Do You Find it Difficult Being Gay at Work?

JackTaylorFan · 22-01-2020 8:02am

gmisk wrote: »

Gay man described as 'f****t' by colleague awarded €27k over being harassed in workplace https://jrnl.ie/4973725

Can't believe any of yous are shocked by this, to be quite honest

splinter65 · 22-01-2020 8:09am

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

People treat me fine, until I inform them I'm trans. Then you get treated like a third class citizen.

If your a woman now then why don’t you just live like a woman?

JackTaylorFan · 22-01-2020 8:24am

splinter65 wrote: »

If your a woman now then why don’t you just live like a woman?

Do go on... I'm interested in this denial of my trans identity and why I should hide it

splinter65 · 22-01-2020 9:21am

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Do go on... I'm interested in this denial of my trans identity and why I should hide it

In what circumstances in a professional work setting do you feel obliged to share the fact that you used to be a man? I’m 40 years at work and I knew from early on that every single colleague has something quite big going on in their life
A family member or loved one in poor health or some other distress
Money problems
Relationship problems
Housing issues
Problems with kids
And people come to work primarily to earn a living as peacefully as they can.
They mix and mingle at break times and chat about current affairs, DWTS etc sports,
Most people know that if you have a personal issue that is stressing you so bad that you find it hard to function professionally that the best thing to do if at all possible is to take medical leave.
In the light of this I’m genuinely struggling to envisage a work situation where it’s ever necessary to say “I used to be a man”.
I genuinely would like to hear you on this?

JackTaylorFan · 22-01-2020 9:52am

splinter65 wrote: »

In what circumstances in a professional work setting do you feel obliged to share the fact that you used to be a man?

Sorry, I lost all respect for you and your opinion after this. I can smell the bigotry in your post it's that potent. Never was a man. But cheers.

Mattdhg · 22-01-2020 9:53am

Intentionally lying about one's trans past would not set a good precedent, imo. Could lead to a lot of anguish.

I'm a gay man, and find with random acquaintances and people on my outer most circle it's not worth the hassle of insisting "No, that girl you saw me with really is just a friend. I'm gay" as its a real mouthful, and then it's left hanging in the air. Whenever these situations arise with a friend who knows I'm gay they always think I'm doing myself a disservice by not acknowledging my homosexuality, and they're right. Its disquieting.

A trans person has gone through much longer and much more arduous struggles and obstacles. Suddenly keeping quiet about a large chunk of their life might make social encounters easier in the short term, but in the long term its destructive to their mental health.

splinter65 · 22-01-2020 10:47am

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Sorry, I lost all respect for you and your opinion after this. I can smell the bigotry in your post it's that potent. Never was a man. But cheers.

If this is your attitude then you have my deepest sympathy. I doubt if you ever have or had very much respect for anyone who doesn’t share your opinion which makes life as an adult very difficult. I’ve no interest myself in arguing with someone displaying such narrow mindedness and disregard for other people’s sensibilities so yeah, you’re dead right, cheers.

wakka12 · 22-01-2020 11:28am

splinter65 wrote: »

In what circumstances in a professional work setting do you feel obliged to share the fact that you used to be a man? I’m 40 years at work and I knew from early on that every single colleague has something quite big going on in their life
A family member or loved one in poor health or some other distress
Money problems
Relationship problems
Housing issues
Problems with kids
And people come to work primarily to earn a living as peacefully as they can.
They mix and mingle at break times and chat about current affairs, DWTS etc sports,
Most people know that if you have a personal issue that is stressing you so bad that you find it hard to function professionally that the best thing to do if at all possible is to take medical leave.
In the light of this I’m genuinely struggling to envisage a work situation where it’s ever necessary to say “I used to be a man”.
I genuinely would like to hear you on this?

Doesn't seem like your curiosity is genuine! It seems like you want to criticise and invalidate them for ever being open with their identity. Anyway what about work events or drinks or something? I hope for your sake in 40 years of work you've moved beyond sports talk at least once during your relationship with a colleague

machaseh · 22-01-2020 11:32am

I have never gotten much homophobia since I moved here from holland to ireland. In my previous job everybody knew I was gay and there were many other gay guys. No problems.

Now in my current job it was a bit more difficult. It's in it so only straight lads for the most part. Now I used to have a mslm colleague (morroccan) so I didnt really feel comfortable coming out.

