Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

FURET · 17-06-2015 3:53pm

Yes and yes!

Wompa1 · 17-06-2015 3:58pm

FURET wrote: »

Yes and yes!

I might need to look into that again. I would have been making a lot of money but it wasn't enough to rush over there. Also the terms and what the manager told me about the nature of business over there put me off but I'm being told now that it might have been unique for that one company.

The Corinthian · 17-06-2015 4:05pm

FURET wrote: »

I have no plans to return home for at least 20 years if I can help it.

Same here. Not quite the same fan of the expat life (I avoid them for the most part), but unlike you I live in a European country, so integration is much easier.

Much greater opportunity to save money, without the government inventing new ways to tax it.
When you do pay tax, you see value for money.
Public transport that works. Really. It's an eye-opener what low standards people are willing to accept as normal in Ireland. And cheaper than Ireland!
No paternalistic (or perhaps materialistic, more correctly) laws telling you how you must live your life.
Seasons.

So I can't see myself returning to Weiss Afrika in a hurry.

iusedtoknow · 17-06-2015 4:43pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Same here. Not quite the same fan of the expat life (I avoid them for the most part), but unlike you I live in a European country, so integration is much easier.
Much greater opportunity to save money, without the government inventing new ways to tax it.

When you do pay tax, you see value for money.

Public transport that works. Really. It's an eye-opener what low standards people are willing to accept as normal in Ireland. And cheaper than Ireland!

No paternalistic (or perhaps materialistic, more correctly) laws telling you how you must live your life.

Seasons.

So I can't see myself returning to Weiss Afrika in a hurry.

I love Zurich. I go to Basel a lot for work and if I have a free weekend I tend to hop on the train and hang out there. Switzerland strikes me as a great place to live, though I have a lot of colleagues from Spain that moved there and find it very restrictive - one has a neighbor that complains if she hears footsteps after 9pm (even if he has hausshuhe on!)

keithclancy · 17-06-2015 8:09pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Same here. Not quite the same fan of the expat life (I avoid them for the most part), but unlike you I live in a European country, so integration is much easier.
Much greater opportunity to save money, without the government inventing new ways to tax it.

When you do pay tax, you see value for money.

Public transport that works. Really. It's an eye-opener what low standards people are willing to accept as normal in Ireland. And cheaper than Ireland!

No paternalistic (or perhaps materialistic, more correctly) laws telling you how you must live your life.

Seasons.

So I can't see myself returning to Weiss Afrika in a hurry.

It's a bit of shock to see people going crazy over a train being a few minutes late.

The Corinthian · 18-06-2015 11:02am

iusedtoknow wrote: »

I love Zurich. I go to Basel a lot for work and if I have a free weekend I tend to hop on the train and hang out there. Switzerland strikes me as a great place to live, though I have a lot of colleagues from Spain that moved there and find it very restrictive - one has a neighbor that complains if she hears footsteps after 9pm (even if he has hausshuhe on!)

The archetypal 'Swiss neighbour syndrome' is a matter of luck. I've been lucky, but sometimes you come across them. As with renting anywhere, it's a case of checking around first - too many surnames of a certain nationality, for example, on the letter boxes.

There are pros and cons to living anywhere. And some people adapt better to places than others. And some people adapt to specific places better than others.

However from a long term financial point of view, Ireland is not a good place to live. Too easy to end up living hand to mouth. And if so, good luck to you in your old age, cos you'll need it.

Long Gone · 18-06-2015 12:58pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

Are you in the middle east? Is it 100k euros?

I wouldn't get out of bed for that.......

The Corinthian · 18-06-2015 1:05pm

Long Gone wrote: »

I wouldn't get out of bed for that.......

That's one way to earn it, I suppose...

Long Gone · 18-06-2015 1:15pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

That's one way to earn it, I suppose...

Well you would probably know, although he was talking about 100,000 Euros not the 100,010 cents that you think he's talking about.

Which of the sailors paid you the 10 cents ?

