Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

roadmaster · 08-05-2018 7:37pm

For a point defense system sometimes the Pc9’s are used I believe , would it be a big job for them to carry air to air missiles , how much training and expense would be involved?

ohnonotgmail · 08-05-2018 7:43pm

roadmaster wrote: »

For a point defense system sometimes the Pc9’s are used I believe , would it be a big job for them to carry air to air missiles , how much training and expense would be involved?

how could a PC9 ever get close enough to fire a missile at a TU-95? how can it catch up with a plane that can go nearly 200MPH faster than it?

banie01 · 08-05-2018 7:45pm

I'm all for buying/leasing a squadron of jets. Our position relative to Europe, The US and the main transatlantic shipping lanes really should dictate that we can field at the very least an interception capable aircraft.
Multirole would be nice but adds expense.

Gripen would fit our needs but whilst many will go worry about the expense of running fast jets and the associated infrastructure costs, I have yet to see anyone factor the costs of improving or in reality actually implementing a ground based air defense system to complement the hoped for jets.

Whilst we would hope never to be the target of aggression, our need for interceptors is based on the "what if?"
If we can logically argue a need for at least an interception capability, surely we can also extend that to ensuring that at least a credible ground based air defense system is acquired to ensure that at the very least the fields used for our basing needs are adequately covered?

By adequate I don't mean RBS-70 and Bofors!
Maybe netting civilian ATC radars with newly acquired Military radar along with something along the lines of NASAMS for something better than immediate point defence.

Psychlops · 08-05-2018 8:33pm

roadmaster wrote: »

For a point defense system sometimes the Pc9’s are used I believe , would it be a big job for them to carry air to air missiles , how much training and expense would be involved?

That would be interesting to find out, they have been used to deny airspace to civvy aircraft when VIP's are in the Country alright.

I doubt it would take much to wire them for missiles? The Tucano can be armed with missiles so why not the PC9?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9I4R_Wp9lLM/UGtsZD4pR_I/AAAAAAAATs4/HekueluHxEQ/s1600/a29_super_tucano.jpg

thomil · 09-05-2018 10:11am

roadmaster wrote: »

So when we get these nice fighter jets and we intercept a bear and say a hello what then? Id say we would head home for the evening and that would be that its not like we are going to shoot it down.

There's actually internationally agreed interception procedures, all depending on the situation. If a bomber, or any unknown and unidentified aircraft is merely passing through Ireland's Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ), the intercepting fighters would simply escort the intruder through that zone, thereby giving air traffic control a direct indication where any intruder is, and what he is doing.

Should the intruder be making a beeline straight into Irish airspace, meaning the airspace above the Republic, the intercept would be a bit more "aggressive" with the pilot of one of the two aircraft handling the intercept attempting to communicate with the intruder, something that may include warning shots, while the second interceptor keeps a nice distance, ready to lock onto the intruder with its radar, should it become necessary. Military aircrew tend to take notice when they find their aircraft being "painted" by a radar in fire control mode at point blank range.

I'm all for buying/leasing a squadron of jets. Our position relative to Europe, The US and the main transatlantic shipping lanes really should dictate that we can field at the very least an interception capable aircraft.
Multirole would be nice but adds expense.

Gripen would fit our needs but whilst many will go worry about the expense of running fast jets and the associated infrastructure costs, I have yet to see anyone factor the costs of improving or in reality actually implementing a ground based air defense system to complement the hoped for jets.

Whilst we would hope never to be the target of aggression, our need for interceptors is based on the "what if?"
If we can logically argue a need for at least an interception capability, surely we can also extend that to ensuring that at least a credible ground based air defense system is acquired to ensure that at the very least the fields used for our basing needs are adequately covered?

By adequate I don't mean RBS-70 and Bofors!
Maybe netting civilian ATC radars with newly acquired Military radar along with something along the lines of NASAMS for something better than immediate point defence.

It's not just that. Even if we "outsource" basic flight training to another country, say Sweden, there's still going to be the need for a unit here in Ireland that transitions the pilots who arrive from that training to operational flying in Ireland before sending them on to a front line unit, which would require another, smaller squadron in my eyes, set up of double seater fighters and a few "lighter" jets like the Hawk in my eyes. Setting up an actual Air Force is actually quite expensive and complex.

tac foley · 11-05-2018 11:35am

thomil wrote: »

Setting up an actual Air Force is actually quite VERY expensive and ASTONISHINGLY complex.

