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Irish Parachute Club crash

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2

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    #32
    Kuva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Kuva


    https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-kris-Billy-families


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    #33
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Kuva wrote: »
    https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-kris-Billy-families

    Done. Thanks.


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    #34
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,813 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

    It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves


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    #35
    PCX
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    Quazzie wrote: »
    Is there any way to know if that money makes it to the families? Does anyone know the person who set it up? Is there tractability on GoFundMe pages?

    It's this guys first GoFundMe page so it literally could be anyone out to make some money for themselves

    I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.


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    #36
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,813 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    PCX wrote: »
    I have no idea about the traceability of GoFundMe etc. but I do know that the guy who set this page up is definitely an IPC member and regular jumper and knew those involved.

    That's enough for me so. I'll make my donation now. Thanks


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    #37
    EchoIndia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,805 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Final report on this accident now published. www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/files/report-attachments/G-KNYS%20Final%20Report.pdf

    Synopsis:


    The Cessna 208B aircraft took off from Runway 27 at Clonbullogue Airfield
    (EICL), Co. Offaly at approximately 13.14 hrs. On board were the Pilot and a
    Passenger (a child), who were seated in the cockpit, and 16 skydivers, who
    occupied the main cabin. The skydivers jumped from the aircraft, as planned,
    when the aircraft was overhead EICL at an altitude of approximately 13,000
    feet. When the aircraft was returning to the airfield, the Pilot advised by
    radio that he was on ‘left base’ (the flight leg which precedes the
    approach leg and which is normally approximately perpendicular to the
    extended centreline of the runway). No further radio transmissions were
    received. A short while later, it was established that the aircraft had
    impacted nose-down into a forested peat bog at Ballaghassan, Co. Offaly,
    approximately 2.5 nautical miles (4.6 kilometres) to the north-west of EICL.
    The aircraft was destroyed. There was no fire. The Pilot and Passenger were
    fatally injured.

    The Investigation determined that the probable cause of the accident was a
    loss of control in a steeply banked left-hand turn, leading to a rapid loss
    of altitude. Four Safety Recommendations are made as a result of this
    Investigation.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I’ve yet to hear anything that speaks well of that club, and indeed some other areas of hobby-focussed aviation. There’s far too much poor airmanship in practice and responsible participants need to stand up firmly against it. No good hand-wringing when totally needless death happens. It’s too late then. I’ve known rigorously good hobby aviators to abandon it because of this type of scenario pervading the scene and I’m not afraid to speak out about it.


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    #39
    faoiarvok
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭faoiarvok


    Reading former Air Corps pilot Declan Daly’s Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Kindle at the moment, and aside from being generally very frank and interesting, he has an account of getting tasked to this crash.

    Worth a look if you’re so inclined:
    Medevac: Flying the Irish Air Corps HEMS Mission on Amazon


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    #40
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    The parents of the boy killed in the crash at Clonbullogue have started legal action against the Irish Parachute Club and the aircraft owner/operator

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/parents-of-boy-killed-in-2018-air-crash-sue-for-psychiatric-shock-and-loss-1.4378028


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    #41
    sailing
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭sailing


    It’s no different to a car accident where a death has occurred really. It will probably result in a settlement of some sort from the insurance company. The Published crash report makes very for very grim reading.


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    #42
    PCX
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/parents-of-boy-killed-in-2018-air-crash-sue-for-psychiatric-shock-and-loss-1.4378028


    They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

    Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?


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    #43
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    PCX wrote: »

    They are grieving parents who lost their only child FFS....

    Did you read the report?? What would you do... Chalk it up to experience and get a dog?


    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?


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    #44
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    That's a bit rough StackSteevens.

    Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate. :(


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Please goodness this will give the parents a focus, where their pain can be publicly acknowledged, as well as maybe furthering safety. It can only be horrendous for them, anybody's worst nightmare come true for them.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Chasing the family of the deceased pilot for compo. is "a bit rough" too, mate. :(

    They would have been insured, and anything that censures bad flying practices in hobby/sport aviation is desirable. Very difficult for the pilot's family of course too, that has to be acknowledged. There are no winners. When it starts to affect insurance cover, then maybe safety measures may be enhanced. If it has that effect it would be a very good thing. The parents too may not have been able to work properly or function since the event.