- They probably all did....... ! .:D

The Corinthian · 18-06-2015 1:16pm

Long Gone wrote: »

Well you would probably know, although he was talking about 100,000 Euros the 100,010 cents that you think he's talking about. Which of them paid you the 10 cents ? - They probably all did....... ! .:D

Worst attempt at a come back in history...

Long Gone · 18-06-2015 1:26pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Worst attempt at a come back in history...

You think so ? - You haven't heard anything yet ! - 18,230 Posts...... ? ! Have we touched a nerve here ? -Don't try to give it if you can't take it !:D

Magico Gonzalez · 18-06-2015 3:10pm

Long Gone wrote: »

You think so ? - You haven't heard anything yet ! - 18,230 Posts...... ? ! Have we touched a nerve here ? -Don't try to give it if you can't take it !:D

You might be better with this "hilarity" in After Hours...

Back on topic. Another restriction for me would be the fact my OH couldn't work. She did when she worked in Ireland previously, senior mgr position as an accountant. She doesn't have a European passport. If I moved back we'd both want to be working and that wouldn't be easy straight off the bat. I have UK and Irish passports, Ireland are slightly less restrictive than the UK at least.

Jim2007 · 18-06-2015 8:39pm

Well as it happens I was discussing my thoughts on retirement with a colleague a few days ago and she made a statement that shocked me - "Well you obviously you won't be going back to Ireland". On questioning, she went on to say that in her eyes I was more Swiss than Irish, especially when it comes to things that annoy me, such as being late, disorganisation etc...

I don't like it but I'm suddenly not so sure that I can go back and settle in after 30 years! Perhaps I need to rethink...

keith16 · 18-06-2015 8:48pm

Living in Switzerland here coming up on one year. Definitely miss home more than I thought I would.

I would walk into a job back home and there is a lot to be said for a nice, settled, life back home with friends and family nearby.

But I have no intention of moving back home just yet, something is keeping me here, not sure what.

Wompa1 · 18-06-2015 9:26pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well as it happens I was discussing my thoughts on retirement with a colleague a few days ago and she made a statement that shocked me - "Well you obviously you won't be going back to Ireland". On questioning, she went on to say that in her eyes I was more Swiss than Irish, especially when it comes to things that annoy me, such as being late, disorganisation etc...

I don't like it but I'm suddenly not so sure that I can go back and settle in after 30 years! Perhaps I need to rethink...

Mostly fair, I think. Although, I will say I only found Dubliners to have a habit of being late. Disorganization, I'll give you that one but it's a bit of a trade off for some slack and being less highly strung.

I have loved all of the Switz people that I've met but I've got the feeling that they've been kind of tightly wound. They have a good sense of humor and enjoy life but seem tense for some reason...might be wrong on that.

The Corinthian · 19-06-2015 7:11am

Wompa1 wrote: »

I have loved all of the Switz people that I've met but I've got the feeling that they've been kind of tightly wound. They have a good sense of humor and enjoy life but seem tense for some reason...might be wrong on that.

The Swiss are actually quite simelar to the Irish in many ways. Culturally, your average Swiss is two or three generations at most away from a farm or village in some rural area, with a low population and where maybe the main businesses were owned by a handful of families, resulting in a situation whereby if you have nothing good to say, you say nothing and where you trust and do business with those you grew up with, went to school or college with, have known for years and while you might make friends, it takes a long time for them to be real friends.

Sound familiar? That's because I've also described Ireland, and in this regard, the Swiss are every bit as passive aggressive as us. We'll make a deal over a few pints of Guinness, they'll do the same over a few Stange. All very upstanding and respectable, until you know them well and they trust you, they'll let you in on how they fiddle their taxes or get round paying a fine because of someone they know. Just like Ireland.

That's not to say they're exactly like us; they lack our acceptance of unemployment as an acceptable alternative lifestyle, will tend not to get into drunken fights (I never thought we were prone to this until I left Ireland and saw how other cultures behave when drunk) and are obsessed with being seen as upstanding citizens.

All of which caused me to eventually conclude that a a fair description of a Swiss is an Irishman with Asperger Syndrome.

keith16 wrote: »

But I have no intention of moving back home just yet, something is keeping me here, not sure what.

