Moved home because of Covid and feeling like i'm being asked for too much

rainbowtrout · 27-08-2020 2:34pm

Adult@home wrote: »

I know, i'm well aware of the lengths she will go to. She is better than she was years ago though. Still doesn't make it okay and she still has a problem but she's not as chaotic as she was for now.

I went to Al Anon but it wasn't really for me to be honest.

If she only went into arrears three weeks ago when you came home it sounds like she was managing fine until then and has chosen to go into arrears to allow you pay the rent so the rest of her money can go on her lifestyle - in this case alcohol and doing up her house.

Find a house share and move out and leave her to it. No good will come of the current situation.

27-08-2020 3:14pm

Sorry, but you're being treated like a doormat. Your mother and her friend are very toxic, and both clearly have problems of their own. What sort of a Mother has a conversation with a friend in which her daughter is referred to as a "f**king bitch"? Disgraceful.

Get out of that situation ASAP. Might be an idea to get yourself some counseling, too (low-cost options are available). Being raised by, and
being around someone so toxic inevitably leaves it's mark. Your self-esteem and assertiveness are lacking, for starters. It's not your fault, but it's your responsibility as an adult to look after yourself. So get out, and don't look back.

27-08-2020 4:10pm

Adult@home wrote: »

I'm not just nodding along to it. I just needed advice to see if I was being unreasonable.

I never planned to stay long term which is why I was even more taken aback when she started suggested getting the house done up etc. I'm 34. If anything i'll be investing in buying my own place somewhere down the line and at least finding a house share for myself.

I am not used to living at home so needed advise on the best course of action in the current environment. I have been looking for house shares over the past couple of weeks but need to get finance in order first.

ok- but you could have the conversation today with your mother about your thoughts on how things have gone and what your decision/s or options are. that doesnt need to wait for anything else.

i think youd be better off and feel much better about things after having that talk- regardless of outcome.

best of luck whatever you do.

LegacyUser · 27-08-2020 4:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

ok- but you could have the conversation today with your mother about your thoughts on how things have gone and what your decision/s or options are. that doesnt need to wait for anything else.

i think youd be better off and feel much better about things after having that talk- regardless of outcome.

best of luck whatever you do.

I didn't think it was worth having until I have stable employment and know where i'm at.

27-08-2020 4:49pm

i get that, but imo the problem here is a lack of respect for you or the idea that you are a cash cow

staying in the long term might be inadvisable either way, but staying in even the short term without actually having the conversation about what can be fairly expected of you seems a bad idea.

just my input, but for your own self esteem it seems that you should calmly confront the few issues- them being unspoken is doing nobody any good.

Tork · 27-08-2020 4:53pm

I think I'd just keep to the original plan, make sure your mother doesn't have access to your bank card and quietly start saving up the money needed to move out. If you're asked for more money, simply say "I can't afford it" or "I don't have it".

tara73 · 27-08-2020 7:53pm

all I can say to this is you need to move out. better today than tomorrow. Start looking for a room in a house share today!

27-08-2020 9:42pm

Adult@home wrote: »

I was happy to pay the house rent every week then split shopping and pay bills as when we need too. I will end up buying a lot of my own food etc as we don't have necessarily the same diet.

Would you mind clarifying something you said here?

Did you make an agreement with your mother that you would cover the house rent (€60) a week, plus split shopping /bills, and the reason your mother has gone into arrears on the house rent is because you were supposed to pay it? (I get the impression you were waiting to get paid? Do you owe her this back "rent"?

I'm just confused as to why the rent wasn't paid yet you gave her your bank card, and have borrowed funds from family.

LegacyUser · 27-08-2020 9:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you mind clarifying something you said here?

Did you make an agreement with your mother that you would cover the house rent (€60) a week, plus split shopping /bills, and the reason your mother has gone into arrears on the house rent is because you were supposed to pay it? (I get the impression you were waiting to get paid? Do you owe her this back "rent"?

I'm just confused as to why the rent wasn't paid yet you gave her your bank card, and have borrowed funds from family.

No that was not the arrangement. I hadn't made an official arrangement with her yet. I borrowed money because my savings ran out and we needed to get some stuff in. I don't owe her rent, not sure why that's in inverted commas?

I only found out in the past few days that she owed three weeks, so I said I would clear it when I get paid.

27-08-2020 10:54pm

Adult@home wrote: »

No that was not the arrangement. I hadn't made an official arrangement with her yet. I borrowed money because my savings ran out and we needed to get some stuff in. I don't owe her rent, not sure why that's in inverted commas?

I only found out in the past few days that she owed three weeks, so I said I would clear it when I get paid.

