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AMA Forum Charter and "Plan" discussion

1246

Comments

  • #152
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    The scary thing is that people really dont see that they are holding a bigoted view, they actually think that it is ok to say the things they said. This was said:
    challengemaster wrote: »
    People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the travelling community.

    Imagine it as this:
    challengemaster wrote: »
    People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the black south african.

    Or this:
    challengemaster wrote: »
    People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the homosexuals.

    I mean seriously? Imagine a gay man being bombarded with accusatory questions pertaining to a gay stereotype?

    Q1: So do most gay people like bathhouse type establishments?
    Q2: How do you feel about the amount of promiscuity within the gay community?
    Answer: I cant speak for other gay people, Im not promiscuous myself.
    Q3: Why dont gay people want to be in monogomous relationships?
    Q4: Do you think most gay people want gay marriage or do they prefer to sleep around a lot?

    I mean - thats the type of nonsense TG had to suffer, except the questions were framed around a negative stereotype of travellers and their income rather than a negative stereotype of gay people and their promiscuity.

    Anyone who was hammering at that line of questioning need to take a long hard look at themselves imo.


  • #153
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    It is "Ask Me Anything" not "I Will Answer Everything".

    The girl was asked questions about income and she gave an answer, the only people that got banned were those that would not accept they were not going to get an answer that they liked on the topic.

    Asking the question was fine, repeatedly asking it after it was clear she was not going to answer to your satisfaction and harassing her about the topic was not OK.

    Bans were threatened to people who asked the question I think, there was a mod warning. And how is asking someone a question that wasn't answered considered harassment? People mentioned she was ducking and diving. I believe she was. She didn't answer a question about her own income either.

    If she didn't want to answer, fine. But to have a mod come in and tell people to stop asking and threatening bans is poor form.
    Gordon wrote: »
    Considering Enda Kenny is paid to answer the public's questions, and people on AMA are not, but instead doing so out of their own volition, revealing as much private details as they wish or are able to reveal.

    No, just don't be a dick, that's all we ask. If you are a dick, you get banned.

    Unfortunately don't be a dick is outdated. We all have different views so what everyone considers a dick is different. I don't consider asking questions like many people asked yesterday as dickish.

    PS. If Enda Kenny did an AMA he would not be paid to answer the questions as it would be voluntary. Are you saying if people asked about his income and he didn't answer mods would threaten bans to people who asked?


  • #154
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    The scary thing is that people really dont see that they are holding a bigoted view, they actually think that it is ok to say the things they said. This was said:



    Imagine it as this:


    Or this:


    I mean seriously? Imagine a gay man being bombarded with accusatory questions pertaining to a gay stereotype?

    Q1: So do most gay people like bathhouse type establishments?
    Q2: How do you feel about the amount of promiscuity within the gay community?
    Answer: I cant speak for other gay people, Im not promiscuous myself.
    Q3: Why dont gay people want to be in monogomous relationships?
    Q4: Do you think most gay people want gay marriage or do they prefer to sleep around a lot?

    I mean - thats the type of nonsense TG had to suffer, except the questions were framed around a negative stereotype of travellers and their income rather than a negative stereotype of gay people and their promiscuity.

    Anyone who was hammering at that line of questioning need to take a long hard look at themselves imo.

    She was asked about her own income as well and didn't answer.

    Asking "How do some travellers afford 100k cars?" is a perfectly reasonable question.

    She is a traveller so it would be expected that she would know some travellers.


  • #155
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    She was asked about her own income as well and didn't answer.

    Asking "How do some travellers afford 100k cars?" is a perfectly reasonable question.

    She is a traveller so it would be expected that she would know some travellers.

    She is not required to answer every question.

    While one question taken out of context might seem reasonable, I think you are doing some serious burying the head in the sand in relation to how the questions were being framed and asked by multiple posters on that thread.

    Youre trying to justify bigotry. There is no justification.


  • #156
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    She is not required to answer every question.

    While one question taken out of context might seem reasonable, I think you are doing some serious burying the head in the sand in relation to how the questions were being framed and asked by multiple posters on that thread.

    Youre trying to justify bigotry. There is no justification.

    Asking questions shouldn't be met with a ban.

    It was a fantastic chance to dispel some ideas of settled people.

    Perhaps by not saying anything, we might have got an answer after all.

    And I don't hear you giving out about mars bars post which was stereotyping.