It's the rösti.

pwurple · 19-06-2015 7:32am

Moving back is all about what situation you are moving back into. I do contract work, so we were fairly flexible. We lived in the US for years, then Switzerland for a short bit, also the UK. But we are delighted to be back. We live in a great area here now, with amenities on the doorstep. Buses every ten minutes, rowing clubs, tennis clubs, sports pitches, pubs and restaurants all within walking distance. The only reason we could afford to get this area, was by living abroad, biding our time, (and buying during a downturn!).

Also, while the lifestyle was good everywhere we went really, if there were things that pissed me off, I felt we could do nothing about them... Politically disconnected. In Switzerland for example, I got a fine for planting the wrong colour flowers in my window boxes in the town we lived in. In one part of the US, they wouldn't accept my passport as valid ID. I'm relatively active in a community, if I see something that I think needs changing, I go to representatives, maybe write a letter. That goes nowhere if you are an immigrant/migrant. No vote = you don't matter.

The Corinthian · 19-06-2015 9:28am

pwurple wrote: »

Politically disconnected. In Switzerland for example, I got a fine for planting the wrong colour flowers in my window boxes in the town we lived in.

That's not entirely true. I actually know some of the local politicians. Even drink with them. Depends on your networking skills really. Additionally, I've had a few fines and all of them cancelled; largely because most of the clerical staff working for the Gemeinde tend to be second generation Italian and it's not difficult to get one hand to wash the other if you know the lingo.

Ultimately, there are always ways around such things - even in Ireland, I realized long ago that the envelope is mightier than the ballot.

keithclancy · 19-06-2015 10:59am

pwurple wrote: »

Moving back is all about what situation you are moving back into. I do contract work, so we were fairly flexible. We lived in the US for years, then Switzerland for a short bit, also the UK. But we are delighted to be back. We live in a great area here now, with amenities on the doorstep. Buses every ten minutes, rowing clubs, tennis clubs, sports pitches, pubs and restaurants all within walking distance. The only reason we could afford to get this area, was by living abroad, biding our time, (and buying during a downturn!).

Also, while the lifestyle was good everywhere we went really, if there were things that pissed me off, I felt we could do nothing about them... Politically disconnected. In Switzerland for example, I got a fine for planting the wrong colour flowers in my window boxes in the town we lived in. In one part of the US, they wouldn't accept my passport as valid ID. I'm relatively active in a community, if I see something that I think needs changing, I go to representatives, maybe write a letter. That goes nowhere if you are an immigrant/migrant. No vote = you don't matter.

In Ireland there are also strange situations like that.

In Clonmel my aunt got a notification from Clonmel Corporation that she had painted her door a color that wasn't permitted, I think it was blue or something. She had to change it otherwise there was a fine.

In Ireland I couldn't use my Passport as ID to buy alcohol, they said I needed a Garda Age card, when I said I didn't live in Ireland they didn't believe me and it was just the way it is.

Ireland is easy in some ways but completely backwards in others, with no Formal registration process when you arrive you have to go proving things with bank statements, bills and ferry/plane tickets, over here you just get an extract from the register from City Hall that states you are resident here.

When you arrive here you register with the City Hall and are in a National Register, you have a National Digital Identity which you can use to interact with Government and Private organisations. I haven't had to physically go into a bank in around 5 years I think, everything is online.

Another big one is Car Insurance, Irish Insurers don't accept a No Claims Bonus from Insurers outside of Ireland, wheres an Dutch Insurer had no problem accepting my NCB from Ireland, to get around this I know many Irish people that have a fictional car on paper that they insure for 2 weeks every six months to keep their NCB in Ireland.

Saying Switzerland is politically disconnected though, I thought it's one of the most politically connected countries in the world with direct democracy

http://direct-democracy.geschichte-schweiz.ch/

The Corinthian · 19-06-2015 11:07am

keithclancy wrote: »

Saying Switzerland is politically disconnected though, I thought it's one of the most politically connected countries in the world with direct democracy

http://direct-democracy.geschichte-schweiz.ch/

She meant if you're a foreigner, because then, without a vote, you don't count. She does have a point there, but as I followed on, there are always ways around that.

keithclancy · 19-06-2015 11:15am

The Corinthian wrote: »

She meant if you're a foreigner, because then, without a vote, you don't count. She does have a point there, but as I followed on, there are always ways around that.

