Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

iusedtoknow · 24-07-2015 3:59pm

keithclancy wrote: »

I've also never seen any literature in Spain or the U.S. (in hotels for example) that homosexuality is illegal and punishable by law.

True...but try being openly gay is the very religious midwest or deep south - you will be barred from bars, restaurants etc. Can't be a very fun way to live life

keithclancy wrote: »

Traveling there with your partner is also a problem unless you are married

My wife is very proud spanish woman, and never changed her two surnames to married name (i never wanted her to anyway). Every time she travels to the US by herself, she has to carry her marriage certificate to get through the border to prove that she has the right to come in.

Though when we were both going through the UAE on the way to India, we stayed in Dubai, checked into hotels with different names, no marriage cert with us and had no problems. However...when we were traveling through the mid west of the US, we stopped a motel - the person looked at our drivers licenses and said that it was a "christian establishment" and we'd need two rooms.

keithclancy · 24-07-2015 4:04pm

FURET wrote: »

Yeah, sorry, I find these reputedly moral arguments naive in the extreme. The world has seven billion people and most of them are dirt poor, and a great many of them are from the areas around the Gulf. I don't employ maids or nannies or trod on anyone's back, certainly no more than you do.

Besides, I don't see how such a stance relates to "going back home". Presumably if someone felt strongly enough about it, they wouldn't move to the Gulf to begin with.

That's generally the opinion in Dubai, "It's better for them, they came here it was their own choice"

They live in a place in India and are told they can work in Dubai for 40-50k rupees per month, they go with the aim of being there for 2 years. When they arrive the contract they signed is not valid and now they will only earn around 10-20k rupees per month.

They now also owe 2 lakhs in a "visa fee" so there goes their passport.

These people would prefer to be 'dirt poor' as you put it and with their families than trapped working for a debt they can never pay of in 50 degree heat living in a box outside Dubai away from the glitzy buildings.

All while during the last financial hiccup people were dumping exotic sports cars on the street to get out of the country.

No, I don't think it's the same thing.

'Dirt poor' and a working slave are two completely different things.

FURET · 24-07-2015 4:11pm

You wouldn't want to live in a place with such an uneven population. Well welcome to Earth. Europe and north America are completely atypical in global terms. They are bubbles. You might feel more shielded from the world's inequality and unfairness in Europe (while working for the military industrial complex that is NATO!), but don't kid yourself.

And you've provided not a single recent credible source detailing how numerous such incidents are.

What percentage of the UAE population are affected? What percentage of laborers are affected? Is it legal in the UAE to treat workers as you describe? What steps has the UAE government taken in recent times to address it? Why hasn't India done more, seen as how India is the real source of most of the slavery and caste-based racism in the world? And what on earth does any of this have to do with this thread?

You see, almost everything you think you know about the UAE is wrong as evidenced by your claim about traveling with women you're not married to. Straight from the discredited pages of Johann Hari no doubt.

keithclancy · 24-07-2015 4:14pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

There are many factual inaccuracies in the above statement. Have you ever actually been to the UAE? There are most certainly issues there is no denying it, however it is the exception, rather than the rule.

Of course.

Wasn't it illegal in Ireland up until relatively recently?

I don't remember ever seeing material in public stating it was illegal.

The death penalty was also in place in Ireland up until 1990 but that doesn't mean it was in use.

Absolute nonsense. Yes, there are issues with living together in some situations, but traveling to the country as a couple is not an issue.

Travelling together not likely, Living together unmarried, of course that's a problem.

keithclancy · 24-07-2015 4:27pm

FURET wrote: »

You've provided not a single recent credible source detailing how numerous such incidents are.

What percentage of the UAE population are affected? What percentage of laborers are affected? Is it legal in the UAE to treat workers as you describe? What steps has the UAE government taken in recent times to address it? Why hasn't India done more, seen as how India is the real source of most of the slavery and caste-based racism in the world? And what on earth does any of this have to do with this thread?

You see, almost everything you think you know about the UAE is wrong as evidenced by your claim about traveling with women you're not married to. Straight from the discredited pages of Johann Hari no doubt.

I only know what I've seen directly myself and what the Indians from our offshore partners tell us.

Human Rights Watch also published an article on the subject.

http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates

There are also multiple other sources that show this scenario.

I only answered you because you seemed to think money was my motivation, as I said it's Social Welfare, I wouldn't want to live in a place where it was that uneven across the population.

silja · 24-07-2015 4:40pm

Mod Note:
Ladies and gents, this is goig way off topic, and is neither the thread nor the forum for this. Please let's get back to the question in the OP.

wuffly · 26-07-2015 6:26am

Well that escalated quickly! Firstly its not like I've booked my flight and sold my stuff, just saying its adding to pro's for leaving list!! The price of petrol going up has a date set so its quiet likely to happen (at some stage even if this is just a warning/testing the water scenario), me and my little car won't be affected very much but I wonder how long before cheap taxi's and cheap deliveries are effected. I think its a bit naive to think there wont be any knock on affect on the rest of the economy. As for VAT and corporation tax my OH is setting up his own business so if it goes ahead it will very much affect the feasibility of us staying here. Combined with the fact that we are hoping to start a family in the coming years and cost of decent education is out of control. The benefits of staying here are slowly being eroded for us anyway!

