Advice for Carrauntoohil

Poncke · 08-10-2014 9:48am #1

Hi all, I am going to Kerry this weekend to conquer Carrauntoohil.

This is the route I will be walking

My gear is solid, I am more wondering about the route and what to look out for? Pitfalls?

I will have a map, but no compass nor GPS, as we will only be going if the weather is clear all the way. Not taking any risks.

Is the route to the top waymarked? Or are there any open fields we could get lost as on the summit of the Lug?

Any other things to look out for?

As always your input is appreciated.

Cheers

Poncke · 08-10-2014 10:22am

If I understand correctly I will be walking the Caher route

http://www.kerrymountainrescue.ie/routes/caher.html

BarryD · 08-10-2014 10:42am

You're going up the 'Hydro Road' - as far as I know there's a 'new' car park near the base of this. The Hydro Road has a good concrete surface mostly and you'll make good time up to the lake. From there you're on open hillside, I haven't been on that route in a few years but the slopes up to Caher is just a long climb, bits of paths here & there. From Caher on towards Carrauntoohil, it's a sharper ridge with better defined path.

No waymarking - no major need for GPS but my advice would be - do not venture on the high hills without a map and compass and basic ability to read the map and use the compass. How do you know cloud won't set in when you're on or near the tops? In this instance, it's easy enough to reach the top of Carrauntoohil (you just keep going uphill till you reach the cross) but can you reverse the initial part of the route back towards Caher??? A basic thing to do when approaching from the saddle between Caher and Carrauntoohil is to take a bearing on the summit cross (assuming no cloud). Then at least if mist comes in, you just reverse the bearing (add or subtract 180 degrees) and follow this back.

Anyways, take care and your enjoy visit to Carrauntoohil

Poncke · 08-10-2014 10:49am

Agree with your comment on the clouds. I do have a compass so I can take a bearing. I will bring the compass with me.

It is the hydro road, KMR calls it the Caher route.

Thanks Barry.

Pat Mustard · 08-10-2014 11:09am

Poncke wrote: »

Any other things to look out for?

From the Kerry Mountain Rescue page that you linked:

BEWARE! – The summit itself is surrounded by steep ground and extreme caution is required when commencing your descent, especially in poor visibility. Note that there are NO safe descent routes anywhere to the North, Northeast, East or Southeast of the summit. Always carry a map and a compass and have at least one competent navigator in your group (ie. capable of accurate navigation in all conditions, including white-out and darkness).

Initial descent bearings from the summit are as follows:
1) For the Devil’s Ladder, follow a magnetic bearing of 192° until you meet the track, then follow it as it trends SE to the top of the Devil’s Ladder.
2) For Brother O’Shea’s Gully (and on to the Beenkeeragh ridge and the continuation of the Coomloughra Horseshoe) follow a magnetic bearing of 230° for 50m before turning to 308° and descending steeply towards the top of the gully
3) For Caher follow an initial magnetic bearing of 230° for 50m. Next follow 195° for approximately 200m before following the rim of Coomloughra as it veers away to the right.

Visibility is often very poor on top of Corrán Tuathail (Carrauntoohil). If walkers don't know how to take a bearing, they can easily attempt to descend by an incorrect route and become trapped on steep ground.

Even if you have good visibility when you set off, it can become bad, especially as you gain altitude.

Poncke · 08-10-2014 11:32am

Better not go at all then as I am not an experienced navigator.

I always wonder how these families get to the top on runners and no gear whatsoever. More luck than wisdom I guess.

It is going to be partly cloudy on Saturday, so I might not get to the summit then.

Stuff to ponder on, thanks.

BarryD · 08-10-2014 11:45am

If you pick your day well and nothing goes wrong, you could go many places in the Irish hills in runners and a T shirt. Problem arises when the weather is more mixed and/or something goes wrong. A simple sprained ankle or twisted knee can be awkward to get out. 'Families' seen on the high hills with just 'runners and no gear' are just plain reckless. Probably more through ignorance than neglect, but reckless nonetheless.

