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Put on Wage Subsidy Scheme - Will this affect mortgage application?

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    #62
    GalwayyGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭GalwayyGirl


    Has anyone heard from any bank about drawdown when in receipt of the EWSS top up from September?

    I understand that the EWSS subsidy payment won’t show up on payslips but I haven’t got an update from any of the banks as to whether they will accept it and permit drawdown.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    How can a job be secure and a company be down 30% turnover at the same time?

    You may be indispensable to your employer. No use if your employer goes bust.

    Some of the posters seem to think employers are availing of the scheme for the craic.

    A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

    The people I’m talking about are in business that will always be needed, there might be a bit of a dip now but once things ramp up again business will return to normal and they have plenty of guaranteed work to keep things ticking over while covid is around. They also would be towards the top of the pecking order so very far from any risk of being a person let go if it did come to it.


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    #64
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

    What are you talking about?
    Of course a business is at risk with such a shock.

    If a business needs to enter this scheme they are in Trouble.
    This scheme is keeping many employers from cutting staff.
    (creative book-keeping aside)

    Very longstanding, reputable and substantial businesses went to the wall from 2007 to 2012.
    Serious international names have already bitten the dust due to Covid.

    Covid isn't over. There will be more shocks and more knock on effects.

    The banks cannot lend to those who might lose their jobs or whose companies may go bust. We'd be bailing the useless ****ers out AGAIN!!


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    #65
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

    The people I’m talking about are in business that will always be needed, there might be a bit of a dip now but once things ramp up again business will return to normal and they have plenty of guaranteed work to keep things ticking over while covid is around. They also would be towards the top of the pecking order so very far from any risk of being a person let go if it did come to it.

    Even if it is true that a business is not at risk with a 30% income drop, how is the bank meant to know which employees are safe and which will be let go?


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    #66
    greengrass88
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭greengrass88


    GalwayyGirl wrote: »
    Has anyone heard from any bank about drawdown when in receipt of the EWSS top up from September?

    I understand that the EWSS subsidy payment won’t show up on payslips but I haven’t got an update from any of the banks as to whether they will accept it and permit drawdown.

    I was told by about 5 banks and 2 brokers no drawdown until you have 1 payslip where you are off the EWSS. Banks will likely look for letters from employers confirming they are not on the scheme.


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    #67
    lomb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭lomb


    Also its a minimum of 30% drop in ongoing month to month turnover exlcuding the lockdown months. Basically a business would have to be up the creek without a paddle to be claiming this. The twss was different it was a 25% drop but in the lockdown months when most businesses would have qualified I guess.


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    #68
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    lomb wrote: »
    Also its a minimum of 30% drop in ongoing month to month turnover exlcuding the lockdown months. Basically a business would have to be up the creek without a paddle to be claiming this. The twss was different it was a 25% drop but in the lockdown months when most businesses would have qualified I guess.

    It would depend on the business model. I would expect a lot solicitors and accountants etc who would do the work and bill later down the line on completion of the file would be affected in that they wouldn’t have had as much files a few months ago so wouldn’t be billing as much now. It could end of year before they are back to normal levels.

    I do expect the banks to request letters from employers confirming if you are on the new payment to get around the fact they won’t know from the payslip.


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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dolbhad wrote: »
    It would depend on the business model. I would expect a lot solicitors and accountants etc who would do the work and bill later down the line on completion of the file would be affected in that they wouldn’t have had as much files a few months ago so wouldn’t be billing as much now. It could end of year before they are back to normal levels.

    I do expect the banks to request letters from employers confirming if you are on the new payment to get around the fact they won’t know from the payslip.

    These are the types of business I’m referring to. No danger whatsoever of going bust but may be on the scheme for now until everything picks up again when things start getting back to normal.


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    #70
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,456 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I'm seeing guards having to get letters from their employer saying they didn't get any Covid payment's. Banks are getting cautious when that happens


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    #71
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Can't think of worse examples than solicitors or accountants. Well maybe musicians or publicans

    We're definitely looking at a slow down and probably a recession.
    Accountants get much less work and definitely much less income in recessions.