It's in inverted commas because I couldn't figure out if it was an agreed rent between you, or the official rent.

Quite frankly, I don't understand why you haven't sat down and made an official arrangement with her yet, and stop all this faffing around.

It should have been one of the first discussions that happened when you moved back into your mother's home.

LegacyUser · 28-08-2020 12:31am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's in inverted commas because I couldn't figure out if it was an agreed rent between you, or the official rent.

Quite frankly, I don't understand why you haven't sat down and made an official arrangement with her yet, and stop all this faffing around.

It should have been one of the first discussions that happened when you moved back into your mother's home.

I've been away overseas for three years, through surgery, two redundancies, hadn't been home in a year to see family, stuck overseas for a month trying to get back, spent 40 hours of travelling and had two weeks of quarantine so quite frankly it wasn't the first thing we spoke about when I got in the door.

Don't see how hindsight and should have would have is helpful? I've got really helpful advice from everyone on here but seems you're just looking to find fault or things I should have done.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-08-2020 12:25pm

Adult@home wrote: »

I only found out in the past few days that she owed three weeks, so I said I would clear it when I get paid.

Why? and why are you offering to pay the full rent, not half? This is enabling behaviour. Your mother as householder is responsible for ensuring the rent is paid whether you are there or not. The last thing you should be doing is giving her "free money" to spend on drink.

Xterminator · 28-08-2020 12:38pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? and why are you offering to pay the full rent, not half? This is enabling behaviour. Your mother as householder is responsible for ensuring the rent is paid whether you are there or not. The last thing you should be doing is giving her "free money" to spend on drink.

In what world should the person with a working income should expect the family member on a dole/pension to match their contribution to rent?

OP is being asked to pay too much, but in ireland we generally accept the principle that the person who has the higher income should pay a little more, in all walks of life.

Desnt matter if its paying for college, income tax rates, waivers for bin charges, free bus pass /tv licence etc.

OP has offered to cover the rent completely which was very very decent.

28-08-2020 12:48pm

OP, don't listen to the 'what you should have done' posts. You are where you are.

At this stage, if you're trying to get work and save a bit, just don't agree to anything else and have a think about how you might get a room and stability somewhere else. You might need to stay where you are for a few weeks or months, so there's no point in getting into arguments. Treat it as a temporary measure and once you are contributing your half, or what you can afford, then don't be stressing.

Look after yourself.

28-08-2020 1:12pm

Xterminator wrote: »

In what world should the person with a working income should expect the family member on a dole/pension to match their contribution to rent?

OP is being asked to pay too much, but in ireland we generally accept the principle that the person who has the higher income should pay a little more, in all walks of life.

Desnt matter if its paying for college, income tax rates, waivers for bin charges, free bus pass /tv licence etc.

OP has offered to cover the rent completely which was very very decent.

yeah this makes sense until you remember its differential rent of 60 quid a week and then this looks a bit silly

Hotblack Desiato · 28-08-2020 1:42pm

Xterminator wrote: »

In what world should the person with a working income should expect the family member on a dole/pension to match their contribution to rent?

In a world where the mother was paying (or, supposed to be paying) €60 a week rent before the daughter moved back, and where half of the adjusted rent taking the daughter's income into account would still be less than €60.

OP has offered to cover the rent completely which was very very decent.

It's not very very decent, it's ridiculous, and giving an alcoholic lots of extra cash is likely to be very harmful. Presumably when she was living on her own her 'drink budget' was relatively small, now it isn't...

Neyite · 28-08-2020 2:12pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why? and why are you offering to pay the full rent, not half? This is enabling behaviour. Your mother as householder is responsible for ensuring the rent is paid whether you are there or not. The last thing you should be doing is giving her "free money" to spend on drink.

I read it that the OP had in good faith offered to clear the arrears (and I'd probably do the exact same if it was my mother struggling because I love her) but that the plan hatched to divest her of 200pw came afterwards which was the trigger for OP to stand back and add it all up.

Tork · 28-08-2020 2:27pm

To be fair, these circumstances are a bit unusual. Most people wouldn't expect to come home like this and have their parents try to rip them off like this. Most people don't have a parent who's an alcoholic. I think if I was in the OP's shoes, I'd be trying to keep as much money as possible to myself and save up to get out of there. It doesn't sound like an arrangement that will end well on so many levels. The turbulent relationship they have had with their mother, the mother's alcoholiism, that awful friend stirring the sh*t. And that's before you consider that the OP is used to living independently. Most of us would crack up if we had to move back in without parents and that's without the issues here.