Hillwalking is an adventure sport. There is an element of risk and challenge, it's not a high level of risk in Ireland compared to bigger mountains. So don't get put off too easily. Pick your days, go out with other people, take an interest in mapreading & navigation even when the weather is good, maybe do a training course, carry some spare clothes & food & torch & bivvy bag. Bring a charged phone but don't intend to use it. Head up but if in doubt, be prepared to turn back or cut your route short etc. Then you'll be grand

Clare in Exile · 08-10-2014 12:02pm

We climbed it back in August, we were lucky that the weather was good. None of us were what could be termed "experienced climbers", but one of our group had climbed it a few months previously. We ascended via the Devil's Ladder (challenging but if you have a decent level of fitness you'll be ok). That was probably the toughest part, after that it's a straightforward trek up to the top (will take around 20 minutes).

Near the top it became quite misty, and the temperature suddenly dropped. Unfortunately on the day itself we didn't have much of a view from the top due to the mist, but there was still a great sense of achievement once we reached the cross.

On the way down we decided to ignore the Devil's Ladder as it was quite steep - instead we chose the Zig Zag route. Once you keep your wits about you you should be fine.

As mentioned previously, ensure that you have the correct gear (good boots, trousers that are equipped for rain, tops that keep you warm, phone that is fully charged etc). Also, make sure you have water and some snacks to keep your energy levels up (I think that some people seem to think that once they have reached the top that's the hard part over, but of course you have to walk back as well, it took us around five-and-a-half to six hours in total from Cronin's Yard, to the peak, and back again - you will need some water and a sugar boost along the way).

I read that at the weekend a man had to be airlifted off the mountain due to severe cramp, he was unlucky I guess but it just goes to show that anything can happen when you're embarking on such a trek.

Enjoy if you decide to have a go at it...

Pat Mustard · 08-10-2014 12:27pm

Poncke wrote: »

Better not go at all then as I am not an experienced navigator.

Didn't mean to discourage you, just that you need to be prepared for the risks.

hmmm · 08-10-2014 1:13pm

It's a very straightforward route for the most part, you have the valley on your left as a handrail the whole way up. As mentioned, the only bit to really be careful about is to get your bearings right coming off of Carrauntoohill.

Poncke · 08-10-2014 1:44pm

Barry, I agree with your comment, thanks for that. I have proper gear, so that is no problem, and I am already looking into booking a MS1 training. The day is set though, its a weekend with my girl we planned as we are from Dublin. She has walked the Camino de Santiago (800km). I think my only worry is navigation when we end up in clouds.

Mustard, thank you, you didnt discourage me, your advice is good, I will definitely take it with me and make sure I get the bearings right.

Clare, thanks for sharing, I am well equipped and fairly fit. I am training for the Wicklow Way. But your story is comforting.

Hmmm, cheers, I will make sure I got my navigation right, a clear day will make it all so much easier

08-10-2014 2:01pm

To be honest, if the day dawned clear and sunny, and all the forecasts said it would be sunny, and it was the height of summer, I'd say it could be done without the absolute need for a compass...but just be prepared to turn back.

But at this time of the year, with shorter days, with weather changeable and often rain hovering around, it could be trouble. It takes a while to get from Caher across to Carrauntoohil, eat and get the photos and turn around, and by that stage the weather could change completely and the old "I'll keep an eye on/stay below the cloud level" would not apply. And I have been up there dozens of times and can tell you there are risks on the descent off that side in bad weather. Maybe not falling, once you stay away from the edges around Caher, but wandering completely off track. A common one is continuing straight on and going down Curraghmore and towards the Bridia, or as the route tends to gets less defined at the bottom of Caher wandering away off west towards Lough Acoose.

Poncke · 08-10-2014 2:48pm

I fully understand we need luck on our side weather-wise, and if there are clouds, I just wont continue and turn around. I have been caught once on the Lug, and I wont let that happen again.

Poncke · 13-10-2014 8:44am

Right, posting here means I am still alive and made it back.

It was a perfect day. Weather was great. We took the hydro track leading up Caher on the right leg of the horseshoe. Steep climb..... and we failed to reach the summit. Bummer. Our backpacks were too heavy for the climb. We prepared well, had loads of water, food and clothes. But in the end it we got knackered. We turned back, and it was a wise decision. Pushing for the summit of Caher and then Carrauntoohil would have put us in a lot of trouble as the way back would have been too much. We would also have run out of time. And when we returned we saw the weather had changed and the summit of Carrauntoohil started to get surrounded by clouds.

