Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

Pudsy33 · 26-11-2015 12:29am

What's this about Reid not being good enough? The lad is unquestionably our best 12 imo. He will be a cracking player.

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 12:30am

Pudsy33 wrote: »

What's this about Reid not being good enough? The lad is unquestionably our best 12 imo. He will be a cracking player.

Going forward he is. Defensively he's a complete and utter liability. And you just can't get away with that anywhere in the modern game, but especially not in the centre.

irishbucsfan · 26-11-2015 12:31am

Pudsy33 wrote: »

What's this about Reid not being good enough? The lad is unquestionably our best 12 imo. He will be a cracking player.

Yeah, if he just improves his defense he'll be a huge asset for us. Worse defenders have done it in the past.

vienne86 · 26-11-2015 12:31am

Henshaw and T'eo in partnership in the centre sounds great to me!

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 12:32am

vienne86 wrote: »

Henshaw and T'eo in partnership in the centre sounds great to me!

I'd be very worried about their ability to distribute. It's Henshaws big weakness really and while Te'o is some man for the offloads he doesn't have much of a passing game besides. I'd be worried you'd have 2 guys looking to find contact again and again.

lesterfreeman · 26-11-2015 12:34am

case885 wrote: »

What about playing VDF, Furlong, Luke Mc grath? They were trusted.
Have Farrell and Daly even played for Leinsters first team?
Fitzgerald was being hailed as Ireland's solution to 13 last season so why would he be put back on the wing.

they've been trusted after excelling and have succeeded to far, Reid has been trusted and found wanting.

Daly and Farrell have so far been unable to make a big enough impression to get senior gametime, they've been bypassed Ringrose and haven't been able to get ahead of other options either.

It's about constructing the best possible leinster backline, that probably involves Fitzgerald on the wing

lesterfreeman · 26-11-2015 12:34am

Pudsy33 wrote: »

What's this about Reid not being good enough? The lad is unquestionably our best 12 imo. He will be a cracking player.

he's a horrible defender, get away with it at pro 12 level but not higher.

lesterfreeman · 26-11-2015 12:38am

vienne86 wrote: »

Henshaw and T'eo in partnership in the centre sounds great to me!

well Teo is pretty unlikely to be here next season.

26-11-2015 1:25am

lesterfreeman wrote: »

well Teo is pretty unlikely to be here next season.

There is nothing remotely conclusive either way. We should break the bank tbh.

lesterfreeman · 26-11-2015 1:31am

Deleted User wrote: »

There is nothing remotely conclusive either way. We should break the bank tbh.

if he stays we will have, but the rumours aren't good and never have been.

if he leaves it wont be due to not offering him enough money IMO.

although if he is offered obscene money by an english/french club leinster shouldn't break up the way the current pay structure works at the club for him.

flouncer · 26-11-2015 3:36am

case885 wrote: »

You'd think Leinster would trust their home grown centres rather than bringing in henshaw. Reid, Fitzgerald, Ringrose, O Shea, Farrell, Daly seems like plenty depth. Henshaw missing big chunks of the season away with Ireland won't be great either when Leinster are already depleted enough at those times.

Exactly. What does henshaw offer Leinster. He's gone most of the year, like the rest of Leinster players, so on his return you have an abundance. Its ludicrous. So you have one more player to integrate. Fantastic. Its hard enough to integrate him into Connacht.

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 8:59am

flouncer wrote: »

Exactly. What does henshaw offer Leinster. He's gone most of the year, like the rest of Leinster players, so on his return you have an abundance. Its ludicrous. So you have one more player to integrate. Fantastic. Its hard enough to integrate him into Connacht.

One thing we do not have is an abundance of centres. In fact it's a problem position for us. Reid is a turnstile in defence, O'Shea simply hasn't been able to step up and at 24-25 it's pretty late in the day to be expecting that to change, Fitz is a converted winger, Te'o may not be here next season and that just leaves Ringrose, Daly and Farrell. Ringrose might be able to make the step up to European level next season but we'd still be short on options there as the other 2 lads haven't seen any senior time. I'd imagine there's a reason for that.

former total · 26-11-2015 9:31am

flouncer wrote: »

What does henshaw offer Leinster.

