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Noise pollution - No Law!?

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  • 02-07-2009 2:17pm
    #1
    Sinderella
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭


    Is there no law around noise pollution in Ireland and specifically, what time construction work can be caried out?

    The shop across the rd from me is building an extension or something but instead of disrupting their customers during the day, they're starting the construction around midnight and finishing up around 5am!

    Bloody drilling and banging and shouting and roaring all night long. :mad:

    We want to complain about it so had a quick look on line to see if they are legally allowed construct at night. The only thing I could find was this from askaboutireland.ie:

    "Construction Noise
    A Planning Authority may include time restrictions, on a case by case basis. There is no specified statutory period during which certain works e.g. construction, road works or DIY are prohibited."

    WTF? Is that right? :eek:


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    #2
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    You can usually get the site shut down if they are outside 8am to 8pm window. Need to ring your local planning dept and they will advise you.


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    #3
    Sinderella
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Sinderella


    What 8am to 8pm window?


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    #4
    MysticalSoul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭MysticalSoul


    I thought there was a law, for between the hours of 11pm and 7am.


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    #5
    Sinderella
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Sinderella


    MysticalSoul wrote: »
    I thought there was a law, for between the hours of 11pm and 7am.

    Yeah, me too, but I can't find anything on it... :(


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    #6
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    Ring your local council, there are laws they can use to stop this. That would be the obvious place I'd call first before the interweb.


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    #7
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Moved to Green Issues (for lack of a better place).

    dudara


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    #8
    Sinderella
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Sinderella


    Jip wrote: »
    Ring your local council, there are laws they can use to stop this. That would be the obvious place I'd call first before the interweb.
    You're assumng I could get through to them :rolleyes:

    I've had a good root on the net now and it does seem there is no law regarding construction times... :eek:

    Common sense and decency don't come into it. :confused:


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    #9
    slagger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭slagger


    http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/NoisePollution/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1319,en.pdf

    No 16 about construction noise pollution.


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    #10
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Where abouts are you? In Dublin the hours are 7am - 6pm weekdays and 7am - 2pm Saturday. The next door neighbour has just had his house overhauled and it took six months so I know all about them.

    There are a number of things I would suggest:

    Contact the local Gardai. Strictly speaking there is no role for the Gardai in this type of noise issue (which is crazy!) point out to them how crazy this is and ask them is there any chance they could have a word with the owners.

    Contact your local politicians and ask them what are the building regulations in your area.

    Contact your local council ask them the same and ask them what conditions were attached to the planning permission.

    Ask to speak to whoever is in charge of the building and ask to see the permission to carry out the works and see if there are any hours specified.

    Speak to the shop manager. Point out the massive disruption to your lives. Threaten with loss of business. If you are really up for it threaten that you will picket the store every day and ring the local newspapers to take pictures! How about your local radio stations? Also seeing as you are adept at posting to you tube - why not put the building work up on you tube anything to embarrass them!

    This type of thing really drives people to distraction it is most unfair.


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    #11
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Its the EPA that enforce noise pollution in Ireland and its generally anything between 11pm and 7am above a certain DB is breaking the law

    Plenty of info here on it http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/environment/environmental-protection/noise_regulations
    Under Irish law, you are entitled to bring complaints about specific neighbourhood noise to the District Court.
    Types of noise covered

    Noise such as that coming from other homes, workshops or local businesses that is continuous, repeated, loud and occurring at such times and of such duration that it affects the quality of life of the person is covered in Irish law.

    The law in Ireland governing this area is (Section 108) of the Environmental Protection Agency Act 1992 and the Environmental Protection Agency Act (Noise) Regulations 1994 (SI No. 179 of 1994). While the law does not specifically mention an exact level or standard of noise that is illegal, it is clear that if neighbourhood noise is affecting the quality of life of a citizen, then you have a right to complain. Your local authority has the power to investigate complaints about neighbourhood noise and also has specialist equipment that measures levels of sound.