FURET · 26-07-2015 8:43am

wuffly wrote: »

Well that escalated quickly! Firstly its not like I've booked my flight and sold my stuff, just saying its adding to pro's for leaving list!! The price of petrol going up has a date set so its quiet likely to happen (at some stage even if this is just a warning/testing the water scenario), me and my little car won't be affected very much but I wonder how long before cheap taxi's and cheap deliveries are effected. I think its a bit naive to think there wont be any knock on affect on the rest of the economy. As for VAT and corporation tax my OH is setting up his own business so if it goes ahead it will very much affect the feasibility of us staying here. Combined with the fact that we are hoping to start a family in the coming years and cost of decent education is out of control. The benefits of staying here are slowly being eroded for us anyway!

For couples with - or intending to start - a young family, you need a very good package to make Dubai worthwhile. As I say, I'm not here for the culture. Without a good basic, housing allowance, and family package (i.e. insurance for family members, annual tickets, and education allowance for kids), raising a family here to western standards is not viable.

However, if you get a good basic salary, a good housing allowance, tickets and family insurance thrown in, along with an education allowance for kids (and these are all pretty common allowances among the better employers), and a car allowance (which covers petrol) the economics stack up very nicely in Dubai's favor.

I think one of the keys is to live modestly in Dubai. My wife and I have two bog standard cars. Hers is an 8-year-old Tida; mine is a 4-year old Hyundai. We live in a 2-bedroom apartment in a low-cost area - we don't have a pool or gym in the building. We do all our own cleaning. We do all our groceries in Carrefour. When my wife has our baby, she'll take a couple of years off work because we don't want to hire a nanny. We'll take a hit financially, but we'll still be able to save 90k euro per year. This level of saving would be totally unthinkable in Ireland or almost any western country for that matter. My wife has a lot of long-term friends in the city who also have young children, so there'll be a nice friendly environment.

Without this circle of friends, raising a child would also be difficult here.

We won't be choosing an outlandishly expensive school for primary education either. Many of my co-workers were raised in Dubai and attended "Indian" schools or "Filipino" schools and received an excellent education. Going to a Gems or "American" school is like buying a Porsche - totally unnecessary (though my wife is a Filipina so this makes it culturally easier).

RE the corporate tax, I have no idea what the rate will be, or even if it will be introduced any time soon. But if it is introduced before other GCC countries start a similar scheme, you'd have to assume the UAE will lose a lot of capital. For that reason, I'd be doubtful. I'd also be doubtful it will be introduced at a rate of more than 15% - probably less than the 12.5% in Ireland, plus employers in the UAE won't have to pay social insurance unless hiring a GCC national. All that said, I know very little about starting businesses in the UAE. I'm sure you've done the sums and if they're pointing towards Ireland, so be it. But my point is that for most childless western professionals who are just employees rather than entrepreneurs, even with corporate tax and slightly higher petrol costs (which will never even approach the lofty heights endured by Irish motorists), staying in the UAE for 5-10 years is going to put them in a superb position financially.*

*I do of course recognize that there are non-financial factors, but in this particular post I'm focusing on finance.

average hero · 26-07-2015 11:26am

Great thread - enjoyed reading it!

I am in regional England at the moment. Half searching for a job back home because I really don't see myself staying here to be honest! There are many ways in which it is better than Ireland (conversion rate, transport is better, NHS etc) but I long to be home with my family and friends.

I just hope that I can source a good job!

wuffly · 27-07-2015 8:52am

Different strokes for different folks! We don't live an extravagant life here by any means but we also don't do executive camping. Well we did for the first two years, but i needed to make it home otherwise I would never have settled. Work is too intense to come home to blank walls and ikea furniture, it was soul destroying (now are all up-cycled dubizzle!) So we reevaluated, life is what happens when you are busy making plans! We travel as much as we can, which ain't cheap as starting flights here automatically means paying more, for home we keep a flight in hand and for holidays we just bite the bullet. My OH parents flew to oz with a stop over here, cheaper than a return flight home for us, its ridiculous. We made good use of two healthy expat packages and now we are looking long term at our business, right now here is still a good place to be but for us its only a matter of a few years before it swings the other way. I think you would be hard pressed to find a package with kids education included these days, I work in oil and gas even our GM doesn't have type of package. There will be no nanny for our kids and they won't be getting educated here. I've know two families move home in last year and the amount they have seen their kids thrive is almost frightening, seeing grandparents and cousins the kids have come on immeasurably one was with a nanny full time and the other in nursery here so very different scenarios, even seeing photos of the kids they look like different people. Summers at home and winters here would be great! lol!

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 11:53am

I constantly think of packin it in. im sittin here on my break now thinkin about it. the problem is im not gettin anywhere, if anything ive degressed since leaving ireland, and in one of the most succesful countries in the world where everybody seems to be doing great for themselves regardless of where they come from, its awful depressing. cant seem to pick the language at all which (i tell myself) is where most of my problems arise. But if i go back now it would be just as bad to have wasted the time and come back with nothing. catch fookin 22.

Wompa1 · 30-07-2015 3:29pm

Old Perry wrote: »

I constantly think of packin it in. im sittin here on my break now thinkin about it. the problem is im not gettin anywhere, if anything ive degressed since leaving ireland, and in one of the most succesful countries in the world where everybody seems to be doing great for themselves regardless of where they come from, its awful depressing. cant seem to pick the language at all which (i tell myself) is where most of my problems arise. But if i go back now it would be just as bad to have wasted the time and come back with nothing. catch fookin 22.

Are you in America? What do you work at?

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 5:18pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

Are you in America? What do you work at?