One thing was really cool. Going up we got lost from the track for a bit, reading the map got us back to the right path. So that was a good thing.

Anyway, good experience, lessons learned, and we will go back for another attempt in the spring.

Kerry is gorgeous and we enjoyed the weekend. Now we will train more and be successful next year. Thanks for all the advice.

BarryD · 14-10-2014 12:31pm

Good that you enjoyed the day, often better to cut a bit short rather than overdo it and make it a slog. Re backpacks, what sort of weight? Experience will inform you in due course but for a daywalk, you don't needs lots of gear. I'd carry lunch and a bit of spare food (choc bar etc), flask (1 pint) - most mountain streams with a good flow above habitations are fine to drink from. Well, they haven't killed me yet! Normal hillwalking clothes on you, fleece jacket and waterproofs, hat & gloves, spare jumper and maybe spare hat/ socks (socks make good spare gloves). Basic first aid kit, torch, whistle, map & compass, bivvy bag. After that camera & phone - that's about it.. If it's warm and/or you're walking uphill, your bag will be fuller with the jacket etc. Stop for lunch or when it's colder and you'll have little enough left in it.

Poncke · 14-10-2014 2:18pm

Hey Barry, I basically packed all the stuff you mentioned and ran up to 10k I think. It was just a bit much for such a hike. I am still training up and losing weight, so I just have to train more. I will get it right. Lost another 1.2 kilo, so thats what I call a result.

ScrubsfanChris · 17-03-2015 1:49am

Hope its ok I bump this thread just a little bit.
Is there a somewhere to park the car at the beginning of the Caher (Hydra) route? I've seen mentioned I this thread that there is a new car park, where is it exactly. All I see on google maps is a gate, is it there?

Thanks in advance

17-03-2015 5:12am

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Hope its ok I bump this thread just a little bit.
Is there a somewhere to park the car at the beginning of the Caher (Hydra) route? I've seen mentioned I this thread that there is a new car park, where is it exactly. All I see on google maps is a gate, is it there?

Thanks in advance

Yes, there is a public car park there at the bottom of the road, where it meets the public road.

ScrubsfanChris · 17-03-2015 1:03pm

Cheers Conor

The Black Oil · 28-06-2015 10:21am

Possibly heading up it some weekend in the neat future.

Charlie19 · 01-07-2015 1:25am

The Black Oil wrote: »

Possibly heading up it some weekend in the neat future.

Same as myself:)

Weather permitting I'd like to start from Cronins yard and head up between the two loughs and do the whole reek beginning with Cruach Morh (Big Stack) and finishing with Carrauntoohil, then come back down the Devils ladder.

The only thing I'm worried about is, would my dog be able to do the reeks? I've watched a few clips on youtube and it might be a bit much for him.

If the reeks are a no go, then I'll just do the Devils ladder route to Carrauntoohil.

hmmm · 01-07-2015 7:38am

Charlie19 wrote: »

The only thing I'm worried about is, would my dog be able to do the reeks? I've watched a few clips on youtube and it might be a bit much for him.

Unfortunately you will not be welcome with a dog in the Reeks.
http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/dogs-banned-from-carrauntoohil/

Charlie19 · 01-07-2015 2:13pm

hmmm wrote: »

Unfortunately you will not be welcome with a dog in the Reeks.
http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/dogs-banned-from-carrauntoohil/

Well that's disappointing.

01-07-2015 8:08pm

Charlie19 wrote: »

Same as myself:)

Weather permitting I'd like to start from Cronins yard and head up between the two loughs and do the whole reek beginning with Cruach Morh (Big Stack) and finishing with Carrauntoohil, then come back down the Devils ladder.

The only thing I'm worried about is, would my dog be able to do the reeks? I've watched a few clips on youtube and it might be a bit much for him.

If the reeks are a no go, then I'll just do the Devils ladder route to Carrauntoohil.

