Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Leroy42 · 10-11-2017 11:48pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

all of the above would be seen as an attempt to circumvent MUP and outlawed.

But they would be selling the can for €2. Surely the legislation cannot then demand what the retailer does with the money?

I can understand that they cannot give discount beer (or whatever) but how about €20 for Bicardi but you get 2 free coke. The retailer simply uses the increase price charged for Bicardi to pay Coca-Cola for the free product.

How could they possibly legislate for that? Even if they tried to say you can't do it at the same transaction, simply have two transactions. One for the bicardi, then the FOC coke

ohnonotgmail · 10-11-2017 11:55pm

If shops do a buy X get Y free they are offering a discount on X. that cannot bring the price of X down below MUP. doing it in multiple transactions doesnt change that and i cant see how a shop could even program their tills to do that.

my poor tortured hands · 10-11-2017 11:57pm

They'll say the transactions are connected, and therefore are the same transaction.

But there are some benefits which can't be legislated for. Examples. The staff could be fit women in bikinis.

Or, when you want to purchase alcohol you might enter a screened off area which contains the sex kittens. Men, and women too of course, would value that additional service but it's impossible to put a value on in legislation.

Other examples would be original artwork on the walls, or original music over the speakers. Elton John could play a piano in the corner.

Leroy42 · 11-11-2017 12:07am

When the off licences notice a big fall off in trade do you think they are simply going to stand back and do nothing?

Easy to get around. Buy a six pack and enter a quiz. If you win then you get free snacks.

What day is it? You are a winner!

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 12:12am

The quiz idea is interesting but if the outcome is more or less certain I don't think it'd work. Lots of customrs might also get that question wrong!

But what if the outcome is truly random and variable?
So, for every 12 beers you buy, you spin a wheel and there's a genuine 1 in 10 chance of winning a 100 euro cash prize, and a 90% chance of nothing.
Is that different legally?

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2017 12:18am

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

The quiz idea is interesting but if the outcome is more or less certain I don't think it'd work. Lots of customrs might also get that question wrong!

But what if the outcome is truly random and variable?
So, for every 12 beers you buy, you spin a wheel and there's a genuine 1 in 10 chance of winning a 100 euro cash prize, and a 90% chance of nothing.
Is that different legally?

you need a licence for a lottery or game of chance.

Leroy42 · 11-11-2017 12:27am

Every club runs a lottery, can't be that hard to get one.

How can producers run competition's then? Collect 10 labels and get a watch.

What is the difference? I honestly can't see, unless they specifically put it in the legislation, how they can do anything about it.

Maybe not directly, but loyalty cards are well established. Use that. Can't give alcohol for free but there is no minimum pricing on other products.

It will be up to customers to demand that offys come up with something otherwise they will lose loads of business to beer runs to France etc

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 12:30am

All the off-licences will be much plusher than they are now, they'll be more like casinos or posh hotels. All the extra money will be spent on carpets and live performances to entice customers.

You'll be served by celebrities.

flas · 11-11-2017 12:34am

511 wrote: »

Distilling is illegal in Ireland.

It is,to sell it,but home brewing is not

Tin Foil Hat · 11-11-2017 12:48am

There's part of me hopes that, if MUP does come in, that supermarkets will use higher end stuff as their loss leaders, while still being above the minimum unit price. €15 bottle of wine for a tenner. Ten year old bottle of decent whiskey for €25.
Wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened.:D

flas · 11-11-2017 12:51am

Can see it turning out that off licences start getting the same kind of deals that most pubs get from suppliers,like buy 2 cases of Jameson get 4 free ginger ale,or 5 cases vodka get 10 free coke, and then them passing the promotion onto customer,unlike pubs,who get so much free **** in promotions and hardly ever if ever pass it on to the customer!
Or on another case whats to stop the off license from having "deals" of buy 6 cans and get 2 free? Just that the deal is always on?

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 1:08am

Is there somewhere the proposed legislation can be read?

We could come up with ways to get around it.

ardinn · 11-11-2017 1:11am

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I'd ask for a link/source to back that claim up, but I reckon it wouldn't be forthcoming anytime soon.

