The Middle Distance Thread

ecoli · 24-03-2014 4:47pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

What spikes do people wear/would reccommend for 1500m/mile distance?

Can't stay using my XC spikes forever.

In terms of spikes my opinion would be that Nike are streaks ahead of the competition in this regard

Personally I run in the Lanangs (an S/C spike but a very hard plate and I find the great and the only issue I have ever had in them was a 4x100 and sadly I think the issue was me not the spikes

)

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket the flyknits are a quality spike but depending on how much you use them probably not the greatest investment.

The Victories arnd Matumbos are great spikes also and have heard great things about.

The Zoom milers have been a solid spike since I was a kid and still favourite amongst alot I know its a shoe that is not standout amazing but has been solidly improving each addition

If you are anti NOP and want to protest however and not opt for Nike the Brooks mach is a great spike also

KielyUnusual · 24-03-2014 7:13pm

Thanks for all the replies. General consensus seems to be with the Nike Matumbos or the Victories. I'll go with PConn's advice and pick the most retinally offensive pair in the shop. Prepare to be intimidated when ye toe the line with me over the summer

.

ecoli · 28-03-2014 6:09pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I will try and throw a bit of a calender together over the weekend.

Currently have a calendar I am in the process of building to hopefully provide as many races (and the list of events per meet) hoping to have it done up by early next week and from there can have it open to everyone as a working process.

Many people eyeing up National Seniors?

Been looking at the season myself and I may look to target the Steeple here as it will go well with the 1500/5k training I have been gearing towards for the summer rather than trying to fit in 10k. Gonna take a bit of a jump as I will need a big PB just to be in touch with the field but given I have a good endurance base and training has been relatively consistent all year I would be hoping to get close to 10 min here

ecoli · 28-03-2014 7:09pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

That could be a good idea. Part of me thinks that 3 sessions in the week might be a bit too much, even if one of them is taken a little easier i.e. the Thursday tempo. A long run with some faster sections on the Thursday might be ideal. I'm even plotting out some ideal sections for the faster stuff in my head as I type. Can always do the odd club session on the Thursday and fit in the longer run on the Sunday where appropriate. There is a tendency to compartmentalise everything in to the week because its easier to plan but a bit of flexibility never goes too far astray.

Probably a bit late in this regard but my track specific work is broken into two week blocks as follows -

Week 1 - Three sessions
Week 2 - Two sessions and long run

This could be a good way of transitioning to three sessions a week as you only have it every second week and also gives you a little more leeway to change around days of sessions

ecoli · 29-03-2014 6:31pm

Had an issue losing the field event tab here so hoping someone will get pro active and save me having to do it up again

Here is a list (working progress and anyone can add to it). I couldn't find a list for the Cork Gradeds or a list to programme for Thomond games. As Open races etc become available they can be added

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai_n0GctxVLddEV2bG9YamNBVUZ1YTNwclJ1czNGSXc#gid=0

Stazza · 29-03-2014 8:52pm

ecoli wrote: »

Had an issue losing the field event tab here so hoping someone will get pro active and save me having to do it up again

Here is a list (working progress and anyone can add to it). I couldn't find a list for the Cork Gradeds or a list to programme for Thomond games. As Open races etc become available they can be added

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai_n0GctxVLddEV2bG9YamNBVUZ1YTNwclJ1czNGSXc#gid=0

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Timmaay · 29-03-2014 9:09pm

Well done, nice going ecoli. It would be worth putting in afew other fields, like link to the timetable, online entries, etc etc, I'd have no problems helping ya out with likes of that. On the race list, IMC dates are up also, they are definitely worthy of inclusion!

YFlyer · 30-03-2014 9:18pm

Attached is the timetable for the Thomond Games.

The DMR, Distance Medley Relay, is 1200m, 800m, 400m and 1600m. Send entries for you teams in to thomondgames@gmail.com

KielyUnusual · 01-04-2014 10:42pm

It begins......