Germany. its called zeitarbeit. when i got here it was easiest and quickest way to get full time work, not a word of germen needed. ive since come to realise its akin to being a serf. Minimum wage, go where youre told when told, get treated like a fool because of lack of language and the fact you are a zeitarbeiter .many people look down upon people who do this work. im complaining alot, but really its a good thing, id be fooked without it as nowhere else no matter how hard i tried would take me. To give it some credit it does make it hard to be unemployed in this country. i just thought id be progressing more at this stage, im not that young anymore and my degree wont be so useful with every passing year also.

Wompa1 · 30-07-2015 5:21pm

Old Perry wrote: »

Germany. its called zeitarbeit. when i got here it was easiest and quickest way to get full time work, not a word of germen needed. ive since come to realise its akin to being a serf. Minimum wage, go where youre told when told, get treated like a fool because of lack of language and the fact you are a zeitarbeiter .many people look down upon people who do this work. im complaining alot, but really its a good thing, id be fooked without it as nowhere else no matter how hard i tried would take me. To give it some credit it does make it hard to be unemployed in this country. i just thought id be progressing more at this stage, im not that young anymore and my degree wont be so useful with every passing year also.

Ohhh ok. I did some work in Essen back about 4 years ago. I think the guy I worked with was explaining that to me at the time.

I wondered if you were in America because I've noticed that over here. People in low paying jobs in Ireland can come here, do the same job and get paid a small fortune. Where as people in the US that make very little in a job over here, would be making much more for certain jobs in Ireland.

There's absolutely no shame in going back to Ireland. I really miss it AND I don't have the same kind of struggles as you do...I'd bet I'd be running back right now if I did!

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 5:30pm

Ah really im just being a negative so and so. could be worse off. just need to keep on keepin on. Ive been half thinkin that if i had a decent job lined up id be gone.

what sort of jobs are ya refering to between ire and usa, thats interesting id never heard of that before beyond say the likes of highschool/secondary level teaching being a bit rough in america.

Wompa1 · 30-07-2015 6:12pm

Old Perry wrote: »

Ah really im just being a negative so and so. could be worse off. just need to keep on keepin on. Ive been half thinkin that if i had a decent job lined up id be gone.

what sort of jobs are ya refering to between ire and usa, thats interesting id never heard of that before beyond say the likes of highschool/secondary level teaching being a bit rough in america.

Teachers get paid very little here. In Ireland they aren't paid too well but over here it's diabolical. There's a reason Walter White was working in a car wash

I worked an IT job in Ireland making a good salary by Irish standards. I moved to the US and right off the bat was paid more than double of what I got in Ireland.

My fiancé is working as a counselor, she's also a qualified therapist. Over here she gets paid very little when working for either the state or for a private company. If she went out on her own, she could make a good salary but that's problematic due to the litigious nature over here...so essentially, she's getting paid very little and is likely to continue to get paid very little. In Ireland, she could operate privately and I don't think people would try to sue her or get her stricken off for missing some non-existent warning sign.

Over here somebody that works for an insurance company doing claims or in certain financial positions (chasing down late payments) barely get paid more than minimum wage. Also, minimum wage is pretty awful in most states.

People working in some bars. As well as people working as waiters and waitresses get paid less than minimum wage....in fact usually less than half of minimum wage. They rely on tips...it works fine in principal but if you get a job in a new restaurant and it doesn't do well....you're not getting paid. If you work in a busy place but get put on a bad shift, it could be really slow and you're not getting paid. If you're working in a restaurant and the state decides to extend their light rail outside it...for that year+ business drops and you're not getting paid.

It's pretty unfair. Also as a fella that moved over here by himself. I would eat out a lot alone...when you're one customer, that's a small tip. So rightly, when a table of 10 comes in, you don't exist any more

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 6:42pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

America is a heck of a country (almost countries i suppose with how different it can be from state to state) once you can get a leg up. I suppose just like most places it has its good points and its things that seem to be done arseways.

thats a good point about the health profession. as far as im aware counselling is unregulated in ireland which would certainly make it easier to practice. On the point of being sued. why do ya think that happens or may such a problem for those practitioners? its not really a thing in ireland but with the way the claims culture is arising and peoples inability to take responsibility i can see it becoming quite common.

Wompa1 · 30-07-2015 6:50pm

Old Perry wrote: »

America is a heck of a country (almost countries i suppose with how different it can be from state to state) once you can get a leg up. I suppose just like most places it has its good points and its things that seem to be done arseways.

thats a good point about the health profession. as far as im aware counselling is unregulated in ireland which would certainly make it easier to practice. On the point of being sued. why do ya think that happens or may such a problem for those practitioners? its not really a thing in ireland but with the way the claims culture is arising and peoples inability to take responsibility i can see it becoming quite common.

I think it's a very litigious place because there's no limit to what you can win in a civil case over here. There's people getting hurt and becoming a millionaire off the back of a legal case. Personally, I believe when it comes to business like that and the fact when you operate as a licensed professional and get sued here, you can be stricken off very easily and not allowed to practice any more. If you work for a company, they have klout and can put in safe guards to settle any such case and ensure you're not stricken off.

In a way, I think it's a way of larger healthcare companies to control that sector\Industry. They make it difficult for people to go freelance.

BailMeOut · 30-07-2015 7:15pm

If you are thinking about coming home I suspect there is probably never a good time to do it. You will not have enough money, your job might be going well, you might have some debts to pay off, your kids might be doing well at school, etc.. this list will go on and on.

If however you really do want to move back then set yourself date in the future and work towards that. You will be quite surprised how you will make the whole thing work out but you need to make that decision and just go for it with a date to work towards.

