Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The launch of Education Equality December 12th 2015

Options
  • 25-11-2015 1:22pm
    #1
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    A range of people have come together to launch a new official organisation which campaigns for the removal of discrimination in education on religious grounds.
    You can read about their mission statement and constitution on the website.
    http://educationequality.ie/

    The offical launch takes place in the O'Callaghan Alexander Hotel 41-47 Fenian Street on December 12th and you can register to attend here
    https://www.eventbrite.ie/e/education-equality-launch-tickets-19509953797

    As a new oganisation they are actively seeking new members and volunteers with professional skill sets and experience in organising campaigns, web/graphic design. Sign up for Membership and skill volunteer here
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1g6QpEolMQ5Y_EfRKZaFTdvq2IWRLUtdgJhue-IhLNTI/viewform

    Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/Education-Equality-1641922236078221/?fref=ts

    Notes:
    expectationlost did post details of this organisation in one of the threads but I would hope that all posters in A+A who have or plan on having children at some point in the Irish Educaiton system would be willing to get involved and feel it warrants a thread if its own to track its progress.

    I am not directly involved but having met a number of the people involved I can vouch (fwiw) that the group involves passionate and decent parents who are trying to bring about change due the to discrimination they have directly experience against their children simply because of a lack of belief in, or not believing in the "right" religion.


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    I was going to say in response to your last post on the other thread there is a limit to what those of us with no skin in the game (sprogs), can do or say about the issue, Or should I say those with children might be able to do more.

    also its general elections time say nothing the politicians say in response to them is real, they can have all the meetings with them they can get doesnt' mean anything.


  • Options
    #3
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    expectationlost wrote: »
    I was going to say in response to your last post on the other thread there is a limit to what those of us with no skin in the game (sprogs), can do or say about the issue, Or should I say those with chidlren might be able to do more.

    I'd say they would be be delighted to have people like you on board for quality content generation and updates on CMS/social.
    You don't need sprogs to get involved !


  • Options
    #4
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I'd say they would be be delighted to have people like you on board for quality content generation and updates on CMS/social.
    You don't need sprogs to get involved !

    you're the one that said posting things online wasn't enough


  • Options
    #5
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    I'm assuming you mean December 12th 2015, and not 2016?


  • Options
    #6
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    fisgon wrote: »
    I'm assuming you mean December 12th 2015, and not 2016?

    Haha! I do that all the time.
    Cheers. I'll ask mod to change.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    If we only had those who have skin in the game involved in the marref then we would never have won.
    Anyone who agrees that discrimination is wrong has a voice, and anyone who wants to be involved should, it is hard enough to get those it affects top standup. many people want to but time is precious and with children it is golddust.
    it is great this org is setting up, it is needed and hopefully we can see pressure being put on.


  • Options
    #8
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    expectationlost wrote: »
    also its general elections time say nothing the politicians say in response to them is real, they can have all the meetings with them they can get doesnt' mean anything.

    We've had two Labour ministers for education, a lot of talk about patronage and the need for change, and a commitment in the programme for government to end religious discrimination in teacher employment, but feck-all has happened :mad:

    TBH I don't see the next government doing anything either.

    But we still have to try.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #9
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Zamboni wrote: »
    I'll ask mod to change.
    Done. :)

    Will have a look at the links later.


  • Options
    #10
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Signed up a few days ago. My kids are in secondary now in a multi denominational school but still feel it's important to get these laws changed.


  • Options
    #11
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I see the "mission statement" includes..
    A constitutional challenge to section 7(3)(c). We are currently putting together a pro bono legal team and meeting with potential plaintiffs to challenge the discrimination through the courts. Our legal team will also consider challenges to current opt-out arrangements.
    A good cause I think. Those who support the discrimination, and benefit from it, have always been organised. But those who oppose it have not been.
    Until now.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A peculiar headline in from the Indo today:

    Labour promises to end 'baptism barrier' to school entry if re-elected

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/labour-promises-to-end-baptism-barrier-to-school-entry-if-reelected-34248073.html

    This might suggest to some that if Labour wins power in the next election, that they'll pass legislation to stop schools from discriminating on religious grounds. However, the devil appears to be in the detail. Quoth a spokesperson referring to the views of the Education Minister, Jan O'Sullivan:
    A Spokesperson wrote:
    "She has been clear in her view that we need to amend the existing exemptions in the Equal Status Act, which have created a situation where in some parts of the country, parents feel compelled to baptise their children against their own personal ethos [...] We must provide parents and children with access to their local schools, regardless of their beliefs. The Labour Party will be proposing an amendment to the Equal Status Acts, so that priority can only be given to school admission on the basis of religious exemptions, where the school can prove that using such a prioritisation is necessary to preserve their ethos."

    The spokesperson added that it would "strike a much better balance, and will make sure that local schools prioritise local children for admission, regardless of their religion, while also allowing for an ongoing protection of the rights of minority religions".
    Can somebody smarter than me this morning please tell me how the spokesperson's comments match up with the headline or how the newly-acquired election promise differs in any way from the existing discriminatory legislation:
    Statute Book wrote:
    An educational establishment does not discriminate under subsection (2) by reason only that [...]

    (c) where the establishment is a school providing primary or post-primary education to students and the objective of the school is to provide education in an environment which promotes certain religious values, it admits persons of a particular religious denomination in preference to others or it refuses to admit as a student a person who is not of that denomination and, in the case of a refusal, it is proved that the refusal is essential to maintain the ethos of the school,


  • Options
    #13
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    robindch wrote: »
    Can somebody smarter than me this morning please tell me how the spokesperson's comments match up with the headline or how the newly-acquired election promise differs in any way from the existing discriminatory legislation:
    My exact thoughts on reading that quote. Isn't that exactly the spurious provision RC schools currently hide behind?

