The End for Youghal?

Isambard · 21-11-2016 5:47pm #1

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 6:59pm

Outrageous - CIE must be spending next to nothing on the line given the state that it's in. A lot of the track was removed years ago. CIE moved heaven and earth to prevent the line being preserved in 1983 and the local politicians have only themselves to blame. Maybe they can put a few photographs up in Clancy's Bar & Restaurant aka The Railway Bar. :rolleyes:

BonnieSituation · 21-11-2016 7:03pm

It's just maddening. No lessons ever learned.

Watch as they are allowed formally close it. Sell the land and in ten years buy it back to re-open the line...

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 7:05pm

Except that there will be no reopening this time.

KCAccidental · 21-11-2016 7:09pm

Hopefully not, Youghal needs something in the future. The place is dying!

Markcheese · 21-11-2016 7:10pm

Should preserve the line by making it a greenway

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 7:10pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Should preserve the line by making it a greenway

Oh please don't.....

bigroad · 21-11-2016 7:15pm

Can they not put these lines out to tender to see if some group or company could make a go of it.
It seems to me if Irish rail cant run then they dont want any one getting at it.
A pure disgrace they are.

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 7:28pm

It would be difficult for a private operator as CIE have scrapped almost every locomotive and carriage that could have been used.

L1011 · 21-11-2016 7:30pm

bigroad wrote: »

Can they not put these lines out to tender to see if some group or company could make a go of it.
It seems to me if Irish rail cant run then they dont want any one getting at it.
A pure disgrace they are.

There is no line. There are a few bits of rotten track and not much else.

Putting it out to tender would require money to pay the PSO to operate it, and someone who can get 1600mm rolling stock - as, thanks to the cutters torch and IE incompetence - we're already using pretty much all there is and the tiny bit remaining (the 2700 class) is needed for the next expansion.

If the NTA starts tendering out lines, they're going to tender ones that are already operational first.

Idbatterim · 21-11-2016 7:44pm

could these lines be simply turned into road and run buses and bikes on them etc?

L1011 · 21-11-2016 7:50pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

could these lines be simply turned into road and run buses and bikes on them etc?

Realistically no. In many cases there is already a superior road anyway.

A double track railway line would barely provide the width of a single carriageway road.

Idbatterim · 21-11-2016 7:54pm

yeah I thought width could be an issue, but couldnt you simply run the bus from youghal to middleton on a single carriageway.

I just seems to me, that rail is so prohibitively expensive to serve these small places, but bus is far more flexible and dirt cheap to run by comparison...

L1011 · 21-11-2016 8:05pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah I thought width could be an issue, but couldnt you simply run the bus from youghal to middleton on a single carriageway.

I just seems to me, that rail is so prohibitively expensive to serve these small places, but bus is far more flexible and dirt cheap to run by comparison...

They run the bus on the existing single carriageway N25...

n97 mini · 21-11-2016 8:17pm

I think the end came a long time ago. Is this line a level crossing fest like the Nenagh branch?

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 8:20pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I think the end came a long time ago. Is this line a level crossing fest like the Nenagh branch?

NO.

Idbatterim · 21-11-2016 8:28pm

They run the bus on the existing single carriageway N25...

right, but the rail route is totally segregated and would offer faster journey times I would assume?

n97 mini · 21-11-2016 8:29pm

Had a quick scan on google earth. Some level crossings in need of work, but definitely not a LC fest. Though there seem to be a number of private roads built on/across the line.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9247676,-8.1386176,3a,75y,187.77h,75.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svMEfxn3Wp37iOuzYtOnURg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9307852,-8.0569955,3a,75y,208.96h,97.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLIxvXJYEuRhBgfa6szRRPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9356743,-8.0161873,3a,75y,258.53h,63.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqU1FAvB1nVT7N-HmDKxsFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9382484,-7.9939368,3a,75y,93.12h,75.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8J6JPxXUL-nqOrIo3jD6Iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (private house?)
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9344636,-7.9222047,3a,75y,204.91h,85.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXWdroiQfGvE02qE7w0rSQA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9361818,-7.8881387,3a,75y,262.88h,88.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swJhnN-EfqTzyP6376TpTpg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

whisky_galore · 21-11-2016 8:47pm

Think this is just a tin rattling exercise for more funding...Make noises about abandonment... local people get angry, local politicians get stuck in...IE get monies for notional 'care and maintenace'...back to square one.

L1011 · 21-11-2016 8:49pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

right, but the rail route is totally segregated and would offer faster journey times I would assume?

Its not and probably not.

There is zero financial justification in building a long distance busway to a small, broke provincial town anyway. Buses can use the N25. Indeed, they would have to from Midleton anyway due to the extant operating commuter rail service!

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 10:33pm

Cork is a county of hopeless dreamers and wafflers - my experience anyway.

Losty Dublin · 21-11-2016 10:52pm

Del Monte can correct me here but isn't it since the early 60's since this line had daily passenger services to and from Youghal? I know it had summer excursion trains besides but they were occasional if well patronised.