We set our date as the end of the school year for our eldest child finishing kindergarten in the US. We saw this as the first milestone in their education and felt that the next opportunity would be at the end of elementary (primary) or another five years. This gave us just over 18 months from the decision to the actual move which was a really hectic and exciting time figuring it all out as there was so much to do, e.g. quit jobs, sell house and cars, numerous goodbye parties, selling things we did not want to bring back, packing up and shipping all our stuff home, find somewhere to live in Ireland, finding work, etc...

So my advise would be

1. Make the decision (hardest part)
2. Pick a move date
3. Stick to that move date

The rest will be fine, just remember you are coming home so it's not like a foreign land you are coming back to!

murphaph · 30-07-2015 8:15pm

BailMeOut wrote: »

just remember you are coming home so it's not like a foreign land you are coming back to!

The longer you are away the more foreign it becomes IMO. Some stuff annoys me about Germany, but more stuff annoys me about Ireland, or i suppose I would never have left the place.

We're building a house at the moment. I'm quite sure the planners in Ireland wouldn't be as fussy as the ones here. It's taking bloody ages to progress the application (stuff like getting the new hydrant nearest our site pressure tested to ensure we have sufficient water in case of fire!!!) BUT I am also quite sure that our house will be better built and more future proof than if we built in Ireland.

CelticRambler · 30-07-2015 10:18pm

murphaph wrote: »

The longer you are away the more foreign it becomes IMO. Some stuff annoys me about Germany, but more stuff annoys me about Ireland, or i suppose I would never have left the place.

Same here. I can tune in to the Irish wavelength pretty quickly when I'm back there, but it's never long before I start thinking WTF several times a day. Little stuff, but lots of it.

Old Perry wrote: »

Germany. its called zeitarbeit. when i got here it was easiest and quickest way to get full time work, not a word of germen needed. ive since come to realise its akin to being a serf. Minimum wage, go where youre told when told, get treated like a fool because of lack of language and the fact you are a zeitarbeiter .many people look down upon people who do this work. im complaining alot, but really its a good thing, id be fooked without it as nowhere else no matter how hard i tried would take me. To give it some credit it does make it hard to be unemployed in this country. i just thought id be progressing more at this stage, im not that young anymore and my degree wont be so useful with every passing year also.

You're probably thinking worse of yourself than you mean to. My sister's working in Frankfurt, good job, well paid, but I doubt she's speaking much more German than you do and she does nothing but work Mon to Fri, family shop on Saturday and crash on Sunday.

One of the things that really helped me settle in France was rediscovering one of my passions from my teenage/university days (trad music and dance). After graduation, I spent ten years in England and didn't even notice I'd let it go. It wasn't until after I moved to France when Life gave me an awful wallop and someone hassled me into "a day out" that I realised how much I missed it.

Apart from it being a stress-release, and being a way to learn and use the language in a real-world setting, it's also a great way to get over any prejudices related to the job because people are more focused on the activity. Like you, I'm currently working in different parts of the country, starting with new people, new software, new shops (or not) every couple of months. But as soon as I find a music/dance event in the new area, I'm with "my own" kind again.

Do you have any non-geographic interests that you could tap into like that?

iusedtoknow · 30-07-2015 10:51pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

I think it's a very litigious place because there's no limit to what you can win in a civil case over here. There's people getting hurt and becoming a millionaire off the back of a legal case. Personally, I believe when it comes to business like that and the fact when you operate as a licensed professional and get sued here, you can be stricken off very easily and not allowed to practice any more. I

My wife is a cardio-thoracic doctor - her insurance is 34000 a year. Already been sued once already...the guy lost as he was informed that a doctor trying to resusitate you will probably break a rib or two - she was in bits, her seniors said to get used to it - her head of department has been sued 8 times.

The longer you are away the more foreign it becomes IMO. Some stuff annoys me about Germany, but more stuff annoys me about Ireland, or i suppose I would never have left the place.

I'm the same...everything is super for the first few days when I'm back...then more and more WTF moments happen and by the end of my visit I'm itching to leave.

Suaimhneach · 31-07-2015 3:47am

Wompa1 wrote: »

There's absolutely no shame in going back to Ireland.

Just wanted to echo this. Some people do fine abroad, some people dont. It's not for everyone. No shame in it.

BailMeOut wrote: »

If you are thinking about coming home I suspect there is probably never a good time to do it. You will not have enough money, your job might be going well, you might have some debts to pay off, your kids might be doing well at school, etc.. this list will go on and on.

If however you really do want to move back then set yourself date in the future and work towards that. You will be quite surprised how you will make the whole thing work out but you need to make that decision and just go for it with a date to work towards.

We set our date as the end of the school year for our eldest child finishing kindergarten in the US. We saw this as the first milestone in their education and felt that the next opportunity would be at the end of elementary (primary) or another five years. This gave us just over 18 months from the decision to the actual move which was a really hectic and exciting time figuring it all out as there was so much to do, e.g. quit jobs, sell house and cars, numerous goodbye parties, selling things we did not want to bring back, packing up and shipping all our stuff home, find somewhere to live in Ireland, finding work, etc...

So my advise would be

1. Make the decision (hardest part)
2. Pick a move date
3. Stick to that move date

The rest will be fine, just remember you are coming home so it's not like a foreign land you are coming back to!

A ha! Someone who has left america for Ireland! Any tips / thoughts / advice / do & donts? Dreading figuring out taxes!

