Glorney Gilbert International 2015

cdeb · 22-07-2015 4:36pm

A draw on board 5 in the Robinson confirms Ireland win. Seems I called it a bit too soon earlier on, but confirmed now at least!

First blood Ireland in the Glorney too - Tom O'Gorman with a crushing win.

HaraldSchmidt · 22-07-2015 5:05pm

In the Glorney, Conor O'Donnell has a clear advantage, and I wouldn't be surprised to see his opponent go down very quickly.
On board 2, although Scott is up the exchange, black has a very dangerous attack. It could go either way. Sadly, I think some of the moves have not been transmitted, so we don't know what is happening at the moment.

On board 3, Alex Byrne has a slight disadvantage, although his opponent looks like he wants a draw.

Tom won nicely on board 4. He has one hell of a punch!

It looks like we are lost on board 5.

HaraldSchmidt · 22-07-2015 5:07pm

Scratch what I just said about board 5, white gave up most of his advantage, and now he has a very slightly better B+P endgame. Probably a draw.

cdeb · 22-07-2015 5:07pm

Was just wondering that!

cdeb · 22-07-2015 5:27pm

Alex takes a draw; 1 more point needed to share the title (tie-breaks pending).

Took a draw on board 3 in the Gilbert - interesting call when a pawn up and needing 1½ minimum to win. The extra pawn is gammy, but surely worth playing on anyway given the importance of the match? And to see what happens. Not looking great on the other two boards I think.

eclipsechaser · 22-07-2015 5:43pm

Extremely tense here.

Robinson have won it as already reported.

Gilbert have unfortunately lost.

FM Conor O'Donnell is ahead but it's very complicated and could go either way. Conor Maher looks like a drawn position but the pressure might be high. If both draw, we win on 2nd tie-break by a point...

eclipsechaser · 22-07-2015 6:01pm

Looks like Conor O'Donnell's winning chances are now extremely low. He needs Conor Maher to draw if we're to take it. GM Baburin thinks it will be tough for Conor Maher to hold.

This is as close as it gets...

L1m1tless · 22-07-2015 6:08pm

Instead of 32.. Bd7 could he have taken f5 with his bishop?

brilliantboy · 22-07-2015 6:11pm

Neo_Ninja wrote: »

Instead of 32.. Bd7 could he have taken f5 with his bishop?

33.Rxf5 Rxf5 34. Ne7+

L1m1tless · 22-07-2015 6:13pm

Of course! Thanks for that! Looks like we could win on board 2 in the Gilbert. Do we lose the tie break?

eclipsechaser · 22-07-2015 6:18pm

Neo_Ninja wrote: »

Of course! Thanks for that! Looks like we could win on board 2 in the Gilbert. Do we lose the tie break?

Yes, lost tie-break unfortauntely.

brilliantboy · 22-07-2015 6:20pm

In the Conor Maher game White played 62. Bd5?? and black replies ...Kc7
That's got to be a relay error right?

L1m1tless · 22-07-2015 6:23pm

Yes there have been more moves since (judging by the clocks) but it seams the board has broken down.

eclipsechaser · 22-07-2015 6:26pm

brilliantboy wrote: »

In the Conor Maher game White played 62. Bd5?? and black replies ...Kc7
That's got to be a relay error right?

Board is broken. Reports from inside say he's losing. COD is going to draw so If Maher holds on, we win. If he doesn't, we just lose out.

How close has this been?!

L1m1tless · 22-07-2015 6:36pm

Very close, great entertainment! Well worth the price of admission :-P

eclipsechaser · 22-07-2015 6:46pm

DRAW. WE WIN!

sinbad68 · 22-07-2015 7:53pm

Very strange and disappointing performance from the blanchadrstown pair , wonder if they had flu or something ?. The "filler" lost all his games to lower rated players.

cdeb · 22-07-2015 7:58pm

Full list of Glorney results on Olimpbase, although a couple are wrong (e.g. we didn't win in 2009/2010)

We were joint winners in 1963 and outright winners in 1958 - and that's it.

There's a similar link for the Faber/Gilbert; will dig it up.

Edit - Faber here. We won in 1969 (joint) and 1978.

