Am i f**ked?

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 6:33pm #1

Hi folks,

Not sure if this in the right place so feel free to relocate. I'll try to keep the background brief.......

Basically did the NCT before Christmas and needed to get a repair done which in turn uncovered a bizzare issue with the car. I won't go into the detail of this to keep it reasonably anonymous but to sort it out the garage i was dealing with for the original fix said it would be maybe 8-10 man hours so including material, close enough to a grand. A not inconsiderable amount obviously!

This wouldn't be a wear and tear issue and if i didn't sort it out, it could more problems. There is absolutely nothing i could have done, even if i was the most boy racer of boy racers in the world, that could cause this basically so the car was sold to me with this. To make matters worse, i'm just outside the 2 yr warrently i got with it. Note the car is a 161 and would be an expensive car relatively speaking....I have it just over 2 years......note that the fix that was required would have been an electronic fault that i wouldnt have known about so i strongly suspect it was sold to me like this, probably unbeknownst to the saleman to be fair.

So my questions is, do i have any come back on this or is it entirely up to the good will of the garage who sold me the car originally?

Anyone any experience of this scenario that might be able to give advice?

I'm not expecting the guy to cover the full cost but i'd be happy say if he could get it done at cost and split the cost with me but is that pie is the sky stuff?

Thanks for listening....

frozenfrozen · 14-01-2021 6:43pm

failing emissions?

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 7:09pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

failing emissions?

Nope....nct issue was complicated but hopefully sorted now....I’ve made my peace with that even though I’m down about 500 for that....the more serious issue is quite bizzare to be honest....

Toyotafanboi · 14-01-2021 7:13pm

It's vert hard to know without knowing what's wrong with the car but maybe, maybe not.

CoBo55 · 14-01-2021 7:15pm

Ah here... What's with all the secrecy?

ED E · 14-01-2021 7:17pm

Doctor, please help me, Im really sick.

What are your symptoms?

Can't tell you.

jimmycrackcorm · 14-01-2021 7:17pm

Without any specific, I don't know how anyone can advise you. If the fault wasn't obvious then I don't know how you have come-back with the seller. Is it possible to be a fault that is covered as a flaw from manufacturing - so you could take it up with the manufacturer?

biko · 14-01-2021 7:18pm

I have read the OP twice and still not sure what's going on

mickdw · 14-01-2021 7:21pm

Seeing as this bizzare issue wasnt uncovered at nct,
Is there a chance the repair garage was having you on re the bizzare issue?

punisher5112 · 14-01-2021 7:24pm

So it's an expensive car, it's over 4 years old, you drove it for 2 with no issues....

Now you think the issue was there??? How do you come to this.

Just tell us what's wrong as this thread is absolutely pointless.

Is it the ECU

ratracer · 14-01-2021 7:32pm

M3 or A5??

Del2005 · 14-01-2021 7:36pm

You can try using the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services act. If the part is not a common fault then buying 2nd hand is no different to new.

spiggotpaddy · 14-01-2021 7:37pm

Did they discover an extra dip stick.

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 7:45pm

Ok ok jees, I know I’m trying to be cryptic but I just don’t want the situation to be recognised by the various people I’m involved with on this matter ie repair garage and the garage who sold me the car.....but f**k it if no one can give advice without knowing the detail then here we go.....car failed due to out of balance of front suspension...assuming The repair has addressed this, the fix involved rewiring the variable damper system.....in doing this they uncovered a sh*t load of water trapped in I think the under floor void where the modules are located...I’m being told that the door membrane is damaged or whatever on the left rear side so o assume they did a bit of rooting around.....they removed the water but alarmingly the rear seat floor well is soaking on the side they say there was a problem....I’m amazed I never noticed this before but I have found the amount of condensation inside when I get in first to be alarming so that’s obviously the reason....only reason this was uncovered was the nct issue.....so there, no more mystery....hope I can now get some advice....cheers folks!

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 7:46pm

ratracer wrote: »

M3 or A5??

Close!

User1998 · 14-01-2021 7:47pm

To answer your original question.

