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Dublin Metro South vs Luas

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    #182
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,158 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    salmocab wrote: »
    Your talking like everyone that uses the GL between Sandyford and the city are objecting to metro. It’s a limited group.

    I'm not, hence the 'manipulative politicking and expression of narrow self interest' remark. The needs of the many are being deferred in favour of the wants of the few. The real shame is that it can be easily explained to regular Green Line commuters:
    • You won't be able to board at peak times in a few years
    • Why? Because look at the mass of residential units being built directly on the green line
    • The Rethink people are lying to you on the amount of time the line will be out of operation due to works
    • Micheal McDowell and others opposing it have direct biases and conflicts of interest

    But that case isn't being made by the NTA. Individuals with their head screwed on are losing the battle of ideas.

    My view? **** them. Harsh as it may be. Let's cut them out of the plans, build Metro North essentially and take it from there.


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    #183
    LeChienMefiant
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    From https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/members/registerOfMembersInterests/seanad/2018/2018-03-09_register-of-members-interests-seanad-eireann_en.pdf

    My bolding for emphasis

    MCDOWELL, Michael

    1. Occupations etc. .............. Senior Counsel: Law Library, Four Courts, Dublin 7.
    2. Shares etc..................... (i) Shares in unit linked managed fund: Bar of Ireland Retirement Trust Scheme: Pension Fund; (ii) Shares (40 shares jointly held): 33 Old Broad Street (Holdings)(Malta) PLC: Property Investment Company.
    3. Directorships.................. Nil
    4. Land (including property) ... (i) 9 Manders Terrace, Ranelagh, Dublin 6: Letting; (ii) Charleston Road, Ranelagh, Dublin 6 - shared interest in open space: Vacant; (iii) Sheehaun, Lavagh, Roosky, Co. Roscommon: Holiday House; (iv) Plot of land, Lavagh, Roosky, Co. Roscommon: boat mooring
    Yes, but Michael McDowell's home is also metres from there. It has also been used as a business address in the past.


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    #184
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,541 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Irish Times saying tonight that metro south of Charlemont to be scrapped completely.

    Gombeen politics win out again.


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    #185
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Pick a different route then. Go more south west.


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    #186
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,790 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Pick a different route then. Go more south west.

    To Dingle?


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    #187
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Pick a different route then. Go more south west.

    No funding available for that. As a result we're going to end up with a metro terminating in Charlemont, which is pretty damn crap as a public transport proposal.


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    #188
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,541 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What a shambles. Hope people go mental on the southside about what they will be deprived of due to NIMBYs that will still get the benefit of the line a little further north on the southside!

    Horrible, parochial, clientelist politics.


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    #189
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What a shambles. Hope people go mental on the southside about what they will be deprived of due to NIMBYs that will still get the benefit of the line a little further north on the southside!

    Horrible, parochial, clientelist politics.

    Ireland. A piss up in a brewery is about the only thing we CAN organise.


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    #190
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,496 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Irish Times saying tonight that metro south of Charlemont to be scrapped completely.

    Gombeen politics win out again.
    colour me suspicious, but this could be 'a how can we save funds to make up what we need for the hospital' move.


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    #191
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    colour me suspicious, but this could be 'a how can we save funds to make up what we need for the hospital' move.

    No they are talking of tunneling further than planned, if it was purely to save money they would have stopped it shorter. It’s purely to save the hassle of some protests by gutless fools running the country.


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    #192
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What a shambles. Hope people go mental on the southside about what they will be deprived of due to NIMBYs that will still get the benefit of the line a little further north on the southside!

    Horrible, parochial, clientelist politics.

    It is a disgraceful decision and very short sighted.


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    #193
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I use the Luas from various stops near Cabinteely and I'm pleased with today's decision. Closing the green line for frankly any length of time would have been unacceptable to me and tens of thousands of others and frankly unbearable to the roads of the south city and county.

    Yes I can concede that failing to prepare the site for future underground works while the GL was built 15 odd years ago was a typical irish corner cut and lack of forward planning, this would not excuse closure of the green line for any duration now. And yes the tunnel bore should be continued south west to serve the currently congested Rathmines/Terenure/Templeogue/Knocklyon corridor, where densities are sure to increase in the next decades. A new P&R/bus/metro interchange could be easily accommodated at Tymon.


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    #194
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Shane Ross can continue to get to the Dail by bus well after 10am when everyone else is actually at work.


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    #195
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I use the Luas from various stops near Cabinteely and I'm pleased with today's decision. Closing the green line for frankly any length of time would have been unacceptable to me and tens of thousands of others and frankly unbearable to the roads of the south city and county.

    Yes I can concede that failing to prepare the site for future underground works while the GL was built 15 odd years ago was a typical irish corner cut and lack of forward planning, this would not excuse closure of the green line for any duration now. And yes the tunnel bore should be continued south west to serve the currently congested Rathmines/Terenure/Templeogue/Knocklyon corridor, where densities are sure to increase in the next decades. A new P&R/bus/metro interchange could be easily accommodated at Tymon.

    Unfortunately the Luas will quickly enough be at capacity and people using the green line will he even more put out in the future when the tie in happens and it’s closing a busier Luas than now and will likely take longer as there are then less options of how and where to do it.


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    #196
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Why cant they install line crossovers at interim points on the route and at peak times begin some intermediate services at Stillorgan, Balally, Cowper etc? I understand higher frequency will adversely affect the road traffic crossings but thats a natural evolution of public transport prioritisation.


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    #197
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    We need roads, and tram lines that do not stop each other.

    Look at the UK, USA many many huge city's etc.

    What is happening here is crazy to be honest as they are doing nothing to improve transport.