We basically followed your advice. Decision has taken months (hence this thread and you're right, definitely the hardest part), have an approximate date, and we're sticking to it (despite career temptations to stay!).

What made you decide to leave, and have you been home long?

---

Also general thread question, given that it's gone to several topics - do people think they'd use a forum for this kind of discussion?

SoFluffy · 31-07-2015 6:04am

My husband and I are returning home next month. We lived in the Netherlands for 2 years and then Perth for 3. I have a job to go back to in Dublin, but my husband doesn't have anything yet. We always knew we wanted to reurn to Ireland, just didn't really know when, but my job in Ireland pretty much made the decision for us! We are excited, looking forward to spending time with family and friends, but I know we will miss some things about Oz, mostly the weather and outdoor lifestyle. We are hoping it will work out for us, but if it doesn't at least we know we gave it a try!!! Nice to read through this thread, anytime this topic of conversation comes up on irish in Perth facebook pages, it's all negative ' why would you want to go back?', 'you'll be back in 6 months time'.....usual stuff.....
I'm in the middle of packing boxes and selling stuff on gumtree, took a break and read this, it nearly made me cry.....I'm so nervous, sometimes I think what the hell are we doing?!? Eekk.....😫😫

The Corinthian · 31-07-2015 6:12am

Old Perry wrote: »

Germany. its called zeitarbeit. when i got here it was easiest and quickest way to get full time work, not a word of germen needed. ive since come to realise its akin to being a serf. Minimum wage, go where youre told when told, get treated like a fool because of lack of language and the fact you are a zeitarbeiter .many people look down upon people who do this work. im complaining alot, but really its a good thing, id be fooked without it as nowhere else no matter how hard i tried would take me. To give it some credit it does make it hard to be unemployed in this country. i just thought id be progressing more at this stage, im not that young anymore and my degree wont be so useful with every passing year also.

You answered your own question on why you're not progressing a while back; language.

The only way to avoid having to speak the language is to work in an English-speaking environment. And generally for that you need to be in a multinational and/or line of work where this is common, such as finance or IT. And for that you generally need qualifications and specializations.

Even then I'd still advise you learn the language unless you intend to stay for just a few years at most. Not being able to speak the language limits the number of places you can apply to, no matter how experienced or qualified you are. You'll always be at a disadvantage.

And before you say it's too hard to learn high German; well it is hard, but try having to learn Swiss German. Reality is that most Anglophones find excuses not to learn - it is, after all, a lot of effort on top of full working day - and make little effort to do so. And hang out only with other Anglophones. So they end up never picking it up.

TBH, unless you intend to really put in that effort and immerse yourself in the language (hang out with the locals, not other English speakers), you are better off returning to Ireland. Especially if you lack the qualifications for the higher end jobs that will be in English-speaking environments.

murphaph wrote: »

The longer you are away the more foreign it becomes IMO. Some stuff annoys me about Germany, but more stuff annoys me about Ireland, or i suppose I would never have left the place.

That people are permanently late in Ireland drives me insane.

I cannot use Irish public transport any more either, without wanting to commit GBH by the end of the trip.

There's no clocks anywhere. Even when there are, they're broken.

And ironically, Ireland has become a bit of a nanny state that seeks to control the citizen. You can't live with someone without becoming 'married' automatically after a while. There's dozens of laws that make it illegal to do anything anymore. And all these laws seem to just get rubber-stamped by committees with absolutely no democratic oversight whatsoever and half the time people don't even know about them. Who the fsck would want to live somewhere like that?

Old Perry · 31-07-2015 6:53am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ah now id be fairly naive if i thought i could get by without out the language. i dont live in one of the major cities so the only 'anglophone' or fluent english speaker i assosciate with is a friend from ireland, who is german. I have also got a deustch course under my belt which involved taking a lot of time off work. yes i answered my own question but it doesnt take a away from the difficulty or effort thats being put in. im fully aware of whats happening and whats needed.

DaveWalsh2020 · 31-07-2015 7:09am

When you do come home you just sit at home watching telly and never call over...

Wompa1 · 31-07-2015 8:27am

SoFluffy wrote: »

My husband and I are returning home next month. We lived in the Netherlands for 2 years and then Perth for 3. I have a job to go back to in Dublin, but my husband doesn't have anything yet. We always knew we wanted to reurn to Ireland, just didn't really know when, but my job in Ireland pretty much made the decision for us! We are excited, looking forward to spending time with family and friends, but I know we will miss some things about Oz, mostly the weather and outdoor lifestyle. We are hoping it will work out for us, but if it doesn't at least we know we gave it a try!!! Nice to read through this thread, anytime this topic of conversation comes up on irish in Perth facebook pages, it's all negative ' why would you want to go back?', 'you'll be back in 6 months time'.....usual stuff.....
I'm in the middle of packing boxes and selling stuff on gumtree, took a break and read this, it nearly made me cry.....I'm so nervous, sometimes I think what the hell are we doing?!? Eekk.....😫😫

The grass is always greener but to be honest, I find a lot of people who emigrate to Australia, Canada, US etc. say these things about Ireland to convince themselves and others about how great their life is over there. Australia has all kinds of problems. It's far from ideal. I always liken it to an experience I had on a sun holiday to Greece one year. It was budget travel so everybody in the hotel\villa was part of the same flight\travel group. For the entire week all most people did was lounge by the pool.

The little strip, literally just along one road had a few pubs. You'd see people out and about but it was all pretty above board. People eating, having a few drinks. Nothing crazy.