FIFY.

tac

roadmaster · 12-05-2018 12:58pm

I hate to be a kill joy but should be not try and get a 24/7 air corps operational first

tac foley · 12-05-2018 4:20pm

I have to agree with Roadmaster here. Right now, there is 100% zero infrastructure in place for ANY kind of fast jet air force. No pilots, no maintenance, no supply train - nothing.

You really would be starting from zero and going on up.

Apart from taking YEARS, at least five, to become a viable operationally-ready proposition, a permanent training facility and simulator would have to be installed to manage the continuation training without flying that is a vital part of modern fast jet operations. Then you'd need a whole new set of armourers and technicians for the armaments - guns and missiles - and their storage facilities, too Right now, the Irish Air Corps has neither the trained personnel not the facilities. I spoke about the cost of a simulator for a modern fast jet about four or more years ago, although I also noted that you could share somebody else's, providing, of course, that you also shared the aircraft that was being simulated.

Over the last few years that we've been talking about this, you will notice, I hope, that WE seem to have been the only people actually engaged in a discussion of this nature and subject.

There has been no evidence whatsoever that this problem has occupied the minds of anybody in your government, at any level, and for any time at all.

Does that offer a meaningful answer?

I rather think it does.

tac

roadmaster · 13-05-2018 8:35am

Talking about interceptor Aircraft what ever happened to the new long-range primary Radar coveny was going to buy a few years ago. Has that quietly being forgotten about?

sparky42 · 13-05-2018 2:28pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Talking about interceptor Aircraft what ever happened to the new long-range primary Radar coveny was going to buy a few years ago. Has that quietly being forgotten about?

That was stated as part of the 10 year WP, so it's still on the "list" but something that's down the list.

jonnybigwallet · 13-05-2018 6:32pm

Looks like things are getting very dangerous for our guys out in the Golan Heights. All the more reason to be able to call in an air strike if need arises.

Markcheese · 15-05-2018 10:36am

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Looks like things are getting very dangerous for our guys out in the Golan Heights. All the more reason to be able to call in an air strike if need arises.

From where exactly?
Are you suggesting that as well as a whole new airforce that Ireland should have ( and protect) a whole airbase... In the golan..... In Syria??

ohnonotgmail · 15-05-2018 10:39am

Markcheese wrote: »

From where exactly?
Are you suggesting that as well as a whole new airforce that Ireland should have ( and protect) a whole airbase... In the golan..... In Syria??

sure why not buy an aircraft carrier as well and stick it in the eastern med?

jonnybigwallet · 15-05-2018 10:41am

And of course...a carrier strike force to accompany and protect it. 4 destroyers and a couple of submarines should do the job.

ohnonotgmail · 15-05-2018 10:53am

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

And of course...a carrier strike force to accompany and protect it. 4 destroyers and a couple of submarines should do the job.

and a guided missile cruiser for air defence.

jonnybigwallet · 15-05-2018 11:04am

Would one be enough do you think? Or should we order a couple just to be on the safe side?

ohnonotgmail · 15-05-2018 11:05am

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Would one be enough do you think? Or should we order a couple just to be on the safe side?

The USN only include 1 in a carrier strike group so i think we should be ok.

Markcheese · 15-05-2018 12:23pm

Ah no, we'd need the 2 carrier groups, shure 1mightnt be available...

sparky42 · 15-05-2018 12:34pm

In the meantime in reality the RFP for the CASA replacements has gone out.

jonnybigwallet · 18-05-2018 7:54am

That's a very interesting development. Any idea which aircraft manufacturers are on the bidders list?

sparky42 · 18-05-2018 12:09pm

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

That's a very interesting development. Any idea which aircraft manufacturers are on the bidders list?

Looking at the requirements (has to be in production currently or the last 3 years, no "in development planes") I'd say it's tailored for the CASA 295. The KC 390 is still in development (and they just wrote one of the two test aircraft off) and the C 27 is out of production currently.

roadmaster · 18-05-2018 1:36pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Looking at the requirements (has to be in production currently or the last 3 years, no "in development planes") I'd say it's tailored for the CASA 295. The KC 390 is still in development (and they just wrote one of the two test aircraft off) and the C 27 is out of production currently.

Do they have to be spanking new just off the forecourt or could second hand air frames with low hours be considered?

sparky42 · 18-05-2018 6:01pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Do they have to be spanking new just off the forecourt or could second hand air frames with low hours be considered?