This is missing the point in spectacular fashion.

If Henshaw moves to Leinster, with heavy emphasis on if, it won't be because Leinster want/need him, it will be because the player wants to go, IRFU want to keep him happy and it's the best thing for the national team.

AdamD · 26-11-2015 10:35am

Henshaw's better than any of our centres

errlloyd · 26-11-2015 10:43am

flouncer wrote: »

Exactly. What does henshaw offer Leinster. He's gone most of the year, like the rest of Leinster players, so on his return you have an abundance. Its ludicrous. So you have one more player to integrate. Fantastic. Its hard enough to integrate him into Connacht.

It seems our strategy is shooting the moon, ie instead of trying to have as few hearts as possible, we're gonna try get them all. (The appropriateness of this analogy is routed in the fact that to shoot the moon in hearts you need 15 cards)

The plan is simple Flounce. Rather than have half the internationals, and having to integrate them all time (boo) we're going to try to get all of the internationals, this way we'd never have to integrate them. They would play together all year. Once we complete the capture of Henshaw, we will get Murray and Henderson. When Ringrose comes good (and best retires) we will have completed the capture of the entire Irish first 15.

McGrath, Strauss, Moore, Toner, Henderson, Murphy, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, DKearney, Henshaw, Ringrose, Fitz and Kearney

It's all part of the Leinster blazers plan. My theory is that they realised when they were losing Joe to Ireland he would be irreplaceable. So they made this deal with the IRFI in order to ensure their entire starting 15 would be regularly coached by Joe.

.ak · 26-11-2015 11:43am

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd be very worried about their ability to distribute. It's Henshaws big weakness really and while Te'o is some man for the offloads he doesn't have much of a passing game besides. I'd be worried you'd have 2 guys looking to find contact again and again.

I don't see anything wrong with either of their distribution tbh. I don't know where this is coming from actually?

freyners · 26-11-2015 11:49am

.ak wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with either of their distribution tbh. I don't know where this is coming from actually?

Its a myth for henshaw at the very least. If you watch some of tries hes set up over the years, hhis offloading and passing in traffic is very good

26-11-2015 12:16pm

freyners wrote: »

Its a myth for henshaw at the very least. If you watch some of tries hes set up over the years, hhis offloading and passing in traffic is very good

But it's been said on here two or three times so it must be true and often repeated.

dub_skav · 26-11-2015 12:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But it's been said on here two or three times so it must be true and often repeated.

Now if somebody manages to dredge up a Murray kinsella reference it will be gospel

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 1:05pm

01. Jack McGrath
02. Sean Cronin
03. Tadgh Furlong
04. Devin Toner
05. Mike McCarthy
06. Rhys Ruddock
07. Josh van der Flier
08. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

09. Luke McGrath
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Ian Madigan
13. Ben Te'o
14. Zane Kirchner
15. Rob Kearney

16. James Tracy
17. Peter Dooley
18. Marty Moore
19. Ross Molony
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Noel Reid
23. Gary Ringrose

WallyGUFC · 26-11-2015 1:06pm

.ak wrote: »

There's one thing trusting people but at the end of the day we're not a development side.

Reid has come along bounds but his defending has been quite poor. Fitzgerald's best position is 11. Ringrose maybe the messiah but he'll get blown out of the water by bigger centres. O'shea is an out n out 13 but seems to get the yips whenever he lines out for the seniors. We'll have to see with Farrell and Daly but it's far too early to assume they'll make jump up.

Relying on home grown talent for the sake of it is silly IMO.

Seems Connacht still are though unfortunately, assuming he moves.

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 1:09pm

freyners wrote: »

Its a myth for henshaw at the very least. If you watch some of tries hes set up over the years, hhis offloading and passing in traffic is very good

But I'm not talking about offloading. Look at Fitzgerald against Bath there last week when he gave that pass to Tracy in the build up to the VDF try. It was very reminiscent of the pass to Dave Kearney against Canada. Drawing his man and timing & delivering the pass really well. Compare that then to the England game where Henshaw made the break at the end and made a total balls of the pass. The timing and delivery were all wrong. I've seen that kind of thing a number of times from him now. It's not a huge deal. He's a young lad and that will come in time, but it is (IMO anyway) a bit of an issue at the moment.