No you do not have any comeback. You bought the car over two years ago

frozenfrozen · 14-01-2021 7:54pm

edit this ah jaysis op its very easy to see what the car is from your post history if you want to be cryptic

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 8:00pm

mickdw wrote: »

Seeing as this bizzare issue wasnt uncovered at nct,
Is there a chance the repair garage was having you on re the bizzare issue?

I’m trying not to think that anyone involved here is not acting in good faith but there is a niggling sense that something isn’t quite right with all this....the floor well feels like a pan of water was thrown in on it it feel that wet and I’m struggling to understand how it could be that wet if it’s coming from below and given the amount of water that is seeping in....surely I would have noticed some wetness before it reached that stage.......I remember before with a previous car I inadvertently opened all the windows remotely and it poured rain over night..I don’t even remember that the floor felt that wet that time....

Filtering through all the wisea$$ replies, I don’t need reminding that the car is out of warrenty so I’m asking people for advice on negotiating a good will deal with the seller or if anyone has had similar experience sorting a latent defect with a dealer whereby it was good will...what approach might work?

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 8:02pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

edit this ah jaysis op its very easy to see what the car is from your post history if you want to be cryptic

Ha yeah, wouldn’t take a rocket scientist alright....not exactly an uncommon car all the same!

NIMAN · 14-01-2021 8:07pm

Was the car a UK import?

Sounds like it was in a flood at some point?

Del2005 · 14-01-2021 8:07pm

User1998 wrote: »

To answer your original question.

No you do not have any comeback. You bought the car over two years ago

You are wrong. Buying from a business you have a lot of protection and it is longer than 2 years.

ongarite · 14-01-2021 8:08pm

VAG cars are well known for potential of water ingress
Through cabin filter on old A6 and Passat.
VW Golf through door speakers.

Spook_ie · 14-01-2021 8:11pm

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Ok ok jees, I know I’m trying to be cryptic but I just don’t want the situation to be recognised by the various people I’m involved with on this matter ie repair garage and the garage who sold me the car.....but f**k it if no one can give advice without knowing the detail then here we go.....car failed due to out of balance of front suspension...assuming The repair has addressed this, the fix involved rewiring the variable damper system.....in doing this they uncovered a sh*t load of water trapped in I think the under floor void where the modules are located...I’m being told that the door membrane is damaged or whatever on the left rear side so o assume they did a bit of rooting around.....they removed the water but alarmingly the rear seat floor well is soaking on the side they say there was a problem....I’m amazed I never noticed this before but I have found the amount of condensation inside when I get in first to be alarming so that’s obviously the reason....only reason this was uncovered was the nct issue.....so there, no more mystery....hope I can now get some advice....cheers folks!

Had a problem with a car where the ECU got flooded with rainwater because of a blockage of the drain tube from where the ECU was housed near the windscreen, also on the same car a sopping wet carpet in passenger footwell where the drains from the sunroof decided to part company with the half that was under the wheel arch. Most cars have drain tubes and holes so worth checking a few manufacturer specific forums to check its not a known problem.

jimmycrackcorm · 14-01-2021 8:22pm

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Ok ok jees, I know I’m trying to be cryptic but I just don’t want the situation to be recognised by the various people I’m involved with on this matter ie repair garage and the garage who sold me the car.....but f**k it if no one can give advice without knowing the detail then here we go.....car failed due to out of balance of front suspension...assuming The repair has addressed this, the fix involved rewiring the variable damper system.....in doing this they uncovered a sh*t load of water trapped in I think the under floor void where the modules are located...I’m being told that the door membrane is damaged or whatever on the left rear side so o assume they did a bit of rooting around.....they removed the water but alarmingly the rear seat floor well is soaking on the side they say there was a problem....I’m amazed I never noticed this before but I have found the amount of condensation inside when I get in first to be alarming so that’s obviously the reason....only reason this was uncovered was the nct issue.....so there, no more mystery....hope I can now get some advice....cheers folks!

All cars get condensation, people suggest using an old sock filled with cat litter to get rid of that. I think you are going to have to find the source of the water leakage to make any determination about who the fault lies with to follow up. Does the door membrane imply the car was damaged in an accident?

Reminds me; I once went to get the spare tyre out of a car I had and the wheel well in the boot was half full with water No idea how it got like that and I had to pump it out. Never happened since - total mystery...