My Link / Source is 30 years of experience in the industry!

Rick Shaw wrote: »

If you are off the belief that no one binges on alcohol in bars, who am I to shatter your gullibility.

No-one was not meant to be taken literally - but I would say it's less than 5% of the overall "binge drinking" population.

Again - Im using "experience" and a lot of it, to base this on - When you say you rarely drink I presume your experience of said situations is quite limited.

But if you think the binge drinking problem is not mostly done at the home then who am I to shatter your gullibility.

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 2:11am

Large loop holes in bill.

(7) Where an alcohol product is supplied or offered for sale together with another product (other than an alcohol product) or service, for a single price, this section shall apply as if the alcohol product concerned is supplied or offered for sale on its own for that price.

Alcohol could be sold with gift cards. Basically the same as cash back.

Section 7 there quoted from PDF doc, from
http://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/public-health-alcohol-bill-2015/
under General Scheme link.

BuilderPlumber · 11-11-2017 2:27am

What needs to be done with this and other healthist drivel law is to prove it is not done for health reasons. We ALL know this is done to support pubs, sport, fitness, etc. industries and also for commodity speculators. Suddenly, alcohol gets a value. Create and horde it and one can become rich. This government wants to get elected and they don't fool me. No one asked for MUP. No one likes it or needs it. Drop it if the regime wants to be re-elected. Speculators and lobbies should not dictate to government. And as for those doctors with their diet books: you have failed in your profession and cannot do a proper job.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 11-11-2017 8:42am

ardinn wrote: »

But if you think the binge drinking problem is not mostly done at the home then who am I to shatter your gullibility.

I think quite a lot would disagree with you on this.

McMurphy · 11-11-2017 9:03am

ardinn wrote: »

My Link / Source is 30 years of experience in the industry!

No-one was not meant to be taken literally - but I would say it's less than 5% of the overall "binge drinking" population.

Again - Im using "experience" and a lot of it, to base this on - When you say you rarely drink I presume your experience of said situations is quite limited.

But if you think the binge drinking problem is not mostly done at the home then who am I to shatter your gullibility.

Is it a coincidence that a poster who is rowing in behind MUP legislation, and claiming binge drinking doesn't happen in pubs is also a publican?

Viability.

Edit. I see the poster owns more than one pub.
And an off license too.

Its win/win for him if it gets brought in.

Shelflife · 11-11-2017 10:51am

The vast majority of people in pubs do actually binge drink, the vast majority of people in Ireland binge drink .

The reason for this is that the standard for binge drinking is 3 pints . Or as they like to say 6 standard drinks ( to most people ive asked a std drink to them is a pint) but using the term 6 standard drinks sounds like a lot more.

So if myself and my two brothers go out every sat night and buy a round each and go straight home, all three of us are by definition binge drinkers, problem drinkers and dangerous drinkers and we need to be saved.

There in lies the problem is that the stats being used by the Dept of Health are used to scare monger and give the impression that there is a serious problem out there.

There is a problem but nowhere near the size that they say there is, if you are including me and my brothers in a dangerous and problem drinking equation then I would suggest that the problem is in the definitions more than anything.

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 11:58am

If they were interested in public health they would legalise cannabis immediately. That'd cause an instant drop in the consumption of alcohol. But that wouldn't suit the alcohol dealing friends of politicans would it.

We don't even allow doctors to use cannabis as a medicine for sick children in this country.

I hate the government for trying to bring this in and I hardly even drink.

Geuze · 11-11-2017 12:45pm

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

Is there somewhere the proposed legislation can be read?

We could come up with ways to get around it.

Www.Oireachtas.IE

Rumpy Pumpy · 11-11-2017 12:47pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Lol at all the piss artists getting angry because the price of the cheap lager they drink is going to go up.

my poor tortured hands · 11-11-2017 12:55pm

People are angry at the betrayal and the lies from our elected representatives.

I want our government to discuss and to address big issues, not just harp on about their hobbyhorses.