It's still just the RFP at the moment, so I guess we won't know until we get to the Tender stage, suppose it will come down to price and timing.

jonnybigwallet · 18-05-2018 6:32pm

Hope they buy some bang spanking new ones

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-05-2018 12:10am

You have to commend the Swedes (pop of just 9m, or so) on building their own fast fighter jets, quick assembley furniture and even very decent cars.

But news this week that they've released an updated booklet for war prep after 30yrs, is a bit concerning.
https://www.thelocal.se/20180521/sweden-releases-updated-booklet-of-war-precautions Link to EN PDF file near bottom.

Catchphrases of the booklet 'resistance is required'. And this cheery aul note:
'We will never give up, all information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false'

Cool, probably just a case of over anxiety in a country undergoing some radical transformations,
but if they ever broadcast a signal with short bursts for 1min, that means shovel and start digging a hole.

Well that's Stockholm off the holijay list now, well it kinda was already.

BoJack Horseman · 22-05-2018 1:12pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

You have to commend the Swedes (pop of just 9m, or so) on building their own fast fighter jets, quick assembley furniture and even very decent cars.

But news this week that they've released an updated booklet for war prep after 30yrs, is a bit concerning.
https://www.thelocal.se/20180521/sweden-releases-updated-booklet-of-war-precautions Link to EN PDF file near bottom.

Catchphrases of the booklet 'resistance is required'. And this cheery aul note:
'We will never give up, all information to the effect that resistance is to cease is false'

Cool, probably just a case of over anxiety in a country undergoing some radical transformations,
but if they ever broadcast a signal with short bursts for 1min, that means shovel and start digging a hole.

Well that's Stockholm off the holijay list now, well it kinda was already.

Read the PDF, it mentioned what to do in the event of seeing the climate change and if 'fake news' happens.

Laughable stuff.

sparky42 · 22-05-2018 1:27pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Read the PDF, it mentioned what to do in the event of seeing the climate change and if 'fake news' happens.

Laughable stuff.

Given how Russia has been using information warfare to press their advantages I won't dismiss the warning of "fake news" from one of it's neighbours. Sweden is certainly realigning back to Cold War practices and it's focused on the hostile threat of Russia.

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-05-2018 1:54pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Read the PDF, it mentioned what to do in the event of seeing the climate change and if 'fake news' happens.

Laughable stuff.

They also mention storing water in jerry cans, not easy to get the whiff of petrol out of those yokes.

Listed items as part of their 'total defence' under foods: i) cheese spread ii) soft cheese and iii) hard cheese. That's fine if you're into post-apocalyptic cheese n' wine dinner parties.

Reflecting their changing society, that have also listed hummus. One strange item is 'blueberry and rosehip soup', la de da.

Anyway expect sales of cheeses to rocket, within the 4.2m households getting the new leaflet in the post shortly.

On the plus side that have nearly a hundred Saab Gripens. Which they're ideally located to have, flying about their 2,000km length of mid-European Scandiland.

tac foley · 22-05-2018 4:17pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

On the plus side that have nearly a hundred Saab Gripens. Which they're ideally located to have, flying about their 2,000km length of mid-European Scandiland.

Sir, you obviously have a different world view than I do, if you think that Sweden is 'mid-European'.

Last time I looked it was the largest country in Scandinavia - the Northernmost part of Europe that extends well into the Arctic Circle.

Middle European is classed as Austria/Switzerland/Luxembourg/Hungary and the two Czechs.

As for what this population of 9 million does to generate sufficient funds to run a pretty substantial air force, army and navy as well as a coastguard, let's not overlook for a minute that they actually BUILD 99% of their military equipment themselves [and sell it to to many other nations] and have a vast industrial infrastructure to back it all up.

Sweden's GDP for 2016 was $511 Billion - is it necessary to say any more?

tac

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-05-2018 9:12pm

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, you obviously have a different world view than I do, if you think that Sweden is 'mid-European'.

Last time I looked it was the largest country in Scandinavia - the Northernmost part of Europe that extends well into the Arctic Circle.

Middle European is classed as Austria/Switzerland/Luxembourg/Hungary and the two Czechs.

As for what this population of 9 million does to generate sufficient funds to run a pretty substantial air force, army and navy as well as a coastguard, let's not overlook for a minute that they actually BUILD 99% of their military equipment themselves [and sell it to to many other nations] and have a vast industrial infrastructure to back it all up.