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  • #157
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Asking questions shouldn't be met with a ban.

    Displaying bigotry should be met with a ban imo. Its muppetry, its being a dick, and it should be roundly discouraged.


  • #158
    Luke92
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Luke92


    Numerous mod warnings about the questions. This site is moderated. Always has been. If you don't agree with the moderation then don't use boards. Simple solution.


  • #159
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    Luke92 wrote: »
    Numerous mod warnings about the questions. This site is moderated. Always has been. If you don't agree with the moderation then don't use boards. Simple solution.

    I'm giving feedback.

    Change the name of the forum.


  • #160
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    I'm giving feedback.

    Change the name of the forum.

    To what?


  • #161
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    To what?

    Questions and Answers


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  • #162
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Questions and Answers

    How is that going to keep the bigotry down?


  • #163
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    No one will bother to volunteer for AMA if they are going to be open to abuse. Could questions not be submitted first, only printed if approved and then the volunteers can choose which to answer?


  • #164
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    eviltwin wrote: »
    No one will bother to volunteer for AMA if they are going to be open to abuse. Could questions not be submitted first, only printed if approved and then the volunteers can choose which to answer?

    Great idea..........
    Sounds like an Enda Kenny AMA.


  • #165
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    mikom wrote: »
    Great idea..........
    Sounds like an Enda Kenny AMA.

    Or we can continue as is and anyone with a decent story to tell won't bother. It happened to the traveller thread and to the one with the son of a same sex couple. If someone is good enough to volunteer they should be protected.


  • #166
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    I'm giving feedback.

    Change the name of the forum.

    >>> Feedback forum.


  • #167
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Or we can continue as is and anyone with a decent story to tell won't bother. It happened to the traveller thread and to the one with the son of a same sex couple. If someone is good enough to volunteer they should be protected.

    No point having an AMA where you can't ask the questions you would like to know the answer to the most.


  • #168
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    No point having an AMA where you can't ask the questions you would like to know the answer to the most.

    They werent the questions I wanted to know the answer to the most.


  • #169
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Good ol trusty gits bone up to his usual self again .


  • #170
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    No point having an AMA where you can't ask the questions you would like to know the answer to the most.

    I'm talking more about the phrasing of questions than the questions themselves and the way some people didn't ask questions at all but used the thread to criticize - thinking of the poster with two mums specifically.


  • #171
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »
    Good ol trusty gits bone up to his usual self again .

    I'm surprised you didn't come in with a childish comment abouts gowls or something like you always post in the Utd thread.

    Great feedback on the forum though. Top notch.


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  • #172
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    They werent the questions I wanted to know the answer to the most.

    It was for a lot of people, hence why it was asked so often.


  • #173
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    I'm surprised you didn't come in with a childish comment abouts gowls or something like you always post in the Utd thread.

    Great feedback on the forum though. Top notch.

    Ahhh good ol deflection.

    Well if you want to bring up other forums, why don't you post there?
    You have a history of not being a credible poster.


    But forum feedback. You can ask anything you want within the remit of the site, don't be surprised if someone dosent want to answer a question. They don't have to, do you want someone to answer every single question?


  • #174
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    It was for a lot of people, hence why it was asked so often.

    No - it was asked so often because bigots were using the AMA as an opportunity to display some "justified" bigotry.


  • #175
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »
    Ahhh good ol deflection.

    Well if you want to bring up other forums, why don't you post there?
    You have a history of not being a credible poster.


    But forum feedback. You can ask anything you want within the remit of the site, don't be surprised if someone dosent want to answer a question. They don't have to, do you want someone to answer every single question?

    Clearly you can't ask anything you want.

    You could at least read a few posts in the thread before trying to feign feedback just to have a pop at me.


  • #176
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    No - it was asked so often because bigots were using the AMA as an opportunity to display some "justified" bigotry.

    Asking someone where they get their income and clear dodging of the question so it keeps popping up because others would like to know the answer too is bigotry?


  • #177
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Clearly you can't ask anything you want.

    You could at least read a few posts in the thread before trying to feign feedback just to have a pop at me.

    Yes. Obviously you can't ask anything you want.

    Why can't you see that? It's not your site and harassing people will be punished


  • #178
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Asking someone where they get their income and clear dodging of the question so it keeps popping up because others would like to know the answer too is bigotry?