Past_Pawn_99 · 22-07-2015 8:02pm

The "filler's" games are all reported as a loss. He's just there to give the other board 5's their full 6 games

sinbad68 · 22-07-2015 8:31pm

Past_Pawn_99 wrote: »

The "filler's" games are all reported as a loss. He's just there to give the other board 5's their full 6 games

As he lost all his games subbing for a different federation, then perhaps the name " filler " should be replaced by " Trojan horse" in this case .:D

checknraise · 22-07-2015 8:31pm

Well done to the guys great result.

Looking through the list of previous winners tho it certainly was a much stronger competition. These guys are so good so young id say in a couple of years they could be a match for anyone.

cdeb · 22-07-2015 8:59pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

As he lost all his games subbing for a different federation, then perhaps the name " filler " should be replaced by " Trojan horse" in this case .:D

He didn't lose all his games.

checknraise wrote: »

Looking through the list of previous winners tho it certainly was a much stronger competition. These guys are so good so young id say in a couple of years they could be a match for anyone.

Yup. Also a bigger tournament; would be good to see France, Holland, etc, back

In 2000, John Kennedy beat Sebastien Maze!

sinbad68 · 22-07-2015 9:49pm

cdeb wrote: »

He didn't lose all his games.

Are you telling me , they scored it as a loss for all his games on glorney website because he was a sub from a different federation without providing actual results and after making that deduction, we are supposed to guess which games he won and which he lost ? with glorney site providing NO info about all this ?.

L1m1tless · 22-07-2015 10:06pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Are you telling me , they scored it as a loss for all his games on glorney website because he was a sub from a different federation without providing actual results and after making that deduction, we are supposed to guess which games he won and which he lost ? with glorney site providing NO info about all this ?.

It's all there in the individual cross table

Past_Pawn_99 · 22-07-2015 10:08pm

I don't really think it matters what the actual result was, he played so the board 5s got their full 6 games.

MBradley · 23-07-2015 8:57am

Great results by the players...many congratulations...

Tim Harding · 23-07-2015 10:50am

Yes congratulations to all concerned. Two equal firsts and a massive win in the under-14s is very encouraging for the future.

It undoubtedly justifies the inclusion of those concerned in the Irish Championship to give them tough experience just before the junior internationals.

I remain somewhat puzzled that two under-rated teenagers (Boland and O'Neill) were allowed in the Irish Championship when they weren't on any of these teams. Was there a late change of line-up or were they never supposed to be playing?

Conor Maher (bottom board in the Glorney team) didn't play in the Irish Ch, and Tom O'Gorman was young enough, I think, to be on the Robinson team. Please correct me if I am wrong on that but the FIDE ratings site gives his birth year as 2002.

I am not saying he should have been on the Robinson (especially in view of the great outcome where O'Gorman played well), just wondering why the two aforementioned played the Irish but not the juniors.

cdeb · 23-07-2015 11:26am

Dylan was on the coaching panel but his rating wasn't high enough for the Glorney. His rating was 1350 at Christmas; he only came to attention at Bunratty, when he nearly won the u-2000 section. He was then a late replacement for someone else on the coaching panel. Paul O'Neill wasn't on the coaching panel I think, and his rating wasn't high enough for the Glorney team.

Anyone who qualifies for the Glorney and another team is given first dibs on the Glorney. (Henry Li turned this down and played for the Robinson). Anyone who qualified for the Robinson and Stokes is selected on the Stokes.

Tim Harding · 23-07-2015 11:32am

Thanks for the info which partly answers my question. i.e., why Dylan Boland was admitted to the Irish Championship but wasn't on the Glorney.

It doesn't answer the other query, why Paul O'Neill was allowed play in the Irish Championship where he had a very hard time. It would have been better for all concerned had he played the Intermediate championship and Scarry Cup.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 11:40am

Past_Pawn_99 wrote: »

I don't really think it matters what the actual result was, he played so the board 5s got their full 6 games.

Actual results might not matter to you , but it does to most people. For a prestigious tournament to publish FAKE results on their website's result page ( by not posting actual results on the same page & giving an explanation about circumstances ) and making a good samaritan ( tirziman) look like a patzer, is simply not acceptable.

Tim Harding wrote: »

It doesn't answer the other query, why Paul O'Neill was allowed play in the Irish Championship where he had a very hard time. It would have been better for all concerned had he played the Intermediate championship and Scarry Cup.

Paul O'neill has a fide rating of 1954 and qualified to play in irish championship based on merit .

Tim Harding · 23-07-2015 12:13pm

Re Paul O'Neill, I (perhaps) stand corrected but see below. At 1954 FIDE he was prima facie eligible for the Irish Championship but how did he get that rating without being considered strong enough for the Glorney?