First 1500m session completed this evening. 8 x 400 with 90s recovery at 1500m pace. All the reps were 68s give or take half a second so very happy with this. At this stage, that is certainly aspirational 1500m pace

. Wore the new spikes for the first time too. Felt very strange at first. They are so narrow compared to normal runners but they were comfortable enough once I got going. Felt really comfortable on the first 200m for all the reps but from the second one in, I was feeling it for the second 200. Its certainly a different kind of pain to the normal sessions we do. I expect its going to take a few weeks to get used to this. Not that it will get any easier.

The plan from the coach is to do a mix of 800m, 3k and 1500m sessions. 800m session next week so that is going to be interesting. Will be racing the 800m at the first graded meet too so will be a good comparison to the one I ran last year.

dna_leri · 01-04-2014 10:47pm

Were they 8x400s ?

KielyUnusual · 01-04-2014 10:57pm

dna_leri wrote: »

Were they 8x400s ?

Indeed. My long distance past just doesn't want to let go.

Timmaay · 01-04-2014 11:03pm

Good going Kiely! I was just about to update this also! Last friday was one of my 1st proper sessions back, it was 3x1k (each in about 3.17), then 3x400m at 800m pace, with a 800m jog recovery, and finally 3x100m at 400m pace. Fairly heavy session 1st day back for me, but some of the juniors in the club are in schools t&f mode already! Anyways kept up with them for the ks fine, but totally blewup during the 400s, the lads were doing about 60s for them, and I just didn't have the fitness to pull any sorta 800m pace after the ks.

Anyways, roll on tonight, it was 400, 600, 800, 600, 400, all at 1500m pace, and 1/2 jog recovery. I easied into it for the 1st 400, and after that sat with the same clubmate who had handed me my ass the previous friday during the 400s, we were knocking out 68s also for most of them, with a 65 last 400. Really tough going as I'm just not fit yet, however the best session I've done in a long while.

dna_leri · 01-04-2014 11:15pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

It begins......

First 1500m session completed this evening. 8 x 400 with 90s recovery at 1500m pace. All the reps were 68s give or take half a second so very happy with this. At this stage, that is certainly aspirational 1500m pace . Wore the new spikes for the first time too. Felt very strange at first. They are so narrow compared to normal runners but they were comfortable enough once I got going. Felt really comfortable on the first 200m for all the reps but from the second one in, I was feeling it for the second 200. Its certainly a different kind of pain to the normal sessions we do. I expect its going to take a few weeks to get used to this. Not that it will get any easier.

The plan from the coach is to do a mix of 800m, 3k and 1500m sessions. 800m session next week so that is going to be interesting. Will be racing the 800m at the first graded meet too so will be a good comparison to the one I ran last year.

If you are doing 8x400 in 68s in your first session you should be looking at 4:10 1500m this season.

dna_leri · 01-04-2014 11:20pm

For my first real track session today, I was happy with a 12x200m in av 34.3s off 200m jog (av 67s).
Did some hurdle drills too which I plan to build on - something like this:
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-do-hurdle-drills

ecoli · 01-04-2014 11:21pm

Great session KU.

I would agree with dna regarding time. Aiming to go low 4.10s this year myself and that sort of split is exactly what I would be aiming for as an indicator.

Feeling a little bit like I will be playing catch up myself as my track specific work is still another 4 weeks off but have started to add 200s at the end of longer sessions for a bit of transition work regarding turnover and happy enough that effort was not too bad averaging 34s at the end of a mile repeat session without feeling like I was forcing it

ecoli · 01-04-2014 11:28pm

dna_leri wrote: »

Did some hurdle drills too which I plan to build on - something like this:
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-do-hurdle-drills

The hurdle work is a very solid start. Have been a bit shy of this the last month or two but must start coming back to it.

Alot of the exercises I do would be variants of the above and can be used as a progression

- forward hurdle walk done with arms held over heard known as zombies
- with side skip I do 3 hurdles up and 2 back which find great for coordination and focus as well as making more use out of say 5 hurdles
- using the side of hurdle doing trail leg hurdle action (forward and back)
- low level plyometric "bunny hops"

KielyUnusual · 02-04-2014 9:12am

dna_leri wrote: »

If you are doing 8x400 in 68s in your first session you should be looking at 4:10 1500m this season.

ecoli wrote: »

Great session KU.

I would agree with dna regarding time. Aiming to go low 4.10s this year myself and that sort of split is exactly what I would be aiming for as an indicator.