    Then just take it as it is. Make up your own implication


  • #179
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Asking someone where they get their income and clear dodging of the question so it keeps popping up because others would like to know the answer too is bigotry?

    Again Gits_bone, you are ignoring the context and tone of the questions.


  • #180
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    No point having an AMA where you can't ask the questions you would like to know the answer to the most.

    As risk of repeating what countless others have been trying to say, it's not what was asked, but how it was asked, and if indeed, it was a question at all, rather than a thinly veiled dig at the travelling community under the guise of "well OP, you did sign up to have questions asked, and we have a RIGHT TO KNOW..."

    TravellerGirl, are either yourself or your partner in paid employment currently. If not, what do ye see as your future prospects for earning a living?
    Question. And a reasonable one, which the OP may or may not choose to answer.
    How can some travellers afford €100,000 cars without actually having employment?
    Insinuation.
    Hi op,How come travellers tend to have large cashflows and drive big new cars,designer clothes etc without being employed? Is there that much of a return in scrap metal collection?
    Insinuation/accusation.
    IMO the settled community would be a whole lot more open to accepting travellers if a high (higher than settled) proportion of your community were not as prone to stealing, fighting and treating the countryside like a tip.
    Being a dick, full stop.

    The fact that this needs to be explained in black and white, and yet is still beyond the grasp of some people, is quite frankly, worrying. And says a lot more about the person asking these 'questions', than the person who signed up for the AMA to begin with.


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  • #181
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Quote:
    TravellerGirl, are either yourself or your partner in paid employment currently. If not, what do ye see as your future prospects for earning a living?

    That was my one.
    Needless to say it was not answered.


  • #182
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    mike_ie wrote: »
    As risk of repeating what countless others have been trying to say, it's not what was asked, but how it was asked, and if indeed, it was a question at all, rather than a thinly veiled dig at the travelling community under the guise of "well OP, you did sign up to have questions asked, and we have a RIGHT TO KNOW..."



    Question. And a reasonable one, which the OP may or may not choose to answer.


    Insinuation.


    Insinuation/accusation.


    Being a dick, full stop.

    The fact that this needs to be explained in black and white, and yet is still beyond the grasp of some people, is quite frankly, worrying. And says a lot more about the person asking these 'questions', than the person who signed up for the AMA to begin with.

    That's not insinuation? It's well known that travellers make out they get an income from scrap. So asking the question in that way is valid.

    Asking how someone has a car worth 100k with no employment is yet another valid question.

    Last point you made, people are allowed to have an opinion. If that's someones views then they should be allowed say them. It's not being a dick, it's being honest. Do you want to censor honest opinions now and make it come across that there's no judgement of travellers and everyone gets on great?


  • #183
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Gits_bone wrote: »
    Asking how someone has a car worth 100k with no employment is yet another valid question.

    So walk into any halting site and ask any lad there.

    No?

    Thought not.


  • #184
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    Neyite wrote: »
    So walk into any halting site and ask any lad there.

    No?

    Thought not.

    If a traveler offered themselves to be put on stage to answer questions then yep.


  • #185
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Gits_bone wrote: »

    Asking how someone has a car worth 100k with no employment is yet another valid question.
    Neyite wrote: »
    So walk into any halting site and ask any lad there.

    No?

    Thought not.

    You should do it, Gits_bone.
    I doubt any violence would occur, as it would be so out of character.


  • #186
    Gits_bone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Gits_bone


    mikom wrote: »
    You should do it, Gits_bone.
    I doubt any violence would occur, as it would be so out of character.

    Post of the Day.


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  • #187
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    1) Ask Me Anything. It does not say, and I'm repeating myself here, "I will answer everything" for a reason. No one has the right to demand answers off another person here on this forum. No one. That's how this forum has been set up right from the very start.

    2) "All we did was ask general questions" is simply not true. Had one person asked, and accepted the perfectly reasonable answer given, that would've been that. But a mob formed and we were met with increasingly hostile phrasing and accusatory language - Mike highlighted just how much above. Do you know how many posts Niamh and I deleted before posting that warning? 21. On a thread that had 140 posts at the time. 15% of the thread had to be deleted. So were warnings needed? You're damn right they were. Did any of the mob pay attention? No. It's likely that we're simply going to have to have the forum operate on a pre-moderated basis because of these people. The very first post of *this* thread has all these rules clearly written. If anything we were far too lenient on the mob.