    A European standard for external intruder alarms replaced all current national standards in September, 2003. The new standard incorporates stricter controls regarding minimum and maximum duration for the sounding of alarms. The new limits are 90 seconds minimum and 15 minutes maximum. However, the new controls only apply to alarms fitted from September, 2003.

    EU Directive 2002/49/EC deals with the assessment and management of environmental noise. This Directive applies to noise from industrial activity and from road, rail and air traffic. It does not apply to domestic noise. The directive is implemented in Ireland by the Environmental Noise Regulations 2006 (SI 140/2006).


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    #12
    taram
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭taram


    dub45 wrote: »
    Where abouts are you? In Dublin the hours are 7am - 6pm weekdays and 7am - 2pm Saturday.
    Can't be just me or are those Saturday hours totally ridiculous? So 3pm on a Saturday is wrong, but 7am is fine???

    I'm in Cork city so presume the hours are similar enough, woken this morning at 7.45 as always by their noise, wouldn't be so bitter but working evening shifts at the moment :(


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    #13
    James Forde
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭James Forde


    Was just woken again, by construction work right outside my window, totally unnecessary as well, and ridiculously loud, digging up a road which they had previously dug up last week (which woke the whole house) farcical country that there is no proper law in place :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


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    #14
    AntiRip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    bryanjf wrote: »
    Was just woken again, by construction work right outside my window, totally unnecessary as well, and ridiculously loud, digging up a road which they had previously dug up last week (which woke the whole house) farcical country that there is no proper law in place :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


    Is there supposed to be new laws coming in soon from the greens to empower the gardaí with on the spot fines for noisy neighbors and builders?


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    #15
    Whippo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Whippo


    Sinderella wrote: »
    Is there no law around noise pollution in Ireland and specifically, what time construction work can be caried out?

    The shop across the rd from me is building an extension or something but instead of disrupting their customers during the day, they're starting the construction around midnight and finishing up around 5am!

    Bloody drilling and banging and shouting and roaring all night long. :mad:

    We want to complain about it so had a quick look on line to see if they are legally allowed construct at night. The only thing I could find was this from askaboutireland.ie:

    "Construction Noise
    A Planning Authority may include time restrictions, on a case by case basis. There is no specified statutory period during which certain works e.g. construction, road works or DIY are prohibited."

    WTF? Is that right? :eek:

    OP, try get hold of the planning reference number or the name of the person doing the development. Have a look at the planning permission submitted and the County Council conditions attached to said permission. You are entitled to view this information. In most cases the relevant County Council will have it posted online on their websites or you can go to the Councils planning offices.

    In a lot of cases when it comes to commercial property or larger scale development in residential areas, a permitted work time will be attached as a council condition. Also, the council will sometimes look for a monitary bond to be submitted pre-development in case any of the conditions are breached.

    Under the freedom of information act, if there is a bond involved, you are entitled to know what and how much the bond is for. If the conditions are broken, you can then take the matter further. I guarantee you, if there is a large sum involved no developer will be at all interested in
    forfeiting money.

    Please excuse the late post re this matter, but I just came across it. Hope you get resolution or should I say hope the matter was resolved before you read this....


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    #16
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    AntiRip wrote: »
    Is there supposed to be new laws coming in soon from the greens to empower the gardaí with on the spot fines for noisy neighbors and builders?

    I think that was just a publicity stunt. At any rate, it never happened.


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    #17
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    bryanjf wrote: »
    Was just woken again, by construction work right outside my window, totally unnecessary as well, and ridiculously loud, digging up a road which they had previously dug up last week (which woke the whole house) farcical country that there is no proper law in place :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    What time were you woken up at? Do you expect them to call around the day before and see what time your getting up at?

    The fact is construction jobs are quite labour intensive and require early starts. In my opinion 7.30 or after is fair game.


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    #18
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Sundy wrote: »
    What time were you woken up at? Do you expect them to call around the day before and see what time your getting up at?

    The fact is construction jobs are quite labour intensive and require early starts. In my opinion 7.30 or after is fair game.

    I'd have to say that it depends on the area. A 7:30 start in the depths of the suburbs is pretty much out of order. 8:30 should be the absolute earliest in this scenario and I'd say that 9:30 would be more appropriate.