Coybig_ · 28-08-2020 3:22pm

60 a week and in arrears. That in itself is a massive red flag.

How is that even possible? Some crazy overspending going on elsewhere if she cant afford 60 a week on a council house.

3DataModem · 28-08-2020 3:57pm

Adult@home wrote: »

I would have my own apartment at this rate.

You seem to have identified the solution.

This does not pertain to you OP, but I think there is a perception among some people that they have an entitlement to live at home on their own terms (splitting shopping, rent, etc) whereas in reality your parents are entitled to live on their own if they wish.

In my book:
- Moving in with family temporarily because lost job and no money -> OK
- Moving in with family temporarily because relationship split / between jobs / ill -> OK
- Moving in with family indefinitely for any reason -> they have a right to dictate some terms

28-08-2020 9:39pm

Adult@Home wrote: »

I've been away overseas for three years, through surgery, two redundancies, hadn't been home in a year to see family, stuck overseas for a month trying to get back, spent 40 hours of travelling and had two weeks of quarantine so quite frankly it wasn't the first thing we spoke about when I got in the door.

Don't see how hindsight and should have would have is helpful? I've got really helpful advice from everyone on here but seems you're just looking to find fault or things I should have done.

I'm sorry you've been through a rough time, but you've been home for weeks (months?) now. You're making excuses.

You're 34, not a child, and your mother doesn't owe you a roof over your head. Have the conversation, formalise a set contribution per week/month towards rent/shared living costs and then you both know where you stand.

rainbowtrout · 28-08-2020 9:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry you've been through a rough time, but you've been home for weeks (months?) now. You're making excuses.

You're 34, not a child. Have the conversation, and then you both know where you stand. You need to sort out your financial contribution to living in your mother's home.

Unless, as I suspect is the true motive here, what you really expect is for her to allow you to live at home for free.

That's not very fair. The OP stated they were willing to pay rent and completely cover the monthly rent the mother is paying. The mother is looking for a contribution of €800 a month when her rent is €240 a month. She's also looking for various home renovations to be carried out, and just happened to go into arrears on rent when the OP showed up. There's paying a fair rent, and gouging the OP for every penny possible.

Take back your bank card if you haven't already OP, start saving as much as possible for a deposit in a house share and get out as soon as possible.

28-08-2020 10:11pm

Xterminator wrote: »

In what world should the person with a working income should expect the family member on a dole/pension to match their contribution to rent?

If I've read this correctly, the OPs mother only works one day a week, and is in receipt of a benefit payment (see post 17). So is probably not exactly flush with cash and now has an extra adult living at home.

Her mother has "thrown around" and hinted at an amount (which I agree @200 per week is far too high) but she was probably trying to start the conversation the OP clearly wants to avoid having.

This could all be solved, by having the conversation.

rainbowtrout · 28-08-2020 10:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If I've read this correctly, the OPs mother only works one day a week, and is in receipt of either carers benefit (see post 1) or illness benefit (see post 17). So is probably not exactly flush with cash and now with an extra adult living at home.

Her mother has only hinted at an amount (which I agree @200 per week is far too high) but she was probably trying to start the conversation the OP clearly wants to avoid having.

This could all be solved, by having the conversation.

The mother is also an alcoholic which you are conveniently ignoring.

The OP was already covering the entire rent and splitting the bills, she doesn't owe her mother anything else. She's not responsible for funding her lifestyle.

28-08-2020 10:19pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's not very fair.

Agreed, it was under the belt and I removed the comment and apologies to the OP for making it.

28-08-2020 10:30pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The mother is also an alcoholic which you are conveniently ignoring.

The OP was already covering the entire rent and splitting the bills, she doesn't owe her mother anything else. She's not responsible for funding her lifestyle.

The mother also doesn't owe a 34 year old a cheap roof over her head while she saves, either.

As I said in an earlier post, 15% of income is roughly what the Council would look for as rent, so she should be paying that, minimum, plus food and shared bills, on top. Or move out. Plenty of house shares available.

Tork · 28-08-2020 10:32pm

The mother doesn't have the right to empty her child's bank account either.

28-08-2020 10:40pm

She gave her mother her bank card while she was in isolation. I agree she should have it back now.

But you're overlooking the OP's part to play in this completely. She has been home long enough to complete quarantine, find work, and is now back working so why still no conversation?

If I was her mother, the conversation would have been had by now, and either terms agreed or a date to move out set.

Its really not that complicated.

qwerty13 · 30-08-2020 6:05am

I found it very unclear re your posts as to who was in arrears in rent, you or your mother. Have you been similarly unclear with her? I know there’s been posts since, but can you clarify once and for all the exact situation re arrears?