If you go up the Hags Glen on the track between the two main lakes you'll have gone past Cruach Mhor and most of the Eastern Reeks. Instead you just go left before the first bridge a few hundred yards from Cronins Yard and head straight for the obvious coom beneath Cruach Mhor (it's a slog, but you're getting the hard work done early) and then scramble the boulders leading to the summit. From there you cross the Big Gun Ridge, which can be pretty exposed if you stick to the ridge itself, but there is a lower path. And on across the rest of the Reeks which is fast going until you reach the top of the Devils Ladder and the start of the second slog up the side of Carrauntoohil itself.

No dogs allowed though.

RamblingRuairi · 02-07-2015 1:57pm

Conor74 is bang on - if you've gone between the 2 loughs you're almost at the base of the Devil's Ladder already and will have walked parallel to the entire eastern Reeks.

And as others have said, no dogs are allowed on the Reeks.

Just keep in mind that the Reeks Challenge (http://killarneypeakschallenge.com/) is on next weekend (Sat 11th) so Cronin's Yard could be packed from about 5am onwards. I suspect the entire area (Purple Mountain to Knockbrinnea) will be pretty busy

Charlie19 · 02-07-2015 7:22pm

Its a pity responsible dog owners get punished for a small minority. I was convinced that dogs were allowed because I noticed a "Dogs must be kept on a lead" sign, that was on a gate leading out of Cronnins yard. This was on a video I watched on youtube but the video must have been old.

I'll probably leave him a kennel for the few hours.

Thargor · 03-07-2015 2:28pm

Theres always dogs down there, ignore the jobsworths making up their own laws, what are they going to do, confiscate your dog? Shoot it? If the guards don't care you shouldn't care.

Alun · 03-07-2015 2:53pm

The Reeks, in common with many of the upland areas we walk on, are private property, mostly farmland, and as such it's the owners who get to say what is and isn't allowed on their own land, not any 'jobsworths'. And yes, if your dog is seen worrying sheep, then it may well indeed be shot.

Thargor · 03-07-2015 2:58pm

I meant on a lead, I know what happens if you let a dog run wild in fields.

duckysauce · 04-07-2015 2:48am

Thargor wrote: »

I meant on a lead, I know what happens if you let a dog run wild in fields.

even if your dog is on a lead it can cause sheep distress and if they run when preggers it's game over . I gave up trying to walk my dog on a lead when there are sheep around it wasn't fair to either animal -- and totally selfish on my part . Now do not bring my dog anywhere near sheep lead or not , not worth the stress for either animal-- my Dog wanting to have a go at the sheep , and the poor sheep ****ting itself

04-07-2015 10:38pm

Thargor wrote: »

Theres always dogs down there, ignore the jobsworths making up their own laws, what are they going to do, confiscate your dog? Shoot it? If the guards don't care you shouldn't care.

By jobsworths you mean the people who own the land and have sheep there - because that's their livelihood - and whose permission is needed to access the land?

I doubt they'd shoot the dog, though it wouldn't bother me if they did, and they should charge the owner for the bullet too. It would be entirely the dog owners fault for ignoring the terms on which the landowner allows access to his private property.

And no, since the rule about no dogs was brought in, there are far far fewer dogs there. To say "there are always dogs down there" is simply something you've made up.

Alun · 05-07-2015 2:47pm

duckysauce wrote: »

even if your dog is on a lead it can cause sheep distress and if they run when preggers it's game over.

True. Sheep can abort when they're pregnant and 'worried' by a dog, even one on a lead.

BarryD · 05-07-2015 3:44pm

Wouldn't want to encourage anyone to bring a dog where they're not wanted. But I kinda doubt if a sheep could be 'worried' by a dog on a lead. They might well move away, trot off to a safer distance but they're hardy enough animals and well able to deal with minor threats and the normal vicissitudes of life out on the hill or in the open. The dog owner would want to be pursuing the animal with the dog on the lead to cause any real concern to it. That'd be a different matter entirely.

We'd be surrounded by sheep here and I'd often enough walk our dog through our neighbour's fields, with their full knowledge. The ewes will flock when they see a potential threat and watch from a distance, then carry on grazing.

