Ireland's Jewish community

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 5:23pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I just gave you two. One guy said he wanted all the jews in Israel expelled. And one said i wasn't Irish. Both SF.

So because of two gobshites everybody is guilty?

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:26pm

Odhinn wrote: »

So because of two gobshites everybody is guilty?

I don't think you are antisemitic. That's the truth.

But I do know that at some point what you are saying or more what SF is saying enables it. You might not mean to but it does.

Sinn Fein doesn't care enough about human rights to walk the line in supporting Palestine in a way that is in line with everyone's rights. That's the truth.

If they really cared they would simply want peace between Israel and Palestine. It would be easy to walk the line of support for Palestine if they wanted to.
Same in NI too. They could walk the line there if they wanted.

steddyeddy · 12-07-2019 5:26pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I just gave you two. One guy said he wanted all the jews in Israel expelled. And one said i wasn't Irish. Both SF.

I can think of more from the monarch that are antisemitic. Do you therefore believe that the British monarchy are antisemitic?

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:28pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I just gave you two. One guy said he wanted all the jews in Israel expelled. And one said i wasn't Irish. Both SF.

Both idiots who shouldn't even be in the party, if what you say is true.

Depending on when this took place, I would say that at one time, when the armed struggle in Ireland was still on-going, there was a certain type of person who would claim to be a member of SF or the Republican Movement, when they were anything but. Hopefully these two fall into this category.

However, to claim that SF is anti-semite based on these two incidents is patently ridiculous.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:29pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I can think of more from the monarch that are antisemitic. Do you therefor believe that the British monarchy are antisemitic?

Its crossed my mind funnily enough yes.

I am not going to repost the picture but Harry wore a nazi costume.

So if the costume fits....you are a nazi.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:29pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Both idiots who shouldn't even be in the party, if what you say is true.

Depending on when this took place, I would say that at one time, when the armed struggle in Ireland was still on-going, there was a certain type of person who would claim to be a member of SF or the Republican Movement, when they were anything but. Hopefully these two fall into this category.

However, to claim that SF is anti-semite based on these two incidents is patently ridiculous.

I hope you are right then.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:33pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The dublin orthodox synagogue was recently defaced with swastikas.

Last year the security guard was attacked.

Lots of stuff happens.

I think we all need to be made aware of any growth in anti-semitism in Ireland. Although I can say I haven't really experienced any, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. One of the greatest dangers is ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

The rise of the far right across Europe is a very worrying development, and if we choose to ignore or downplay any anti-semitism, we are as guilty as the perpetrators.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:34pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I think we all need to be made aware of any growth in anti-semitism in Ireland. Although I can say I haven't really experienced any, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. One of the greatest dangers is ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

The rise of the far right across Europe is a very worrying development, and if we choose to ignore or downplay any anti-semitism, we are as guilty as the perpetrators.

I don't think Ireland has high levels of antisemitism at all actually. I just ran into some bad people a few times. I should have known from the look of them to be honest.

I promise to allow SF make a fresh impression on my mind.

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 5:35pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think you are antisemitic. That's the truth.

But I do know that at some point what you are saying or more what SF is saying enables it. You might not mean to but it does.

Sinn Fein doesn't care enough about human rights to walk the line in supporting Palestine in a way that is in line with everyone's rights. That's the truth.

If they really cared they would simply want peace between Israel and Palestine. It would be easy to walk the line of support for Palestine if they wanted to.
Same in NI too. They could walk the line there if they wanted.

Utter bollocks. "peace" by your definition is palestinians lying down while the rest of their land is stolen. "everybodys rights" my arse - the idf have no rights in regard of their colonial expansion into areas outside their borders.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:37pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Utter bollocks. "peace" by your definition is palestinians lying down while the rest of their land is stolen. "everybodys rights" my arse - the idf have no rights in regard of their colonial expansion into areas outside their borders.

That just sounds like ranting.

Peace by my definition is just that peace. Whatever way the people over there want it. Both people both sides. Its not up to us but them alone.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:39pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Utter bollocks. "peace" by your definition is palestinians lying down while the rest of their land is stolen. "everybodys rights" my arse - the idf have no rights in regard of their colonial expansion into areas outside their borders.