    Short of sending inspectors out to schools with ethos-o-meters I'm not sure what's new. Lazy spokesperson is lazy, I suspect.


  • Options
    #14
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Dades wrote: »
    Lazy spokesperson is lazy, I suspect.
    Lazy spokesperson may be reading from the last election manifesto instead of the next.


  • Options
    #15
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Labour ‘baptism barrier’ pledge an "election gimmick", says school admissions campaigner http://www.newstalk.com/Labour-baptism-barrier-pledge-an-election-gimmick-says-school-admissions-campaigner now this had turned into the election promises thread


  • Options
    #16
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    This Labour "election gimmick" by Jan O'Sullivan/Joan Burton is actually at odds with what they are currently doing.
    They are currently putting the "Education (Admission to Schools) Bill 2015" through the Dail which does not stop the religious discrimination. It specifically avoids the hassle of amending the Equal Status Act, and allows the religious discrimination based on preserving the school "ethos" to continue.

    These people are well aware of what they are doing. They were recently criticised by a (fairly new) statutary body for failing in their civic duty to draft a proper bill. The IHREC whose job is to advise the govt. on policy, has advised that the existing Equal Status Act should be amended, rather than just introduce a flawed new Admissions to Schools bill which complies with a flawed Equal Status Act.

    IMO whoever wins the next election will be forced to take account of the IHREC. But at least the opposition can say they will do so, just as soon as they are elected. Whereas for Jan O'Sullivan, she has that power and that obligation right now, but is not fulfilling it.

    So the cynic would say this election promise is not just lazy, it is deliberately deceitful.


  • Options
    #17
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Our official launch will feature the following programme:
    11:00 – 11:05 Rónán Ó Dálaigh – Welcome & Introductions
    11:05 – 11:20 April Duff – Launch of Education Equality
    11:20 – 11:30 Nikki Murphy – a Parent’s Story
    11:30 – 11:45 Ivana Bacik
    11:45 – 12:00 Eoin Daly
    12:00 – 12:30 Open Forum
    12:30 Final Comments & Close
    why are they inviting a politician current breaking election promises to their launch? https://www.facebook.com/events/1126092247416053/


  • Options
    #18
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    expectationlost wrote: »
    why are they inviting a politician current breaking election promises to their launch? https://www.facebook.com/events/1126092247416053/

    What promises are you referring to?


  • Options
    #19
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    RainyDay wrote: »
    What promises are you referring to?
    People of non-faith or minority religious backgrounds and publically identified LGBT people should not be deterred from training or taking up employment as teachers in the State.
    http://www.per.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/ProgrammeforGovernmentFinal.pdf


  • Options
    #20
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    expectationlost wrote: »
    Labour ‘baptism barrier’ pledge an "election gimmick", says school admissions campaigner http://www.newstalk.com/Labour-baptism-barrier-pledge-an-election-gimmick-says-school-admissions-campaigner now this had turned into the election promises thread
    Some great wording in that piece:
    Under the current system, preferential admissions are given to children who've been baptised as Catholic in schools owned by the church where places are oversubscribed.

    The sect currently governs 90% of the country's schools, sparking difficulties for parents of other religions or those who choose not to baptise their kids at all.
    :D


  • Options
    #21
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Dades wrote: »
    Some great wording in that piece:

    :D

    I'm impressed. Ireland is progressing.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Dades wrote: »
    Some great wording in that piece:
    :D
    It's funny, but is it not inaccurate?
    A sect is usually the smaller, dissenting, part of a larger religious group (in this case Christians). There are supposedly 2.2 billion Christians in the world, of which 1.2 billion are ostensibly Catholic (with a capital C, to distinguish from Protestant catholics). At 55%, it's larger than all the sects in Christianity put together.

    So if Catholicism isn't really a sect, using such a diminutive to describe it would seem to indicate the writer is trying to take a little swipe without looking biased... or has simply used poor wording?


  • Options
    #23
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,138 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Since the grammar of the whole piece is disgraceful, I don't think anyone should get too wound up about a single word.


  • Options
    #24
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Just a quick bump as this is on tomorrow.

    Go. Be involved.

    It's fun. The are people.


  • Options
    #25
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    Yeah, I'm going.


  • Options
    #26
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    The event was well-attended and interesting. Eoin Daly from NUI Galway provided a good overview of the weak legal, constitutional grounds for religiously based discrimination against children.


  • Options
    #27
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    i asked them why they invited Bacik, they deleted my post. **** em


  • Options
    #28
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Why wouldn't they? (invite her, I mean)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #29
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    expectationlost wrote: »
    i asked them why they invited Bacik, they deleted my post. **** em

    I heard her speak at the launch. She provided a thorough explanation of the political obstacles--FINE GAEL--to making any progress on education policy.


  • Options
    #30
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,111 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yet Labour have had the ministry for the last five years and done **** all.

    Election hoves into view and Jan gets the bright idea of removing Rule 68 - just after voting to maintain discrimination against non-catholics in schools.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    Well, you wouldn't get any disagreement from me that Labour have under-performed in power. In terms of education policy, I had high expectations for Quinn as minister but after he got sacked it was clear that the next minister was not going to push forward an enlightened policy.


Advertisement