A slice of ham in the school lunch box, is like sending them to school with 5 fags

alps · 20-01-2019 6:44pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Nope, truth doesn't exist. I'm including a link to a nutrient analysis of the diet recommended by that body.
https://www.foodandfarmingfutures.co.uk/PrestoMobile#/details/ZWVhNzBlY2QtZWJjNi00YWZiLWE1MTAtNWExOTFiMjJjOWU1LjE4MzM3
You'd imagine after all that time and effort in producing a report on diet, the most basic aspect of diet, does it contain sufficient nutrients to feed those following it, would have been foremost in their mind?

Obviously not.

From my calculations current world milk production will not provide the required daily milk intake advised in this report...it advises 250g/day..

World production of milk equates to 78 litres per head of population but the above requirement equates to91litres..

We'll just have to produce more

Dakota Dan · 20-01-2019 6:59pm

Another link about the report being flawed.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201901/eat-lancets-plant-based-planet-10-things-you-need-know%3famp

coolshannagh28 · 20-01-2019 8:05pm

I would like to see how the emissions from cows stack up against transport , energy production (peat fired) and big business, while there is no doubt that we need to amend and balance our diets this will be a slow journey taking decades. I am somewhat reminded ot the theories of Malthus who in the 1800s predicted that the world would not be able to food itself as population increased but was proven wrong by advances in agriculture.

Good loser · 20-01-2019 11:38pm

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

I would like to see how the emissions from cows stack up against transport , energy production (peat fired) and big business, while there is no doubt that we need to amend and balance our diets this will be a slow journey taking decades. I am somewhat reminded ot the theories of Malthus who in the 1800s predicted that the world would not be able to food itself as population increased but was proven wrong by advances in agriculture.

I believe the carbon in methane (CH4) only lasts 12 years in the atmosphere while the carbon from CO2 is more or less permanent.

coolshannagh28 · 21-01-2019 12:04am

Good loser wrote: »

I believe the carbon in methane (CH4) only lasts 12 years in the atmosphere while the carbon from CO2 is more or less permanent.

I haven't researched it but what are the volumes involved ? Is it something that can be addressed meaningfully before 2020 ,I doubt it and while the demand for meat may fall it will be a very slow process .
I also wonder at the logic of the Taoiseach at the behest of lobby groups challenging an industry which kept the wheels on the bike after the crash when we had few friends.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 21-01-2019 12:04am

Good loser wrote: »

I believe the carbon in methane (CH4) only lasts 12 years in the atmosphere while the carbon from CO2 is more or less permanent.

Kind of. Methane is a non story, cattle numbers peaked in 1989 and are down 100m since then. And methane produced every year more or less replaces methane broken down so it remains constant in terms of cattle emissions.

The extra carbon in the CO2 comes from stored carbon, basically hydrocarbons being burned for energy production and transportation. Our high energy lifestyles and culture are the main causes of global climate change but cattle are an easy target.

Say my name · 21-01-2019 12:27am

Good loser wrote: »

I believe the carbon in methane (CH4) only lasts 12 years in the atmosphere while the carbon from CO2 is more or less permanent.

Ah it's not permanent.
Plants on land absorb co2 while they're growing and use that carbon for their physical structure and grasses same thing only they pump carbon into the soil via their relationships with fungi and bacteria.
If the plant dies and rots it'll release that carbon back into the atmosphere along with methane.
However if that plant is cooked at high temperatures without oxygen to burn it (pyrolysis) the carbon in that plant is now secure from degradation/rotting for perhaps thousands of years.
During the northern hemisphere summer and into autumn the world's co2 concentration in the atmosphere reduces slightly as the plants in the northern hemisphere take in that co2. It doesn't work as well the other way round as mostly the southern hemisphere is ocean.

Enchanced weathering is another manmade way of taking co2 out of the atmosphere. That is crushing basalt rock into a dust and applying that on land. The dust takes co2 and it turns into a bicarbonate and it then leaches into the soil.