    Most solicitors rely on property transactions for fees.
    There could yet be a slow down in property sales and in a full in recession a complete collapse

    The banks need to look past the first 3 months repayments.


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    #72
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    These are the types of business I’m referring to. No danger whatsoever of going bust but may be on the scheme for now until everything picks up again when things start getting back to normal.

    Who says we're going back to normal?
    The banks don't know if we are or not.

    I see 2 hotel schemes put in ice this week.


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    #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Who says we're going back to normal?
    The banks don't know if we are or not.

    I see 2 hotel schemes put in ice this week.

    Many parts of the economy are booming, only a limited section is impacted. Even if there is a minor recession (and that’s a big “if”) it will be nothing like a normal recession as it will not impact many of the areas normally impacted and it will not be as long it deep rooted.

    Rents and property prices aren’t even falling which plummet in recessions. The biggest thing slowing down property sales are the banks so they are actually causing a slow down here so in fact are likely doing far more harm than good by not issuing mortgages.


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    #74
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Ok we obviously see this differently

    I'm struggling to think of an unaffected industry;maybe pharma, Lidl and Amazon? Binmen

    Tourism
    Air travel
    Pubs, restaurants, cafes
    Child care
    Construction and very much future construction,you wanna build a hotel or office block?
    Sales in particular motor
    Retail
    Meat factories
    Mushroom farms
    Professional services
    Any type of courses or grinds
    Anyone makes money from sport
    Nursing homes
    Barbers and hairdressers

    Edit
    The whole of Kildare!!


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    #75
    lomb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭lomb


    Aviation and hospitality are gone as is any tourism activity. High street retail other than food is also affected.
    Banks are impacted as losses will destroy capital affecting ability to lend. Construction is affected also. We saw what happened in the last recession when this happened.
    Also we are at the end of the business cycle so investment in machinery and capital is also seriously affected.
    Rental sector is affected also as unknown If tenants will pay rent if they cannot afford it.


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    #76
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    Many parts of the economy are booming, only a limited section is impacted. Even if there is a minor recession (and that’s a big “if”) it will be nothing like a normal recession as it will not impact many of the areas normally impacted and it will not be as long it deep rooted.

    Rents and property prices aren’t even falling which plummet in recessions. The biggest thing slowing down property sales are the banks so they are actually causing a slow down here so in fact are likely doing far more harm than good by not issuing mortgages.

    What are the many parts that are booming?


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Ok we obviously see this differently

    I'm struggling to think of an unaffected industry;maybe pharma, Lidl and Amazon? Binmen

    Tourism
    Air travel
    Pubs, restaurants, cafes
    Child care
    Construction and very much future construction,you wanna build a hotel or office block?
    Sales in particular motor
    Retail
    Meat factories
    Mushroom farms
    Professional services
    Any type of courses or grinds
    Anyone makes money from sport
    Nursing homes
    Barbers and hairdressers

    Edit
    The whole of Kildare!!

    A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

    We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

    Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.
    Thierry12 wrote: »
    What are the many parts that are booming?

    IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.


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    #78
    greengrass88
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭greengrass88


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

    We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

    Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.



    IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.

    Would people imagine that working in an industry such a air travel/tourism would have a negative impact on getting a mortgage in the medium term? Say in 2021


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    greengrass88 wrote: »
    Would people imagine that working in an industry such a air travel/tourism would have a negative impact on getting a mortgage in the medium term? Say in 2021

    I would imagine it would.

    I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.


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    #80
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

    We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

    Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.



    IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.

    Government report on just how bad it is
    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0822/1160613-covid-business-reports/


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    #81
    greengrass88
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭greengrass88


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    I would imagine it would.

    I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.

    Agreed. Do you think that those industries will be looked at negatively even after the subsidy schemes are over in April?


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    #82
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »
    I would imagine it would.