Sweden's GDP for 2016 was $511 Billion - is it necessary to say any more?

tac

Sorry, just to clarify, mid-european in the 'longitude' sense. About half-way between Western Europe and the 'cold front' (all be it in the Northern area of the EU).

Whilst they sell some planes, it's often to close neighbours. The French, UK, US and others generally keep their technical know-how to themselves, with a big footprint on the larger export markets.

9m is still considered a 'small' population in world terms, but they sure do well indeed considering that fact.

Ireland with a pop of 4.7m and 5th in the world for GDP-IMF-PPP $79,924 -builds very little in the mechnical industrial or transport sense. Maybe some farm machinery/parts but that's it (Sweden is ranked 17th with $53,077).

Not suggesting the regional technical colleges get to work on flying stealth machine handbooks, but something handy like hyperloop tech or e-bikes/cars which might pay for itself.

Another funny from the Swe booklet is to stock up on 'car radios', all cars have radios already, don't they? Is it implying stocking up on a stack of old AM/FM/Cassette 12v blaupunkts, along with the 3 types of cheese^?

Tigger · 22-05-2018 9:13pm

Ellen Thankful Lavender wrote: »

Kinda holed your own canoe with that one.

Even so, in a country with over 3,000 homeless children one will have a difficult time persuading people to spend tens or hundreds of millions on jets to "defend our own airpsace" against something.

That’s with an interesting definition of homeless

tac foley · 22-05-2018 9:30pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

Another funny from the Swe booklet is to stock up on 'car radios', all cars have radios already, don't they?

They are not talking about regular car radios, they are suggesting that you obtain two-way radio communicaton sets á la CB radio.

Some people make a lot of fun of the Swedes - Swedish chef of the Muppets comes to mind - and the Americans have lots of jokes about Sven and his buddies, but they are not dummies. Anything you see with SAAB-Scania on it, or Hagglund, or Bofors, or Volvo, or Svensson, comes from Sweden. So does much more that is not so obvious in the electronic warfare field.

Every round of Norma ammunition shot by Irish sportsmen is made in Sweden. Every round of ammunition of all calibres fired by the Swedish armed forces is made in Sweden. Heck, they even make their own artillery up to 155mm and multiple rocket-launchers, and the world's fastest-into-action wheeled artillery system...not too bad for a bunch of funny people, I'd say. Every rifle and carbine in the Swedish military is made right there in Sweden, and every rifle with Carl Gustaf or Husqvarna stamped on it is Swedish. I'm going to stop there, since the RoI does none of this, in spite of being better off, on paper, at least.

tac

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-05-2018 9:46pm

tac foley wrote: »

They are not talking about regular car radios, they are suggesting that you obtain two-way radio communicaton sets á la CB radio.

Some people make a lot of fun of the Swedes - Swedish chef of the Muppets comes to mind - but they are not dummies. Anything you see with SAAB-Scania on it, or Hagglund, or Bofors, or Volvo, comes from Sweden. So does much more that is not so obvious in the electronic warfare field.

tac

Ah strange they didn't state hand-held '2-way', PSR, PMR, PSB, CB radio instead of 12v car radio, unless that's the norm there in Volvos.

Low range MHz is indeed probably the only thing that would still work without a network. (Assuming it's portable, USB/dynamo chargeable and stored in a faraday cage).

As stated already, they are to be commended on their heavy industrial manufacturing.

No mention of 'iodine tablets', conditioner risk, or 45° shelters in the booklet though?

tac foley · 22-05-2018 11:41pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

Ah strange they didn't state hand-held '2-way', PSR, PMR, PSB, CB radio instead of 12v car radio, unless that's the norm there in Volvos.

Low range MHz is indeed probably the only thing that would still work without a network. (Assuming it's portable, USB/dynamo chargeable and stored in a faraday cage).

As stated already, they are to be commended on their heavy industrial manufacturing.

No mention of 'iodine tablets', conditioner risk, or 45° shelters in the booklet though?

Dear Mr Winter Melodic Beehive - please point me at the Citizens' Survival documentation published by the government of the Republic of Ireland in case of a national emergency.

TIA

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 11:46pm

tac foley wrote: »

Dear Mr Accumulator - please point me at the Citizens' Survival documentation published by the government of the Republic of Ireland in case of a national emergency.

TIA

They distributed an A4 sheet of paper with "Ah sure it'll be grand" to every house in the country

gctest50 · 22-05-2018 11:46pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

......