The sea and algae and bacteria also take co2 from the atmosphere and one form of marine life, phytoplankton lives on the sea surface and works through photosynthesis and absorbs co2 and then when it dies it falls to the bottom of the sea turning into limestone trapping that carbon.

All life forms on earth are made of carbon and we either get it through photosynthesis or eat another life form that got it through photosynthesis or we eat that life form that ate that lifeform that got it through photosynthesis.

alps · 21-01-2019 12:45am

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Kind of. Methane is a non story, cattle numbers peaked in 1989 and are down 100m since then. And methane produced every year more or less replaces methane broken down so it remains constant in terms of cattle emissions.

The extra carbon in the CO2 comes from stored carbon, basically hydrocarbons being burned for energy production and transportation. Our high energy lifestyles and culture are the main causes of global climate change but cattle are an easy target.

Every farmer should repeat this 100 times until learned off by heart. It is up to each and every individual farmer to have this detail both to rubut the lies, and to educate ..

Thanks Buford

gozunda · 21-01-2019 3:01am

alps wrote: »

Every farmer should repeat this 100 times until learned off by heart. It is up to each and every individual farmer to have this detail both to rubut the lies, and to educate .
Thanks Buford

Don't forget that rice farming has only begun to be put under the spotlight in terms of methane production

"Rice farming twice as bad for climate as thought: Study"

http://zeenews.india.com/science/rice-farming-twice-as-bad-for-climate-as-thought-study-2140198.html

moneyheer · 21-01-2019 8:53am

I also wonder at the logic of the Taoiseach at the behest of lobby groups challenging an industry which kept the wheels on the bike after the crash when we had few friends .

. It was always said that eaten bread is soon forgotten!

CJhaughey · 21-01-2019 11:41am

I'm not a fan of the Redtop tabloids but the Mirror had a piece about the politics/money involved in this scam.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/globe-trotting-billionaire-behind-campaign-13872067

And there is a very interesting piece I read that debunks a lot of the pseudo science used in that report.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201901/eat-lancets-plant-based-planet-10-things-you-need-know

I really think the Lancet has taken a major downhill step with the publication of this stuff, as said before its not the publication it used to be and people have to learn to read between the lines to see the real picture.

_Brian · 21-01-2019 12:10pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

I'm not a fan of the Redtop tabloids but the Mirror had a piece about the politics/money involved in this scam.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/globe-trotting-billionaire-behind-campaign-13872067

And there is a very interesting piece I read that debunks a lot of the pseudo science used in that report.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201901/eat-lancets-plant-based-planet-10-things-you-need-know

I really think the Lancet has taken a major downhill step with the publication of this stuff, as said before its not the publication it used to be and people have to learn to read between the lines to see the real picture.

People are now only capable of reading g the 144 characters that exist in a click bait headline now. The between the lines truth is lost on rhem, they’ve read and believed the headline and moved onto the Kardashian’s next exploit already. All the after the fact debunking of these stories is only read and understood by a minority who probably didn’t really beleive the stupid headline anyway.

Humans as a species have become inherently stupid and conditioned to be drop fed articles that commercial enterprises want. In a way many are like battery chickens stacked 10 high in cages. All the technology to access a wealth of information has just made the masses stupider

gctest50 · 21-01-2019 12:20pm

He has a point though, some of that sliced ham looking stuff in plastic trays isn't good for you

Long way away from pig you cook yourself ( that isn't full of whatever industrial waste they can get away with)

Some manage with a bit of effort :

http://www.finnebrogue.com/naked/

CJhaughey · 21-01-2019 1:09pm

So I should really have said:

EAT/ Lancet is a load of old rubbish, funded by a hypocritical billionairess that wants to promote her lifestyle and take away your choice to live yours.
Lancet underfunded and EAT promised a load of cash if they went along with this study that contradicts itself.