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    #47
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    The poor familys of both deceased. Im from close to edenderry and my son was the same age.


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    #48
    PCX
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭PCX


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    I can't imagine what I would do if I was in the position of Kasper's parents and I hope I am never in a position to find out.

    I do think it is absolutely disgusting to throw slurs at them at them given what they are going through.

    I understand some people aren't wired to experience empathy but you should at least try.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    If it enforces good practices and helps prevent future tragedies, the thought of that alone would bring some solace. If it exposes bad practices in hobby aviation in this country it will serve well.


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    #50
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?


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    #51
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Does any of the responsibility rest with the parents, especially when they were regulars to the drop zone?

    This is what the courts are there to do. They will work out who is at fault and to what degree they are at fault

    I appreciate that people don't like compo culture but Jesus, surely this kind of situation is the whole point of having insurance in the first place.


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    #52
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Do you think that the pilot had personal insurance for such a situation?


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    #53
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    The pilot, only he is in charge of the plane and it’s passengers . None qualified or Non licenced persons would be aware of any such regulation.


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    #54
    mr.anonymous
    Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    ted1 wrote: »
    The pilot, only he is in charge of the plane and it’s passengers . None qualified or Non licenced persons would be aware of any such regulation.

    The parachute club as an organisation is as well.

    Can't recall exact details but I believe their approval process for the pilot wasn't followed.


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    #55
    sailing
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭sailing


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    So for you, parental grief can be assuaged by large amounts of cash? What a shockingly mercenary outlook on life you must have. I pity you.

    Who do you reckon allowed the child to get into the plane, contrary to EU regulations? Should they be sued too?

    The deceased pilot was responsible for not allowing the child onboard if there was an issue over regulations. The buck stops there. It comes with the legal responsibility of exercising the privileges of one’s licence.

    The air accident investigation is not allowed to apportion blame in it’s report. As a 15,000+ hour pilot however, it’s very clear from the reading of the report that it was a completely avoidable accident.

    Part of the court process will, as someone said above, allow the parents to get some closure. It will investigate and determine responsibility, which is something the air accident report hasn’t/can’t report on.

    Any large amounts of cash as you put it will be proportional to blame and that will be played out in an independent setting.


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    #56
    nuckeythompson
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭nuckeythompson


    Im struggling to understand why the parents are suing the pilots family when they permitted their child on to the aircraft. There is a obvious danger so surely they must be held somewhat responsible?

    Am I missing something?


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Do you think that the pilot had personal insurance for such a situation?

    His company/company he worked for would have..... hopefully.


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    #58
    Muppet Man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭Muppet Man


    Havent seen it mentioned anywhere, but does anyone know if the deceased boys father was part of the 16 that parachuted that day?

    I hope the parents get all they are entitled to.


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    #59
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Reported here that he had just jumped out of the plane: https://www.thesun.ie/news/2573955/young-boy-who-died-in-offaly-plane-crash-loved-to-see-skydiving-dad-in-action-as-victims-named-and-investigations-continue-at-edenderry-scene/


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    #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When I once sat in the right seat up from of a Caravan seaplane and got chatting to the guy beside me flying it he told me it is very easy to fly, with predictable handling, and could be described as a big C172. It should not be the type of aircraft to catch you out easily.

    "AOPA Pilot magazine called the Caravan I "easy and pleasant" to handle. It can go 186 knots at 10,000 feet for a distance of almost 1,000 nautical miles with a 45-minute reserve. The sea-level rate of climb can be as high as 1,446 fpm. The stall speed varies from 55 to 64 knots and is described as the typical docile Cessna stall. Flare and touchdowns were reported to be "gentle and controlled." Maximum useful load is 3,627 pounds. Reverse thrust is available for slowing but is not recommended for backing the aircraft. Little right rudder is needed on takeoff, thanks to the engine being canted slightly downward and to the right to minimize torque and p-factor."


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    #61
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    Sounds like the sort of bravado that a GA pilot who thinks they know everything would say. A piston engined 172 and a turbine powered caravan are in different leagues. Think ATR pilot transitioning to A320.


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