It sounds like you mother is very much taking advantage of you - but it also sounds like a ridiculously loose ‘arrangement’. I really do think you’d be better off moving out.

Hannibal_Smith · 30-08-2020 8:16am

qwerty13 wrote: »

I know there’s been posts since, but can you clarify once and for all the exact situation re arrears?

3 weeks it seems

Adult@home wrote: »

My mam has not paid the rent in 3 weeks which co-incides with me being back I guess.

qwerty13 · 30-08-2020 9:50am

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

3 weeks it seems

I did see that, but there was so much uncertainty about the way it was described a few times that I wasn’t sure if was the OP’s arrears paying their mother, the mother’s arrears to the council, or arrears of the increased rent due to the council as the OP had moved in. And “I guess” didn’t help on clarity.

I think clarity on this is important for people responding - but also as there seems to be a very mixed up situation with the OP’s mother, ie no clarity at all!

LegacyUser · 30-08-2020 4:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

She gave her mother her bank card while she was in isolation. I agree she should have it back now.

But you're overlooking the OP's part to play in this completely. She has been home long enough to complete quarantine, find work, and is now back working so why still no conversation?

If I was her mother, the conversation would have been had by now, and either terms agreed or a date to move out set.

Its really not that complicated.

I don't really know i'm wasting any more energy replying to your posts. I was only back two weeks when I got a job because i'm a bloody hard worker and was job hunting around the clock. So the fact I was flat out job hunting, got a job, have been more than generous you're distored sense of logic brought you to the conclusion that I want a free ride.

LegacyUser · 30-08-2020 4:39pm

qwerty13 wrote: »

I found it very unclear re your posts as to who was in arrears in rent, you or your mother. Have you been similarly unclear with her? I know there’s been posts since, but can you clarify once and for all the exact situation re arrears?

It sounds like you mother is very much taking advantage of you - but it also sounds like a ridiculously loose ‘arrangement’. I really do think you’d be better off moving out.

My mam was in arrears with her rent. I'm going to sit her down tomorrow and have a chat with her. I'd rather pay the rent directly than give her the cash. I know either way she will have extra funds from this situation and that's more money to buy alcohol etc but it's a catch 22. I will offer to pay the rent and split bills and suggest she use the extra cash to buy paint etc.

I can't do anymore than that.

Hannibal_Smith · 30-08-2020 4:47pm

Mod Note

OP I haven't approved your last post. You are responding to a part of a post that was deleted and the poster apologised. I don't think continuing with it is of any help to you.

Thanks

HS

The_Conductor · 30-08-2020 7:22pm

Adult@home - I honestly think that you should move out ASAP (immediately if possible).
The fact that your mother is a functioning alcoholic means any additional funds you introduce into the household- will be drank.
Yes, she is your mother, yes you feel a sense of obligation- and yes, at the time you came back (3 weeks ago) it seems you didn't have any other option.

Get your bankcard back from her immediately. Even staying in a hostel for a few days- while you hunt for a house share- is preferable to knowingly increasing her alcohol budget.

I have no idea how/why she didn't bother paying the rent- and the way you've put it, it would seem that you are going to pay the 180 arrears anyway- but you need to draw a line in the sand and get out of there.

Enabling an alcoholic- by giving her additional funds to spend on alcohol- is not doing her or you any favours.

ted1 · 31-08-2020 12:02pm

Adult@home wrote: »

It's a council house. Rent is 60e per week. I had planned to cover that and suggest she puts 60e aside a week for herself to save rather than getting used to the extra money while i'm here. I'd planned to split bills as necessary and probably do main shopping together and then my extra bits i'd just pay for myself. I thought this was more than fair?

her rent is 60 and she wants 200 from you? mental...

ted1 · 31-08-2020 12:13pm

Xterminator wrote: »

In what world should the person with a working income should expect the family member on a dole/pension to match their contribution to rent?

Because the rent is set at a ridiculous low level, which enables them to afford it.
try renting a house for 60 euro a week....

ted1 · 31-08-2020 12:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry you've been through a rough time, but you've been home for weeks (months?) now. You're making excuses.

You're 34, not a child, and your mother doesn't owe you a roof over your head. Have the conversation, formalise a set contribution per week/month towards rent/shared living costs and then you both know where you stand.

In fairness the mother is is being living the roof over here head by the council, she is not providing it. Also is you go back to when she got the house, it was probably on the basis that she was a mother (possible single mother) with a kid, that kid being the op. So instead of a 1 bed studio, the council provided a bedroom for the mother and also for the op.