Have a look at this blog, there is some funny videos showing exactly what they recommend in terms of meat quantities.
https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/

Say my name · 21-01-2019 2:47pm

This Lancet report was really a blessing in disguise.

Now we know from Twitter/facebook the lie of the land and what people really think they know. There's a few top environmentalists in this country have alienated themselves by jumping on the bandwagon. Even their former buddies in organic and regenerate grazing mixed species type have gotten browned off by them.
All's good.

older by the day · 21-01-2019 5:00pm

Heard this argument to day by a yank on a radio clip. He said one animal dies to make meat, while spray a field with round up, plough, disk harrow, spray numerous times for every disease, kill any slugs, snails, rabbits, wild animals that come near, harvest. Fly it a thousand miles, What is the carbon foot print of some vegetables? How many animals got killed, if a vegan thinks a cows life is the same as a human's, is a snail's life or a rabbit the same as a cow ?

Dakota Dan · 21-01-2019 6:26pm

84% of vegetarians/vegans go back to eating meat, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/most-vegetarians-lapse-after-only-year-180953565/

Farmer · 21-01-2019 6:33pm

older by the day wrote: »

Heard this argument to day by a yank on a radio clip. He said one animal dies to make meat, while spray a field with round up, plough, disk harrow, spray numerous times for every disease, kill any slugs, snails, rabbits, wild animals that come near, harvest. Fly it a thousand miles, What is the carbon foot print of some vegetables? How many animals got killed, if a vegan thinks a cows life is the same as a human's, is a snail's life or a rabbit the same as a cow ?

The thing that we are being forced to do wrong is to feed that 'vegetable', in the form of grain, to fatten cattle fast and young enough for the factories and supermarket's demand, rather than allowing them to mature a little more slowly on truly 'green' grass which leaves the rabbits and also carbon in the soil intact

So, back to the meat processors again

_Brian · 21-01-2019 6:47pm

Farmer wrote: »

The thing that we are being forced to do wrong is to feed that 'vegetable', in the form of grain, to fatten cattle fast and young enough for the factories and supermarket's demand, rather than allowing them to mature a little more slowly on truly 'green' grass which leaves the rabbits and also carbon in the soil intact

So, back to the meat processors again

We can’t fight capitalism, simple as.

It’s pockets are too deep and it’s influence reaches too far into all the decision making areanas.

Capatalism isn’t interested in good food, wildlife or the countryside. Profits are their primary comclcern and they will stomp on anyone or anything that restricts profits.

gozunda · 21-01-2019 7:05pm

_Brian wrote: »

We can’t fight capitalism, simple as.

It’s pockets are too deep and it’s influence reaches too far into all the decision making areanas. Capatalism isn’t interested in good food, wildlife or the countryside. Profits are their primary comclcern and they will stomp on anyone or anything that restricts profits.

We can definitly fight the bull**** though

We shall fight on our island, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our diaspora beyond the seas, armed and guarded by their might, will carry on the struggle, until, in good time, those of the land, with all their power and right, will step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the world!

.

Ahem I'll get my coat

Harry Palmr · 21-01-2019 7:12pm

Maybe farmers could adapt, think clever rather than post Churchill speeches to suggest an existential threat is posed by eating an evolved diet.

Eric Cartman · 21-01-2019 7:19pm

I realistically think this will help in the long run, now hear me out.

So at the moment our scenario is that most people eat meat, they just do it because its the done thing. All these vegan options and fake meat made in a lab are all expensive delicacies for bored middle aged housewives and college students fooled by ideology,

These products are all pretty new but soon will fall to the price point at which they are cheaper than adding meat to meat based products. You will start to see veganism / vegetarianism become more and more mainstream with the general public.

