after getting.

The moment he offered no alternative is when he should have been left shouting at the clouds.

Dubinusa · 26-11-2019 2:48am

Kearney has lots of replacements. Haley is playing great, Larmour is going well and there's Addison. I'd be surprised to see Kearney in the 6 nation's. I think Haley will be in with a shot as he's gotten a good run of matches already. Larmour is good on the wings and at fb as is Addison. I think RK will be the 1st to be dropped.
Cronin may also be dropped. I think Herring and Scannell will get the nod for the 6nations and Kelleher getting a cap also.
Think the squad will turn over in the next 2 years. Sexton will probably still be in the mix. Nobody obviously as good atm.

Shefwedfan · 26-11-2019 8:36am

shootermacg wrote: »

No wheels, aimless kicking and he's too predictable at international level. And if I see another Garryowen into the opposition 22 for a easy mark I'll scream.

So he's played 2 games now has he? Probably his longest run of games in quite a while.

I would hope he hasn’t got wheels, he is a person after all

Niallof9 · 26-11-2019 8:46am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Great interview with Joe Schmidt on off the ball podcast.

All those knee jerk reactor posters should give it a good listen.

nah, i don't think any of us will learn anything we don't know. kneejerk? good one

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 8:47am

Anyway, until an alternative comes along that is playing well enough to usurp any of the elder players, they will continue to be played.

I for one can't see kearney having any more that a bit part in this seasons 6N, if anything. The alternatives are playing equal if not better ie larmour, haley, Addison.

There's obviously a void at 2 and the front runner is a very young player, which is great.

At 9, Murray position is in real trouble unless he finds his better form. I think JGP has a style that is well suited to test level rugby and he could turn out to be a gem in green if he gets his chance.

At 10, until the younger pretenders are close enough to sextons performances to warrant inclusion in big games, then Sexton will still be the main man for at least the next 6N. Of all his competition, its actually only Billy burns who is currently putting in anything like the level of performances needed to oust him. While Fitzgerald is playing well in connacht, it's still very 'individual based' rather than controlling a team. I thought JJ was very good last weekend, but suffers from being a jack of all trades. Until he nails down the red 10 shirt, he won't have a sniff at the green one.

Zzippy · 26-11-2019 10:39am

While I still think Sexton is far and away the best 10, and of course will start the big games, it's also true his days are numbered - age catches up with all players. Do we want to be in a situation in two years time where Sexton is either injured or just not up to test level anymore, and we haven't got a suitable replacement because they haven't had enough exposure to test level? I hope the new management take a more pro-active approach to bringing players through - not giving them 5/10 minutes at the end of a game that's either won or lost, but bringing them on at 50 minutes, or starting them with a serious backup on the bench. It's one area I think JS got it wrong - over-reliance on the likes of Murray and Sexton, and not giving substitutes enough gametime. Marmion proved himself a capable replacement against NZ and England in particular, but when Murray was fit again he was reduced to cameo roles, even when Murray was clearly out of form.

Shefwedfan · 26-11-2019 10:53am

Farrell first couple of games is in a 6 nations. If he wins it then he is great. Loses a game and he is s**t. Just look at the fans on here to know that's true.

At the moment the only person capable of replacing Sexton is Carbery. Will he be fit? no idea. Will he stay fit for a full 6 nations? probably not. For all the complaints about Sexton and been injury prone I think we need to consider Carbery is potentially worse. Which is a huge loss.

Based on current form. I would have Sexton as a starter. Carbery on the bench. Maybe start Carbery for Italy and Scotland. Then in squad have Byrne and Burns. I would bring H Byrne and Fitzgerald in Connacht up around the squad when they get a chance.

I would love to bring in H Byrne but I think he will get serious minutes for Leinster during the 6 nations so wouldbe better to stay at province. Fitzgerald, well if he continues to start at Connacht then bring him straight in....

At 9, based on current it would be Cooney, Blade and McGrath. I personally would start Blade.....

God this forum would be a nightmare if Blade and Fitzgerald started a 6 nations match :-) :-)

Jump_In_Jack · 26-11-2019 10:55am

I would hope that the new coaches give a clean slate to everyone.
For the 6N I'd like to see a team picked based on form.
It's the start of a new RWC cycle, so age shouldn't matter, whatever players are putting in the best performances in each position should be selected.