    3)
    People have these attitudes for a reason - and that lies solely with the travelling community.
    is one of the most bitterly disappointing things I have ever read on this site. Are we suggesting that a community of people having some sort of mind control over another human and bending their thoughts against their will? :rolleyes: That someone felt they could justifiably say that of any minority group and that others would join in agreeing with the sentiment is shameful.

    We're done with this topic, it's over. Any more talk on it will just be removed, I've indulged the discussion far more than it deserves on this thread. I've never once in my almost 37 years on this planet had a good experience with any members of the Traveller Community until I spoke to this lady about doing the AMA, and have been guiltier than many when it comes to making terrible blanket accusations against them. However, none of those people in my past were the lady who decided to step in and answer questions for those of us who wanted to learn why we have such radically differing cultures that are equally Irish. I'm honestly ashamed of how this lady was treated by some of the members of this site.


  • #188
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,102 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I've been thinking about this.

    In Human Rights education as a way of increasing understanding between people there is the concept of a living library where people actually go and physically talk to someone. I think in Sweden someone dubbed the project lend a lesbian.

    In some ways I think typing responses on a messageboard is great but you still dont quite get the humanising aspect of it.

    I wonder if perhaps and/or some of the respondents might consider that some reponses could be given via youtube.

    I think in a way that responding in a video might be more humanising. I know when I read the man with 2 mothers story I was engaged but I found it more interesting when I saw the guys photo.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #189
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Maybe this isn't the place for this, but I wanted to mention that the AMA forum isn't on the dropdown list of Sys forums at the top of the page. The first forum listed is Announcements, then Awards.

    Maybe that's intentional, I'm not sure.


  • #190
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    osarusan wrote: »
    Maybe this isn't the place for this, but I wanted to mention that the AMA forum isn't on the dropdown list of Sys forums at the top of the page. The first forum listed is Announcements, then Awards.

    Maybe that's intentional, I'm not sure.

    I can see it on the drop down list.


  • #191
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    I can see it on the drop down list.

    Oh really?

    I am using the older vb version still, so maybe that explains it?


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  • #192
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    osarusan wrote: »
    Oh really?

    I am using the older vb version still, so maybe that explains it?

    I'm on the newer version alright. I'm using Safari on an ipad right now.


  • #193
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    osarusan wrote: »
    Oh really?

    I am using the older vb version still, so maybe that explains it?

    Older skins don't update the forum lists when new forums are added.

    It's what finally got me to switch over :pac:

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #194
    GhostInTheRuins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    Is the sys category really where this forum should be? I wasn't aware of it's existence until I saw someone mention it elsewhere on boards. So then I went to look for it and couldn't find it because the last place I would have looked was under sys. I only found it through a search.

    Wouldn't soc be a much more appropriate category for it to be under? It's completely hidden away where it is.

    I assume (possibly incorrectly) that the reason it's here is because of the strict moderation, but couldn't that still be achieved in a different category where it's much more visible?


  • #195
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    It's in the Sys category because the office is directly managing the forum. So it's a part of Boards.ie infrastructure in a sense.


  • #196
    Luke92
    Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Luke92


    Any chance of a convicted murderer AMA? That would be different.


  • #197
    John_D80
    Registered Users Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭John_D80


    Luke92 wrote: »
    Any chance of a convicted murderer AMA? That would be different.


    With respect, this would be wrong on so many levels.


  • #198
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,352 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    John_D80 wrote: »
    With respect, this would be wrong on so many levels.

    Also, any AMA that hasn't been done yet would be 'different'.

    For example, getting Donovan back to actually engage?

    :)


  • #199
    Tilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Tilly


    Are there anymore lined up?


  • #200
    artanevilla
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    I'm sure there's a few of these on boards and it would be interesting to hear from:

    *A taxi driver
    *A farmer
    *A serving member of the Defence Forces


  • #201
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Dav wrote: »
    It's in the Sys category because the office is directly managing the forum. So it's a part of Boards.ie infrastructure in a sense.

    Going by that logic shouldn't the "Call of Duty" forum be under the Region>South West category because the forum mod is from Ballydehob*?



    The previous poster has a point, it is hidden away here in a category that has nothing to do with the board's content.

    Put it under Soc or at least put a link to it in there and it should liven up a bit.

    *May not be true.


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