Children should be treated by doctors, not denied medicine by hateful politicans who are barely out of school. I'm talking about Briefcase here, Simon Harris, backed up by hateful Leo.

Alcohol is very expensive in Ireland. Irish people are driven to drink by corrupt politicans and by criminal policemen. Sort those things out and alcohol abuse will reduce. Legalise cannabis also.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 11-11-2017 12:55pm

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

Large loop holes in bill.

(7) Where an alcohol product is supplied or offered for sale together with another product (other than an alcohol product) or service, for a single price, this section shall apply as if the alcohol product concerned is supplied or offered for sale on its own for that price.

Alcohol could be sold with gift cards. Basically the same as cash back.

Section 7 there quoted from PDF doc, from
http://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/public-health-alcohol-bill-2015/
under General Scheme link.

Interesting... Various political parites are telling us that this is apparently a tourist measure to preserve Irish pub culture, but the this is a Health bill designed to reduce alcohol consumption...

It's like they can't even get their own spin to present this as a consistant idea.

McMurphy · 11-11-2017 1:10pm

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Lol at all the piss artists getting angry because the price of the cheap lager they drink is going to go up.

I think they're (myself included) getting angry because a bunch of **** in Leinster House are trying to piss down our necks and tell us its raining.

All hail the vintners.

Cantona's Collars · 11-11-2017 1:11pm

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I think they're (myself included) getting angry because a bunch of **** in Leinster House are trying to piss down our necks and tell us its raining.

All hail the vintners.

Don't forget their subsidised bar that quite a few ran up very large unpaid tabs on.

Beechwoodspark · 11-11-2017 1:14pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Interesting... Various political parites are telling us that this is apparently a tourist measure to preserve Irish pub culture, but the this is a Health bill designed to reduce alcohol consumption...

It's like they can't even get their own spin to present this as a consistant idea.

It's a typical Irish mess. It's quite disgusting how they try to use the excuse of health measures when in reality they are simply doing their VFI friends' bidding.

Beechwoodspark · 11-11-2017 1:16pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Shelflife wrote: »

The vast majority of people in pubs do actually binge drink, the vast majority of people in Ireland binge drink .

The reason for this is that the standard for binge drinking is 3 pints . Or as they like to say 6 standard drinks ( to most people ive asked a std drink to them is a pint) but using the term 6 standard drinks sounds like a lot more.

So if myself and my two brothers go out every sat night and buy a round each and go straight home, all three of us are by definition binge drinkers, problem drinkers and dangerous drinkers and we need to be saved.

There in lies the problem is that the stats being used by the Dept of Health are used to scare monger and give the impression that there is a serious problem out there.

There is a problem but nowhere near the size that they say there is, if you are including me and my brothers in a dangerous and problem drinking equation then I would suggest that the problem is in the definitions more than anything.

3 pints of average 4.3 percent lager of an evening, is a far cry from what most of us know is actual binge drinking.

McMurphy · 11-11-2017 1:18pm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Don't forget their subsidised bar that quite a few ran up very large unpaid tabs on.

This needs to be requoted more often.

Supporting Irish Pubs:
Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as a social outlet in communities across the country.
We will support the local pub by banning the practice of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol consumption and the viability of pubs.

Where's the 'health concerns' above?

Rumpy Pumpy · 11-11-2017 1:27pm

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Alcoholism and problem drinking is a huge issue in Ireland. It’s a hidden crisis. The bottle of wine or 6 cans a night crew are everywhere. People should be annoyed about the lack of support services for this problem, and not about 6 cans of karpackie going from 8 quid to a tenner.

Fake outrage.

Donal55 · 11-11-2017 1:31pm

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Alcoholism and problem drinking is a huge issue in Ireland. It’s a hidden crisis. The bottle of wine or 6 cans a night crew are everywhere. People should be annoyed about the lack of support services for this problem, and not about 6 cans of karpackie going from 8 quid to a tenner.

Fake outrage.

And do you think more support services or addiction centres will be opened following the €2 increase on my 6 cans of karpackie?

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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