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    #198
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Why cant they install line crossovers at interim points on the route and at peak times begin some intermediate services at Stillorgan, Balally, Cowper etc? I understand higher frequency will adversely affect the road traffic crossings but thats a natural evolution of public transport prioritisation.

    They will have maximum frequency soon enough so that wouldn’t help at all. There are some points for crossing tracks but with the frequency they’ll be running it would be difficult to swap lines to fit in between services. Make no mistake this is kicking the can down the road for someone else to sort out


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    #199
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    We need roads, and tram lines that do not stop each other.

    Look at the UK, USA many many huge city's etc.

    What is happening here is crazy to be honest as they are doing nothing to improve transport.

    Well we certainly wouldn't want to be copying most of the US! Absolutely terrible public transport for the most part. Car is king, feck the environment, terrible, impersonal cities where you can't walk anywhere. All very depressing.


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    #200
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,843 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    salmocab wrote: »
    They will have maximum frequency soon enough so that wouldn’t help at all. There are some points for crossing tracks but with the frequency they’ll be running it would be difficult to swap lines to fit in between services. Make no mistake this is kicking the can down the road for someone else to sort out

    Maybe, but as I've said part of the solution must be to improve PT services on all routes parallel too and reduce each catchment. I detest the political line 'we are where we are', but we are and the closure of the Green Line for any period, for any reason, would've been totally unacceptable.


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    #201
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Maybe, but as I've said part of the solution must be to improve PT services on all routes parallel too and reduce each catchment. I detest the political line 'we are where we are', but we are and the closure of the Green Line for any period, for any reason, would've been totally unacceptable.

    It will still happen though and almost certainly under more difficult circumstances. The only improvements nearby will come under bus connects but just like this it will probably be fudged anyway.


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    #202
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    bk wrote: »
    Well we certainly wouldn't want to be copying most of the US! Absolutely terrible public transport for the most part. Car is king, feck the environment, terrible, impersonal cities where you can't walk anywhere. All very depressing.

    I meant the way the network of roads are but to obviously work better here and segregation of PT.

    Everything is so slow here and takes too much time.


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    #203
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,503 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I use the Luas from various stops near Cabinteely and I'm pleased with today's decision. Closing the green line for frankly any length of time would have been unacceptable to me and tens of thousands of others and frankly unbearable to the roads of the south city and county.
    Wait until you find all trams at Cabinteely are jam-packed with all the new folks at Cherrywood and we'll see how pleased you are.


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    #204
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Maybe, but as I've said part of the solution must be to improve PT services on all routes parallel too and reduce each catchment. I detest the political line 'we are where we are', but we are and the closure of the Green Line for any period, for any reason, would've been totally unacceptable.

    It's going to happen eventually anyway though. And it will happen when the line is even busier now.


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    #205
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Maybe, but as I've said part of the solution must be to improve PT services on all routes parallel too and reduce each catchment. I detest the political line 'we are where we are', but we are and the closure of the Green Line for any period, for any reason, would've been totally unacceptable.

    It wouldn't have been "the closure of the Green Line" for starters. Partial closures, possibly rolling station by station as work was done with the remainder of the services running - doesn't sound quite as scary as "closed" so that's why the anti groups never mentioned it.


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    #206
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    How many places along the green line have homes under construction or almost under construction, as I know Dundrum, Laughanstown and Cherrywood have them, but are there other places too?


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    #207
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    ohographite wrote: »
    How many places along the green line have homes under construction or almost under construction, as I know Dundrum, Laughanstown and Cherrywood have them, but are there other places too?

    https://twitter.com/yimbydublin/status/1101621955936092165


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    #208
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    That above image is way off. No mention of six hundred homes for old Dundrum shopping centre. 1500 on old Dundrum central mental home site and tons of other smaller schemes. If you were to believe that map , the amount of extra capacity the luas will get over the next few years, would soak it up easily!


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    #209
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    That above image is way off. No mention of six hundred homes for old Dundrum shopping centre. 1500 on old Dundrum central mental home site and tons of other smaller schemes. If you were to believe that map , the amount of extra capacity the luas will get over the next few years, would soak it up easily!

    Yes, there's a few missed out, they admit that in another tweet, they just did a manual trawl through the various councils for applications, and if they didn't find it on there, then they didn't include it.

    I've long maintained that the NTA's predictions surrounding the Green Line are hopelessly optimistic, and nothing has changed my opinion since. The report into the Green Line that they just released makes no mention of updating their models to take account of the fact that the law around building heights has changed, so I really can't see Green Line lasting until 2038, it's a ridiculous idea.


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    #210
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It's all OK, some incredibly argumentative guy on Twitter insisted that every single unit in Cherrywood and Sandyford will be rental and somehow only rented by people who can walk to work in those estates.

    Cherrywood is intended to be majority sold to tenants, as it happens


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    #211
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Yes, there's a few missed out, they admit that in another tweet, they just did a manual trawl through the various councils for applications, and if they didn't find it on there, then they didn't include it.

    I've long maintained that the NTA's predictions surrounding the Green Line are hopelessly optimistic, and nothing has changed my opinion since. The report into the Green Line that they just released makes no mention of updating their models to take account of the fact that the law around building heights has changed, so I really can't see Green Line lasting until 2038, it's a ridiculous idea.

    Given the big enough increase luas capacity that is coming in 2021. I think that will do us until cherrywood is finished. It might even cope with that. What i think will be the difference , is you throw a metrolink at Charlemont, all of a sudden there are a major amount of new destinations, that is what will cripple it in my opinion and that is what? Ten years off ... there are a lot of factors, bray and northwest extension being big ones, but they have been kicked miles down the road!


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