The same argument was always used against the Irish: Accept the situation, regardless of how terrible it is, in the name of "peace".

Croppies and Palestinians lay down, perhaps?

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:40pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

The same argument was always used against the Irish: Accept the situation, regardless of how terrible it is, in the name of "peace".

Croppies and Palestinians lay down, perhaps?

Do you actually know what Palestinians want?

They want all Jews ethnically cleansed from Israel. All of them.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:41pm

Peace without justice, respect, equality and civil rights is NOT peace.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:42pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Peace without justice, respect, equality and civil rights is NOT peace.

Yes. But Hamas gives its own people none of those.

Edgware · 12-07-2019 5:46pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Both idiots who shouldn't even be in the party, if what you say is true.

Depending on when this took place, I would say that at one time, when the armed struggle in Ireland was still on-going, there was a certain type of person who would claim to be a member of SF or the Republican Movement, when they were anything but. Hopefully these two fall into this category.

However, to claim that SF is anti-semite based on these two incidents is patently ridiculous.

But idiots are made feel at home in SF with like minded colleagues who are easily influenced

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:48pm

I don't want to not get on with people or fight because they like sinn fein here.

I feel that is where its going.

I think I will just stop posting in the thread. Its not avoidance. It is just not the kind of energy i want to give out.

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 5:48pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

The same argument was always used against the Irish: Accept the situation, regardless of how terrible it is, in the name of "peace".

Croppies and Palestinians lay down, perhaps?

Pre-fucking-cisely. Read this, and remember it when you see the arguments against palestinian statehood that come up.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+colonialism&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijienH2a_jAhWWSxUIHd6DCNoQ_AUIECgB&biw=1600&bih=887#imgrc=-5Mj6eU8UlhuHM:

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:50pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Pre-fucking-cisely. Read this, and remember it when you see the arguments against palestinian statehood that come up.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+colonialism&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwijienH2a_jAhWWSxUIHd6DCNoQ_AUIECgB&biw=1600&bih=887#imgrc=-5Mj6eU8UlhuHM:

It's the Israelis who want palestine to be its own separate state.

Palestinians dont want that. They want the whole land of palestine and israel to be one state palestine.

And they want the jews ..gone.

Atoms for Peace · 12-07-2019 5:50pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You are in total denial. But to be honest I don't think this thread should be taken up by this debate.

But just know its a part of history and not ignored in the Jewish world.

Also the fact that SF are still anti Semitic is not ignored either. The fact that the SF mayor of Dublin went to an event to commemorate Hajj Amin al-Husseini is not ignored.

What an absolute wally, someone should give him a history lesson in his own party ffs.
SF at one time shared the same aims as Zionism, with notably Rabbi Herzog being a supporter of both the IRA and Haganah.

It's just a pity the IRA hadn't been as focused as their Israeli contemparies such as Haganah. Irish history could have been a lot better.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:52pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

What an absolute wally, someone should give him a history lesson in his own party ffs.
SF at one time shared the same aims as Zionism, with notably Rabbi Herzog being a supporter of both the IRA and Haganah.

His son was a member of the Haganah. But Herzong left disillusioned with Ireland's attitude towards the Jewish refugees. He spent his last years trying to help them.

Not so sure how i feel about the haganah to be honest. Tis all heroic from afar..but up close..

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:54pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do you actually know what Palestinians want?

They want all Jews ethnically cleansed from Israel. All of them.

Perhaps the hardline muslim fundamentalists do.

I would say that most ordinary Palestinian people want the same as people the whole world over: civil rights, justice, equality and respect. Not forgetting freedom from a massively oppressive IDF.

The problem with that is how do we achieve it in a way that is acceptable to both the Palestinian and Israeli people? A long, hard road, but perhaps studying the conflict in the north of Ireland, and the subsequent peace talks, would be a start.

For what it's worth, I think the problems in the Middle East are even more complicated than the situation in Ireland though, and I'm not even sure that there is enough political will on either side to create a framework for peace.