    The fact is that the noise laws in this country are a joke and I can't see it changing anytime soon. I'm in a situation where my neighbours are making my life an absolute misery. I live in a privately owned semi so I'm basically out of luck. The Garda are sympathetic but they can't do a thing about it. The council publicly state that they don't get involved in domestic issues.

    I just don't get why we can't have decent legislation on this. Other countries certainly do. Hell, I believe in Sweden, you can't even flush your toilet during certain hours because it might disturb the neighbours. Those laws that Gormley proposed were inadequate but at least they would have been better than nothing. I'm really gutted that he never followed through on them.


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    #19
    Gael
    Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭Gael


    Moogintroll wrote: »
    I think that was just a publicity stunt. At any rate, it never happened.

    The heads of the bill were published in 2009 (see statement here) and The Noise Bill is actually one of the last pieces of legislation that the Green Party is seeking to pass before they leave government, along with the Climate Change Bill and the bill to ban corporate donation to politicians.

    Its debatable whether they'll get it through in time, but we won't know for sure until the election date is called.


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    #20
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Gael wrote: »
    The heads of the bill were published in 2009 (see statement here) and The Noise Bill is actually one of the last pieces of legislation that the Green Party is seeking to pass before they leave government, along with the Climate Change Bill and the bill to ban corporate donation to politicians.

    Its debatable whether they'll get it through in time, but we won't know for sure until the election date is called.

    If they actually manage to get this through then I'll be a supremely happy bunny. I've heard so little about it since the announcement that I'd assumed that they'd forgotten all about it once the economy went blue and foetal.


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    #21
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    Moogintroll wrote: »
    I'd have to say that it depends on the area. A 7:30 start in the depths of the suburbs is pretty much out of order. 8:30 should be the absolute earliest in this scenario and I'd say that 9:30 would be more appropriate.


    9.30? Do you mind me asking are you still in bed at that time? Even kids have are well in school at that stage. The construction world gets going early otherwise work would drag on for months on end.


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    #22
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Sundy wrote: »
    9.30? Do you mind me asking are you still in bed at that time? Even kids have are well in school at that stage. The construction world gets going early otherwise work would drag on for months on end.

    As it happens, yes, I am in bed at 9:30. Due to a rather crappy work schedule, I only get to bed at around 6:00 most nights. I'm not suggesting for a second that this is normal but it's nowhere near as rare as you'd think.

    Frankly I think it's perfectly reasonable that if you're going to be running construction in a residential area, to budget for extra manpower and equipment to offset the reduced hours.

    I know it's only hypothetical, but if construction is going to "drag on for months" then even with a 7:30 start, that project is going to be of sizeable duration anyway. I'd hope that in this case the impact of the residents' quality of life would be taken into account before getting planning approval.


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    #23
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    Moogintroll wrote: »
    As it happens, yes, I am in bed at 9:30. Due to a rather crappy work schedule, I only get to bed at around 6:00 most nights. I'm not suggesting for a second that this is normal but it's nowhere near as rare as you'd think.

    Frankly I think it's perfectly reasonable that if you're going to be running construction in a residential area, to budget for extra manpower and equipment to offset the reduced hours.

    I know it's only hypothetical, but if construction is going to "drag on for months" then even with a 7:30 start, that project is going to be of sizeable duration anyway. I'd hope that in this case the impact of the residents' quality of life would be taken into account before getting planning approval.
    ok lets say work would start at half nine then, thats a loss of 2 hours a day on 7.30, which is ten hours of a 50hr week. So thats 20% longer to a job.
    Why should people pay more to do a job during hours that suits you?

    My mum works nights the whole time and if theres noise she pops in ear plugs. I do the same myself because my housemate comes home at 6am from work. You should try them.


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    #24
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Sundy wrote: »
    ok lets say work would start at half nine then, thats a loss of 2 hours a day on 7.30, which is ten hours of a 50hr week. So thats 20% longer to a job.
    Why should people pay more to do a job during hours that suits you?

    My mum works nights the whole time and if theres noise she pops in ear plugs. I do the same myself because my housemate comes home at 6am from work. You should try them.