The last night of the trip. A group went to the pool side bar and took turns getting up on the bar and taking pictures. I'm guessing it's this need to show others what an amazing time they had...it's all surface level BS. Don't worry about the naysayers. Ireland is a great place to live. You might start getting doubts when it's freezing cold or when you have to go to a hospital or whatever but just remember the bad things about Australia and Holland...and remember, everywhere has problems..you returned to Ireland for a reason.

Wompa1 · 31-07-2015 8:33am

BailMeOut wrote: »

If you are thinking about coming home I suspect there is probably never a good time to do it. You will not have enough money, your job might be going well, you might have some debts to pay off, your kids might be doing well at school, etc.. this list will go on and on.

If however you really do want to move back then set yourself date in the future and work towards that. You will be quite surprised how you will make the whole thing work out but you need to make that decision and just go for it with a date to work towards.

We set our date as the end of the school year for our eldest child finishing kindergarten in the US. We saw this as the first milestone in their education and felt that the next opportunity would be at the end of elementary (primary) or another five years. This gave us just over 18 months from the decision to the actual move which was a really hectic and exciting time figuring it all out as there was so much to do, e.g. quit jobs, sell house and cars, numerous goodbye parties, selling things we did not want to bring back, packing up and shipping all our stuff home, find somewhere to live in Ireland, finding work, etc...

So my advise would be

1. Make the decision (hardest part)
2. Pick a move date
3. Stick to that move date

The rest will be fine, just remember you are coming home so it's not like a foreign land you are coming back to!

Out of interest. Did you plan that you'd have the kids you want to have before leaving the US? So you had two in quick succession so you could move back to Ireland with them having their US citizenship?

Any hassle getting the kids over to Ireland? What did you have to do to bring them there? I'm thinking of a similar strategy. I'd like to have my kids in the US and then move to Ireland with a bit of a nest egg built. My wife is American\Thai. My kids some day will be American. I'm hoping since they are my family, it'll be easy enough to get them visa and then eventually naturalized as citizens.

The Corinthian · 31-07-2015 8:49am

Wompa1 wrote: »

Did you plan that you'd have the kids you want to have before leaving the US? So you had two in quick succession so you could move back to Ireland with them having their US citizenship?

Not sure that's so attractive as it used to be. Bequeathing a life of double taxation to your children is not exactly a huge advantage, just on the chance that they'll want to live in the US and not one of the other 195 countries in the World.

Wompa1 · 31-07-2015 10:00am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not sure that's so attractive as it used to be. Bequeathing a life of double taxation to your children is not exactly a huge advantage, just on the chance that they'll want to live in the US and not one of the other 195 countries in the World.

There is no double taxation unless they want to live somewhere like Abu Dhabi due to no tax treaty in place with them but technically, I believe that's the case for Ireland too.

You might be confused between paying tax and filing a tax return. Ireland and the US have a tax treaty. I can work and live in one and only pay tax to one. But I need to file a tax return in the US to state that I'm not earning there.

The US is a f**ked up harsh environment to live in BUT it's a beacon for innovation still and you can a much larger slice of the pie than in the likes of Ireland. I just wouldn't want to live here full time for the rest of my life. I'd like for my kids to be able to come here if they want to.

Also, my fiance family is here. It would be good to have the option to bring them back for a few months at a time when older

The Corinthian · 31-07-2015 10:14am

Wompa1 wrote: »

You might be confused between paying tax and filing a tax return. Ireland and the US have a tax treaty. I can work and live in one and only pay tax to one. But I need to file a tax return in the US to state that I'm not earning there.

Yes, that was it. Problem is that, other than countries that don't have tax treaties with the US, it's been tighened up in recent years to the point that everyone has to go through a lot of red tape to fulfill their obligations with the American IRS, even if unemployed. And in 20 years time, when it begins to become an issue for one's kids, who knows...

The US is a f**ked up harsh environment to live in BUT it's a beacon for innovation still and you can a much larger slice of the pie than in the likes of Ireland.

At present, yes, but as I said in 20 years time, when it begins to become an issue for one's kids, who knows...

BailMeOut · 31-07-2015 10:30am

Suaimhneach A ha! Someone who has left america for Ireland! Any tips / thoughts / advice / do & donts? Dreading figuring out taxes!

We basically followed your advice. Decision has taken months (hence this thread and you're right, definitely the hardest part), have an approximate date, and we're sticking to it (despite career temptations to stay!).

What made you decide to leave, and have you been home long?

We used to ask ourselves are we going to live in USA forever and the answer was always no. After that it is a question of where we will live and when we will move. After that it's simply decided by our kids and their school milestones.

Our kids are obviously USA citizens so we too naturalized before coming back which has it's pros and cons. The big con is that you end up having to do USA taxes and submissions to US treasury for the rest of your life which is a huge pain. The big pro is that we can work as a normal '1099' employee for USA companies while living in Ireland. While this was not the original plan once we decided to move a few of my US contacts asked me to do contract work for them which I have been doing for last 5 years.

We moved back in 2010 and we lived away for nearly 20 years.

Wompa1 Out of interest. Did you plan that you'd have the kids you want to have before leaving the US? So you had two in quick succession so you could move back to Ireland with them having their US citizenship?

Any hassle getting the kids over to Ireland? What did you have to do to bring them there? I'm thinking of a similar strategy. I'd like to have my kids in the US and then move to Ireland with a bit of a nest egg built. My wife is American\Thai. My kids some day will be American. I'm hoping since they are my family, it'll be easy enough to get them visa and then eventually naturalized as citizens.

