Sam and DQS v Bora, battle for the Green, Stage 19

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 8:11am #1

Transitional stage time. Normally this would be the last chance for a breakaway... now it's probably the last chance for Sagan (and Trentin) to keep the green jersey battle alive.

I expect Bora to go ballistic and the chances of dropping Sam are quite high, just depends how much they can cash in with breaks the finish etc. It could bring all this down to the Champs D'Elysee

Allez Sam, and qudos to his main man!

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Timetable -Local Times

Neutralised start: 13:30
Start: 13:45
Côte de Château-Chalon: 15:34/15:39/15:45
Intermediate sprint: 16:22/16:29/16:37
Finish: 17:27/17:37/17:48

Climbs

There's a false-flat ramp just after the start of which I don't have a profile, it should be a bit over 2k at 3-4%. Aside from that, the opening half of the stage is mostly flat, until the only categorised climb of the day, the cat. 4 Côte de Château-Chalon.

The second half of the stage is a rolling loop around Champagnole, and most of it is on narrow roads. Once again, the intermediate sprint comes just after an easy (although very much categorisable) climb.

Shortly after, the route climbs to reach the highest point of the day.

Finish

A tricky, and arguably dangerous, finish. There's a steep dig that tops out with about 18k to go, although the highest point of the finale comes 1.5k later. From here, it's mostly a narrow, sinuous descent all the way until 3.5k to go. It's decent terrain for attackers, but also a less-than-safe environment to set up a sprint if it comes to that. Let's hope we don't get a big crash this late in the Tour.

General classification after Stage 18

Primoz Roglic
Tadej Pogacar + 0.57
Miguel Ángel López + 1.27
Richie Porte + 3.06
Mikel Landa + 3.28
Enric Mas + 4.19
Adam Yates + 5.55
Rigoberto Uran + 6.05
Tom Dumoulin + 7.24
Alejandro Valverde + 12.12

Points classification after Stage 18

Sam Bennett 298
Peter Sagan 246
Matteo Trentin 235
Bryan Coquard 171
Caleb Ewan 158

Mountains classification after Stage 18

Richard Carapaz 74
Tadej Pogacar 72
Primoz Roglic 67
Marc Hirschi 62
Miguel Ángel López 51

Young riders classification after Stage 18

Tadej Pogacar
Enric Mas + 3.22
Valentin Madouas + 1.35.35
Daniel Felipe Martinez + 1.51.32
Lennard Kämna + 2.10.21

Steve SilverMint · 18-09-2020 8:26am

Green Jersey fight has been such a bonus this year. Sagan having such a strangle hold on the Green for so many years. We had a few days that might not normally have been that interesting were suddenly being brought to life watching it unfold.

Bring it home Sam.

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 8:30am

Steve SilverMint wrote: »

Green Jersey fight has been such a bonus this year. Sagan having such a strangle hold on the Green for so many years. We had a few days that might not normally have been that interesting were suddenly being brought to life watching it unfold.

Bring it home Sam.

Agreed, best Jersey contest by far. Yellow was sewn up before the start, Mountains is just an excuse for a team who's GC contenders fail, Young Rider is always a good one, just one sided this year.

griffin100 · 18-09-2020 8:47am

This is going to be the make or break stage for Sam. There’s every chance Sagan will be there or thereabouts at the finish unless a breakaway gets away.

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 8:49am

griffin100 wrote: »

This is going to be the make or break stage for Sam. There’s every chance Sagan will be there or thereabouts at the finish unless a breakaway gets away.

As Kamna said, Bora are all in for Sagan tomorrow, will make for an interesting day!

Paddigol · 18-09-2020 9:05am

Will the fact that there's renewed interest in the Polka Dots (Ineos/ Sunweb in particular) have any bearing on today's stage?

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 9:07am

Paddigol wrote: »

Will the fact that there's renewed interest in the Polka Dots (Ineos/ Sunweb in particular) have any bearing on today's stage?

Only one cat 4 today, the ITT holds the key to the Mountains Classification.

CrowdedHouse · 18-09-2020 9:28am

Feck this - win the stage and put this to bed Sam!

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 9:45am

Cycling News podcast (Daniel Benson and Ed Pickering), recorded yesterday, reckon this is a breakaway day - one of those with half the peloton up the road! I'd settle for that tbh!

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 9:48am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Cycling News podcast (Daniel Benson and Ed Pickering), recorded yesterday, reckon this is a breakaway day - one of those with half the peloton up the road! I'd settle for that tbh!