Another funny from the Swe booklet is to stock up on 'car radios', all cars have radios already, don't they? Is it implying stocking up on a stack of old AM/FM/Cassette 12v blaupunkts, along with the 3 types of cheese^?

EMP pulse from a high altitude blast will knock out car radios that are installed -maybe

A solar storm knocked out Quebec power :

https://edubirdie.com/blog/sun-darkness

tac foley · 23-05-2018 2:13pm

Those of us in Ontario had a great laff about that. Very sorry for all those poor folks that were really reliant on hydro at the time, but in general, anything that happens in the rest of Canada is a totally 'nothin' t'do wid'us' as far as our dear neighbours are concerned.

The only time I go to QC is to act as an interpreter for members of my non-Francophone family, and even I often have a hard time.

tac

roadmaster · 23-05-2018 2:21pm

whatever about fighter jets if you look at fr24 the cadets seam to have some craic looking at there flight paths in the PC9's

jonnybigwallet · 05-06-2018 8:38am

The Alenia Aermacchi M 346 looks pretty affordable and fast into the bargain. Been around a while so well proven and in service with a number of air forces.

4068ac1elhodqr · 06-06-2018 11:11pm

Says on the news-tabliods, that x4 of those new shinny F35 yokes just landed from US to Eng tonight.
Cost Estimates are up to £150m each, and they pledged to purchase x138 of them.

£20,700,000,000 could buy rather a few new schools, hospitals and beat bobbies.

prinzeugen · 07-06-2018 12:21am

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

Says on the news-tabliods, that x4 of those new shinny F35 yokes just landed from US to Eng tonight.
Cost Estimates are up to £150m each, and they pledged to purchase x138 of them.

£20,700,000,000 could buy rather a few new schools, hospitals and beat bobbies.

Take it you have been reading the comments section of the Daily Mail or watching RT.

The cost is a lifetime cost.

They can fly in bad weather. This was a ferry flight in peacetime so safety comes first. The want calm seas to increase the chances of a downed pilot being rescued.

Good weather makes refuelling easier. 10-12 on the trip by two tankers. No the F-35 does not have small tanks. They want to keep the tanks as full as possible just incase something goes wrong. The F-35 then has 2000 miles worth of fuel to divert.

Its not a bag of bolts as the Russian trolls keep calling it.

Israel flew one over Iran and the super-duper Russian F-35 killing missiles did not even know it was there. I would say Putin is embarrassed by this after all his boasts.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a20872619/israel-first-f-35-combat-mission/

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-06-2018 12:37am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Take it you have been reading the comments section of the Daily Mail or watching RT.

The cost is a lifetime cost.

They can fly in bad weather. This was a ferry flight in peacetime so safety comes first. The want calm seas to increase the chances of a downed pilot being rescued.

Good weather makes refuelling easier. 10-12 on the trip by two tankers. No the F-35 does not have small tanks. They want to keep the tanks as full as possible just incase something goes wrong. The F-35 then has 2000 miles worth of fuel to divert.

Its not a bag of bolts as the Russian trolls keep calling it.

Israel flew one over Iran and the super-duper Russian F-35 killing missiles did not even know it was there. I would say Putin is embarrassed by this after all his boasts.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a20872619/israel-first-f-35-combat-mission/

Yep the Mail ran it as their headline story. But some comments suggest 'Lifetime use' may only be 10yrs before technology (detection) superseeds it's USP effectiveness.

It currently can't ping any ships without making itself known, and is considered as one of the most expensive, clumsy, delayed and painstaking engineering projects in the history of mankind.

The next generation after this will probably be pilotless autonomous, so no worries about g-forces, training, human error or packed lunches.

x138 of them, could probably inflict some pain on the Argies all the same. Or if the whole Brexit thing goes sour in the coming decade.

prinzeugen · 07-06-2018 12:58am

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

Yep the Mail ran it as their headline story. But some comments suggest 'Lifetime use' may only be 10yrs before technology (detection) superseeds it's USP effectiveness.

It currently can't ping any ships without making itself known, and is considered as one of the most expensive, clumsy, delayed and painstaking engineering projects in the history of mankind.

The next generation after this will probably be pilotless autonomous, so no worries about g-forces, training, human error or packed lunches.

x138 of them, could probably inflict some pain on the Argies all the same. Or if the whole Brexit thing goes sour in the coming decade.

Thats the thing about the F-35. Its an ongoing, evolving program over the next 40-50 years.

