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Jessica Yaniv refused service at gynaecologist's office

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Comments

  • #302
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Just report this clown and don't engage.

    I'd like to continue the conversation about how self-id invariably results in issues such as Yaniv and other predatory males gaming the system.


  • #303
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,645 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Squats N Coke wrote: »
    You know something pal, he might be a freak but Yaniv is more of a man than you'll ever be.

    Oh no, the burn, I'll never get over it :rolleyes:

    Soon all your posts will be gone, you won't even be a mere memory of anyone posting here, try harder on your next account kiddo.


  • #304
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,484 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Squats N Coke wrote: »
    Lucky for her so. Maybe you should make her live in Rotherham? Why should she be denied 'asian' culture?

    Somebody swallowed all of the Tommy Robinson kool aid.


  • #305
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,408 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Squats N Coke wrote: »
    Another woman toes the line.

    He's a man.

    Heads, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes....


  • #306
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,645 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Heads, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes....

    :pac:


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  • #307
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ignoring the dick measuring posts (pun intended) this "person" is at best mentally deranged or at worst a manipulative predator.

    Either way, the conversation should not be about what the correct way to address them is, it should be, how can we prevent any harm being caused by their actions.

    Anything else is bluster.


  • #308
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dante7 wrote: »
    The feminists have been shouting from the rooftops about this for ages now, but no one has been listening. At least 400 women have been banned from Twitter for misgendering or for stating that a woman is an adult human female. When women try to get together to discuss this, they are de-platformed or face aggressive protests from beardy woke bros.

    Us men have an obligation to also step up and protect the sex based rights of our sisters, mothers and daughters.


    The feminists I know, like the ones in the compilation on the profile page of from https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets are well capable of standing up for themselves. They've made their position clear, and it is the diametric opposite of yours.




    1080x360


  • #309
    Venom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭Venom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ignoring the dick measuring posts (pun intended) this "person" is at best mentally deranged or at worst a manipulative predator.

    Either way, the conversation should not be about what the correct way to address them is, it should be, how can we prevent any harm being caused by their actions.

    Anything else is bluster.


    You only have to do a tiny bit of research to see there's a huge amount of evidence that Yaniv is a predator with a menstruation fetish, that's using a trans identity as a shield against criticism.


  • #310
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Just report this clown and don't engage.

    I'd like to continue the conversation about how self-id invariably results in issues such as Yaniv and other predatory males gaming the system.


    That’s like arguing that “sex based rights” invariably led to issues such as Louise O’ Neill claiming Ireland is a “rape culture” because something something men :rolleyes:

    Predators were “gaming the system” before Yanniv ever existed. The issues aren’t caused by self-ID laws, they’re caused by some people being pricks.

    I disagree with the idea that anyone should be denied their human rights because some of the people who are entitled to the same rights as everyone else are complete pricks. On that basis you could find yourself being denied your rights because someone else thinks you’re a prick.


  • #311
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That’s like arguing that “sex based rights” invariably led to issues such as Louise O’ Neill claiming Ireland is a “rape culture” because something something men :rolleyes:

    Predators were “gaming the system” before Yanniv ever existed. The issues aren’t caused by self-ID laws, they’re caused by some people being pricks.

    I disagree with the idea that anyone should be denied their human rights because some of the people who are entitled to the same rights as everyone else are complete pricks. On that basis you could find yourself being denied your rights because someone else thinks you’re a prick.

    At least we're back on track, but that's nonsense.
    What human rights are being denied to trans?


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  • #312
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    I would not refer to this awful individual as she/her.

    If someone is trans and has the treatment and gender reassignment procedure, I would use "her" and "she" and refer to her as a trans woman (not a woman, trans woman) but not this person with his creepy behaviour.


    What is 'the treatment and gender reassignment procedure'? Which of the many surgical procedures that may be involved is the threshold for you to be respectful? If someone is living as the opposite gender for years while on the HSE waiting list, will you be respectful while they're waiting, or only after actual surgery?

    Squats N Coke wrote: »
    Andrew will hire Mr Yaniv to teach his masturbation classes.
    Isn't it funny how you have to make stuff up to argue with, given the weakness of any argument you have to make about the real issues?


  • #313
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The feminists I know, like the ones in the compilation on the profile page of from https://twitter.com/AidanCTweets are well capable of standing up for themselves. They've made their position clear, and it is the diametric opposite of yours.