Alun · 05-07-2015 4:07pm

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't want to encourage anyone to bring a dog where they're not wanted. But I kinda doubt if a sheep could be 'worried' by a dog on a lead.

I'm only going on what I've been told by a couple of hill farmers over the years. As I understand it, if sheep have been involved in any kind of worrying incident from off-lead dogs, this makes them extra skittish and they can bolt away from any dog, on a lead or otherwise, even in the worst case the farmer's own sheepdogs.

Thargor · 05-07-2015 5:50pm

How close do people get to sheep on Carantouhill? Ive never even seen one on the Hydro route. Off on the horizon when you're up there maybe.

duckysauce · 05-07-2015 7:01pm

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't want to encourage anyone to bring a dog where they're not wanted. But I kinda doubt if a sheep could be 'worried' by a dog on a lead. They might well move away, trot off to a safer distance but they're hardy enough animals and well able to deal with minor threats and the normal vicissitudes of life out on the hill or in the open. The dog owner would want to be pursuing the animal with the dog on the lead to cause any real concern to it. That'd be a different matter entirely.

We'd be surrounded by sheep here and I'd often enough walk our dog through our neighbour's fields, with their full knowledge. The ewes will flock when they see a potential threat and watch from a distance, then carry on grazing.

depends on the dog , mine would go ape sh ite when she would see a sheep --constant barking and snarling which did spook the sheep.

BarryD · 05-07-2015 7:56pm

Thargor wrote: »

How close do people get to sheep on Carantouhill? Ive never even seen one on the Hydro route. Off on the horizon when you're up there maybe.

A dog can cover a lot of ground pretty quickly when it wants to. But it's all about perception - I'd dare say that most incidents of dog worrying sheep happen lower down, in fields and the like. It's easier for the hill farmer though to just have a blanket ban rather than arguing over the niceties.

Charlie19 · 05-07-2015 8:57pm

duckysauce wrote: »

depends on the dog , mine would go ape sh ite when she would see a sheep --constant barking and snarling which did spook the sheep.

Thats it really. My dog has no interest in other animals, not even dogs. He just loves people and wants to be around people.

When other dogs approach him, his tail goes down between his legs and hides behind me.

06-07-2015 11:26am

BarryD wrote: »

Wouldn't want to encourage anyone to bring a dog where they're not wanted. But I kinda doubt if a sheep could be 'worried' by a dog on a lead.

Sheep can abort, and can also tear themselves apart on barb wire trying to get away from dogs. They can't really tell from a bark that the dog is actually very gentle soul and is on a leash.

I see Cronin's Yard have put a note on Facebook today saying their "dogs not allowed" signs were cut down. As they say "not a good way to foster relations between farmers and walkers". Then again, I guess John Cronin, the third or fourth generation of a family that have provided help to walkers for generations and allowed access through their lands, and who himself has an impressive mountaineering record alongside Con Moriarty, might be one of Thargor's "jobsworths making up their own laws".

Thargor · 06-07-2015 11:55am

Very generous of him, such kindness from his lordship, letting Irish people see Irelands highest mountain, what a time to be alive :rolleyes:

Unique places like Carantouhill shouldn't be in private hands, the government should just compulsory purchase it and turn it into a proper national park, livestock + hills= environmental disaster, so they can stick their permission and rules up their asses imo.

Similarly I also refuse to pay at the gate of Powerscourt Waterfall and just ignore the guy if he sees me going in, Ireland's biggest waterfall and some planks can claim it belongs to them and charge to see it just because some ancestor paid tuppence and 2 shillings for it. Same for Lough Tay, Ive walked all around that many times and many other similar places aswell. I just tell them to call the guards if they have a problem, funnily enough they never seem to think its worth sending a squadcar out for, I go where I want, often with my well trained dog with me.

BarryD · 06-07-2015 12:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sheep can abort, and can also tear themselves apart on barb wire trying to get away from dogs. They can't really tell from a bark that the dog is actually very gentle soul and is on a leash.

Come on Conor, you can't seriously be suggesting that someone walking quietly through a field or hillside with a dog on a lead will cause harm to any ewe, pregnant or otherwise.