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 8:23pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Was the car a UK import?

Sounds like it was in a flood at some point?

Yes, high spec uk import.....

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 8:25pm

ongarite wrote: »

VAG cars are well known for potential of water ingress
Through cabin filter on old A6 and Passat.
VW Golf through door speakers.

Not VAG....near neighbour!

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 14-01-2021 8:25pm

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Yes, high spec uk import.....

My money is on an insignia....

And the problem being looming engine failure, oil issue ?

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 8:28pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

All cars get condensation, people suggest using an old sock filled with cat litter to get rid of that. I think you are going to have to find the source of the water leakage to make any determination about who the fault lies with to follow up. Does the door membrane imply the car was damaged in an accident?

Reminds me; I once went to get the spare tyre out of a car I had and the wheel well in the boot was half full with water No idea how it got like that and I had to pump it out. Never happened since - total mystery...

Repair garage seemed pretty sure it was a damaged door membrane issue....they said window tinters can screw them up but mine would be factory fitted so I’d say it wasn’t that.....could have been in a ding for all I know...

User1998 · 14-01-2021 8:30pm

Del2005 wrote: »

You are wrong. Buying from a business you have a lot of protection and it is longer than 2 years.

So you think OP will get redress because there is some water under his carpets, over 2 years after buying the car?

punisher5112 · 14-01-2021 8:33pm

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

My money is on an insignia....

And the problem being looming engine failure, oil issue ?

Expensive!!! No....

Highly doubt it.....

Is it a merc

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 14-01-2021 8:43pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Expensive!!! No....

Highly doubt it.....

Is it a merc

Oh so is it a timing chain issue ?

ongarite · 14-01-2021 8:45pm

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Not VAG....near neighbour!

I can see after some searching you have an F10 520d.

Have you ever heard of the BMW yellow gromet issue?
Well time for some reading!

https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/116098-heavy-rain-water-leak/

punisher5112 · 14-01-2021 8:45pm

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Oh so is it a timing chain issue ?

I'd say water in the electronic parts.

The op has no come back unless they could definitely show there is a common fault in manufacturing

Wetbench4 · 14-01-2021 8:46pm

Is the rear footwell wet on the passenger side?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcC8dRC1sc

Dirty Nails · 14-01-2021 9:25pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Is the rear footwell wet on the passenger side?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcC8dRC1sc

2 things struck me in the video.
Why is there 50mm of water in that box panel,that couldn't be right. The panel prob should drain inside the wings.

With all that sealer he could have pushed the grommet in to the hole rather than pulling it out.

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 9:39pm

ongarite wrote: »

I can see after some searching you have an F10 520d.

Have you ever heard of the BMW yellow gromet issue?
Well time for some reading!

https://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/116098-heavy-rain-water-leak/

I watched a YouTube video about it I think but will look at that thanks.....rear passenger footwell is the only place it’s wet so highly likely it’s from the door as the garage thinks/has checked....

MarcusP12 · 14-01-2021 9:42pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

Is the rear footwell wet on the passenger side?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lcC8dRC1sc

It is yeah! I watched that video quickly.....maybe I should look properly again....rear passenger side is the only place that’s wet.....

yamaha4life · 14-01-2021 11:19pm

They think the water is coming in through the door into the foot well? Ive heard of using a smoke/fog machine inside car to help find source of ingress the fog will escape where the water is coming in.

might be worth a try (ive never tried it myself just heard of it)

Isambard · 14-01-2021 11:42pm

did they say anything about accident damage?

Del2005 · 15-01-2021 5:53am

User1998 wrote: »

So you think OP will get redress because there is some water under his carpets, over 2 years after buying the car?

I'm not saying that they will get redress but they have a chance because they bought from a business, buying 2 years ago doesn't absolve the business of responsibility.

wandererz · 15-01-2021 6:14am

How would boy racers have anything to do with this?
Unless perhaps they were driving through floods??

I thought you had a problem with reprogramming of the Ecu or something for more power.

But, a water/flooding problem? And two years later??

Lantus · 15-01-2021 6:30am

I think you just need to get this fixed. If it was a uk import and you are resident in ireland you no longer have consumer rights in the uk as before. I would not waste energy on that route given the time and location and how easy it would be for them to dodge the issue even if they remember it how would you prove it was sold in that condition and they are responsible?