    1080x360




    I clicked that link and the courageous Mr Comerford has somehow blocked me even though I've had zero interaction with him to my knowledge.
    I must have made it onto a blocklist that he utilises which really isn't a good look.
    Echo Echo Echo



    So that's Gemma O'Doherty and Mr Comerford that I know of who have blocked me on Twitter!
    Paragons of free thought, speech and debate unite!


  • #314
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Dante7 wrote: »
    At least we're back on track, but that's nonsense.
    What human rights are being denied to trans?
    Yes, I'd also love to know what are these magical human rights that are being denied?


  • #315
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    ingalway wrote: »
    Yes, I'd also love to know what are these magical human rights that are being denied?


    I've yet to see anyone answer that.


  • #316
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    I clicked that link and the courageous Mr Comerford has somehow blocked me even though I've had zero interaction with him to my knowledge.
    I must have made it onto a blocklist that he utilises which really isn't a good look.
    Echo Echo Echo



    So that's Gemma O'Doherty and Mr Comerford that I know of who have blocked me on Twitter!
    Paragons of free thought, speech and debate unite!
    Him blocking you doesn't block your thought or your speech. You have no entitlement to debate with him or with anyone else.

    Funny how you weren't too worried about 'paragons of free thought, speech and debate' when you chose to ignore people on boards;

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111172235&postcount=1645


  • #317
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    I clicked that link and the courageous Mr Comerford has somehow blocked me even though I've had zero interaction with him to my knowledge.
    I must have made it onto a blocklist that he utilises which really isn't a good look.
    Echo Echo Echo



    So that's Gemma O'Doherty and Mr Comerford that I know of who have blocked me on Twitter!
    Paragons of free thought, speech and debate unite!

    I'm very wary of Aidan Comerford. He seems to have a strong interest in supporting people transitioning, and blocks anyone who questions him. Puts me in mind of Arthur Chu, the American trans activist who was discovered to have a fetish for trans porn.


  • #318
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Him blocking you doesn't block your thought or your speech. You have no entitlement to debate with him or with anyone else.

    Funny how you weren't too worried about 'paragons of free thought, speech and debate' when you chose to ignore people on boards;

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111172235&postcount=1645


    It shows he is in an echo chamber and you know it.
    I have zero reason to go looking for him really, is he a noted person or something?


    And that is truly pathetic - trawl away, I have ignored two people on boards in almost 15 years - sometimes WUMs get too much and it doesn't correlate to someone using a blocklist.


  • #319
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    At least we're back on track, but that's nonsense.
    What human rights are being denied to trans?


    Well the specific right we’re talking about is one you don’t want anyone to have - the right to be identified in law as their preferred gender. Only people who are transgender are likely to want to avail of that right, and they have to apply to be able to avail of it. Nobody should be denied that right because of people abusing the law for their own ends. Those individuals should be punished, or at the very least shouldn’t be entertained, and in Yanniv’s most recent attempt, they weren’t.

    That shouldn’t mean someone like Lydia Foy should be denied the right to be identified in law as their preferred gender. We don’t deny people their human rights on the basis that some people will inevitably try and take advantage of others. The whole concept of human rights places an obligation on everyone to respect the human rights of others. Yanniv doesn’t do that, and that shouldn’t mean that other people who aren’t Yanniv should be denied their human rights.


  • #320
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Dante7 wrote: »
    I'm very wary of Aidan Comerford. He seems to have a strong interest in supporting people transitioning, and blocks anyone who questions him. Puts me in mind of Arthur Chu, the American trans activist who was discovered to have a fetish for trans porn.


    Ah.
    That explains it.
    You see, that is my biggest annoyance over this whole subject - the ones advocating for it are determined to stifle any debate and that is a massive redflag.


    Shine a light on it and what they are up to and hoping to achieve and they scurry back to their safe spaces and echo chambers.


  • #321
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dante7 wrote: »
    I'm very wary of Aidan Comerford. He seems to have a strong interest in supporting people transitioning, and blocks anyone who questions him. Puts me in mind of Arthur Chu, the American trans activist who was discovered to have a fetish for trans porn.


    So what if Chu or Comerford have a fetish for trans porn? Who cares about what kind of porn people look at, once it is legal? Why do you care about what kind of porn people look at. Would you like to share your porn history here and let's all see what's going on?


    This of course is a pile of nonsense, an attempt to throw some excrement at the wall in the hope that some of it will stick.