Minus Sagan ofc!

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 9:54am

Inquitus wrote: »

Minus Sagan ofc!

Sam in it too fwiw.

Richard Hillman · 18-09-2020 10:00am

If my maths are correct. If Bennett comes second to Sagan on the intermediate and Wins the stage, even with Sagan as second, he is as good as unassailable.

That's assuming that neither get Time Trial Points.

MPFGLB · 18-09-2020 10:34am

Today will be a mega stage in so many ways

Everyone and their mother will be in the break and every sprint team (not there ) will be chasing

Brora and DQS will be in the battle ...watch the marking

Maybe this stage might have an impact of GC ...alot of tired legs out there

Tim76 · 18-09-2020 10:39am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

That's assuming that neither get Time Trial Points.

There's time trial points?

Mefistofelino · 18-09-2020 10:52am

Tim76 wrote: »

There's time trial points?

Yes (unless they've changed from last years system) - same points as the intermediate sprints, 20 for the win down to 1 point for 15th

obriendj · 18-09-2020 10:54am

Question about the last stage.

I thought that once you were in the yellow jersey going into the last day, it would be unchallenged, and that the last stage was more of neutralized race. Granted someone wants to win the stage but attacking was frowned upon

Is this wrong? and if not, is it the same for the Green jersey?

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 10:54am

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Yes (unless they've changed from last years system) - same points as the intermediate sprints, 20 for the win down to 1 point for 15th

Can't see Sam or Sagan troubling the scorers on an ITT which ends on La Planche de Belles Filles lol!

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 10:54am

obriendj wrote: »

Question about the last stage.

I thought that once you were in the yellow jersey going into the last day, it would be unchallenged, and that the last stage was more of neutralized race. Granted someone wants to win the stage but attacking was frowned upon

Is this wrong? and if not, is it the same for the Green jersey?

It's wrong the only thing contested is the sprint at the end.

REBELSAFC · 18-09-2020 11:10am

Inquitus wrote: »

It's wrong the only thing contested is the sprint at the end.

And it is probably the most prestigious stage for any sprinter to win in all the GTs

mcgratheoin · 18-09-2020 11:12am

Inquitus wrote: »

It's wrong the only thing contested is the sprint at the end.

And the intermediate sprint.

The Green jersey has significant points available in Paris, none of the other classifications have the potential for significant change (you're not going to pull much time out over a 120k flat stage).

It's considered bad form to attack for GC but having said that, it's been a long time since there has been a small enough gap towards the top of the GC where it could potentially be overhauled.

Attacking to win the stage from a breakaway is perfectly fine and a regular occurrence.

JazzyJ · 18-09-2020 11:14am

I'm giddy for today's stage. :pac::pac::pac:

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 11:15am

obriendj wrote: »

Is this wrong? and if not, is it the same for the Green jersey?

It's changed hands a few times on the final stage.

Also, a couple of years ago in Vuelta, Valverde won that points jersey from Rodriguez by taking an intermediate sprint in the Madrid stage.

Dodge · 18-09-2020 11:17am

I think if some one had a lead of 2-3 seconds in GC, we’d see attacks in Paris. I don’t think people see it as ‘bad form’ as much as they know it’s futile on a short flat stage to think they can make up a chunk of time

Anyway, all aboard the DQT train today...

mcgratheoin · 18-09-2020 11:18am

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Yes (unless they've changed from last years system) - same points as the intermediate sprints, 20 for the win down to 1 point for 15th

Type 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th 13th 14th 15th
Flat 50 30 20 18 16 14 12 10 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
Hilly Finish/Medium Mountain 30 25 22 19 17 15 13 11 9 7 6 5 4 3 2
High mountain 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Individual Time Trial 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Intermediate Sprint 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 11:19am

mcgratheoin wrote: »

It's considered bad form to attack for GC but having said that, it's been a long time since there has been a small enough gap towards the top of the GC where it could potentially be overhauled.

Even that's a recent thing. Roche did a deal in 87 with Jean Paul Van Poppel that he wouldn't contest the sprint (Roche was second in the Green jersey), if Van Poppels team helped control the race/ GC.

mcgratheoin · 18-09-2020 11:20am

Dodge wrote: »

I think if some one had a lead of 2-3 seconds in GC, we’d see attacks in Paris. I don’t think people see it as ‘bad form’ as much as they know it’s futile on a short flat stage to think they can make up a chunk of time

True - Hasn't happened yet but it would have been interesting if Lemond/Fignon had finished in Paris in 1989 instead of with a final stage ITT. 8 seconds might have been enough for an attempt.