Feeling a little bit like I will be playing catch up myself as my track specific work is still another 4 weeks off but have started to add 200s at the end of longer sessions for a bit of transition work regarding turnover and happy enough that effort was not too bad averaging 34s at the end of a mile repeat session without feeling like I was forcing it

The coach was talking along the same lines. It's a long season ahead so I'm hoping I'll be able to do this session a lot more comfortably in 6 or 7 weeks time. Consistency, as ever, will be key to hitting a goal like that.

Regarding earlier advice. I've decided to knock the midweek run on the head. Will just go for an easier run at lunch time. Could definitely feel the effects of the increased pace after the session last night so don't want to take any unnecessary risks at this early stage. Might re-introduce the odd mid week longer run over the summer after I've adapted to the new regime.

pconn062 · 02-04-2014 11:16am

ecoli wrote: »

Had an issue losing the field event tab here so hoping someone will get pro active and save me having to do it up again

Here is a list (working progress and anyone can add to it). I couldn't find a list for the Cork Gradeds or a list to programme for Thomond games. As Open races etc become available they can be added

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai_n0GctxVLddEV2bG9YamNBVUZ1YTNwclJ1czNGSXc#gid=0

Thanks for that man, sorry I was swamped there for the last 10 days or so, and haven't been on here much. Never got a chance to get around to that, so much appreciated.

ecoli · 02-04-2014 12:21pm

Leevale games are this weekend as far as I know also. Haven't a link at the moment though

RuinedEye · 02-04-2014 3:45pm

http://www.leevale.org/2014/leevale-2014-online-entry/

RuinedEye · 07-04-2014 8:27am

So How did everyones weekend go? Anyone racing in Leevale or other?

Timmaay · 09-04-2014 7:29am

RuinedEye wrote: »

So How did everyones weekend go? Anyone racing in Leevale or other?

Nope, but last nights session of 2sets of 3x500 at 15 pace felt like a race, I'm in bits this morning! The bloody kids I'm training with are getting quicker and quicker, have me under pressure ha!

RuinedEye · 09-04-2014 9:39am

Timmaay wrote: »

Nope, but last nights session of 2sets of 3x500 at 15 pace felt like a race, I'm in bits this morning! The bloody kids I'm training with are getting quicker and quicker, have me under pressure ha!

Well at least there is something to work to! Nothing worse than doing sessions when you have no one to chase or lead. Had 10x400 at 3k pace last night mostly on my own for the session. Feeling good today after a good roller session last night.

KielyUnusual · 09-04-2014 10:58am

Timmaay wrote: »

Nope, but last nights session of 2sets of 3x500 at 15 pace felt like a race, I'm in bits this morning! The bloody kids I'm training with are getting quicker and quicker, have me under pressure ha!

Opposite here, was unoptimistic about my session last night. Same 8 X 400 w/ 90s recovery as last week. Somehow, despite not doing much in the interim, they were a lot easier and the splits on average were 1-2s better. Maybe this speed training stuff actually works

.

pconn062 · 14-04-2014 5:59pm

So I see a lot of you guys have started speed sessions already, I was thinking of maybe holding off until the end of the month but might start this week (I feel left out!). I have been doing mostly 5k work up until now with the odd tempo run thrown in (while struggling to get back from injury, which seems like it is finally gone). I'm also thinking of introducing a second weekly session this week, so maybe a speed session and alternating a hill/tempo session.

Are we getting itchy feet yet, first Graded Meet is in two weeks! Anyone running it?

dna_leri · 14-04-2014 6:17pm

pconn062 wrote: »

So I see a lot of you guys have started speed sessions already, I was thinking of maybe holding off until the end of the month but might start this week (I feel left out!). I have been doing mostly 5k work up until now with the odd tempo run thrown in (while struggling to get back from injury, which seems like it is finally gone). I'm also thinking of introducing a second weekly session this week, so maybe a speed session and alternating a hill/tempo session.

Are we getting itchy feet yet, first Graded Meet is in two weeks! Anyone running it?