The rise of fundamentalist islam has made the situation even harder than it was before, and although this isn't anything that I'd usually freely admit to, I do find myself becoming slightly more understanding of the Israeli position.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 5:55pm

Edgware wrote: »

But idiots are made feel at home in SF with like minded colleagues who are easily influenced

Helpful and insightful contribution. Well done :rolleyes:

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 5:56pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Perhaps the hardline muslim fundamentalists do.

I would say that most ordinary Palestinian people want the same as people the whole world over: civil rights, justice, equality and respect. Not forgetting freedom from a massively oppressive IDF.

You would be very incorrect.

Palestinians do not care about LGBT rights. Social justice.

They care about honor and their land.

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 5:58pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's the Israelis who want palestine to be its own separate state. .

God love your innocence.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Palestinians dont want that. They want the whole land of palestine and israel to be one state palestine..

Some do support a single state solution, which would never work.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And they want the jews ..gone.

Some of them do. Perhaps if the Israeli state stopped colonising the West Bank and started to dismantle its colonial regime there and in the rest of the OT attitudes might mellow.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 6:00pm

Odhinn wrote: »

God love your innocence.

Some do support a single state solution, which would never work.

Some of them do. Perhaps if the Israeli state stopped colonising the West Bank and started to dismantle its colonial regime there and in the rest of the OT attitudes might mellow.

No that is what the majority of Palestinians want. Like 90% . And they will never give it up.

Israelis left Gaza. No difference in fact they were attacked. It made things worse.

Palestinians feel all jews should leave.

wakka12 · 12-07-2019 6:01pm

I live very near a jewish school in rathgar so see a lot of children passing by in their kippas. I know a few acquaintances who are jewish. And one friend of mine is jewish , israeli-american

Odhinn · 12-07-2019 6:02pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You would be very incorrect.

Palestinians do not care about LGBT rights. Social justice.

They care about honor and their land.

Course not - Palestinians are "other" and lesser beings in culture, religion and acheivement. Thus its only right that they are dealt with sternly. Classic stuff.

When the Israeli security forces destroy palestinian homes and blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols, how much do you reckon they care about LGBT rights and social justice?

Did you ever actually read material from those sites you listed earlier?

Ragnar Lothbrok · 12-07-2019 6:02pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't want to not get on with people or fight because they like sinn fein here.

I feel that is where its going.

I think I will just stop posting in the thread. Its not avoidance. It is just not the kind of energy i want to give out.

Hopefully you continue to post in this thread. It is interesting to see some of your views (even though I have massive problems with some of them, of course). As the only person in this thread, I think, who is Jewish, I think it's vital that you don't feel victimised, and that you continue to add your unique perspective on Jewish people in Ireland.

If this thread doesn't get derailed by anti-Sinn Féin sentiments, it's got the opportunity to be very interesting and informative.

I'm actually surprised it hasn't descended into a muslim bashing thread by the usual suspects so far

Anyway, I'm away for the weekend.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 6:04pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Hopefully you continue to post in this thread. It is interesting to see some of your views (even though I have massive problems with some of them, of course). As the only person in this thread, I think, who is Jewish, I think it's vital that you don't feel victimised, and that you continue to add your unique perspective on Jewish people in Ireland.

If this thread doesn't get derailed by anti-Sinn Féin sentiments, it's got the opportunity to be very interesting and informative.

I'm actually surprised it hasn't descended into a muslim bashing thread by the usual suspects so far

Anyway, I'm away for the weekend.

I would never let it become a Muslim bashing thread or a Palestinian or Arab bashing thread.

I don't even want it to be a Sinn Fein bashing thread.

ILoveYourVibes · 12-07-2019 6:13pm

Odhinn wrote: »

When the Israeli security forces destroy palestinian homes and blackmail gay palestinians, or force palestinains to walk in front of their patrols, how much do you reckon they care about LGBT rights and social justice?

I think you have that backwards. Hamas does all that to palestinians.

And yes Palestinians support a one state solution only .

All the polls taken say this. They also believe armed struggle is the only way.

Ireland's Jewish community

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