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 1:12pm

molloyjh wrote: »

01. Jack McGrath
02. Sean Cronin
03. Tadgh Furlong
04. Devin Toner
05. Mike McCarthy
06. Rhys Ruddock
07. Josh van der Flier
08. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

09. Luke McGrath
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Ian Madigan
13. Ben Te'o
14. Zane Kirchner
15. Rob Kearney

16. James Tracy
17. Peter Dooley
18. Marty Moore
19. Ross Molony
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Noel Reid
23. Gary Ringrose

Anyway it's interesting to see Mads at 12 this week and Luke back out to the wing. VDF and McGrath (actually both McGraths) are the right call. And good to see Molony on the bench, if only because Triggs is injured.

errlloyd · 26-11-2015 1:12pm

What a delish team.

former total · 26-11-2015 1:13pm

molloyjh wrote: »

01. Jack McGrath
02. Sean Cronin
03. Tadgh Furlong
04. Devin Toner
05. Mike McCarthy
06. Rhys Ruddock
07. Josh van der Flier
08. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

09. Luke McGrath
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Luke Fitzgerald
12. Ian Madigan
13. Ben Te'o
14. Zane Kirchner
15. Rob Kearney

16. James Tracy
17. Peter Dooley
18. Marty Moore
19. Ross Molony
20. Dominic Ryan
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Noel Reid
23. Gary Ringrose

Have to say I'm happy with almost every aspect of that.

Madigan at 12 is interesting, plenty of youth on the bench. A start for VDF is great, I think Jordi definitely needs a break. Likewise Healy, although Michael Bent seems to have plummeted down the pecking order.

Biggest game for Luke McGrath to date?

errlloyd · 26-11-2015 1:17pm

former total wrote: »

Biggest game for Luke McGrath to date?

This is a kind of funny way to look at it, but in the last 3 weeks Luke has two subs 1 start, Reddan 1 and 1, and Boss 1 and 0. Certainly seems like he's being integrated.

molloyjh · 26-11-2015 1:26pm

former total wrote: »

Have to say I'm happy with almost every aspect of that.

Madigan at 12 is interesting, plenty of youth on the bench. A start for VDF is great, I think Jordi definitely needs a break. Likewise Healy, although Michael Bent seems to have plummeted down the pecking order.

Biggest game for Luke McGrath to date?

Yeah it's pretty positive all right. Not sure what is going on with Bent. He was an absolute rock for us at times last year. But he isn't the most dynamic of players so maybe that is hurting his selection chances?

You'd like to think that our pack will be on top and with the guys he has outside him McGrath will hopefully put in a good showing. He hasn't played much with Jonny so that might hamper him a little, but it is a huge game as you said. It could see him promoted to first choice if he does well.

If I was to be really picky I might look for Marsh in the 22 shirt, but I can understand why he isn't there so it's no great shakes. Let's hope we get the performance we want and need, because we're almost certainly going away to Glasgow with a load of internationals being rested.

former total · 26-11-2015 1:28pm

errlloyd wrote: »

This is a kind of funny way to look at it, but in the last 3 weeks Luke has two subs 1 start, Reddan 1 and 1, and Boss 1 and 0. Certainly seems like he's being integrated.

Yeah, I suppose I meant it's his biggest start, I think?

Anywho, here's the Ulster team:

(15-9): Peter Nelson, Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson, Ruan Pienaar; (1-8): Kyle McCall, Rory Best (captain), Wiehahn Herbst, Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Robbie Diack, Sean Reidy, Nick Williams;
Replacements (16-23): Rob Herring, Andrew Warwick, Ricky Lutton, Roger Wilson, Chris Henry, Paul Marshall, Ian Humphreys, Louis Ludik.

Clegg · 26-11-2015 1:35pm

Both teams look fairly strong. Are Kearney or Murphy injured or just dropped/rotated?5 Ringrose in the 23 is encouraging. Shows Cullen wants to give him minutes somewhere.

sheep? · 26-11-2015 1:46pm

Great looking team, and delighted for VdF. You get the feeling this is the moment for him to kick on now. Also Furlong starting!

Only thing I would have liked to have seen is Ringrose and Zane switch places.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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