I won't start speed sessions (race pace or faster) before May - it's a long season and I won't do any of the early meets. However I am starting to head that direction with hill sprints and strides now. I would recommend that for someone coming back from injury too. It gets the body ready for the faster stuff. They can then transition into 150s or 200s over the next few weeks.

pconn062 · 14-04-2014 6:38pm

dna_leri wrote: »

I won't start speed sessions (race pace or faster) before May - it's a long season and I won't do any of the early meets. However I am starting to head that direction with hill sprints and strides now. I would recommend that for someone coming back from injury too. It gets the body ready for the faster stuff. They can then transition into 150s or 200s over the next few weeks.

Interesting, my plan is slightly different in that my season will be as good as over at the end of July as I am away for most of August so I'm looking to peak a little earlier (middle of July). The good thing about my injury (if such a thing exists) is that I could still run on it, not much hard work but I could still get out for a run each day so I didn't lose a lot of fitness (about 10 days in total). Can I ask why you are not targeting the early meets, are your big races later in the summer?

Stazza · 14-04-2014 6:56pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Interesting, my plan is slightly different in that my season will be as good as over at the end of July as I am away for most of August so I'm looking to peak a little earlier (middle of July). The good thing about my injury (if such a thing exists) is that I could still run on it, not much hard work but I could still get out for a run each day so I didn't lose a lot of fitness (about 10 days in total). Can I ask why you are not targeting the early meets, are your big races later in the summer?

He wants to race me in the National Masters Champs in August:D

pconn062 · 14-04-2014 7:16pm

Also just in case anyone is interested, the last ALSAA winter series race is on tomorrow night, 1 mile @ 7.30pm. I'm considering giving it a go.

Sacksian · 14-04-2014 7:38pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Also just in case anyone is interested, the last ALSAA winter series race is on tomorrow night, 1 mile @ 7.30pm. I'm considering giving it a go.

This series does cover a wide range of abilities, so might be worth checking beforehand that they're doing a few races (I'm sure they will do at least two) if you're going for a time.

Regardless, it's still a nice chance to run a good mile. I think there's normally good crowds from Civil Service Harriers and (possibly?) Drogheda & District there. My lungs and legs are still recovering from the mile at the relays yesterday, so I won't make it!

KielyUnusual · 14-04-2014 7:41pm

pconn062 wrote: »

So I see a lot of you guys have started speed sessions already, I was thinking of maybe holding off until the end of the month but might start this week (I feel left out!). I have been doing mostly 5k work up until now with the odd tempo run thrown in (while struggling to get back from injury, which seems like it is finally gone). I'm also thinking of introducing a second weekly session this week, so maybe a speed session and alternating a hill/tempo session.

Are we getting itchy feet yet, first Graded Meet is in two weeks! Anyone running it?

I should be at the Graded Meets. The coach I think wants us to run the 800m but he's very fickle so is liable to a change of heart. Could be the 3k either.

What are you planning on running PConn?

dna_leri · 14-04-2014 8:12pm

Stazza wrote: »

He wants to race me in the National Masters Champs in August:D

Ya moving up to 1500 this year. You up for it?

Stazza · 14-04-2014 8:20pm

dna_leri wrote: »

Ya moving up to 1500 this year. You up for it?

I've read your log from start to finish, so I now know why you're affectionately and respectfully known as, The Sligo Silver Speedo

If I'm still alive in August, I'm planning on giving it a go, but I'm not sure whether I'll do the 1500m or the 5000m. But just so you know in advance, if I do the 1500m, it'll be hard from the gun - none of this sit and assemble your Zimmer stuff.

dna_leri · 14-04-2014 8:25pm

Stazza wrote: »

I've read your log from start to finish, so I now know why you're affectionately and respectfully known as, The Sligo Silver Speedo If I'm still alive in August, I'm planning on giving it a go, but I'm not sure whether I'll do the 1500m or the 5000m. But just so you know in advance, if I do the 1500m, it'll be hard from the gun - none of this sit and assemble your Zimmer stuff.

I have not worn them grey speedos in years. :-D

No matter how hard you go from the gun it will still be the last 200 that matters. Keep working on that kick.

pconn062 · 14-04-2014 8:33pm

Sacksian wrote: »

This series does cover a wide range of abilities, so might be worth checking beforehand that they're doing a few races (I'm sure they will do at least two) if you're going for a time.