Right now I would go with:

1. Healy, 2. Kelleher, 3. Porter,
5. Dillane, 4. Ryan,
6. Ruddock, 8. Deegan, 7. Van der Flier,
9. Cooney, 10. Sexton,
12. McCloskey, 13. Ringrose,
11. Earls, 15. Haley, 14. Conway

16. Scannell, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Moore, 19. Henderson, 20. Beirne, 21. Blade, 22. Burns, 23. Stockdale.

It will change a lot by February but whoever is playing the best should be rewarded with selection.

aloooof · 26-11-2019 11:05am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I would hope that the new coaches give a clean slate to everyone.
For the 6N I'd like to see a team picked based on form.
It's the start of a new RWC cycle, so age shouldn't matter, whatever players are putting in the best performances in each position should be selected.

Right now I would go with:

1. Healy, 2. Kelleher, 3. Porter,
5. Dillane, 4. Ryan,
6. Ruddock, 8. Deegan, 7. Van der Flier,
9. Cooney, 10. Sexton,
12. McCloskey, 13. Ringrose,
11. Earls, 15. Haley, 14. Conway

16. Scannell, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Moore, 19. Henderson, 20. Beirne, 21. Blade, 22. Burns, 23. Stockdale.

It will change a lot by February but whoever is playing the best should be rewarded with selection.

I agree with the sentiment but I don't see Stander falling outside the starting 15, let alone the 23. He was one of the few players to come away from the RWC with credit in the bank.

26-11-2019 12:03pm

It's an interesting start to Farrell's career. First two games are at home against Scotland and Wales.

Scotland are on a bit of a trajectory and it's not an uphill one. I think the players will want to kick off Farrell's tenure appropriately and I expect a pretty big performance against the Scots. Watching the provinces I'm inclined to feel that the pressure and focus on the World cup was the catalyst behind the drop in form for quite a few players but there seems to be a bit of a bounce back afoot.

Wales at home under Pivac will be interesting. Did a good job with Scarlet's but I think Gatland was been the secret ingredient keeping Wales ticking and I do wonder how they will go from here. They've a bruiser against France in the opening round and then they visit us in the Aviva.

England in round three in Twickenham is where we'll get a very true sense of where the team is.

Not an easy start but hopefully it will be a good one.

Shefwedfan · 26-11-2019 12:06pm

aloooof wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment but I don't see Stander falling outside the starting 15, let alone the 23. He was one of the few players to come away from the RWC with credit in the bank.

Stander was one of the better players in the WC....just didn't have a strong enough back row players to help him. Stick him at 6 with Deegan at 8 or play him at 8 with Ruddock at 6 and I think it will help. VDF has to start at 7 of fit.

26-11-2019 12:09pm

Our best performances over the past 12 months have been with Conan at 8 and Stander at 6 imo. Conan is injured though I'm sure sure we'll see POM and Stander at 6 and 8 again, which hasn't been good enough for about 12 months at international level.

Shefwedfan · 26-11-2019 12:12pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Our best performances over the past 12 months have been with Conan at 8 and Stander at 6 imo. Conan is injured though I'm sure sure we'll see POM and Stander at 6 and 8 again, which hasn't been good enough for about 12 months at international level.

I can't do another game with POM at 6 and Stander at 8.....yes it will probably work at Scotland at home....but any of the decent teams we get murdered

26-11-2019 12:44pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Great interview with Joe Schmidt on off the ball podcast.

All those knee jerk reactor posters should give it a good listen.

I don't want to stick the boot in, he's the best coach we've ever had, but I'm not really convinced by him in this. When talking about the Wales game in the 6N, a game we got absolutely smacked up and down the pitch in, his view is it was a fine margins game, there was one try a piece in it, they built a lead on penalties, and something about the rain. Yeah it was one try a piece, but ours came when we were 25-0 down (twenty-five nil!) and 80+ mins had gone. It's a bizarre way of looking at that match imo. It seems to be the way he looks at a lot of 2019. I think this book and all this media have just come way too soon after the RWC/him leaving the job.

Another one - asked about whether he stayed too loyal to certain players. Responds that NZ did exactly what they expected with their early possession, stuck up a bomb into our 22 so they felt going with experience at the back was the way to go. Fails to mention Kearney and Earls totally fluffed one of those and let it bounce somewhere in between the two of them. Thank god for that experience though eh.