The 138th RAF plane will be very different to the ones that arrived in the UK today. The UK are not buying 138 in one go and there will not be 138 in service at the same time.

138 over a number of decades. When a block is life expired, a new block will be built.

Same with the Eurofighter. Some tranche 1 planes are being scrapped as tranche 4 planes are delivered.

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-06-2018 1:21am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Thats the thing about the F-35. Its an ongoing, evolving program over the next 40-50 years.

The 138th RAF plane will be very different to the ones that arrived in the UK today. The UK are not buying 138 in one go and there will not be 138 in service at the same time.

138 over a number of decades. When a block is life expired, a new block will be built.

Same with the Eurofighter. Some tranche 1 planes are being scrapped as tranche 4 planes are delivered.

40-50yrs time it'll be all that hypersonic anti-gravitational, ion-propulsion, inter-planetary jazz.

Guess if you asked folks on the streets of Ldn what they would want '£150m a pop' spend on, it might involve - reducing the 1,000% (3yr) rise in moped crime gangs, and stopping the 21% (single year) rise in general voilent crime. Not forgetting the daily zombie blade wavers claiming 70 or so this year.

Even funny man michael mcintyre isn't laughing about it now.

prinzeugen · 07-06-2018 2:05am

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

40-50yrs time it'll be all that hypersonic anti-gravitational, ion-propulsion, inter-planetary jazz.

Guess if you asked folks on the streets of Ldn what they would want '£150m a pop' spend on, it might involve - reducing the 1,000% (3yr) rise in moped crime gangs, and stopping the 21% (single year) rise in general voilent crime. Not forgetting the daily zombie blade wavers claiming 70 or so this year.

Even funny man michael mcintyre isn't laughing about it now.

Stop reading the comments section of the Daily Mail.

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-06-2018 2:50am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Stop reading the comments section of the Daily Mail.

What about the Metropolitan police's (who's budget is down 20% since 2010) own comments - that say the number of such offences (Moped-enabled crime) has risen from just over 1,000 in 2014 to more than 19,000 in the year to last September, with 2018 looking worse still. Approx 60 per day! Send in the jets.

sparky42 · 07-06-2018 2:49pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

What about the Metropolitan police's (who's budget is down 20% since 2010) own comments - that say the number of such offences (Moped-enabled crime) has risen from just over 1,000 in 2014 to more than 19,000 in the year to last September, with 2018 looking worse still. Approx 60 per day! Send in the jets.

You are aware that the UK's defence budget has been equally gutted over the years to the point that there's significant gaps/weaknesses?

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-06-2018 3:12pm

sparky42 wrote: »

You are aware that the UK's defence budget has been equally gutted over the years to the point that there's significant gaps/weaknesses?

Yes, they spent 1.98% instead of the of '2% of GDP'.

Meanwhile Tory austerity sees 3,000 computers with internet stripped from libraries, a NHS on it's knees and an upcoming small Brexit tab to pay for.

Today, Khan demands another 6,000 officers, and blames the Tory's cuts. Ms Dick even described the recent spate of knife crime in London as a "horrible phenomenon"... that there was no doubt that "reduced numbers of officers on the street" (-21,000 since 2010, E&W) had had an impact.

But look at those nice shinny jets, just in time for the next TopGun movie (they won't be using them in it).

sparky42 · 07-06-2018 4:32pm

Winter Melodic Beehive wrote: »

Yes, they spent 1.98% instead of the of '2% of GDP'.

Meanwhile Tory austerity sees 3,000 computers with internet stripped from libraries, a NHS on it's knees and an upcoming small Brexit tab to pay for.

Today, Khan demands another 6,000 officers, and blames the Tory's cuts. Ms Dick even described the recent spate of knife crime in London as a "horrible phenomenon"... that there was no doubt that "reduced numbers of officers on the street" (-21,000 since 2010, E&W) had had an impact.

But look at those nice shinny jets, just in time for the next TopGun movie (they won't be using them in it).

If you think that's all the cuts the UK forces have taken you are totally ignoring the time period since the Tories came into power, the RN can barely put together a strike group at this stage, the RAF had to retire both their MPA's and Harriers unreplaced, and the Army has seen 10's of thousands of people cut.

There's no question the UK has problems, I fail to see how you think the F35 buy is the answer to any of that however, also I fail to see why you are complaining on an Irish forum about it?

jonnybigwallet · 07-06-2018 4:37pm

Hear Hear!

Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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