That depends on the Canton though ? I understand some allow a vote for non-swiss the same way in Ireland you can only take part in local elections if you are non-EU

The Corinthian · 19-06-2015 11:21am

keithclancy wrote: »

That depends on the Canton though ? I understand some allow a vote for non-swiss the same way in Ireland you can only take part in local electrions if you are non-EU

Yes, true. This is more the case in the French-speaking part of the country that tends to be more left-wing (and have higher taxes).

pwurple · 19-06-2015 12:37pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

That's not entirely true. I actually know some of the local politicians. Even drink with them. Depends on your networking skills really.

Ah yes, we weren't there long enough to know the right people to be fair. that goes for anywhere you are a blow-in. In Ireland, as soon as people know someone in my family, it's all grand, no matter where you've been living for the last few decades.

keithclancy wrote: »

Saying Switzerland is politically disconnected though, I thought it's one of the most politically connected countries in the world with direct democracy

I didn't say switzerland was politically disconnected, I said I was.

Biggest thing I'd say about coming back, have your work lined up before you get home. Do your interviews remotely. Get it sorted. The road is a lot easier once you have income lined up.

CelticRambler · 19-06-2015 1:28pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

... tend not to get into drunken fights (I never thought we were prone to this until I left Ireland and saw how other cultures behave when drunk) ...

Possibly the biggest "culture shock" I had to face up to after a decade away. Another decade later and it's worse, to the point where this is actually one of the "quality of life" aspects that helped me decide earlier this year not to keep looking for work in Ireland.

I'm not teetotal, nor anti-drink (regularly serve as a bar-man at festivals & other events here) but don't like the way that a lot of Irish people don't think they're having a good time unless they're plastered. And it drives me up the wall to see children being thrown out of a place at 9pm because there's alcohol available.

Other than that, I think the comments about getting "well-in" with the Swiss apply everywhere. You've got to work at it for years, but once you're in, you're in ... and I've come around to the idea that cronyism is at least as good a system as any other for most purposes.

iusedtoknow · 19-06-2015 2:59pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

. And it drives me up the wall to see children being thrown out of a place at 9pm because there's alcohol available.

It's worse in the US. I moved from Ireland to Spain, where in the summer it was common to see kids out playing in Plaza's at 1am while the parents finished their drinks. Kids were welcome everywhere. Kid's menus were non existent (just partook of the food everyone else ate) and there was literally no where I hadn't seen kids.

Moving to the US was weird. A couple of weeks ago I went to watch the champions league final with some friends in a bar (the game was at 1145am here) and in walks a german guy with his kid. The barstaff completely freaked out and said that the kid "Had. To. Leave. Now.". Kids aren't allowed anywhere that is just booze. It's OK to be around booze when there food there (like brew pubs etc). The puritanism, even here in liberal SF on the very liberal left coast and be stifling sometimes.

Wompa1 · 19-06-2015 3:25pm

iusedtoknow wrote: »

It's worse in the US. I moved from Ireland to Spain, where in the summer it was common to see kids out playing in Plaza's at 1am while the parents finished their drinks. Kids were welcome everywhere. Kid's menus were non existent (just partook of the food everyone else ate) and there was literally no where I hadn't seen kids.

Moving to the US was weird. A couple of weeks ago I went to watch the champions league final with some friends in a bar (the game was at 1145am here) and in walks a german guy with his kid. The barstaff completely freaked out and said that the kid "Had. To. Leave. Now.". Kids aren't allowed anywhere that is just booze. It's OK to be around booze when there food there (like brew pubs etc). The puritanism, even here in liberal SF on the very liberal left coast and be stifling sometimes.

It might not be a bad thing. In my opinion, it's one of the few advantages of the US. They don't have the same romaticized idea of alcohol. They have a social scene that doesn't require alcohol. Of course, there's still a drinking scene and unfortunately a really bad attitude towards drinking and driving but compared to the like Ireland, England, Germany etc. I think the US has a healthier attitude towards booze.