After this colleague was fired (he was even put on an improvement plan for homophobia before that), I did tell my colleagues im gay and its absolutely grand.

splinter65 · 22-01-2020 12:36pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Doesn't seem like your curiosity is genuine! It seems like you want to criticise and invalidate them for ever being open with their identity. Anyway what about work events or drinks or something? I hope for your sake in 40 years of work you've moved beyond sports talk at least once during your relationship with a colleague

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

Goodshape · 22-01-2020 1:01pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work.

You’re being obtuse.

For a lot of us “work” is where we spend most of our lives.

“Work is work” is a ridiculous oversimplification. Work could be in a massive corporation where you sit behind a monitor and barely know the person sitting next to you. Fine. Why would you tell them anything? (Although at the same time, why wouldn’t or shouldn’t you?).

Work could also be you and 2, 5, or 10 other individuals interacting closely every day of the week.

It could be a family business. It could be a farm. It could be school. It could be any number of things.

We don’t all have the “luxury” (if you choose to see it as such) of being anonymous automatons from 9 to 5, 5 days a week.

Seamai · 22-01-2020 1:08pm

machaseh wrote: »

I have never gotten much homophobia since I moved here from holland to ireland. In my previous job everybody knew I was gay and there were many other gay guys. No problems.

Now in my current job it was a bit more difficult. It's in it so only straight lads for the most part. Now I used to have a mslm colleague (morroccan) so I didnt really feel comfortable coming out.

After this colleague was fired (he was even put on an improvement plan for homophobia before that), I did tell my colleagues im gay and its absolutely grand.

Are you saying that you didn't feel comfortable about coming out to the muslim guy?

ED E · 22-01-2020 1:11pm

@Elysium Big American tech firms can be a total friggin headwreck with stupid policies and dates in the wrong format but one thing they seem to do really well is LGBT awareness and generally accepting of "different". (As long as you don't want a union)

Maybe look at a place in a big player with a bigger office in your area.

Annasopra · 22-01-2020 10:19pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

Seriously? No-one ever their discussed their weddings, partners, children or family life in all your 40 years as an employee. That's hard to believe.

How bizarre your workplaces must be. Very odd.

eviltwin · 22-01-2020 11:32pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

Serious question, where do you work??

I can't imagine not know personal stuff about my colleagues. Even ones I'm not particularly close to I still know the basics like relationship status which means I know who is gay or straight. We are a team, we look out for each other and part of that is being aware of the highs and lows. Not sure how you'd even keep those kinds of things private anyway unless you literally only talk about the job.

machaseh · 23-01-2020 9:33am

Seamai wrote: »

Are you saying that you didn't feel comfortable about coming out to the muslim guy?

Indeed. He said negative things about LGBT before. He was put on a personal improvement plan for this too.

Seamai · 23-01-2020 10:59am

machaseh wrote: »

Indeed. He said negative things about LGBT before. He was put on a personal improvement plan for this too.

I wouldn't give someone like that an inch. While things might not be perfect here there has been an enormous leap forward here in attitudes towards the LGBT community from when I was a teenager and it's something that I'm very thankful for. The SSM referendum 5 years ago was a very good indicator of attitudes towards us from the general population, however during the campaign leading up to the referendum (which I had some involvement in) I came across some people who had moved here and due to their evangelical christian or muslim beliefs held pretty negative views towards LGBT people. These people came here for a better life, some would claim that they were fleeing persecution but yet think people like you and I are evil incarnate. They have to accept this is the way things are in a civilised western European country.

I also this that we have a duty to "educate" people and shatter many of the stereotypes that exist in relation to people like us. I'd like to think that some of the people I work with have a more positive attitude towards the LGBT community because of their contact with me.

23-01-2020 5:39pm

I can imagine it must be hard for people to come out in work but I do think that over recent years, it must be a lot easier than it used to be.

I can't remember the last place I worked where there wasn't at least 4 or 5 openly gay people there who were not treated in any way different. It's good to see.

This is some alt-right bull**** argument you're making

My goodness. That is absurd.

machaseh · 23-01-2020 6:03pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can imagine it must be hard for people to come out in work but I do think that over recent years, it must be a lot easier than it used to be.

I can't remember the last place I worked where there wasn't at least 4 or 5 openly gay people there who were not treated in any way different. It's good to see.

My goodness. That is absurd.

True and in general as a Dutch expat living here for two years I haven't experienced homophobic behavior from the Irish at all. This has been a positive experience for me in this regard .

Now if only there were a little bit more to do in the gay scene department hah. But no overall this is a grand place to live for LGBT folks.

Goodshape · 23-01-2020 6:19pm

MOD::

Okay, thread re-opened. Off-topic posts removed.