The problem lies with people who won't put their dogs on a lead, let them run and then can't control them when they do have a go. The easiest solution is just to ban all dogs.

But as a walker, I've done more in my time extricating sheep from difficulties - sometimes they get stuck on their backs, they get caught in a bog or heads trapped in sheep wire/ feeder etc.

Having a dog with you in a field of cattle (bullocks) though is not a good idea whether they are on a lead or not. They will charge over to investigate and there's serious weight involved.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 06-07-2015 12:41pm

If they're worried about keeping sheep safe, then keep them off a mountain

FrostyJack · 06-07-2015 12:50pm

Thargor wrote:

I go where I want, often with my well trained dog with me.

TiltedBrain wrote:

If they're worried about keeping sheep safe, then keep them off a mountain

Jesus wept. Sure it will be fine to walk through your garden anytime we want with whatever we want? Free world and all that........:rolleyes:

Thargor · 06-07-2015 12:53pm

If I had the tallest mountain in Ireland or some other national monument in my garden it wouldn't shock me to see people walking in it, no.

Mickeroo · 06-07-2015 12:55pm

By private property I'm guessing people mean commonage as opposed to it being owned by one person?

FrostyJack · 06-07-2015 12:58pm

Thargor wrote: »

If I had the tallest mountain in Ireland or some other national monument in my garden it wouldn't shock me to see people walking in it, no.

Tallest mountain, tallest waterfall, tallest mushroom, tallest garden shed... so as long it is the tallest thing it should be free and you can do what you like. You are welcome to walk up the highest mountain, many different routes, you just can't bring your dog. It's not rocket science. I wanted to bring my dog up it and I can't, so when I go up she will stay at home. One of my friends brought her dogs up all the time but the last time she was challenged by several different groups so she leaves them at home now.

Thargor · 06-07-2015 1:02pm

FrostyJack wrote: »

Tallest mountain, tallest waterfall, tallest mushroom, tallest garden shed... so as long it is the tallest thing it should be free and you can do what you like. You are welcome to walk up the highest mountain, many different routes, you just can't bring your dog. It's not rocket science. I wanted to bring my dog up it and I can't, so when I go up she will stay at home. One of my friends brought her dogs up all the time but the last time she was challenged by several different groups so she leaves them at home now.

Lol, read the rest of my sentence "or some other national monument", or any site of interest really. They can challenge all they like, some people just enjoy forcing their will on others, they get a little thrill out of it.

FrostyJack · 06-07-2015 1:12pm

Thargor wrote: »

Lol, read the rest of my sentence "or some other national monument", or any site of interest really. They can challenge all they like, some people just enjoy forcing their will on others, they get a little thrill out of it.

Presume you mean heritage sites as waterfalls and mountains aren't man made i.e. monuments.

Some "heritage" sites require payment as they provide up keep, facilities like toilets and parking etc, so I imagine this requires some money. Though I suppose if the world owes everything, just walk in where ever you want.

06-07-2015 1:18pm

Thargor wrote: »

Very generous of him, such kindness from his lordship, letting Irish people see Irelands highest mountain, what a time to be alive :rolleyes:

Unique places like Carantouhill shouldn't be in private hands, the government should just compulsory purchase it and turn it into a proper national park, livestock + hills= environmental disaster, so they can stick their permission and rules up their asses imo.

Yeah, property law sucks, tear up the Constitution and put your dog in charge of all decisions!

hmmm · 06-07-2015 1:28pm

Until such time as we get proper access laws in this country, we are dependent on the kindness of landowners to allow us access to most upland areas. It's stupid and selfish to ignore the wishes of those landowners who do give permission.

unkel · 06-07-2015 2:02pm

Thargor wrote: »

How close do people get to sheep on Carantouhill?

I don't know about the Reeks, but in Wicklow sheep can be absolutely anywhere and you can get to within a few meters of them before they move on. There were sheep at the summit of Mullaghcleevaun (second highest mountain in Wicklow) a few days ago

I agree with what others have said here. When we're entering private land we should abide by the few simple and reasonable requests from the owners of that land (like no dogs allowed)

Advice for Carrauntoohil

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