I heard people on the radio here talking about how if they go out drinking. They make sure their kids don't see them. They might stay in a hotel that night and have the babysitter stay over or have the baby sitter stay over even though they come home.

The Corinthian · 19-06-2015 3:31pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

It might not be a bad thing. In my opinion, it's one of the few advantages of the US. They don't have the same romaticized idea of alcohol. They have a social scene that doesn't require alcohol. Of course, there's still a drinking scene and unfortunately a really bad attitude towards drinking and driving but compared to the like Ireland, England, Germany etc. I think the US has a healthier attitude towards booze.

The, largely Anglophone, binge drinking culture is not good, but the French and Italians have been able to largely avoid it without such Draconian controls.

For me, the US attitude to alcohol described above has less to do with alcohol and more to do with a puritanical need to control public morality common to all Anglophone cultures; everything from alcohol, sex and personal relationships is generally regulated far more stringently in such countries than you'll find anywhere in continental Europe, for example.

iusedtoknow · 19-06-2015 3:32pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

It might not be a bad thing. In my opinion, it's one of the few advantages of the US. They don't have the same romaticized idea of alcohol. They have a social scene that doesn't require alcohol. Of course, there's still a drinking scene and unfortunately a really bad attitude towards drinking and driving but compared to the like Ireland, England, Germany etc. I think the US has a healthier attitude towards booze.

I heard people on the radio here talking about how if they go out drinking. They make sure their kids don't see them. They might stay in a hotel that night and have the babysitter stay over or have the baby sitter stay over even though they come home.

Here in SF it is completely romanticized and EVERYTHING here is happy hour this, meet for drinks that. The social scene here is alcohol - which seeing as I don't drink can make things tough, particularly when I first moved.

Even though my wife doesn't drink either, she grew up around it in Spain - it was seen as "no big deal" to have a glass of wine with lunch, or a beer with dinner or a few beers in the town square with your friends while you ate tapas in the evening while your kids sat with you or played with friends nearby. It was part of life.

When you start "not doing it in front of kids" it automatically makes it an "adult" activity and one that kids use as a source of rebelling rather than being enjoyed in moderation. My wife can take or leave drink (think she's had 3 or 4 her entire life) but when she was on rotation in ER, she was horrified at the amount of 18/19 year olds coming in with alcohol poisoning (3 or 4 a week). When she was training in Spain, she remembers treating two people with the same thing her entire year - both American, both unable to cope with cheap beer.

Wompa1 · 19-06-2015 3:35pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

For me, the US attitude to alcohol described above has less to do with alcohol and more to do with a puritanical need to control public morality common to all Anglophone cultures; everything from alcohol, sex and personal relationships is generally regulated far more stringently in such countries than you'll find anywhere in continental Europe, for example.

It looks like gay marriage will become legal in most states here, though. And it was legal in states in the US before it was legal in Ireland. Even the state I live in that's backwards as f*ck legalized same sex marriage. Also, there's strip clubs everywhere!! The really odd one to me is that you can go to a strip club that doesn't serve alcohol when you're 18 and the girls are completely nude. When you're 21 you can go to one with alcohol and they are only topless. They also use sex to sell everything. I don't think they are too controlling over those aspects...those are those few 'freedoms' that people get whilst other freedoms are stripped away

keithclancy · 19-06-2015 3:37pm

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Moving to the US was weird. A couple of weeks ago I went to watch the champions league final with some friends in a bar (the game was at 1145am here) and in walks a german guy with his kid. The barstaff completely freaked out and said that the kid "Had. To. Leave. Now.". Kids aren't allowed anywhere that is just booze. It's OK to be around booze when there food there (like brew pubs etc). The puritanism, even here in liberal SF on the very liberal left coast and be stifling sometimes.

Funny you say that, I work in Dusseldorf and this bar:

http://www.thelocal.de/20150619/mums-angry-over-child-free-dsseldorf-beer-garden

Has banned kids and dogs

AFAIK he only started having a problem when there was an explosion in the Expat population in Dusseldorf since 2007/2008

Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

Comments