This thread is about being out in the workplace. Keep it on topic.

Seamai · 23-01-2020 8:16pm

machaseh wrote: »

True and in general as a Dutch expat living here for two years I haven't experienced homophobic behavior from the Irish at all. This has been a positive experience for me in this regard .

Now if only there were a little bit more to do in the gay scene department hah. But no overall this is a grand place to live for LGBT folks.

It's a sign of the times I'm afraid, hook up sites and apps coupled with relaxed attitudes means the need for gay venues has dropped dramatically, while I wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days, there are aspects of the gay scene that I sometimes miss but hey, we got what we wished for!

wakka12 · 23-01-2020 11:18pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

Colleague :Nice weekend wakka?
Wakka: Yeh lovely was up the country with the boyfriend.
Colleague: Oh you have a boyfriend?
Sexuality revealed in professional setting without specifically bringing up the topic, I dont think it takes a genius to see how a big part of somebody's life like their sexual identity becomes obvious once you get to know anything about them. Your workplace sounds horrendously impersonal even for the stereotypical soulless 9-5 corporate office job

rainbow kirby · 24-01-2020 3:59pm

Bi woman, have been out in pretty much any workplace I've been in, no issues. I have a bi pride Open Street Map sticker on my work laptop! I'm 35 and work in tech.

Butterface · 30-01-2020 8:07pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

What do you talk to your colleagues about during lunch? Or at the coffee machine? Or on a Friday afternoon when ye are all winding down and having the chats?

I can't imagine I'd have much of a relationship with my colleagues if my personal life didn't "spill over" into work..

Elysium1 · 31-01-2020 6:33pm

splinter65 wrote: »

What’s not genuine? I’m waiting for someone to suggest a professional workplace situation where the subject of a colleagues sexual identity is part of the normal discourse. Why would it be? Any more then anyone else’s personal issues are?
I can’t even see how it would come up at a “work event”. Work is work. Sometimes it’s necessary in a crisis to explain personal circumstances to work colleagues but I can’t see how my sexual identity would ever be a crisis situation.
It’s not a question of never moving beyond sports talk. It’s a question of setting necessary boundaries in order to respect people’s privacy. Of course there are occasions when a colleagues personal business may spill over into work but look, it’s work.

Ha I came back to report an update and found this view.

Well, just today my colleague asked me out blank "you're not gay, are you?". Yes, it's a professional work place as you refer.

So, my suspicions were correct. It wasn't 'misattribution' etc. A few of the other guys thought so and just kept a distance. Just great. I love work now.

Elysium1 · 31-01-2020 6:38pm

ED E wrote: »

@Elysium Big American tech firms can be a total friggin headwreck with stupid policies and dates in the wrong format but one thing they seem to do really well is LGBT awareness and generally accepting of "different". (As long as you don't want a union)

Maybe look at a place in a big player with a bigger office in your area.

I see. Yeah I have to say, there are a couple of out people at work, a trans woman, all religions and skin colours you can imagine, nationalities and the policies seem seriously taken. I apprecaite that. It really is a place of every kind of diversity I could imagine. That's really interesting.

I'm disappointed I have to say that my sexuality became a source of interest to the team at work. I work so hard, maximum effort, ideas, problem-solving, minimal errors, the exact opposite of some of my colleagues. It's disappointing to be reduced, judged or avoided based on who you're attracted to.

There's a new, bigger job going which I applied for internally. I wish I hadn't. I don't know now. Also now I fear being the diveristy hire. Working my ass off + great references and experience < diversity gay man.

Annasopra · 01-02-2020 9:21pm

Elysium1 wrote: »

I see. Yeah I have to say, there are a couple of out people at work, a trans woman, all religions and skin colours you can imagine, nationalities and the policies seem seriously taken. I apprecaite that. It really is a place of every kind of diversity I could imagine. That's really interesting.

I'm disappointed I have to say that my sexuality became a source of interest to the team at work. I work so hard, maximum effort, ideas, problem-solving, minimal errors, the exact opposite of some of my colleagues. It's disappointing to be reduced, judged or avoided based on who you're attracted to.

There's a new, bigger job going which I applied for internally. I wish I hadn't. I don't know now. Also now I fear being the diveristy hire. Working my ass off + great references and experience < diversity gay man.

I honestly think you would only be the "diversity hire" if you actively put something like LGBT volunteering on your cv. I don't understand this to be honest. If you have proved to be a hard worker then what's the problem.

Do You Find it Difficult Being Gay at Work?

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