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Buy house, don't pay mortgage, live rent-free for 9 years. MOD WARNING POST #268

24567…11

Comments

  • #52
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    You get what you can negotiate. It would be interesting to know the exactly details of how all the different deals worked out. But I doubt we will ever know.


  • #53
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Impossible to make any real comment on this case - sounds very complicated and all we have is very superficial information.

    If he tried to sell the houses 3-4 times and wanted to leave there isnt much more in could do

    Leaving for the sake of leaving the house would not have helped the situation


  • #54
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    JJJackal wrote: »
    If he tried to sell the houses 3-4 times and wanted to leave there isnt much more in could do

    Leaving for the sake of leaving the house would not have helped the

    The husband's 'defense' of the situation is full of holes.
    He said that they were told not to make payments on the house: Who told them that? Threshold? A friend down the road?

    He also claims that they tried to sell the house a number of times, but could not because the offers were not high enough. By not accepting these multiple offers, it allowed him and his family to continue living in the house without having to make any payments.
    His spin of the situation does not compute.


  • #55
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Kivaro wrote: »
    The husband's 'defense' of the situation is full of holes.
    He said that they were told not to make payments on the house: Who told them that? Threshold? A friend down the road?

    He also claims that they tried to sell the house a number of times, but could not because the offers were not high enough. By not accepting these multiple offers, it allowed him and his family to continue living in the house without having to make any payments.
    His spin of the situation does not compute.

    In this scenario, I imagine the bank dictates what offer is accepted?


  • #56
    Hoboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Kivaro wrote: »
    The husband's 'defense' of the situation is full of holes.
    He said that they were told not to make payments on the house: Who told them that? Threshold? A friend down the road?

    He also claims that they tried to sell the house a number of times, but could not because the offers were not high enough. By not accepting these multiple offers, it allowed him and his family to continue living in the house without having to make any payments.
    His spin of the situation does not compute.

    In this scenario, I imagine the bank dictates what offer is accepted?

    Exactly. The bank is more than happy with the the outcome, only ones that aren't are the outraged begrudgers.


  • #57
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Someone told him not to pay the interest - i am not sure he was every paying off the principle.

    If your loan was sold 3-4 times is it clear to whom you should be paying money? I have seen a query re a sold loan and to whom money should be paid on a previous thread

    I am sure the original bank (presumably Bank of Scotland) serviced the mortgage until they handed over the servicing to a new entity, who would then be ready and eager to receive payment. They would have to communicate all of this by letter, as part of the regulations.

    So, no I doubt there is any real excuse here for not paying a mortgage for the guts of a decade. What next, the dog ate the demands, come on.


  • #58
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Indeed, handy to say somebody told me not to pay my mortgage. I had the money, but I held it back. Disgraceful excuse really.

    I assume, someone told him there's no point paying if you've lost the house anyway. Makes no sense to pay it, until he knows what debt he actually has to pay. If they negotiates a debt free exit, he be a bit stupid to made any payment.

    Look at all the developers and banks which negotiated their way out off massive debts. Who gave them such a risky loan in the first place.


  • #59
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Apart from the whataboutery, the Banks did not default on massive debts. The Bank's debts are to the depositors, large yes and small, including pensions schemes and just ordinary people saving money. These were all fully secure throughout the crisis, albeit with temporary government support, and the Banks came out the other side of the crisis honouring their obligations to their creditors.

    People should watch It's a wonderful life at Christmas. My deposits go into your home, and that's the way the system works. Encouraging this kind of behaviour goes completely against these principles. It's new, and it was not the Irish way of doing business generally up to now.

    The banks were propped up.

    If they had been treated as people want the home owner (?) to be treated we'd have let them go to the wall.

    Double standards.


  • #60
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Off topic posts and general digs at the family in question have been deleted.

    Read the previous on thread warnings before posting.


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  • #61
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I don't know enough to make a moral judgement on any of this. But we don't have all the facts. I'm sure some accountant somewhere worked it out so it made sense.

    Someone worked out that the house would get more than the debt that was bought from the bank. So they might have made money on it and the bank wrote off the difference.


  • #62
    dubrov
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭dubrov


    beauf wrote:
    Someone worked out that the house would get more than the debt that was bought from the bank. So they might have made money on it and the bank wrote off the difference.

    Someone lost their shirt somewhere and we all know who picked up the tab


  • #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If its the bank I'm sure they made it back many times over with something else.

    Many people have gone bankrupt here or in a England, written off their debts and come back to start over.
    I don't get the faux horror at a debt being written off, or down. Theres been many high profile cases previously.

    I am surprised that institutions can give out very risky high loans, repeatedly but don't get any criticism, or attention from regulatory bodies at their business practises. We seem to be ok with that.


  • #64
    UsBus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-miss-ireland-pamela-flood-and-her-husband-may-face-jail-for-failing-to-leave-900k-home-936574.html

    Looks like this slippery couple have still not left the home they are refusing to pay for. I think we all know they will never be sent to jail for this. Maybe in other countries but not in a spineless country like Ireland where you can do what you want by tying the system up in knots.