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 10:53pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Del Monte can correct me here but isn't it since the early 60's since this line had daily passenger services to and from Youghal? I know it had summer excursion trains besides but they were occasional if well patronised.

The daily passenger service ended in 1963 - if memory serves.

end of the road · 21-11-2016 11:00pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Del Monte can correct me here but isn't it since the early 60's since this line had daily passenger services to and from Youghal? I know it had summer excursion trains besides but they were occasional if well patronised.

1963 i think. apparently the fares were cheeper then the bus that replaced it. only in ireland

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 11:11pm

Some details here of the last days of the Summer Sunday Excursion trains that ended in 1979. The small Ads are from the Evening Echo and were the only form of marketing.

Image%2B%25282%2529.jpg

L1011 · 21-11-2016 11:15pm

Is the 19781979 correction yours, or did they actually do that in the printed ad?

Del.Monte · 21-11-2016 11:19pm

L1011 wrote: »

Is the 19781979 correction yours, or did they actually do that in the printed ad?

Sunday 19th August was 1979 and not 1978 but they forgot to alter the date in the Ad. I crossed it out on my copy.

21-11-2016 11:45pm

Some of the lines they want to abandon:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/iarnrod-eireann-seeks-to-permanently-axe-10-closed-lines-430881.html

Waterford-Rosslare Harbour
Claremorris-Collooney
Midleton-Youghal
Navan-Kingscourt
Abbey Junction-New Ross
Mullingar-Athlone
Limerick-Foynes
Tralee-Fenit
Ballingrane-Tralee

Ballingrane-Tralee was already abandoned in 1987 surely?

L1011 · 21-11-2016 11:54pm

Few of those will be extremely controversial. The North Kerry was abandoned but not sold off I thought? I would assume its to avoid structure upkeep on the Greenway and make the councils do it, if anything.

MGWR · 22-11-2016 12:03am

Isambard wrote: »

and other lines

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/midleton-youghal-line-may-formally-shut/2572831/

Disgraceful. More than enough money was spent on the Midleton extension to reopen the line all the way to Youghal. Time to rewrite the law for privatisation of railways.

Losty Dublin · 22-11-2016 12:04am

Karsini wrote: »

Ballingrane-Tralee was already abandoned in 1987 surely?

Yep, Ballingrane to Tralee was abandoned in 1988. However Tralee-Foynes was laid under a separate act to the North Kerry. As it is a line of its own accord, it needs an Order of it's own.

22-11-2016 12:38am

L1011 wrote: »

Few of those will be extremely controversial. The North Kerry was abandoned but not sold off I thought? I would assume its to avoid structure upkeep on the Greenway and make the councils do it, if anything.

I think you're right actually. I just remembered that if you come off the N21 after Rathkeale and take the R523, you'll come across a bridge with a standard Irish Rail bridge code. Found it on Google Maps.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.5114537,-9.0071485,3a,37.5y,180.93h,61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8lCyK4l3ttL-wWZ6Vpl9Bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Del.Monte · 22-11-2016 1:02am

Karsini wrote: »

Some of the lines they want to abandon:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/iarnrod-eireann-seeks-to-permanently-axe-10-closed-lines-430881.html

Waterford-Rosslare Harbour
Claremorris-Collooney
Midleton-Youghal
Navan-Kingscourt
Abbey Junction-New Ross
Mullingar-Athlone
Limerick-Foynes
Tralee-Fenit
Ballingrane-Tralee

Ballingrane-Tralee was already abandoned in 1987 surely?

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Infini · 22-11-2016 8:26am

MGWR wrote: »

Disgraceful. More than enough money was spent on the Midleton extension to reopen the line all the way to Youghal. Time to rewrite the law for privatisation of railways.

To be honest on the one hand its a joke some rail lines are abandoned when there could be a potential for visbility. The waterford rosslare section for example was closed down in 2010 but it was used a year or 2 later to move DMUs after the bridge at lansdowne station was damaged in floods.

On the other hand the government deliberately underfunded IR to the point it risks insolvency in which case of course the company would seek to cut any costs it can expecially if its not making any money at all on those abandoned sections. Realistically money needs to be made available and some stuff restored.

whisky_galore · 22-11-2016 9:06am

L1011 wrote: »

Few of those will be extremely controversial. The North Kerry was abandoned but not sold off I thought? I would assume its to avoid structure upkeep on the Greenway and make the councils do it, if anything.

The North Kerry Greenway isn't getting any further west of the Kerry border beyond Abbeyfeale nor progressing beyond the site of 3rd(?) level crossing of Fenit branch with landowner issues, so that's at a stalemate.

Consonata · 23-11-2016 6:26pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Honestly, neither should the Claremorris - Colooney line be. I mean I know WRC is a controversial subject here, but if we support the idea of rail in any form. A Sligo - Cork route has to be considered worth maintaining at the absolute least.