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    It shows he is in an echo chamber and you know it.
    I have zero reason to go looking for him really, is he a noted person or something?


    And that is truly pathetic - trawl away, I have ignored two people on boards in almost 15 years - sometimes WUMs get too much and it doesn't correlate to someone using a blocklist.


    Yeah right, he's in an echo chamber but for it's just some people 'get too much'. You're a funny guy.


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  • #322
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Ah.
    That explains it.
    You see, that is my biggest annoyance over this whole subject - the ones advocating for it are determined to stifle any debate and that is a massive redflag.


    Shine a light on it and what they are up to and hoping to achieve and they scurry back to their safe spaces and echo chambers.


    A quick glance at Comerford's current twitter history clearly shows that this is nonsense. He's doing the exact opposite of stifling debate - he is taking on many, many people in the debate.


    But again, the desperation to throw excrement and try to score points on peripheral issues when you can't actually address the core issue is noted.


  • #323
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So what if Chu or Comerford have a fetish for trans porn? Who cares about what kind of porn people look at, once it is legal? Why do you care about what kind of porn people look at. Would you like to share your porn history here and let's all see what's going on?


    This of course is a pile of nonsense, an attempt to throw some excrement at the wall in the hope that some of it will stick.






    Yeah right, he's in an echo chamber but for it's just some people 'get too much'. You're a funny guy.


    ?


    At this stage, Squats n Coke was adding more to the thread than you are with this line of quackery.

    One person has enough of walls of text bull****tery from one person
    versus
    An activist(?) who I guess uses Twitter to spread his message likely utilising a blocklist of hundreds maybe thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of users some of which (me) have never interacted with him.
    Of course he's welcome to do that - just like Gemma.



    Non-bubble
    versus
    Bubble.


  • #324
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    A quick glance at Comerford's current twitter history clearly shows that this is nonsense. He's doing the exact opposite of stifling debate - he is taking on many, many people in the debate.


    But again, the desperation to throw excrement and try to score points on peripheral issues when you can't actually address the core issue is noted.


    How can I be sure, the big guy has me on block.
    See?


  • #325
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    ?


    At this stage, Squats n Coke was adding more to the thread than you are with this line of quackery.

    One person has enough of walls of text bull****tery from one person
    versus
    An activist(?) who I guess uses Twitter to spread his message likely utilising a blocklist of hundreds maybe thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of users some of which (me) have never interacted with him.
    Of course he's welcome to do that - just like Gemma.



    Non-bubble
    versus
    Bubble.
    Have a look at his posts tonight, the ones in the last hour, and tell me again about what bubble he is in.


  • #326
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Well the specific right we’re talking about is one you don’t want anyone to have - the right to be identified in law as their preferred gender.

    Anybody can identify as any gender they wish. I don't know where you got the idea that I don't want people to have that right. I'll ask you again, what human rights are trans being denied?


  • #327
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Anybody can identify as any gender they wish. I don't know where you got the idea that I don't want people to have that right. I'll ask you again, what human rights are trans being denied?


    Well yeah, they can, but y’know those self-ID laws you’re opposed to? They’re the human rights that are recognised in law, which means that while anyone can indeed identify as any gender they wish, their identification is meaningless without legal recognition.


  • #328
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Well yeah, they can, but y’know those self-ID laws you’re opposed to? They’re the human rights that are recognised in law, which means that while anyone can indeed identify as any gender they wish, their identification is meaningless without legal recognition.

    Hang on, that makes no sense. You say that self-id laws are recognised in law, yet they are not legally recognized?
    So, seeing as people can legally identify as they wish, what human rights are they being denied? Spell it out please.


  • #329
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Hang on, that makes no sense. You say that self-id laws are recognised in law, yet they are not legally recognized?
    So, seeing as people can legally identify as they wish, what human rights are they being denied? Spell it out please.


    You made the point that anyone can identify as they wish, which is true, but their self-identification is meaningless unless it is recognised in law. That’s the reason for self-ID laws which you are attempting to argue shouldn’t exist.

    At least that’s what I think you’re arguing, unless you’re now about to turn around and say that you’re not arguing that people shouldn’t be recognised in law as their preferred gender, because to argue otherwise would be arguing that people should be denied a human right.


  • #330
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    People can call themselves whatever they want.

    But doctors deal with biological entities, not legal ones.

    This person is not a woman who needs a gynaecologist. And no court order can change that.