    It's a shame because it's exactly what the Irish property market needs. To show there are consequences if you don't pay back a mortgage you agreed to.


  • #65
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Do the remaining debts and legal costs after the property is eventually sold, which we written off, now be back on the table?


  • #66
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I wonder if they are entitled to Free Legal Aid. All that legal advice and representation must be costing a pretty penny if not.

    I am sure there are many similar cases out there. Many.


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  • #67
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    "looney left"

    Christ almighty.


  • #68
    Greentree_uk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Greentree_uk


    This is so wrong and would only ever happen in Ireland


  • #69
    ToxicPaddy
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭ToxicPaddy


    Well they may have not paid their mortgage but from reading that article, they have had no real income, his restaurant business is gone, she is not presenting any more and they have 4 kids to look after.

    I'd say it was a case of the fund deciding the only way they will get anything out of this is to let them walk away. They might have bought the €1.2 million debt for 40% of its value and even after legal fees the fund could come out even the way the Irish property market is going.

    That €800k house could be fixed up for another €100k and sold for €1million plus in a few months or early next year.

    Whatever happens, the fund will come out on top and that couples credit rating will be shot to bits. Even with supposed €345k they could have saved from not paying a mortgage, it's unlikely they will be able to afford to buy anything in Dublin and getting a mortgage is out of the question after the publicity this has got.


  • #70
    jlm29
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    it's unlikely they will be able to afford to buy anything in Dublin and getting a mortgage is out of the question after the publicity this has got.

    They don’t need to live in Dublin if they have no jobs. The can move to Cavan or Donegal or somewhere else and live within their means. She can work in a shop and So can he, or whatever. The rest of us pay our way and don’t expect someone else to pick up the tab.


  • #71
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    jlm29 wrote: »
    They don’t need to live in Dublin if they have no jobs. The can move to Cavan or Donegal or somewhere else and live within their means. She can work in a shop and So can he, or whatever. The rest of us pay our way and don’t expect someone else to pick up the tab.

    They will qualify for HAP now, and can source their own property in the area of their choice in DCC area surely?


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  • #72
    GGTrek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    They will qualify for HAP now, and can source their own property in the area of their choice in DCC area surely?

    Good luck with finding a crazy enough landlord in Dublin that is willing to rent to this couple who is the definition of arrears and overholding.


  • #73
    Bigmac1euro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    Oopsie doopsie dooo

    https://jrnl.ie/4722772

    I for one, hope they get banged up. They are criminals they have stolen 300+k come on like.


  • #74
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Operators like this family are the ones we know about and are named. There are many others out there doing exactly the same thing, but media won't bother to report on them because they are not "famous".


  • #75
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    GGTrek wrote: »
    Good luck with finding a crazy enough landlord in Dublin that is willing to rent to this couple who is the definition of arrears and overholding.

    True, but they might be put up in a hotel, and eventually be given social housing. 4 kids will help their cause I reckon.

    Look, we don't know what will happen, but they have hard necks anyway. And they are not alone either.


  • #76
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    "The rest of us pay our way and don’t expect someone else to pick up the tab"

    Well, not exactly.......

    Fairly large cohort in Ireland who live off the taxpayer and never had the slightest intention of working or contributing in any way. For example, people who have 7 kids, sleep in Garda Stations. To (not) name a few.......

    That said, very curious as to how they are funding their legal battles. It costs a fortune to be represented- how are they paying?


  • #77
    slavetothegrind
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭slavetothegrind


    seasidedub wrote: »
    "The rest of us pay our way and don’t expect someone else to pick up the tab"

    Well, not exactly.......

    Fairly large cohort in Ireland who live off the taxpayer and never had the slightest intention of working or contributing in any way. For example, people who have 7 kids, sleep in Garda Stations. To (not) name a few.......

    That said, very curious as to how they are funding their legal battles. It costs a fortune to be represented- how are they paying?

    indeed , good question as there is no chance of them winning fees paid for them.


  • #78
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Greentree_uk wrote: »
    This is so wrong and would only ever happen in Ireland
    Why would it only happen in Ireland?


  • #79
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Exactly. The bank is more than happy with the the outcome, only ones that aren't are the outraged begrudgers.
    Yawn. It's perfectly reasonable for people who are struggling to pay the stupidly high rents to bristle at people not paying their mortgage at all.


  • #80
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Tacklebox wrote: »
    And if you're rubbing shoulders with celebs, attractive looking and have a lovely smile....

    I know a few similar couples in Clare who are living it up and haven't paid any of their mortgages in years.

    Still making money and going on holidays, new car's etc.

    There's definitely something wrong somewhere.
    No way should they have gotten away with that.

    I guarantee you, they'll get on with their lives and they'll not feel one bit of remorse, shame or guilt.

    It's just another day for the middle classes, laughing at everyone else.

    This will make that couple feel invincible now.

