Sat Dec 8, 2018

posturingpat · 10-12-2018 11:15am

akelly02 wrote: »

if you cant understand that a horse who won his first betfair chase one week, beating beef or salmon by about 20 lengths, then the next week drops down to two miles and beats the champion chaser voy pour ustedes on the bridle in the tingle creek, isnt a superstar, then you need help

Has to be taking the piss. Theres having an Opinion and then plain old ridiculous. Definitely a piss take.

Auroras_encore · 10-12-2018 1:03pm

Conas wrote: »

Kauto star was probaly one of the most overrated horses of all time.

Remember he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham Festival. He didn't have to beat much in 2007, and Denman was not 100% fit at the 2009 festival. I still can't understand the Kauto Star hype.
Best Mate won three in a row and was a flawless jumper, can't say the same about Kauto Star.

Altior has a similar running style to that of Denman. A real tank of a horse, with great power and speed. Altior is probaly one of the best finishers I've ever seen. Unreal speed going up a hill.

jesus christ you'd really wonder how someone could function with so little brain cells

kiers47 · 10-12-2018 1:17pm

In the history of Timeform only 3 horses rated higher than Kauto Star.
Pure hype job sher!!! :pac:

Slattsy · 10-12-2018 3:14pm

Auroras_encore wrote: »

jesus christ you'd really wonder how someone could function with so little brain cells

Says yer man :pac:

Joke. Kinda.

Conas · 10-12-2018 6:31pm

The fact remains he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham festival. Hardly a phenomenal horse based on that alone. I can see why people react sensitively to any sort of criticism of Kauto Star. He done the punters a favour in 2009 during the financial crisis, but come on, was he really a better horse than Sprinter Sacre? He was a very good horse; but I'm not sure whether he should be regarded as one of the greats. Chelteham is where it matters, and his win ratio is poor for what people on here consider a 'phenomenal' horse.

The Mig · 10-12-2018 7:33pm

Cheltenham isn’t the be all and end all for jumps racing. And them 2 races he ‘only’ won were 2 gold cups when you would expect the best to turn up cherry ripe ready to run.

posturingpat · 10-12-2018 8:53pm

Conas wrote: »

The fact remains he only won 2 of his 7 starts at the Cheltenham festival. Hardly a phenomenal horse based on that alone. I can see why people react sensitively to any sort of criticism of Kauto Star. He done the punters a favour in 2009 during the financial crisis, but come on, was he really a better horse than Sprinter Sacre? He was a very good horse; but I'm not sure whether he should be regarded as one of the greats. Chelteham is where it matters, and his win ratio is poor for what people on here consider a 'phenomenal' horse.

6/10 Must try harder;)

Conas · 10-12-2018 9:28pm

The Mig wrote: »

Cheltenham isn’t the be all and end all for jumps racing. And them 2 races he ‘only’ won were 2 gold cups when you would expect the best to turn up cherry ripe ready to run.

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.
Cheltenham is the be all and end all, as it's the All-Ireland final of national hunt racing.
Kauto Star was unquestionably a good horse; but not the 'phenomenal' or 'best since Arkle' kinda tags that have since been attributed to him.

Had he won three in a row Gold Cups, and the Queen Mother Chase in 2006, then yes he'd be regarded as one of the greats. The record will always say he lost 5 All Ireland finals, and won only two.

Some may say 2 out of 7 aint bad. I'm of a totally different opinion I'm afraid.

paddy no 11 · 10-12-2018 10:05pm

Conas wrote: »

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.

Yeah thanks for pointing that out, kauto star achieved this supreme test not once......but twice!!!!

slimshady007 · 10-12-2018 10:45pm

Conas wrote: »

Yes, but Best Mate won three in a row Gold Cups.

Cheltenham is the biggest meeting of the NH season. A lot of horses can be excellent in the King George, but flop come to Cheltenham. Cue Card, Mite Bite, Silviniaco Conti are recent examples.
Having to come up the Cheltenham hill at the end of a Gold Cup is the supreme test for any horse.
Cheltenham is the be all and end all, as it's the All-Ireland final of national hunt racing.
Kauto Star was unquestionably a good horse; but not the 'phenomenal' or 'best since Arkle' kinda tags that have since been attributed to him.

Had he won three in a row Gold Cups, and the Queen Mother Chase in 2006, then yes he'd be regarded as one of the greats. The record will always say he lost 5 All Ireland finals, and won only two.

Some may say 2 out of 7 aint bad. I'm of a totally different opinion I'm afraid.