We did not think about this at all when we had our kids. We were just living our happy lives in USA, got married, had kids and once the kids were starting school in USA you start to think longer term and where we would settle down properly.

No hassle with kids coming back and they settled in just fine. Our oldest went into 1st class and within days they were all assimilated as if they always lived here. If you are Irish then I cannot see why your kids and wife would not have any issues living here. When you move back you have to do the 'habitual residency' application to demonstrate you plan to live and work here and once that is done your kids get PPS numbers so can attend school like anyone else.

If you do move back get your private Irish health insurance from day one of arriving as much of your coverage will not start for period of time after that. I forget how long but you will want to get that clock ticking as quickly as possible.

The worst part of the move for my wife was getting an Irish driving license. I already had one but the new rules meant she had to do driving lessons and do the test again. There is no way around this as you cannot drive with you USA license after 12 months.

Good luck and PM me if you need any help.

Old Perry · 31-07-2015 1:15pm

Just as ye mentioned insurance in ireland, if one were to have left ireland before all these new rules came in and move back after turning 35, would their insurance suffer the fines or however they call it, premium being loaded?

BailMeOut · 31-07-2015 2:03pm

Old Perry wrote: »

Just as ye mentioned insurance in ireland, if one were to have left ireland before all these new rules came in and move back after turning 35, would their insurance suffer the fines or however they call it, premium being loaded?

no. Returning emigrants are excluded from these new rules.

Riverireland · 31-07-2015 2:06pm

To anyone thinking of coming home think twice. News of Ireland recovery are being greatly exaggerated.

BailMeOut · 31-07-2015 2:16pm

Riverireland wrote: »

To anyone thinking of coming home think twice. News of Ireland recovery are being greatly exaggerated.

how is that helpful.

To anyone thinking of coming home one big downside is that this country has plenty of people like RiverIreland who just love putting this country down. Ireland is and remains a great place to live and bring up a family. Source - me and my family.

The Corinthian · 31-07-2015 2:20pm

BailMeOut wrote: »

To anyone thinking of coming home one big downside is that this country has plenty of people like RiverIreland who just love putting this country down. Ireland is and remains a great place to live and bring up a family. Source - me and my family.

I don't think he suggested it is not a great place to live and bring up a family, only that news of an economic recovery has been greatly exaggerated.

Or maybe Ireland's still a great place to live and bring up a family on social welfare if the economy is not a concern?

iusedtoknow · 31-07-2015 2:29pm

Riverireland wrote: »

To anyone thinking of coming home think twice. News of Ireland recovery are being greatly exaggerated.

well a lot of my friends who have already gone "home" would beg to differ. They work in IT , an industry which weathered the storms pretty well and is now flourishing again - if a little more constrained than it was in 2006.

For builders etc, there isn't a boom - but people will soon forget the idiocy that led to the crash and there will be estates of new builds before you know it, and the brickies can come back and rake it all in again.

magicmushroom · 31-07-2015 2:29pm

I'm English, I've been living in Ireland now for 7 years.

I'm not too far from home so it's never been an issue for me to be away.
However the past year hasn't been so great and I've had a few things happen that have made me want to be with my family.

So I'm moving back at the beginning of October - hopefully I will be able to find work pretty quickly, but to be honest it's the least of my worries. Once I'm back with my family, the rest can fall into place in time.

Being away from them is poo!

Old Perry · 31-07-2015 2:36pm

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm English, I've been living in Ireland now for 7 years.

I'm not too far from home so it's never been an issue for me to be away.
However the past year hasn't been so great and I've had a few things happen that have made me want to be with my family.

So I'm moving back at the beginning of October - hopefully I will be able to find work pretty quickly, but to be honest it's the least of my worries. Once I'm back with my family, the rest can fall into place in time.

Being away from them is poo!

best of luck with with it. have ya flights/ferry booked. im sure the family will be be glad to have ya back. i know people were saying that its never the right time to move back but it sounds like you have found the right time.

magicmushroom · 31-07-2015 2:39pm

Old Perry wrote: »

best of luck with with it. have ya flights/ferry booked. im sure the family will be be glad to have ya back. i know people were saying that its never the right time to move back but it sounds like you have found the right time.

Thanks Old Perry

Yeah I just feel like it's time to go back - I have not ties here and in my heart I feel that home is where the family is!

No flights or ferry booked yet - my plan is to sell my car and buy an English reg in Newry and drive it over, I can take more stuff with me then and also saves me the hassle of being without a car when I first arrive there.
I'm just trying to re-home my 2 cats before I decide an exact date!
Have told my work though so it's all 'real' haha - can't wait to get going now

spunkymunky · 31-07-2015 2:52pm

Ive read through this thread with great interest as I am one of the returned. I was almost 5 years away between Australia and New Zealand (Mainly New Zealand). I came home September last year, found work quite easily (IT based) have somewhat settled into Irish life, meeting friends and family, going for pints and trying to see as much of Ireland as I can.
Probably the main reasons for leaving was family (common theme here) also a sense of isolation (brought on by choices I made while there, fixable in hindsight )…which lead to a sense of unhappiness ☹

Its been a good year but part of me cant shake that I should be back in New Zealand or not in Ireland. Not sure why but Dublin doesn’t seem the same (Ireland too!!) ….What was the Dubliner line about you cant go home??? I have changed and so has Dublin…it all seems so serious now!!