LegacyUser · 03-09-2020 6:38pm

So had a chat earlier, agreed i'd pay rent and we'd split bills and this was seen as more than fair. We went down town and been asked to get the odd bit here and there is getting a bit OTT. Don't mind occasionally but it adds up.

Hoping clean slate from next week will even things out.

Tork · 04-09-2020 1:19pm

Glad to see you've reached a compromise. I still think you moving out before too long will be best for both of you in the longer term - still, it's a step in the right direction. Good luck with the jobhunting.

The_Conductor · 04-09-2020 2:38pm

Unfortunately I strongly suspect you're going to be back here in 3-4 weeks time.
I don't think you've solved anything. I honestly don't.

Xterminator · 04-09-2020 3:04pm

Hi Op

I hope you don't mind this observation, but you don't sound like you are very good at standing up for yourself? Is that just with Mam, or in general?

if you find it hard to stand your ground when you think you are right, thenan assertiveness course could give you the skills to not be a pushover.

Its great for work, as well as personal life.

04-09-2020 3:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sorry you've been through a rough time, but you've been home for weeks (months?) now. You're making excuses.

You're 34, not a child, and your mother doesn't owe you a roof over your head. Have the conversation, formalise a set contribution per week/month towards rent/shared living costs and then you both know where you stand.

How straight up ridiculous is it too state that a parent on welfare in a council house doesn't owe a child a roof over their heads?

Yellow pack crisps · 04-09-2020 6:43pm

Can’t imagine charging my kid rent during a pandemic and he being unemployed. I know you got a job but I’d still probably put the money away and give it too him when he is house hunting etc. Some scabby parents around.

LegacyUser · 05-09-2020 6:53pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How straight up ridiculous is it too state that a parent on welfare in a council house doesn't owe a child a roof over their heads?

Madness that someone thinks its so absurd to out a family member up during a global crisis.

LegacyUser · 05-09-2020 6:55pm

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

I hope you don't mind this observation, but you don't sound like you are very good at standing up for yourself? Is that just with Mam, or in general?

if you find it hard to stand your ground when you think you are right, thenan assertiveness course could give you the skills to not be a pushover.

Its great for work, as well as personal life.

I don't have any problems standing up for myself

qwerty13 · 06-09-2020 8:11am

Adult@Home wrote: »

I don't have any problems standing up for myself

Actually I would say that you do.

I’m not criticising you, but this situation with your mother’s expectations - and you not being clear from the beginning on what you were paying (or not) - would not have arisen if you were entirely comfortable standing up for yourself.

I stand by my earlier post that I think it would be best to move out ASAP.

LegacyUser · 07-09-2020 7:30am

qwerty13 wrote: »

Actually I would say that you do.

I’m not criticising you, but this situation with your mother’s expectations - and you not being clear from the beginning on what you were paying (or not) - would not have arisen if you were entirely comfortable standing up for yourself.

I stand by my earlier post that I think it would be best to move out ASAP.

Being assertive and standing up for yourself doesn't = having an argument or confrontation about something that might not even be an issue. The expectations came around based on some flippant comments. I came on here to get objective advice about what is reasonable in terms of giving up rent and contributing as an adult living back home.

I spoke to my mum and we have an agreement. I don't really know where you think I have an issue speaking up for myself comes into this

Tork · 07-09-2020 11:38am

I still think you should move out as soon as you can afford to. It's good to see you resolved the issue with your mum (for now) but there so much potential for this to go sour. You said you've had a turbulent relationship with your mother in the past - it's only a matter of time before that blows up again. She's also a functioning alcoholic and there is a real risk the extra money will be sunk into cans and bottles, not new curtains for the house. She still has that toxic friend in her ear so who knows what sh*t she'll stir up in the background. It's also worth remembering that bitching session you overheard - the friend felt safe enough to call you names in her presence, knowing your mother wouldn't get mad at her. Why?

I understand why you moved home and it's nice to have somewhere to go to when things go wrong. I think for everyone's sake, the sooner you''re moved out again, the better.

Xterminator · 07-09-2020 3:56pm

Adult@Home wrote: »

I don't have any problems standing up for myself

Glad to hear it. If you are happy, thats all that matters.

as for the people still telling you to move out, i would take that with a pinch of salt. There is no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you and mum can happily co-exist, then your bills are lower than it would be to rent/live alone, and we know hers are lower too. As long as it is a win win situation, and you get along stay put.

But prudence suggests you should set aside a sum of money that would cover 1st months deposit and rent, just in case, and not touch it.

Moved home because of Covid and feeling like i'm being asked for too much

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