    The difference between biology and legal gender is grossly underappreciated.


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  • #331
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You made the point that anyone can identify as they wish, which is true, but their self-identification is meaningless unless it is recognised in law. That’s the reason for self-ID laws which you are attempting to argue shouldn’t exist.

    At least that’s what I think you’re arguing, unless you’re now about to turn around and say that you’re not arguing that people shouldn’t be recognised in law as their preferred gender, because to argue otherwise would be arguing that people should be denied a human right.

    Again, what human rights are trans people being denied?


  • #332
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    ?


    At this stage, Squats n Coke was adding more to the thread than you are with this line of quackery.

    One person has enough of walls of text bull****tery from one person
    versus
    An activist(?) who I guess uses Twitter to spread his message likely utilising a blocklist of hundreds maybe thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of users some of which (me) have never interacted with him.
    Of course he's welcome to do that - just like Gemma.



    Non-bubble
    versus
    Bubble.

    This is very true, its the twitter bubble that generally leads to the dangerous practices as its re-enforcing some really questionable behavior. Especially in the Irish sense there is a little bubble around Dublin for certain types.

    As i said in an earlier post, the topless swim session that Yaniv was pushing for was only in response to other trans activists being denied a topless session for youths of 12-24.

    Its threads a very fine line and who thought it was a good idea i don't know. We haven't quite got there yet at home the battle we are fighting over is going to be the likes of self ID and what age a person can start transition. The end goal i would say for those activists will be around 12 or pre-puberty and when its more socially acceptable i would say we will see them being more bullish about it.


  • #333
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This is gas. There are significant difference between male and female anatomy. Just bizarre that they would go to a gynae. Better to go to a urologist. Never seen a female get prostate cancer.


  • #334
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    Im outraged


  • #335
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Rodin wrote: »
    People can call themselves whatever they want.

    But doctors deal with biological entities, not legal ones.

    This person is not a woman who needs a gynaecologist. And no court order can change that.

    The difference between biology and legal gender is grossly underappreciated.


    It’s not nearly as simple as that unfortunately. Doctors deal with biological entities according to the law, which causes all sorts of problems for people who are transgender as regards their healthcare. Screening for example, is one of the areas where it’s a bit of a minefield. I’m not even going to begin to attempt to explain the permutations involved here but I’d suggest you don’t just take my word for it -

    Information for trans people - NHS Screening Programme


  • #336
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Calhoun wrote: »
    This is very true, its the twitter bubble that generally leads to the dangerous practices as its re-enforcing some really questionable behavior. Especially in the Irish sense there is a little bubble around Dublin for certain types.

    As i said in an earlier post, the topless swim session that Yaniv was pushing for was only in response to other trans activists being denied a topless session for youths of 12-24.

    Its threads a very fine line and who thought it was a good idea i don't know. We haven't quite got there yet at home the battle we are fighting over is going to be the likes of self ID and what age a person can start transition. The end goal i would say for those activists will be around 12 or pre-puberty and when its more socially acceptable i would say we will see them being more bullish about it.


    1) What's the connection between the Dublin Twitter bubble and some strange person in Canada?


    2) What is the 'battle you are fighting over the likes of self ID' given that it has been in place in Ireland for a few years now?


    3) Who is the 'we' that you're speaking for?


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  • #337
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    1) What's the connection between the Dublin Twitter bubble and some strange person in Canada?


    2) What is the 'battle you are fighting over the likes of self ID' given that it has been in place in Ireland for a few years now?


    3) Who is the 'we' that you're speaking for?

    A re-enforcing bubble leads to situations that breed the likes of Yaniv or the less extreme Encompass group who come up with ideas like topless swim parties for youths of 12-24.

    The battle currently being fought is for self ID to be all that is needed to kick off gender transformation.

    The we is Ireland in general as in we have yet to see the extremes of Yaniv in a domestic sense. If Ireland saw a loosening of when we did our transformations we could possibly see some of those extremes.


  • #338
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Again, what human rights are trans people being denied?


    Just so I’m clear then on your position - you’re arguing against self-ID laws, which would mean denying people their human rights, but you’re asking me what human rights are trans people being denied?

    So your whole “us men must stand up and defend women’s sex based rights” nonsense earlier was based upon what exactly? Because nobody is being denied their human rights from what I can see, apart from your arguing that people should be denied their human rights because some people are pricks.

    That isn’t how human rights law operates.