Well you're safely in a minority of one there. You keep saying he only won 2/7 times he's run at Cheltenham but they were all Grade 1 races - I can't think of any horse that got close to achieving that consistently high level over such a long period. 6 Gold Cups he contested - how many horses have never reached the same heights after running in one Gold Cup never mind 6. As for some of the horses that "flopped" at Cheltenham, Cue Card has ran and won multiple graded races there, Might Bite has won a RSA and finished 2nd in a Gold Cup. Can only assume you're a WUM and I'm fully feeding into it but jaysus you have posted some absolute dung here over the past couple of days.

The Mig · 10-12-2018 10:48pm

I actually can’t believe what I’m reading :pac:

Fanny Wank · 10-12-2018 11:08pm

Kauto won 2 gold cups, becoming the first horse to regain it

He won 5 King Georges with the 2009 win surely one of the most majestic performances of the last 30 years

He won 4 Betfair chases

In addition he won two Tingle Creeks over a 2m trip (as someone else pointed out the 2nd of which was two weeks after winning a Betfair Chase)

Tbh it's a game of opinions but FFS anyone who doesn't think Kauto is anything but an all time great horse isn't really worth me wasting my time debating with

BumperD · 11-12-2018 12:00am

The Mig wrote: »

I actually can’t believe what I’m reading :pac:

It’s a troll

Conas · 11-12-2018 7:11pm

BumperD wrote: »

It’s a troll

I'm not a troll. Just someone who has an alternative opinion which I'm entitled to!

Motivator · 11-12-2018 8:51pm

Conas wrote: »

I'm not a troll. Just someone who has an alternative opinion which I'm entitled to!

If you can’t face up to the fact that Kauto Star is one of the greatest chasers of all time then I feel sorry for you. He was the best horse I’ve ever seen and possibly ever will see. For me, he was the most electrifying horse to watch and he made people look forward to racing.

If you’re not on a wind up, I feel sorry for your pals. You must be some craic in the pub.

Mostly Harmless · 11-12-2018 9:27pm

Even I know Kauto was a legend and I watch about three jumps races a year ffs, also worth remembering that Kauto did it all after Ruby nearly ended his career by remounting after a fall as a novice

BumperD · 12-12-2018 2:17am

Conas wrote: »

I'm not a troll. Just someone who has an alternative opinion which I'm entitled to!

Opinions are one thing. I’m all for alternative opinions. Makes the world go around. Faced with facts and still holding a clearly contrarian viewpoint that is leaking like a waterfall suggests you’re a troll.

droidman123 · 12-12-2018 11:16am

Arkle was an overrated donkey

Laird · 12-12-2018 2:33pm

LOL, Arkle was some sight gliding over his fences with 12-7 on his back.

Conas · 12-12-2018 11:38pm

BumperD wrote: »

Opinions are one thing. I’m all for alternative opinions. Makes the world go around. Faced with facts and still holding a clearly contrarian viewpoint that is leaking like a waterfall suggests you’re a troll.

My fact was that that at Cheltenham he only one two out seven times appearing there. Yes he's regarded as one of the greats, but at the main meeting of the NH season his win ratio was pretty atrocious despite being one of the all time greats. Two out of seven appearances means he grossly underachieved at Cheltenham. His jumping was nowhere near as good and consistent as Best Mates flawless jumping in his three in a row. Facts don't like; Best Mate won three in a row. Kauto Star only won two having had six cracks at the Gold Cup.

I'm sorry but these facts don't lie. Best Mate won more, hence he's a better horse.

redzerdrog · 12-12-2018 11:41pm

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Even I know Kauto was a legend and I watch about three jumps races a year ffs, also worth remembering that Kauto did it all after Ruby nearly ended his career by remounting after a fall as a novice

How exactly did he nearly end his career?

Mostly Harmless · 12-12-2018 11:52pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

How exactly did he nearly end his career?

In my original post "remounted after a fall", was in some egg and spoon novice chase, nearly got him back up to win but horse had injury from fall and could potentially have finished him - think was out for season after that

EDIT: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing-leg-fracture-heightens-kauto-star-controversy-5385312.html
" the five- year-old, who crashed to the ground two fences from home, was remounted and failed by a short-head to catch the winner Mistral de la Cour, fractured a hind-leg"
Daft thing to do when you're on the favorite for the Arkle in a largely insignificant race.

redzerdrog · 12-12-2018 11:57pm

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

In my original post "remounted after a fall", was in some egg and spoon novice chase, nearly got him back up to win but horse had injury from fall and could potentially have finished him - think was out for season after that

EDIT: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing-leg-fracture-heightens-kauto-star-controversy-5385312.html
" the five- year-old, who crashed to the ground two fences from home, was remounted and failed by a short-head to catch the winner Mistral de la Cour, fractured a hind-leg"
Daft thing to do when you're on the favorite for the Arkle in a largely insignificant race.