REBELSAFC · 18-09-2020 11:32am

mcgratheoin wrote: »

True - Hasn't happened yet but it would have been interesting if Lemond/Fignon had finished in Paris in 1989 instead of with a final stage ITT. 8 seconds might have been enough for an attempt.

LeMond was 50secs down at the start of that stage though.That wouldn't have been recuperated over a flat stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLzpYRQvJe8

mcgratheoin · 18-09-2020 11:39am

REBELSAFC wrote: »

LeMond was 50secs down at the start of that stage though.That wouldn't have been recuperated over a flat stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLzpYRQvJe8

I assume that in a modern tour the ITT would have been followed by an additional stage to Paris though.

Gallant_JJ · 18-09-2020 11:52am

I think the 2017 Giro that Tom Domoulin won finished with an ITT

no_4 · 18-09-2020 11:59am

Bora will go balls out for the win today , their only card to play really, Sam and dqs need to mark them tightly , sprint is 112 km in Today whereas yesterday was only 14 km in

Mefistofelino · 18-09-2020 12:06pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

Even that's a recent thing. Roche did a deal in 87 with Jean Paul Van Poppel that he wouldn't contest the sprint (Roche was second in the Green jersey), if Van Poppels team helped control the race/ GC.

Kelly lost the green jersey to Frank Hoste in the final sprint in the '84 Tour

JMcL · 18-09-2020 12:07pm

REBELSAFC wrote: »

LeMond was 50secs down at the start of that stage though.That wouldn't have been recuperated over a flat stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLzpYRQvJe8

I think the aero bars made the difference - nobody else was using them. That was a nail biter - I remember well watching it live. Was disgraceful the reaction of some elements of the crowd in booing Fignon though

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 12:07pm

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Kelly lost the green jersey to Frank Hoste in the final sprint in the '84 Tour

I was going to say Kelly had, but thought I'd made it up!

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 12:08pm

JMcL wrote: »

I think the aero bars made the difference - nobody else was using them. That was a nail biter - I remember well watching it live. Was disgraceful the reaction of some elements of the crowd in booing Fignon though

Booing Lemond surely?

dastardly00 · 18-09-2020 12:10pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Booing Lemond surely?

It wouldn't be atypical for the French fans to boo their own compatriot!
(I don't know who was being booed)

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 12:14pm

JMcL wrote: »

I think the aero bars made the difference - nobody else was using them.

Gained with the bars, lost time with the helmet I think I heard him say since.

He put more into Fignon at the Giro. Actually that's where Fignon is really done a disservice imo - not just 8 seconds from that Tour, 8 seconds from Giro - Tour double.

Inquitus · 18-09-2020 12:19pm

JMcL wrote: »

I think the aero bars made the difference - nobody else was using them. That was a nail biter - I remember well watching it live. Was disgraceful the reaction of some elements of the crowd in booing Fignon though

Aye it was highly controversial using them at the time.

cunavalos · 18-09-2020 12:21pm

Some interesting tables for the tour so far,
Individual Rider Prizemoney
Pos Rider Prizemoney(€)
1 Pogačar Tadej 41350
2 Roglič Primož 36720
3 Bennett Sam 34100
4 Hirschi Marc 33290
5 Ewan Caleb 28970
6 van Aert Wout 28200
7 Alaphilippe Julian 22020
8 López Miguel Ángel 21590
9 Kämna Lennard 18550
10 Carapaz Richard 18430
11 Peters Nans 14950
12 Sagan Peter 14840
13 Kragh Andersen Søren 14470
14 Kristoff Alexander 13510
15 Lutsenko Alexey 12680
16 Kwiatkowski Michał 12630
17 Martínez Daniel Felipe 12400
18 Trentin Matteo 11720
19 Rolland Pierre 11420
20 Bol Cees 11000