  • #339
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Calhoun wrote: »
    A re-enforcing bubble leads to situations that breed the likes of Yaniv or the less extreme Encompass group who come up with ideas like topless swim parties for youths of 12-24.

    The battle currently being fought is for self ID to be all that is needed to kick off gender transformation.

    The we is Ireland in general as in we have yet to see the extremes of Yaniv in a domestic sense. If Ireland saw a loosening of when we did our transformations we could possibly see some of those extremes.
    1) Yaniv and ENcompass have nothing to do with Ireland. What is the connection with the Dublin Twitter bubble?


    2) There is no battle being fought for self id. The battle is over. The war is won. Self ID has been in place here for a few years now.


    3) You don't speak for Ireland in general.


  • #340
    Dante7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Just so I’m clear then on your position - you’re arguing against self-ID laws, which would mean denying people their human rights, but you’re asking me what human rights are trans people being denied?

    So your whole “us men must stand up and defend women’s sex based rights” nonsense earlier was based upon what exactly? Because nobody is being denied their human rights from what I can see, apart from your arguing that people should be denied their human rights because some people are pricks.

    That isn’t how human rights law operates.

    Yada, yada, yada. You said that trans people were being denied human rights. For the fourth time, could you please explain what human rights trans people are being denied?


  • #341
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Dante7 wrote: »
    Yada, yada, yada. You said that trans people were being denied human rights. For the fourth time, could you please explain what human rights trans people are being denied?


    No, what I said was that I disagree with anyone being denied their human rights, which is what happened before the self-ID laws which you are arguing against, were introduced. Now nobody is being denied their human rights, not even women, as you proclaimed earlier that “us men” should stand up for.

    Stand up for what exactly when nobody is being denied their human rights?


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  • #342
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It’s not nearly as simple as that unfortunately. Doctors deal with biological entities according to the law, which causes all sorts of problems for people who are transgender as regards their healthcare. Screening for example, is one of the areas where it’s a bit of a minefield. I’m not even going to begin to attempt to explain the permutations involved here but I’d suggest you don’t just take my word for it -

    Information for trans people - NHS Screening Programme

    I actually think that document is very fair.


  • #343
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    Seems ridiculous at first, but read the twitter thread and I feel she may have a point...


    https://twitter.com/trustednerd/status/1201665480504668162

    her three other tweets in that thread:



    How do you feel about this?

    I'm not too sure, Trans people should have access to services they need, but I don't know if every gynaecological surgery should or could be able to handle cases like these...

    There are very people who are more pro trans rights than me, I’ve had many’s the argument on boards about it. But this is actually ridiculous. It’s fighting a battle that shouldn’t be fought.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #344
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Why is it/should it be a human right to self I'd yourself as anything you choose based on an internal feeling and not on biological reality?
    Why should women make way in single sex spaces for men who say they feel they are women? Being a woman is not a feeling, it's a biological fact and a lived experience that you don't suddenly acquire because you put a dress on.
    The largest union of college and uni lecturer's in the UK, University and College Union state:
    "UCU has a long history of enabling members to self-identify whether that is being Black, disabled, LGBT+ or women"
    Anyone here that feels self ID is a human right - do you equally believe it is a human right to self ID as black, disabled? I notice they only specify "women". Funny that.
    Self ID is not a human right, Genuine body dysmorphia needs careful handling and support and when appropriate transition over a period of time. Transition does not mean putting on a dress, loads of makeup, high heels and long hair, all that does is reinforce gender stereotypes, exactly what the trans activists say they are fighting against!
    Simply declaring yourself something is meaningless if you are not that. If I tell you I am a black, disabled man, you would plainly see if I were in front of you I am non of those but self id is a human right therefore you must indulge me.
    Pandering to narcissists is not the answer.


  • #345
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    ingalway wrote: »
    Why is it/should it be a human right to self I'd yourself as anything you choose based on an internal feeling and not on biological reality?
    Why should women make way in single sex spaces for men who say they feel they are women? Being a woman is not a feeling, it's a biological fact and a lived experience that you don't suddenly acquire because you put a dress on.
    The largest union of college and uni lecturer's in the UK, University and College Union state:
    "UCU has a long history of enabling members to self-identify whether that is being Black, disabled, LGBT+ or women"
    Anyone here that feels self ID is a human right - do you equally believe it is a human right to self ID as black, disabled? I notice they only specify "women". Funny that.
    Self ID is not a human right, Genuine body dysmorphia needs careful handling and support and when appropriate transition over a period of time. Transition does not mean putting on a dress, loads of makeup, high heels and long hair, all that does is reinforce gender stereotypes, exactly what the trans activists say they are fighting against!
    Simply declaring yourself something is meaningless if you are not that. If I tell you I am a black, disabled man, you would plainly see if I were in front of you I am non of those but self id is a human right therefore you must indulge me.
    Pandering to narcissists is not the answer.