I imagine that (unusually for juniors) he will have lost FIDE points and gained ICU points in the Irish Ch. The only game he won was where MacElligott blundered (move 67) in a dead drawn rook and pawn ending.

I didn't play him in the tournament so have no personal agenda, just wondering about the underlying junior development policy?

**
Looking at the FIDE ratings website, I am extremely puzzled how he got this (apparently provisional) 1954 rating.

No FIDE-rated tournaments (other than blitz and rapid) are mentioned for him except the 2014/2015 Ennis Shield (3 games) and the 2014 Irish intermediate (again 3 rated games). Nothing prior to that. This is hardly an adequate statistical basis for a rating that is considered to make him eligible.

The conclusion seems to be that a provisional FIDE rating based on six games should not have been considered to make him eligible.

His new rating next month, based on eight further games, will be a much better indication of his current playing strength.

reunion · 23-07-2015 12:18pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Actual results might not matter to you , but it does to most people. For a prestigious tournament to publish FAKE results on their website's result page ( by not posting actual results on the same page & giving an explanation about circumstances ) and making a good samaritan ( tirziman) look like a patzer, is simply not acceptable.

The results weren't fake. Wales forfeited the board in all games. So the site is showing the team result. The FIDE results will show the individual board results.

cdeb · 23-07-2015 12:19pm

FIDE ratings can be very up and down alright.

Have a good run of form in the Heidenfeld, for example, and you could get an inflated FIDE rating.

I guess then the logic is that if you reckon your FIDE rating will even out at something lower than 1900, why not take the chance now to enter the premier competition in the country?

Had the Ennis been rated by the time of the Irish?

FIDE recently reduced the number of games required for a full rating - it was 9; now it's 5 or something. Again, aiding the chance of a statistical aberration like this.

(Like yourself, nothing against the player in question, who beat me when we last played - but maybe FIDE ratings should only be considered if a player has no ICU rating, as the latter contains far more relevant info?)

Chessrookie · 23-07-2015 2:09pm

On the queries above;

I think Sean Paul O Neill played Heidenfeld for Naomh Barrog in 2013/2014 where he will also have had a series of FIDE rated games.

Dylan Boland was part of the ICU coaching panel and obviously has shown well this year. He may possibly also have received the ICU juniors wildcard for the event.

Surely it is a sign of the development in Irish Junior chess that 6 juniors played in this year's senior championship compared to 2 last year.
This depth in the junior ranks is showing itself in the strong Glorney performance.

in relation to age, Tom O Gorman is indeed 12 and was eligible for the Robinson (he was a member of the winning Stokes team in 2013), however he was strong enough and ready for the Glorney itself (he won the Irish U18 championship this year).

Note that both Alex Byrne and Henry Li were both also born in 2002.

The strong competition for places on this year's Glorney panel has pushed all the players to work hard and keep developing their game to the benefit of all in Irish chess.

eclipsechaser · 23-07-2015 2:15pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

Re Paul O'Neill, I (perhaps) stand corrected but see below. At 1954 FIDE he was prima facie eligible for the Irish Championship but how did he get that rating without being considered strong enough for the Glorney?

Irish Championship accepts either ICU or FIDE for entry requirement.

Glorney is based on published (May) ICU ratings.

Chessrookie · 23-07-2015 2:30pm

On the Glorney;

Kudos to the organisers to have all 40 boards live online. It would be great if the ICU had their own digital boards so that all Irish Weekenders could avail of this resource.

Congratulations to the squads and coaches. The investment of time and resources by the ICU into junior coaching with our best coaches is very evident in the overall performance this week. The fact that a wide number of our top juniors have now had access to this coaching the past three years is excellent.

There was a great spread of clubs covered in the 4 squads this week.

Blanchardstown
Naomh Barrog
Elm Mount
Gonzaga
Rathmines
Dun Laoghaire
St Benildus
Curragh
Enniscorthy
St Michaels
Limerick
Cork

The competition for the 20 places on these squads is very competitive with the children working extremely hard all year long to make the Glorney squads. It is great to see such a wide representation.

By all reports the venue was excellent and the level of organisation was superb. The ICU junior officer did a super job pulling it all together.