Regardless, it's still a nice chance to run a good mile. I think there's normally good crowds from Civil Service Harriers and (possibly?) Drogheda & District there. My lungs and legs are still recovering from the mile at the relays yesterday, so I won't make it!

Thanks for that, I have heard that the standard can be a bit hit or miss. Hopefully they have a few lads in the 4:50-5:00 mile pace. Haven't decided fully yet if I'll head up.

KielyUnusual wrote: »

I should be at the Graded Meets. The coach I think wants us to run the 800m but he's very fickle so is liable to a change of heart. Could be the 3k either.

What are you planning on running PConn?

I think I will run the 800m and see how I get on. Never ran an 800m when I was fit and although I won't be really fit by then it should be a good opener for the season. I had initially thought about doing the 3k but the coach is pushing me towards the 800m. I'll be down a few grades from you either way!

ecoli · 14-04-2014 11:48pm

dna_leri wrote: »

I won't start speed sessions (race pace or faster) before May - it's a long season and I won't do any of the early meets. However I am starting to head that direction with hill sprints and strides now. I would recommend that for someone coming back from injury too. It gets the body ready for the faster stuff. They can then transition into 150s or 200s over the next few weeks.

I am in a similar boat as you but for different reasons. With all the strength stuff I have been doing over the winter I have been spending the last weeks slowly incorporating a bit of lighter speed stuff to prep the body for fear of injury so as such have been using strides, turnover 200s and hills as a way of slowly introducing speed.

Tomorrow is my first faster than 5k track session since about mid Dec early Jan, a weird sort of excitement for a bit of faster stuff.

Timmaay · 15-04-2014 12:47am

I honestly don't know whether to do 800 or 3k at the graded either! I'll see what way sessions go over the next 2weeks, I'll do one 800 session along the line, and if my calves don't lockup and I can manage 60sec/lap pace for that session then I might just be ready to wing an 800, otherwise its 3k, and go out like a looney from the gun at mile pace ha!

ecoli · 15-04-2014 12:52am

Lads its all about the 3k, that's where all the cool kids will be:cool:

KielyUnusual · 15-04-2014 7:52am

Timmaay wrote: »

I honestly don't know whether to do 800 or 3k at the graded either! I'll see what way sessions go over the next 2weeks, I'll do one 800 session along the line, and if my calves don't lockup and I can manage 60sec/lap pace for that session then I might just be ready to wing an 800, otherwise its 3k, and go out like a looney from the gun at mile pace ha!

That's the only way you know how

Timmaay · 15-04-2014 12:41pm

ecoli wrote: »

Lads its all about the 3k, that's where all the cool kids will be:cool:

Ah now, 800 is where the sh&t goes down in fairness, it sorts the boys from the men, just this one alittle early in the season for me ha!

Sacksian · 16-04-2014 11:34am

dna_leri wrote: »

Ya moving up to 1500 this year. You up for it?

Seriously? How come you’re moving up to 1500m? The 400m/800m double is so much rarer than the 800m/1500m (and you’ve got the speed for both).

Throw in a couple of 1500s for sure but, based on your description of your training from your log and the sessions you seem to enjoy most, you seem to be a natural 400m/800m guy and you could definitely do the 400m/800m double in August!

Sacksian · 16-04-2014 11:39am

Current plan is to do the 'B' 3k at the Graded. I did 4.46 for the mile leg at the Relays on Sunday so hoping to get under 9.20 for 3k. Have only run one before so should get a PB anyway!

ecoli · 16-04-2014 11:47am

Sacksian wrote: »

Current plan is to do the 'B' 3k at the Graded. I did 4.46 for the mile leg at the Relays on Sunday so hoping to get under 9.20 for 3k. Have only run one before so should get a PB anyway!

Might be joining you so. Similar target myself off shape I am in. Always do be worried about lining up in B for the first graded of the year. People tend to over estimate there current form and jump into A and can leave B a little light at the top some times and you running on your own.