I remember watching the race live just hadn't remembered the subsequent injury

Auroras_encore · 13-12-2018 12:11am

Conas wrote: »

My fact was that that at Cheltenham he only one two out seven times appearing there. Yes he's regarded as one of the greats, but at the main meeting of the NH season his win ratio was pretty atrocious despite being one of the all time greats. Two out of seven appearances means he grossly underachieved at Cheltenham. His jumping was nowhere near as good and consistent as Best Mates flawless jumping in his three in a row. Facts don't like; Best Mate won three in a row. Kauto Star only won two having had six cracks at the Gold Cup.

I'm sorry but these facts don't lie. Best Mate won more, hence he's a better horse.

he actually think best mate was better

:D:D:D

Conas · 13-12-2018 12:40am

Auroras_encore wrote: »

he actually think best mate was better :D:D:D

He won more; he won three in a row;

BumperD · 13-12-2018 2:07am

Good to zero in on one attribute. Died aged 10. Must be inferior.

famagusta · 13-12-2018 10:13am

Conas wrote:

He won more; he won three in a row;

Lol, so your basically ranking horses on the number of gold cups they have won.

Imperial commander and Norton's coin are obviously as good as Denman so...

Altior, sprinter, Moscow, all heaps of ****??

akelly02 · 13-12-2018 11:35am

famagusta wrote: »

Lol, so your basically ranking horses on the number of gold cups they have won.

Imperial commander and Norton's coin are obviously as good as Denman so...

Altior, sprinter, Moscow, all heaps of ****??

nicely done fella

i reckon anyone with a hatred for the any of the greats like Kauto Star must have backed him that day ruby re-mounted and just failed, and hated him ever since.

I was just thinking, he has actually beaten 3 gold cup winners himself along his travels, aswell as 2 champion chasers, multiple hennessy winners. really is quite extraordinary.

Practically unbeatable around kempton aswell

Conas · 13-12-2018 11:34pm

famagusta wrote: »

Lol, so your basically ranking horses on the number of gold cups they have won.

Imperial commander and Norton's coin are obviously as good as Denman so...

Altior, sprinter, Moscow, all heaps of ****??

Sprinter Sacre a better horse than Kauto. Altior will have to win another champion chase, and then a Gold Cup to be one of the greats. Moscow I think would have had to win a Gold Cup, but he was a excellent horse.

I love my horse racing a lot.

Mostly Harmless · 13-12-2018 11:38pm

Frankel never won a Derby, donkey

famagusta · 14-12-2018 12:02am

Conas wrote:

Sprinter Sacre a better horse than Kauto. Altior will have to win another champion chase, and then a Gold Cup to be one of the greats. Moscow I think would have had to win a Gold Cup, but he was a excellent horse.

For God sake, horses don't need to win a gold cup to be a great horse

mirwillbeback · 14-12-2018 12:57am

Frankel never won a gold cup

Conas · 14-12-2018 2:02am

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Frankel never won a gold cup

We are not talking about Frankel, we're talking about Moscow Flyer. Slightly overrated aswell, he never proved how good he could have been by winning a Gold Cup. Barry used to give him great rides, but in order to be one of the greats you have to win the Gold at least three times, anything less, and you're in a category below the 'greats'.

Arkle would never have been able to compete with the likes Denman, Kauto Star, and Hurricane Fly as the older horses of a different generation tend to be fawned over a little too much. Sure Arkle only ever had to beat Mill house, and he wouldn't have the speed and stamina to compete with modern horses, as diet and science have made modern horses run faster. Sure look at how jockey's rode in those days, laughable almost.

I seen Arkle in videos, nothing special. Sizing John would give him plenty to think about.

Fanny Wank · 14-12-2018 7:05am

Conas wrote: »

but in order to be one of the greats you have to win the Gold at least three times, anything less, and you're in a category below the 'greats'.

Ah right,you're just trying to troll. Got it

Probably should have quoted the entire post tbh

The Mig · 14-12-2018 10:13am

Conas wrote: »

I seen Arkle in videos, nothing special. Sizing John would give him plenty to think about.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

droidman123 · 14-12-2018 10:39am

The crappy pat taffe and the over rated arkle in action

https://youtu.be/7PDNPTJs4PU

Sat Dec 8, 2018

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