Total Team Prizemoney
Considering Arkea have already picked up €600 in team fines there wont be much left for an afterparty there.Movistar's obsession with the team classification does not translate to a lot of daily prizemoney (But is worth €50,000 to the the overall team classification winner)
Pos Team Prizemoney(€)
1 Team Jumbo-Visma 82300
2 Team Sunweb 71030
3 Deceuninck - Quick Step 57660
4 UAE-Team Emirates 56010
5 BORA - hansgrohe 44970
6 Trek - Segafredo 44850
7 Astana Pro Team 43180
8 INEOS Grenadiers 40170
9 AG2R La Mondiale 35120
10 Lotto Soudal 29470
11 EF Pro Cycling 29150
12 CCC Team 27110
13 Mitchelton-Scott 25800
14 B&B Hotels - Vital Concept p/b KTM 24680
15 Cofidis, Solutions Crédits 24510
16 Groupama - FDJ 18180
17 NTT Pro Cycling 14250
18 Movistar Team 13600
19 Israel Start-Up Nation 13510
20 Team Total Direct Energie 12480
21 Bahrain - McLaren 10520
22 Team Arkéa Samsic 6600

mcgratheoin · 18-09-2020 12:26pm

Mark Renshaw tipping Wout for the stage win today followed by Sagan and Trentin - obviously doesn't think Sam can hang on or will have anything in the legs if he does.

Dodge · 18-09-2020 12:28pm

I seem to remember that prize money is split evenly throughout the team. So Bennett and Markov get the same. Roglic and Kuss get the same etc

That’s definitely the way it used to be and I assume it still is

The leaders are compensated by getting the big salaries

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 12:34pm

Dodge wrote: »

I seem to remember that prize money is split evenly throughout the team. So Bennett and Markov get the same. Roglic and Kuss get the same etc

That’s definitely the way it used to be and I assume it still is

The leaders are compensated by getting the big salaries

The GC winner normally takes no prize money and splits it between the team.

I think it was on the Cycling Tips podcast this week, they were discussing how TJV would be able to afford to keep all the team together, as well as keep them all happy. They mentioned the money the GC winner normally gets for the Japanese Crits, in the context of Rog missing out. €100,000's just for those two crits, never mind the ones in Europe. In a normal year...

Tim76 · 18-09-2020 12:35pm

cunavalos wrote: »

1 Team Jumbo-Visma 82300
2 Team Sunweb 71030
3 Deceuninck - Quick Step 57660
4 UAE-Team Emirates 56010
5 BORA - hansgrohe 44970
6 Trek - Segafredo 44850
7 Astana Pro Team 43180
8 INEOS Grenadiers 40170
9 AG2R La Mondiale 35120
10 Lotto Soudal 29470
11 EF Pro Cycling 29150
12 CCC Team 27110
13 Mitchelton-Scott 25800
14 B&B Hotels - Vital Concept p/b KTM 24680
15 Cofidis, Solutions Crédits 24510
16 Groupama - FDJ 18180
17 NTT Pro Cycling 14250
18 Movistar Team 13600
19 Israel Start-Up Nation 13510
20 Team Total Direct Energie 12480
21 Bahrain - McLaren 10520
22 Team Arkéa Samsic 6600
[/TABLE]

6 grand for Arkea Samsic, it wouldn't even pay for one of the bikes.

Tim76 · 18-09-2020 12:44pm

And they're off!

mhiggy09 · 18-09-2020 12:55pm

Anyone know what the red thing on DQT riders helmets are? Don't think it's the GPS transceiver as they still have that on their bikes.

lennymc · 18-09-2020 1:01pm

The TGV. LOL. That's some nickname...

Tim76 · 18-09-2020 1:03pm

One of the Bora boys stung in the mouth by a bee

Dodge · 18-09-2020 1:10pm

Bora already on the front of the peloton. That’s very early...

Junior · 18-09-2020 1:10pm

Posti abandons.

neris · 18-09-2020 1:11pm

mhiggy09 wrote: »

Anyone know what the red thing on DQT riders helmets are? Don't think it's the GPS transceiver as they still have that on their bikes.

some sort of a tracker. its made by specialised for DQS & Bora who wear their helmets. Heard Sam on a podcast saying theyre given to all the riders for training so if theres an accident they can be found. Sam got his 1st one not realising what it was and tore it off the helmet only to get an earful from someone

Macy0161 · 18-09-2020 1:15pm

lennymc wrote: »

The TGV. LOL. That's some nickname...

He really should sign for Jumbo. The TGV from TJV...

He may as well sit out front on his own than be sat out front of the peloton. Also gets Bora working early.

18-09-2020 1:15pm

Junior wrote: »

Posti abandons.

Bee sting in the mouth. Ouch!!!!

Sam and DQS v Bora, battle for the Green, Stage 19

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