Anyway…just wondering if anyone has come back to Ireland, assessed and left again, back to where they came home from? If so, how did you get on? Was is a good move, did you make more of an effort?
(I hope this isnt hijacking the thread...not my intention)

magicmushroom · 31-07-2015 2:59pm

spunkymunky wrote: »

Probably the main reasons for leaving was family (common theme here) also a sense of isolation (brought on by choices I made while there, fixable in hindsight )…which lead to a sense of unhappiness ☹

Its been a good year but part of me cant shake that I should be back in New Zealand or not in Ireland. Not sure why but Dublin doesn’t seem the same (Ireland too!!) ….What was the Dubliner line about you cant go home??? I have changed and so has Dublin…it all seems so serious now!!

I've highlighted these parts as they're so relevant to me!
Feeling isolated is exactly why I'm going, I live by myself and get SO lonely and miserable.

The 2nd part, well I'm worried that home has also changed, and I fear that I will miss Ireland after a while!
But life is too short for these worries I guess.

Could you go back to New Zealand if you wanted? Did you have residency or would you be able to get another Visa?

Musicman2000 · 31-07-2015 3:11pm

iusedtoknow wrote: »

well a lot of my friends who have already gone "home" would beg to differ. They work in IT , an industry which weathered the storms pretty well and is now flourishing again - if a little more constrained than it was in 2006.

For builders etc, there isn't a boom - but people will soon forget the idiocy that led to the crash and there will be estates of new builds before you know it, and the brickies can come back and rake it all in again.

I depends which area of IT you work in or in a specialised area. Yes they are crying out for java programmers etc. Its well paid but extremely hard work and not for everyone. I am a System Administrator after completing 5 years of courses and working 3 years in the industry I am finding it very hard to get work outside of Dublin.

Dublin is in a bubble and doing well especially with IT companies but the rest of the country is forgotten about. The major problem with Dublin is the price of rent is gone threw the roof and i personally couldn't afford to pay the prices. So I am the opposite and looking to move to the UK for IT work. So its not all good when it comes to the world of IT in Ireland.

iusedtoknow · 31-07-2015 4:13pm

Musicman2000 wrote: »

I depends which area of IT you work in or in a specialised area. Yes they are crying out for java programmers etc. Its well paid but extremely hard work and not for everyone. I am a System Administrator after completing 5 years of courses and working 3 years in the industry I am finding it very hard to get work outside of Dublin.

Dublin is in a bubble and doing well especially with IT companies but the rest of the country is forgotten about. The major problem with Dublin is the price of rent is gone threw the roof and i personally couldn't afford to pay the prices. So I am the opposite and looking to move to the UK for IT work. So its not all good when it comes to the world of IT in Ireland.

A few walked into Sys admin, PM and Service Management in Cork and Galway with little or no problems. None are coders. A couple walked into jobs in Belfast and Dublin. Most started their careers in Ireland, moved to the UK or the continent and came back - they are looking at around +5 year experience each.

jaymcg91 · 31-07-2015 4:26pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

Out of interest. Did you plan that you'd have the kids you want to have before leaving the US? So you had two in quick succession so you could move back to Ireland with them having their US citizenship?

Any hassle getting the kids over to Ireland? What did you have to do to bring them there? I'm thinking of a similar strategy. I'd like to have my kids in the US and then move to Ireland with a bit of a nest egg built. My wife is American\Thai. My kids some day will be American. I'm hoping since they are my family, it'll be easy enough to get them visa and then eventually naturalized as citizens.

Children born abroad to Irish nationals are automatically regarded as citizens (this was my situation). So if your kid is born in the US they're entitled to 2 passports

, you'd just need to send your birth cert or passport (I'm not sure on the exact documentation) with their passport application.

Wompa1 · 31-07-2015 5:04pm

Musicman2000 wrote: »

I depends which area of IT you work in or in a specialised area. Yes they are crying out for java programmers etc. Its well paid but extremely hard work and not for everyone. I am a System Administrator after completing 5 years of courses and working 3 years in the industry I am finding it very hard to get work outside of Dublin.

Dublin is in a bubble and doing well especially with IT companies but the rest of the country is forgotten about. The major problem with Dublin is the price of rent is gone threw the roof and i personally couldn't afford to pay the prices. So I am the opposite and looking to move to the UK for IT work. So its not all good when it comes to the world of IT in Ireland.

My previous employers went on a Java hiring spree. The money was good by Galway terms but nowhere near as good as over here. I'm in Phoenix which isn't like San Francisco, New York, Chicago or even Seattle...ya know, it's relatively cheap living and the rate of pay is still unbelievable. I might just be lucky but I don't think so...I think it's pretty much the going rate for someone with my experience here.

When I move back to Ireland, I'll be going back to 40k max

spunkymunky · 01-08-2015 1:26pm

magicmushroom wrote: »

I've highlighted these parts as they're so relevant to me!
Feeling isolated is exactly why I'm going, I live by myself and get SO lonely and miserable.

The 2nd part, well I'm worried that home has also changed, and I fear that I will miss Ireland after a while!
But life is too short for these worries I guess.

Could you go back to New Zealand if you wanted? Did you have residency or would you be able to get another Visa?

I wouldnt go so fae as SO Lonely in my case but somewhat... I wasnt happy either way ( I thought anyway)
If you do miss Ireland, its only a short hope over.

I have PR so can back, and could probably get my job back too, so the options are good...its the distance and a big move (again) at 34!!!

Jim2007 · 01-08-2015 2:16pm

Riverireland wrote: »

To anyone thinking of coming home think twice. News of Ireland recovery are being greatly exaggerated.

The facts beg to differ and I'd rely on them over opinion any day.

Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

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