    Human rights for starters anyway were never based upon biological realities. They are entirely based upon feelings, morals, values, principles, ideals.

    Asking why should women make space in single sex spaces for men who say they are women is a bit like asking why should anyone make space for anyone in any given space. The answer is simply because no rights are absolute - so in just the same way as men had to make room for women in the workplace, so too do women have to make room for men who say they are women in women’s spaces.

    It’s not a human right to identify oneself as either black or disabled if one is neither black nor disabled, and that’s not a right I personally would have any interest in supporting. Could it become a human right at some point in the future? Possibly. But at the moment there doesn’t appear to be any demand for it, unlike the circumstances of people who are transgender or non-binary.

    I do agree with you that body dysphoria and dysmorphia does need careful handling, and that’s why I don’t particularly care for someone like Yanniv who IMO is frankly taking the piss. I don’t support the idea of ‘transitioning’ though because as you’ve already pointed out - it’s biologically impossible, and at best all will ever be achieved is an approximation of the sex they aspire to be, whether that be either male or female. There are a growing number of people identifying themselves as transgender who have no inclination to undergo any kind of medical treatment, instead simply satisfying themselves with social transition (or pulling on a dress, makeup and high heels, if you prefer), and there are those people for whom the results of their medical treatments are unsatisfying, and they revert to their previous physiology before medical or surgical transition (or try to anyway, with mixed and often unfortunate results). The point I’m making is that in just the same way as we are often reminded that women are not a hive mind, neither are people who are transgender - they all have their own ideas and it’s a pretty murky rabbit hole between ”truscum” and “tucutes” (don’t look at me, I don’t come up with these terms :pac:).

    Simply declaring yourself something is of course meaningless, but if you are legally recognised in law as whatever you claim to be, then that is exercising what is, contrary to your opinion, a human right. It would be pandering to narcissists if we were simply to allow anyone to declare what are or aren’t human rights based upon their own internal feelings, and that’s why human rights law doesn’t pander to your opinion for example. I’m not suggesting you’re a narcissist, but that’s the definition of a narcissist, and you’re right, it’s not the answer - no one individual should have the power to determine what human rights another individual is or isn’t entitled to. Human rights are recognised and protected by the State, and so in just the same way as you aren’t obligated to indulge anyone you don’t want to, they too have the same right not to indulge you if they choose not to. They also have the right to be recognised in law as their preferred gender by the State.


  • #346
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Human rights for starters anyway were never based upon biological realities. They are entirely based upon feelings, morals, values, principles, ideals.

    Asking why should women make space in single sex spaces for men who say they are women is a bit like asking why should anyone make space for anyone in any given space. The answer is simply because no rights are absolute - so in just the same way as men had to make room for women in the workplace, so too do women have to make room for men who say they are women in women’s spaces.

    It’s not a human right to identify oneself as either black or disabled if one is neither black nor disabled, and that’s not a right I personally would have any interest in supporting. Could it become a human right at some point in the future? Possibly. But at the moment there doesn’t appear to be any demand for it, unlike the circumstances of people who are transgender or non-binary.

    I do agree with you that body dysphoria and dysmorphia does need careful handling, and that’s why I don’t particularly care for someone like Yanniv who IMO is frankly taking the piss. I don’t support the idea of ‘transitioning’ though because as you’ve already pointed out - it’s biologically impossible, and at best all will ever be achieved is an approximation of the sex they aspire to be, whether that be either male or female. There are a growing number of people identifying themselves as transgender who have no inclination to undergo any kind of medical treatment, instead simply satisfying themselves with social transition (or pulling on a dress, makeup and high heels, if you prefer), and there are those people for whom the results of their medical treatments are unsatisfying, and they revert to their previous physiology before medical or surgical transition (or try to anyway, with mixed and often unfortunate results). The point I’m making is that in just the same way as we are often reminded that women are not a hive mind, neither are people who are transgender - they all have their own ideas and it’s a pretty murky rabbit hole between ”truscum” and “tucutes” (don’t look at me, I don’t come up with these terms :pac:).