Finally the overall results for Ireland were fantastic. It's hard believe we went from 1978 to 2013 without any success in these competitions. This year to win 2 and come second in a third on 2nd tiebreak is an outstanding result and hopefully a good sign for the future of Irish Chess.

sinbad68 · 23-07-2015 2:43pm

reunion wrote: »

The results weren't fake. Wales forfeited the board in all games. So the site is showing the team result. The FIDE results will show the individual board results.

poorly informed as usual, The website shows both team & individual results and Triziman is shown to have lost all his games ( which is Not true) , No reference to actual results or the fact that triziman games have been forfeited( any other tournament would show forfeited games) is made on result's page , and we should not have to wait over a month to get actual fide results to be published to find out about this tournament.

http://www.glorneycupchess.org/glorney.htm

eclipsechaser · 23-07-2015 2:55pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

poorly informed as usual, The website shows both team & individual results and Triziman is shown to have lost all his games ( which is Not true) , No reference to actual results or the fact that triziman games have been forfeited( any other tournament would show forfeited games) is made on result's page , and we should not have to wait over a month to get actual fide results to be published to find out about this tournament.

http://www.glorneycupchess.org/glorney.htm

He is listed as a filler. The team results are correctly recorded on the team results page. Triziman's individual results are correctly listed on the individual cross-table. It's not the Glorney's fault if you can't follow that...

Retd.LoyolaCpt · 23-07-2015 2:59pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

poorly informed as usual, The website shows both team & individual results and Triziman is shown to have lost all his games ( which is Not true) , No reference to actual results or the fact that triziman games have been forfeited( any other tournament would show forfeited games) is made on result's page , and we should not have to wait over a month to get actual fide results to be published to find out about this tournament.

reunion means here (i can't post urls yet so just delete the space):
glorneycupchess .org/individual_crosstable.htm

eclipsechaser · 23-07-2015 3:59pm

Just uploaded all the photos from the event here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/eclipsechaser/sets/72157655705006298

I'd also like to add a huge congratulations to the kids involved (and those that didn't make the teams this time around - you pushed the standard higher and made the Irish teams better). It's some achievement considering we hadn't won the Glorney since 1963. Great to see members of the '58, '63 and '78 teams giving out the prizes.

Kudos must also go to the ICU for running the best event I've ever seen. There was nothing but praise from visiting players, parents and coaches. This year's Glorney really has set the standard for all future events. Junior Officer, Desmond Beatty, deserves massive credit for putting together an incredible tournament. Well done!

Tim Harding · 23-07-2015 5:34pm

A great performance all round. In my 40 years competing in Irish chess, I think we now have the strongest group of young players I can remember, especially the under-14s.

Having played several teenagers in various events this year, I predict they will certainly be challenging the mature Irish masters and experts and their foreign contemporaries in the next couple of years if they can go on from this.
Do we have juniors going to the Gibraltar event next month?

eclipsechaser · 23-07-2015 6:45pm

Nice to be getting some good coverage!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/leftfield/irish-u18s-claim-chess-glory-on-home-soil-after-receiving-support-of-president-higgins-31399011.html

2bts · 24-07-2015 10:28pm

Pleased to see the Independent considers Junior Chess a Sport.

eclipsechaser · 25-07-2015 12:28am

2bts wrote: »

Pleased to see the Independent considers Junior Chess a Sport.

Albeit a left-field one!

sinbad68 · 25-07-2015 5:01pm

Yes, Congratulation to the irish glorney teams. It's a good thing that the English don't take this competition half as seriously as it's taken over here and they sent a second rate team and kept their creme de la creme at home, Imagine if they sent, over 2100 rated 12 year old players like koby kalavannan & anthony zhang .England would have won everything .

Tim Harding · 26-07-2015 11:02pm

You can only beat the opponents they put in front of you. Of course the British players get much more opportunities for strong opposition and probably coaching support.
Yes, Anthony Zhang (born 2002 like Henry Li etc.) could have played on England's Glorney or Robinson team.

Tomorrow Zhang has Black against GM Mark Hebden in the first round of the British Championship: the game will be live.
Koby Kalavannan is in the top half of the draw and plays White against an opponent of lower rating.

Henry also played in a violin competition in the Feis Ceoil this year. So chess is not his only interest but he is certainly capable of going over 2200 in the next few years - as are Alex Byrne and Tom O'Gorman.

mikhail · 27-07-2015 12:49pm

Some interviews with parents, coaches and players:

https://stbenilduschessclub.wordpress.com/2015/07/27/glorney-interviews/

Glorney Gilbert International 2015

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