It's shocking that they are closing all 400km of track for the sake of what.

€3 million?

An absolute drop in the ocean, where is that money even going that it is worth closing all those lines?

Isambard · 23-11-2016 8:37pm

Sligo to Cork? No problem, change at Connolly.

Itssoeasy · 23-11-2016 9:07pm

Well I'm biased towards youghal and traveled to Midleton last weekend on the train. And IR fair play made a great job of the reopened portioned and the town seems alive and the area around the station looked great and they made a beautiful job of the signal box which I was convinced they would demolish.

I know that my memories of youghal railway station isn't a valid reason to keep the line technically open. My earliest memory in a railway setting of any kind is trying to move the turntable and failing at Age 5.

roundymac · 24-11-2016 11:23am

What were the loadings on the train like?, from what I'v seen it seems to be doing ok.

Itssoeasy · 24-11-2016 1:02pm

roundymac wrote: »

What were the loadings on the train like?, from what I'v seen it seems to be doing ok.

Well going down early it was fairly ok and then when I left at 16:30 the crowds coming off the train was very healthy indeed. I mean crowds of people getting off. Now this was a Saturday so I don't know how that translates to weekdays. But the way they have cleaned up the station and kept the signal cabin and made it look lovely.

Carawaystick · 28-11-2016 1:23pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

There is no earthly way that red highlighted lines should be sanctioned for abandonment.

Well the Mullingar Athlone line is a tarmac greenway now...

whisky_galore · 28-11-2016 1:26pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Well the Mullingar Athlone line is a tarmac greenway now...

Shared greenway. The rails were left in place on one side.

goingnowhere · 28-11-2016 1:43pm

Consonata wrote: »

It's shocking that they are closing all 400km of track for the sake of what.

€3 million?

An absolute drop in the ocean, where is that money even going that it is worth closing all those lines?

Its 3 million a year, every year plus elimination of future legal liability to maintain rights of way over/under/across the line

It doesn't impact the train service, its a total win win with no downside as lets face it we ain't seeing trains north of Tuam for decades if not ever

Jem72 · 28-11-2016 2:00pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Shared greenway. The rails were left in place on one side.

While the rails were left in place, they are purely decorative. The greenway swaps side several times and the wooden sleepers are in such a decrepit state that a total relay would be required.

The greenway will keep the right of way intact but there is no way it could peacefully co-exist with an active railway on that alignment. But, maintaining the right of way is the primary advantage and this should be done on pretty much every closed railway.

whisky_galore · 28-11-2016 3:03pm

Jem72 wrote: »

While the rails were left in place, they are purely decorative. The greenway swaps side several times and the wooden sleepers are in such a decrepit state that a total relay would be required.

The greenway will keep the right of way intact but there is no way it could peacefully co-exist with an active railway on that alignment. But, maintaining the right of way is the primary advantage and this should be done on pretty much every closed railway.

That's what I meant, those rails and sleepers couldn't take anything heavier than a rail cycle. Right of way preserved, that's all...for now.

end of the road · 28-11-2016 3:10pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its 3 million a year, every year plus elimination of future legal liability to maintain rights of way over/under/across the line

It doesn't impact the train service, its a total win win with no downside as lets face it we ain't seeing trains north of Tuam for decades if not ever

plenty of downsides, but i agree with you they won't matter as long as the politicians are convinced abandoning state infrastructure will save huge money.

marno21 · 29-11-2016 2:08am

I think that if Collooney-Claremorris is ever reopened it has to be on a new/highly upgraded alignment. The current one is effectively a tramway with all the level crossings and the low speed possible on the alignment.

It surely wouldn't cost that much more and would provide a much much better level of service.

XPS_Zero · 29-11-2016 3:16am

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Banjoxed · 29-11-2016 9:09am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Given that AFAIK the track has gone back to nature beyond Midleton, its moot as to whether Irish Rail is doing anything at all with the line. Are they claiming any particular sum of money that they could "save" by its abandonment?

The wisdom of separating track maintenance from operation is apparent.

whisky_galore · 29-11-2016 9:15am

Banjoxed wrote: »

Given that AFAIK the track has gone back to nature beyond Midleton, its moot as to whether Irish Rail is doing anything at all with the line. Are they claiming any particular sum of money that they could "save" by its abandonment?

The wisdom of separating track maintenance from operation is apparent.

'Care and maintenance' is non existant, apart from putting fencing around Youghal station to prevent the local branch of Mensa from torching it again and work to road bridges, some of which have been renewed already.

n97 mini · 29-11-2016 10:57am

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody has asked this but...is there any possible demand for this line if it opened? What's the surrounding population density and pop in general like?

Surely it's time to scrap it OR open it, maintaining it while closed seems pointless

Looking at gmaps, aside from Youghal there isn't much else. Presumably some of those inclined to use the train already drive to Midleton and park and ride from there. Midleton is not mad busy, all trains are only 4 cars.

The End for Youghal?

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