Sounds fixable though and hope you get it sorted.

Mellor · 15-01-2021 6:54am

MarcusP12 wrote: »

This wouldn't be a wear and tear issue and if i didn't sort it out, it could more problems. There is absolutely nothing i could have done, even if i was the most boy racer of boy racers in the world, that could cause this basically so the car was sold to me with this.

So there's absolutely nothing you could have done to have caused it. No matter how you drove it.
But you seem convinced that the previous driver caused it while driving, which isn't possible to the above.

So either it's a defect from manufacturer. Which I assume it out of warranty, but you can try BMW.
Or it spontaneously happened. Which could just as likely been after you bought it as before. More likely in fact.

At least you likely found out why your suspension damper settings were unreactive.

ba_barabus · 15-01-2021 9:50am

OP door membranes can rupture on their own. We had a 2007 Mondeo from new, 3 years old it started to let water in for no reason. Turns out the membrane in the rear door had started leaking. It was an easy fix. Youve sadly left it and the electrics have been damaged.

MarcusP12 · 15-01-2021 10:22am

Lantus wrote: »

I think you just need to get this fixed. If it was a uk import and you are resident in ireland you no longer have consumer rights in the uk as before. I would not waste energy on that route given the time and location and how easy it would be for them to dodge the issue even if they remember it how would you prove it was sold in that condition and they are responsible?

Sounds fixable though and hope you get it sorted.

Just to clarify, i bought it from a reputable garage who in turn brought it in from the UK....i'm guessing you are thinking i got it direct from the UK myself....cheers for the well wishes....

MarcusP12 · 15-01-2021 10:26am

ba_barabus wrote: »

OP door membranes can rupture on their own. We had a 2007 Mondeo from new, 3 years old it started to let water in for no reason. Turns out the membrane in the rear door had started leaking. It was an easy fix. Youve sadly left it and the electrics have been damaged.

Just to be clear, i didn't leave anything.....one of the reasons i'm bemused by this is that there was no obvious signs of an issue of this scale before the garage uncovered it.....

MarcusP12 · 15-01-2021 10:28am

Mellor wrote: »

So there's absolutely nothing you could have done to have caused it. No matter how you drove it.
But you seem convinced that the previous driver caused it while driving, which isn't possible to the above.

So either it's a defect from manufacturer. Which I assume it out of warranty, but you can try BMW.
Or it spontaneously happened. Which could just as likely been after you bought it as before. More likely in fact.

At least you likely found out why your suspension damper settings were unreactive.

well it could be as a result of a shoddy repair from a crash of ding....i know i didn't cause it (by my driving or otherwise) so could be previous owner....

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-01-2021 11:23am

Even highly reputable garages/dealers have limits as to what they will cover regardless of what the problem is. You say it didn't happen in your time as owner but you have absolutely no proof when it happened and no dealer is going to cover any work on a car they sold 2 years ago and has most likely been driven in excess of 50k in that time...no way no how.

Unfortunately this is on you.

kirving · 15-01-2021 12:47pm

If you can dig up enough information online about others having similar issues, to indicate that it's a common problem with that model, and there is no evidence of any previous repair or damage, you could at least argue your case with a main dealer to get some contribution on the repair cost from the manufacturer.

Mango Joe · 15-01-2021 1:50pm

As an aside - I'm really curious as everyone I know that has/had a BMW has had constant problems with highly expensive repair bills to match.

Are BMW still a premium brand in terms of innovation, engineering and execution or are they still trading off reputation and prestige they just no longer have the right to any more????

Surely they should be be at the bottom of the wishlist by now - Inevitable issues with inexcusable bills.

frozenfrozen · 15-01-2021 1:58pm

Mango Joe wrote: »

As an aside - I'm really curious as everyone I know that has/had a BMW has had constant problems with highly expensive repair bills to match.

Are BMW still a premium brand in terms of innovation, engineering and execution or are they still trading off reputation and prestige they just no longer have the right to any more????

Surely they should be be at the bottom of the wishlist by now - Inevitable issues with inexcusable bills.

What sort of issues had the bmw owners you know?

Am i f**ked?

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