Coming in to this off a soft PB and a very good season opening session so hoping to be on board the PB train myself

KielyUnusual · 16-04-2014 12:25pm

ecoli wrote: »

Might be joining you so. Similar target myself off shape I am in. Always do be worried about lining up in B for the first graded of the year. People tend to over estimate there current form and jump into A and can leave B a little light at the top some times and you running on your own.

Coming in to this off a soft PB and a very good season opening session so hoping to be on board the PB train myself

Might also be joining you on this one. Ran 9.21 last year I think, so sub 9.20 would also be the aim. If we're all running then we should get a good pace group going. I think last year the 'B' and 'C' race were amalgamated and I finished second. Winner was about 10 seconds ahead and third was another 10 seconds behind so not much to work off during the race. Back of the 'A' race could be a better option. Must look up last years results.

dna_leri · 16-04-2014 12:41pm

Sacksian wrote: »

Seriously? How come you’re moving up to 1500m? The 400m/800m double is so much rarer than the 800m/1500m (and you’ve got the speed for both).

Throw in a couple of 1500s for sure but, based on your description of your training from your log and the sessions you seem to enjoy most, you seem to be a natural 400m/800m guy and you could definitely do the 400m/800m double in August!

To be honest I have not fully decided which events to do in August but thanks for the vote of confidence. If I was just interested in winning, I would go for 400m but I would prefer to work on improving my times this year and my 1500 certainly needs work. Any double is difficult with timing but improved endurance is essential - so that's been my focus for the past 10+ weeks anyway and should benefit my 1500m time.

You are going well with 4:46 for a long mile. What's your aim for the summer?

ecoli · 16-04-2014 1:13pm

1st night back in spikes last night. Calves letting me know today what they think of that

Sacksian · 16-04-2014 2:09pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Might also be joining you on this one. Ran 9.21 last year I think, so sub 9.20 would also be the aim. If we're all running then we should get a good pace group going. I think last year the 'B' and 'C' race were amalgamated and I finished second. Winner was about 10 seconds ahead and third was another 10 seconds behind so not much to work off during the race. Back of the 'A' race could be a better option. Must look up last years results.

If there are a few aiming for a similar target, it might make more sense to be sweepers for the 'A', rather than the vanguard in the 'B'?? I *will* draft off any pace group that is formed!

9.10 / 9.11 seemed to be the rear of the 'A' race last year.

Sacksian · 16-04-2014 2:13pm

dna_leri wrote: »

To be honest I have not fully decided which events to do in August but thanks for the vote of confidence. If I was just interested in winning, I would go for 400m but I would prefer to work on improving my times this year and my 1500 certainly needs work. Any double is difficult with timing but improved endurance is essential - so that's been my focus for the past 10+ weeks anyway and should benefit my 1500m time.

You are going well with 4:46 for a long mile. What's your aim for the summer?

Fair enough - a 400m/800m double at the Masters would be some achievement though... my aim is to improve my 800 time by August but I'll also be concentrating on 1500 until July probably! But I wouldn't be as fast over 400 as you and I think my hamstrings would detach themselves if I tried an 800 before June.

Been injured and sick on and off since the start of this year so still don't feel like I've had a decent run at training yet but Sunday was a good run, given the conditions, course and the fact it felt a little tactical in places.

Timmaay · 16-04-2014 2:16pm

Hmmm I'd be more of an 800 man but all this talk of a low 9s 3k is well tempting me, abit of smackdown talk and I'll be definitely up for it!

Stinker of a session lastnight, 1k in 3min pace, 2mins jog, 400m at 800pace, and 3 sets of them. I wanted to drop out so bad last k, but kept it up when I wasn't too far off pace at the 800split, well happy with it, great mental preparation. Very easy recovery jog tonight.

ecoli · 16-04-2014 2:28pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmmm I'd be more of an 800 man but all this talk of a low 9s 3k is well tempting me, abit of smackdown talk and I'll be definitely up for it!

Stinker of a session lastnight, 1k in 3min pace, 2mins jog, 400m at 800pace, and 3 sets of them. I wanted to drop out so bad last k, but kept it up when I wasn't too far off pace at the 800split, well happy with it, great mental preparation. Very easy recovery jog tonight.

Solid session

How do you find doing them early season? Always find them sort of sessions a struggle unless I am in great shape and am coming into a peak?

The Middle Distance Thread

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