    They'll be celebrating and cracking open the champers, and they'll land on their feet.....
    Ah gway with the having a go at middle-class folk.

    It's the middle class and working class (some people seem to deem those who don't work, to be working class) who are the ones being screwed for doing everything right. It's those on either side who take the piss, and get away with it.


  • #81
    Wtf ?
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    See my post from a few days ago, Exactly the type of moochers I was talking about
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057993657


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  • #82
    Wtf ?
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    ToxicPaddy wrote: »
    Well they may have not paid their mortgage but from reading that article, they have had no real income, his restaurant business is gone, she is not presenting any more and they have 4 kids to look after.

    I am sure she presented and he was dishing up meals over the last 9 years ffs ! Load of bollix


  • #83
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Wtf ?, please improve the standard of your posts if you wish to continue posting in A & P.


  • #84
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    So they are no refusing to leave. And people wonder why mortgage rates are so high in this country.


  • #85
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    NIMAN wrote: »
    It does appear to prove the theory that the more you owe the more leeway you are given.

    These folk are allowed to walk away from over €1mill debt, yet if you owe €50,000 then they will chase you til its repaid.

    If you owed the credit union or bank 3k they would chase you to the ends of the earth. These 2 should owe the 9 years or mortgage. They also should be looking at doing time for deliberately not paying. Its that simple.


  • #86
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Wow. Totally didn’t see that coming. Absolutely expected them to vacate as agreed.


  • #87
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,510 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Werent they paying the interest off the mortgage for the 9 years?


  • #88
    irishguy1983
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭irishguy1983


    Fairly confused with this one...Why haven’t they paid anything for 9 years? Any valid reason? Why has it been allowed go for 9 years?


  • #89
    bri007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    This story gets better by the day. Why they haven’t vacated the house is baffling considering the way they got off lightly from a financial perspective (no lasting debt).

    One of my best mates bough in the height of the boom, had his own business but in downtown lost everything. Business and most importantly lost his house, he is back living with his parents and rebuilding his business slowly again. Problem is it’s all with his own money as the debt is still with him from the last business and house. The house was sold at a loss and the remainder of the balance debt stays with him so essentially he is paying for the house he doesn’t have.

    These two have got away very lightly compared to other people who lost their homes yet the debt stays with them.


  • #90
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    irishguy1983 wrote: »
    Fairly confused with this one...Why haven’t they paid anything for 9 years? Any valid reason? Why has it been allowed go for 9 years?

    Sense of entitlement?


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  • #91
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    irishguy1983 wrote: »
    Fairly confused with this one...Why haven’t they paid anything for 9 years? Any valid reason? Why has it been allowed go for 9 years?

    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?


  • #92
    UsBus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    Are you for real..?
    Maybe because they agreed to pay the loan back when they took the mortgage out..?
    You do realise that by them not paying anything back, you are paying extra..
    Hopefully they will be made an example out of..


  • #93
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    UsBus wrote: »
    Are you for real..?
    Maybe because they agreed to pay the loan back when they took the mortgage out..?
    They agreed that when the house was in positive equity. Now that it is in negative equity it doesn't seem like such a good idea.
    UsBus wrote: »
    You do realise that by them not paying anything back, you are paying extra..
    Hopefully they will be made an example out of..
    I am not selfish thinking of myself, only explaining why it is rational for them to behave as they have. I don't see how it is costing me anything extra in any event.


  • #94
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,510 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.


  • #95
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,942 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm not a fan of these two people but I remember the crash. I suffered huge financial loss myself due to being ill for a couple of years during it. I've gotten myself back to a debt free situation thankfully. The banks certainly weren't looking to help me though, they just wanted their money and my struggles with illness were unimportant.
    After my experience I'd never be taking the side of banks or vulture funds though. They screwed this country over and we all.paid a huge price and still are.
    While I understand the legal side of this whole affair there are children involved too.
    The legal profession is making a fortune off all this as well.
    There are no winners in this. Obviously the family involved don't have a pot to piss in. People are giving out about an unpaid mortgage but what about the legal costs which it looks like the taxpayer will foot the bill for? The legal costs appear to be nearly the price of the money owed which is insane.
    We are all getting conned by the banks, vulture funds and the legal profession.
    Imo the least important thing about this whole mess is the people who haven't vacated the property.


  • #96
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Those people are the ones who put themselves in the situation/caused it - stop with the diminishing of their role.


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  • #97
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭Damien360


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    I don't see how it is costing me anything extra in any event.

    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.


  • #98
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.

    And those same lads while lambasting the bank reps will head on down the hall to the housing committee and wail about evictions and 'vulture funds'


  • #99
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.

    Maybe so, as part of a forbearance arrangement. It would have meant a delay in the onset of proceedings and likely would have been cheaper than rent. The bank might well have refused to continue the forbearance arrangement.


  • #100
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.

    They got the Protective Certificate under false pretences, had agreed to vacate the property etc so I’d take any claims from the couple with a pinch of salt.


  • #101
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.

    A lot of people don't have a mortgage so how are they paying anything?


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