    I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.

    If their employer has lost enough business for them to qualify for TWSS how can you say their jobs are secure


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    #83
    GalwayyGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭GalwayyGirl


    greengrass88 wrote: »
    I was told by about 5 banks and 2 brokers no drawdown until you have 1 payslip where you are off the EWSS. Banks will likely look for letters from employers confirming they are not on the scheme.

    Banks can hardly compel financial information from a third party (ie the employer)? Hopefully banks will simply ask to get all usual assurances in respect of the borrowers employment security (letter from employer, payslips, p60s etc) and will make a decision on the risk factor on a case by case basis.

    If the banks continue to put a hold on applicants who were impacted by covid (including subsidy receipients) until April 2021, it could pose a significant risk to sectors such as construction, legal, estate agents and banking.


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    #84
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Is there a list of employers in the public domain who are partaking in the wage subsidy scheme?


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    #85
    Sonrisa
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Sonrisa


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Is there a list of employers in the public domain who are partaking in the wage subsidy scheme?

    This is apparently going to be published when the scheme ends


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    #86
    greengrass88
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭greengrass88


    GalwayyGirl wrote: »
    Banks can hardly compel financial information from a third party (ie the employer)? Hopefully banks will simply ask to get all usual assurances in respect of the borrowers employment security (letter from employer, payslips, p60s etc) and will make a decision on the risk factor on a case by case basis.

    If the banks continue to put a hold on applicants who were impacted by covid (including subsidy receipients) until April 2021, it could pose a significant risk to sectors such as construction, legal, estate agents and banking.

    Honestly I'm not sure anymore as theres so much conflicting information. But I've been told a few times that banks will ask for letter from employers confirming if they are or are not getting that government support


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    #87
    GalwayyGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭GalwayyGirl


    Has anyone had any success in drawing down while one or both applicants are in receipt of the subsidy?

    We have wasted countless weeks now applying to additional banks that initially said there will be no issue with drawdown as they are dealing with subsidy receipients on a "case-by-case basis". All of the banks which have come back to us are requiring proof of non-receipt of the subsidy prior to drawdown (despite what they previously stated).

    Only one of us are in receipt of the subsidy payment (no threat to job security). We are have strong incomes, good savings and no debt. Despite this, we don't satisfy whatever critera they are using to assess our application on a 'case-by-case' basis.

    Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you.


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    #88
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    GalwayyGirl wrote: »
    Has anyone had any success in drawing down while one or both applicants are in receipt of the subsidy?

    We have wasted countless weeks now applying to additional banks that initially said there will be no issue with drawdown as they are dealing with subsidy receipients on a "case-by-case basis". All of the banks which have come back to us are requiring proof of non-receipt of the subsidy prior to drawdown (despite what they previously stated).

    Only one of us are in receipt of the subsidy payment (no threat to job security). We are have strong incomes, good savings and no debt. Despite this, we don't satisfy whatever critera they are using to assess our application on a 'case-by-case' basis.

    Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you.

    How people can still believe this is beyond me


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    #89
    Cushtie
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭Cushtie


    If I understand it correctly the TWSS is replaced from next week by the EWSS. If a company is in receipt of the EWSS this payment will not appear on the employees payslip.


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    #90
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Cushtie wrote: »
    If I understand it correctly the TWSS is replaced from next week by the EWSS. If a company is in receipt of the EWSS this payment will not appear on the employees payslip.

    The banks also know this
    So if a previous payslip showed TWSS then it will be assumed you are on EWSS unless you can get a letter proving otherwise.
    From the horses mouth ie a nephew working in EBS


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    #91
    GalwayyGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭GalwayyGirl


    brisan wrote: »
    The banks also know this
    So if a previous payslip showed TWSS then it will be assumed you are on EWSS unless you can get a letter proving otherwise.
    From the horses mouth ie a nephew working in EBS

    Most banks are now asking for a letter from the employer to confirm they are not in receipt of the subsidy.


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