    Simply declaring yourself something is of course meaningless, but if you are legally recognised in law as whatever you claim to be, then that is exercising what is, contrary to your opinion, a human right. It would be pandering to narcissists if we were simply to allow anyone to declare what are or aren’t human rights based upon their own internal feelings, and that’s why human rights law doesn’t pander to your opinion for example. I’m not suggesting you’re a narcissist, but that’s the definition of a narcissist, and you’re right, it’s not the answer - no one individual should have the power to determine what human rights another individual is or isn’t entitled to. Human rights are recognised and protected by the State, and so in just the same way as you aren’t obligated to indulge anyone you don’t want to, they too have the same right not to indulge you if they choose not to. They also have the right to be recognised in law as their preferred gender by the State.
    Well I'm glad we agree that no one can ever change their sex and that what we are really talking about here are cross dressers. No problem with a cross dresser but as we agree a woman it does not make so they have no rights to women's spaces, sports etc.
    If you choose self id in this scenario then you must be prepared for all the crazy scenarios such as black and disabled that are coming and their claims must be no less legitimate than women being told that women can have a penis.
    BTW - thanks for all the great jobs you gave us. Very kind.


  • #347
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    participating in a lie always has the potential for negative consequences.


  • #348
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ingalway wrote: »
    Well I'm glad we agree that no one can ever change their sex and that what we are really talking about here are cross dressers. No problem with a cross dresser but as we agree a woman it does not make so they have no rights to women's spaces, sports etc.
    If you choose self id in this scenario then you must be prepared for all the crazy scenarios such as black and disabled that are coming and their claims must be no less legitimate than women being told that women can have a penis.
    BTW - thanks for all the great jobs you gave us. Very kind.

    Here’s some facts:

    Gender dysmorphia is a very real issue that needs to be treated.

    People can legally change their gender.

    Here’s some opinions:

    Accepting the above doesn’t mean we have to accept that people can identify as anything they like, in a legal sense.

    If someone wants to identify as disabled, grand, but they can’t be given disability allowances because they don’t actually have a disability.

    If someone wants to identify as black. Grand, go for it. Why does it matter? You’re harming no one and get zero benefits for it. It’s not as if you change you race to black legally.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #349
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Brian? wrote: »
    Here’s some facts:

    Gender dysmorphia is a very real issue that needs to be treated.

    People can legally change their gender.

    Here’s some opinions:

    Accepting the above doesn’t mean we have to accept that people can identify as anything they like, in a legal sense.

    If someone wants to identify as disabled, grand, but they can’t be given disability allowances because they don’t actually have a disability.

    If someone wants to identify as black. Grand, go for it. Why does it matter? You’re harming no one and get zero benefits for it. It’s not as if you change you race to black legally.

    Give me strength.
    There is no point in me stating yet again that that having men in women's single sex (not gender) spaces and sports is harmful to women and girls, especially girls. There is no point saying that because you and TRAs don't care about that, the ONLY important thing is that men get whatever they want.
    And you really see no other issue of white people pretending to be black? Blackface would be the social transition version I suppose?
    Or non disabled pretending to be disabled other than not getting their fantastic disability allowance?
    Why should their legal status not reflect how they 'truly' feel. Who are we to gatekeep their true feelings of race or disability?
    Self Identification surely can't only be about what sex you think you have the right to choose to be, it has to encompass all possibilities of how you wish to identify your special self?
    Or is it actually only really about men getting what they want?
    The attached copy of a tweet sums it up well.


  • #350
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    plenty of m to f transitions seem to happen later in life, when these people have married and had families. where are the f to m people transitioning in their 50s ?


  • #351
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    85% of trans women keep their penis. They are male. They were born a man and will die a man. Why should women be forced to accept a man in a dress into their spaces so as not to upset the mans feelings? Toilets, changing rooms, refuges, safe spaces, sports and prisons.

    Trans activists have successfully managed to remove the word/symbol for women out of periods and pregnancy. In some countries it is now pregnant person rather than pregnant woman. It is biologically impossible for a man to ever get pregnant so why are we pondering to this nonsense. They are trying to erase women. If trans women do not feel safe in male spaces why not fight for a third?

    I will not refer to Yaniv as she/her for the same reason as I would not agree that an anorexic is fat. It is not true and I would be lying if I said it.


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