    I go to bed at 6. Of course I wear earplugs. You know fine well that they do not block heavy construction.

    I'm willing to put up with a day or two's worth of disruption to my sleep schedule. On the other hand, if a project is going to take several months then a 7:30 start would have a serious impact on my quality of life and ability to perform my job. It's perfectly reasonable to expect my needs to be taken into consideration and budgeted for in this scenario. I really don't give a fig if it costs extra, I have the right to sleep in my own home.


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    #25
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    Moogintroll wrote: »
    I go to bed at 6. Of course I wear earplugs. You know fine well that they do not block heavy construction.

    I'm willing to put up with a day or two's worth of disruption to my sleep schedule. On the other hand, if a project is going to take several months then a 7:30 start would have a serious impact on my quality of life and ability to perform my job. It's perfectly reasonable to expect my needs to be taken into consideration and budgeted for in this scenario. I really don't give a fig if it costs extra, I have the right to sleep in my own home.
    Ya i know they dont work for everything.

    Unfortunately for you your neighbour or the construction people on the street have a right to carry out work. I suspect if it went to a civil case the judge would favour the person doing the work especially if it was in reasonable hours which are usually considered to be from 7.30/8 onwards.
    Its harsh on you because of your irregular working hours. You have a right to sleep but i dont think in the eyes of the law your neighbour would be expected to consider that you would be sleeping during the day.


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    #26
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Sundy wrote: »
    Ya i know they dont work for everything.

    Unfortunately for you your neighbour or the construction people on the street have a right to carry out work. I suspect if it went to a civil case the judge would favour the person doing the work especially if it was in reasonable hours which are usually considered to be from 7.30/8 onwards.
    Its harsh on you because of your irregular working hours. You have a right to sleep but i dont think in the eyes of the law your neighbour would be expected to consider that you would be sleeping during the day.

    These are all hypothetical scenarios but I would imagine that if it did go to a civil case then there's the chance of the defendant being liable for hotel costs and / or loss of earnings etc.


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    #27
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    JAysus, the attitudes of some people here is Shockin, when did ye all get so Fcukin Selfish, One poster here wants a Construction copmpany to not start til 9.30 :eek: cos it interupts their sleep. FFS Grow up ye whingers.

    and before anyone lambastes me about not knowing,

    For the LAST TWO YEARS Brisbane City Council have been building the Herston to Bracken Ridge BusWay, the Kedron node is outside my window, that means that 24 hours a day for the last two years almost continualy there have been roadworks outside my window, thats Generators Excavators Trucks Saws, and for about 6 months one of thse Pile Driver things, and because we're a node there will be works outside the house for the next 3 years.

    people just need to
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y


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    #28
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    JAysus, the attitudes of some people here is Shockin, when did ye all get so Fcukin Selfish, One poster here wants a Construction copmpany to not start til 9.30 :eek: cos it interupts their sleep. FFS Grow up ye whingers.

    and before anyone lambastes me about not knowing,

    For the LAST TWO YEARS Brisbane City Council have been building the Herston to Bracken Ridge BusWay, the Kedron node is outside my window, that means that 24 hours a day for the last two years almost continualy there have been roadworks outside my window, thats Generators Excavators Trucks Saws, and for about 6 months one of thse Pile Driver things, and because we're a node there will be works outside the house for the next 3 years.

    people just need to
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

    Wow, Brisbane sounds like a right kip.


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    #29
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    What makes you think that???


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    #30
    Moogintroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Moogintroll


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    What makes you think that???

    Dunno, something about your description makes me think it's not the kind of place I'd enjoy living ;)


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    #31
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    What?
    Glorious Sunshine for most of the Year
    Clean Modern City
    Good Hospitals
    Good roads
    Efficient Public transport
    Quality Resturaunts
    Good Nightlife
    Beaches for Surfing/Swimming less than 30min from door
    good neighbourly atmosphere

    Besides the Roadworks, which are only really a major annoyance to me and a few of the neighbours, and Anyway I could just move, Whats not to like.


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