Then comes the rub, Its like a new designer handbag, its only cool until a girl from a council estate has one, then its not. With the lower end of the income band embracing a vegan / vegetarian diet (mostly on a cost basis as carbon taxes will make veggie sticks cheaper than a bag of frozen chicken nuggets) , The middle and upper classes will go back to meat as a delicacy. You won't have farmers with fresh corn fed chicken competing with chicken nuggets or in a race to the bottom on lidl shelves anymore, Meat will become a luxury product again, higher quality and higher price tags in toe, lower demand will eradicate the packers and producers for who a low price is their USP.

As the home of some of the finest meat and dairy in the world , without the use of as many hormones and chemicals as other countries, Ireland will see itself being a powerhouse of exporting an expensive, luxury product to the wealthier parts of the world.

500g of round steak mince costing 15 euro won't be an issue, the farmer can blame the carbon tax, the middle and aspirational classes will love that its a bit more exclusive than the universal veggie gruel and soy milk.

As a nation our farmers stand to profit heavily from it and leveraging brand Ireland, our heritage in meat production and quality and the lack of use of chemicals will secure us from charlatans re starting their low quality meat outlets. In the end I think we stand to win.

Eric Cartman · 21-01-2019 7:20pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Maybe farmers could adapt, think clever rather than post Churchill speeches to suggest an existential threat is posed by eating an evolved diet.

A load of money to be had growing hemp or cannabis legally if the government gets enough back bone to not listen to tobacco company lobbyists trying to set the standards astronomically high to keep farmers and entrepreneurs out of the running.

Harry Palmr · 21-01-2019 7:23pm

Yep, medicinal pot has plenty going for it as a cash crop if the market is allowed to exist.

Eric Cartman · 21-01-2019 7:29pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yep, medicinal pot has plenty going for it as a cash crop if the market is allowed to exist.

I think it is coming, already these CBD oils and hemp building and insulation blocks are being made. Our climate works for a lot of strains, its a quick yield and easy enough to grow. The biggest thing will be trying to get the IFA or somebody onboard to lobby that it should be for everyone and not just pharma / tobacco companies. It would be a great way to rejuvinate rural Ireland and thats before we even start on the ethical minefield of recreational use which even if just legal to grow and export (not sell or consume locally) would be a great earner for the 'green isle'

gozunda · 21-01-2019 7:51pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Maybe farmers could adapt, think clever rather than post Churchill speeches to suggest an existential threat is posed by eating an evolved diet.

Read what's implied tbh. But whatever - you do know what humour is? Existential ? ffs:rolleyes:

emaherx · 21-01-2019 8:02pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yep, medicinal pot has plenty going for it as a cash crop if the market is allowed to exist.

Think it would be near impossible to keep it in the fields.

Harry Palmr · 21-01-2019 10:19pm

It would be most appropriate if Ireland was the home of cannabis for medical use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brooke_O%27Shaughnessy

Eamonn8448 · 21-01-2019 11:15pm

Look it was always very simple to me and for the townies city folk you love to stick their noses into things they think they know about ill make it even simpler
Grass is a form of a carbon sink but its not digestible to humans However cattle sheep etc turn that grass (carbon store which keeps growing ) into a form of food that is digestible , yes vegans - MEAT and Dairy. The carbon cycle goes on as it always has and if anything i would say when all the figures have been added up its more carbon friendly than veg growing, ideally in veg we should be letting animals in to feed off the stubble leftovers but time and land constraints work against us. I must look up the carbon content of meat - which itself can be viewed as a carbon store ,Yes, basic formula of proteins building block amnio acid is CHON - where did that carbon come from ?
Its about time farmers stop the cherry picking from this lot and them them put all the figures on the table not just the ones they want to push. Methane CH4 is just another carbon molecule but how much of the overall carbon intake was used to form this ? Cant be alot because they keep growing :rolleyes:

Dakota Dan · 22-01-2019 12:20am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Maybe farmers could adapt, think clever rather than post Churchill speeches to suggest an existential threat is posed by eating an evolved diet.

Are you trying to say a vegan diet is an evolved diet?

A slice of ham in the school lunch box, is like sending them to school with 5 fags

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