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:45pm

time to bring Jack OD back into the ireland camp as well in my opinion ... a very versatile back row option in the 20 shirt.. and the more of a run he gets without injury the better hes looking

sydthebeat · 26-11-2019 12:59pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

I don't want to stick the boot in, he's the best coach we've ever had, but I'm not really convinced by him in this. When talking about the Wales game in the 6N, a game we got absolutely smacked up and down the pitch in, his view is it was a fine margins game, there was one try a piece in it, they built a lead on penalties, and something about the rain. Yeah it was one try a piece, but ours came when we were 25-0 down (twenty-five nil!) and 80+ mins had gone. It's a bizarre way of looking at that match imo. It seems to be the way he looks at a lot of 2019. I think this book and all this media have just come way too soon after the RWC/him leaving the job.

yeah i agree with that, and i agree his view of the england game was skewed as well.

interesting that thats how he viewed those games.

i just had a quick look and in Joes 1st six nations game in 2014 he started 6 players who started against NZ five and a half years later...
and each of the 6 players were firm established players at the time
POM, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Best and R Kearney.

for all the debut caps he gave out.... did he ever really give enough chances for those players to grow as internationals?
The only ones to demand a jersey immediately were the freaks like Ryan and stander.

aloooof · 26-11-2019 1:05pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

When talking about the Wales game in the 6N, a game we got absolutely smacked up and down the pitch in, his view is it was a fine margins game, there was one try a piece in it, they built a lead on penalties, and something about the rain. Yeah it was one try a piece, but ours came when we were 25-0 down (twenty-five nil!) and 80+ mins had gone. It's a bizarre way of looking at that match imo. It seems to be the way he looks at a lot of 2019. I think this book and all this media have just come way too soon after the RWC/him leaving the job.

sydthebeat wrote: »

yeah i agree with that, and i agree his view of the england game was skewed as well.

interesting that thats how he viewed those games.

My view on this is that I'd be amazed if that is how he actually views those games. It think it's just a case that what he says in public is very different to what he think in private. You don't get to that level without being far more critical than saying "fine margins".

26-11-2019 1:07pm

aloooof wrote: »

My view on this is that I'd be amazed if that is how he actually views those games. It think it's just a case that what he says in public is very different to what he think in private. You don't get to that level without being far more critical than saying "fine margins".

He's not the coach anymore. He doesn't need to protect the team or protect himself, if he's not going to be honest then this whole media blitz is completely pointless.

salmocab · 26-11-2019 1:11pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

He's not the coach anymore. He doesn't need to protect the team or protect himself, if he's not going to be honest then this whole media blitz is completely pointless.

He’s certainly not going to be honest in all these interviews, I have listened to none of them as I know he’s not going to say anything controversial as he’s not that sort of character.

kingofthekong · 26-11-2019 1:17pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

time to bring Jack OD back into the ireland camp as well in my opinion ... a very versatile back row option in the 20 shirt.. and the more of a run he gets without injury the better hes looking

Would have Deegan and Doris ahead of him tbh

Backrows Id bring would be VDF, Stander, Ruddock, Jordi, Deegan, Doris

bennyl10 · 26-11-2019 1:20pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I would hope that the new coaches give a clean slate to everyone.
For the 6N I'd like to see a team picked based on form.
It's the start of a new RWC cycle, so age shouldn't matter, whatever players are putting in the best performances in each position should be selected.

Right now I would go with:

1. Healy, 2. Kelleher, 3. Porter,
5. Dillane, 4. Ryan,
6. Ruddock, 8. Deegan, 7. Van der Flier,
9. Cooney, 10. Sexton,
12. McCloskey, 13. Ringrose,
11. Earls, 15. Haley, 14. Conway

16. Scannell, 17. Kilcoyne, 18. Moore, 19. Henderson, 20. Beirne, 21. Blade, 22. Burns, 23. Stockdale.

It will change a lot by February but whoever is playing the best should be rewarded with selection.

CJ, who was our best player at the WC by a distance, drops out of the 23?
insane

aloooof · 26-11-2019 1:24pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

He's not the coach anymore. He doesn't need to protect the team or protect himself, if he's not going to be honest then this whole media blitz is completely pointless.

The only point of the media blitz is solely to sell books, tho. I'm not sure he'd sell all that many more if he had a complete tell-all versus this approach.

And that would be completely out of character for him compared to anything we've seen from him in the past.

Shefwedfan · 26-11-2019 1:34pm

Joe will sell books without going out and hanging players out to dry

Rugby fans will want to read his book, I certainly do. I wouldn't if he suddenly decided it was better to sell off stories....

He is not finished in rugby, what happens if he throws players under the bus and then he takes up NZ job? are the players going to thrust him

I have no idea why anyone would think a man like Joe is suddenly going to come out and go "see XYZ, he is sh*t isnt he?"

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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