Knock/Eirtrade thread

Manuel · 05-02-2020 3:12pm

747 visited Knock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzGW6XepzPY

When was there an A380 in Dublin, other than up the Liffey?

embraer170 · 05-02-2020 3:18pm

The A380 visiting Dublin was announced, but maybe it never went ahead?
https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/confirmed-worlds-largest-passenger-plane-set-to-land-in-dublin-35493548.html

05-02-2020 3:24pm

Flight now arriving Monday 10th at 1500, today is Wednesday ;-) so not arriving today.

GM228 · 05-02-2020 3:25pm

embraer170 wrote: »

There have been A380s in Dublin and Shannon before. But an A380 at an Irish regional airport, that would be quite something.

Only Shannon has had A380s.

hopeso · 05-02-2020 3:29pm

Is there any particular location at Knock to get a good view, for anyone going? It's years since I was there....

05-02-2020 4:01pm

hopeso wrote: »

Is there any particular location at Knock to get a good view, for anyone going? It's years since I was there....

Up by the water tower if its still there. Watched a BA jumbo come in from there before.

easypazz · 05-02-2020 4:10pm

Car99 wrote: »

Gatwick just added another A380 capable gate late last year for Emirates 380 so if the aircraft are coming the airports will accommodate them if the numbers add up.

That was probably in planning / construction for a number of years before that.

Its hard to see too many airports designing the A380 into any new infrastructure, as the number of airframes starts to decline.

If there are no fatal crashes between now and the end of service I wonder would it be the first large production carrier ever to not have that dubious honour.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-02-2020 6:25pm

easypazz wrote: »

If there are no fatal crashes between now and the end of service I wonder would it be the first large production carrier ever to not have that dubious honour.

A319 hasn't, and there's nearly 1500 of them in service, doing several cycles a day.

GM228 · 05-02-2020 6:46pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A319 hasn't, and there's nearly 1500 of them in service, doing several cycles a day.

There are a few types which have never had a fatality, or even a hull loss (there were 3 x A319 hull losses, but thankfully no fatalities).

Mostly newer types such as the 787s, neos, A340s, A350s etc, but older fleets such as the Boeing 717 for example has had no fatalities or hull losses, same as the Bombardier C Series variants.

Of the various older plane types which have had fatalities I think the 747-8 is the only sub series variant with no fatalities or hull losses.

circular flexing · 05-02-2020 6:55pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I was very recently reading an article on choosing flights and it was saying for economy seating, particularly long duration, your best bet was an A380. It's certainly would be my preference for a 12 hour flight. This is a retrograde step from the point of view of passenger comfort.

Why is economy A380 the best bet? Surely the comfort level depends on the airline trim.

Mebuntu · 05-02-2020 7:18pm

GM228 wrote: »

There are a few types which have never had a fatality, or even a hull loss (there were 3 x A319 hull losses, but thankfully no fatalities).

Mostly newer types such as the 787s, neos, A340s, A350s etc, but older fleets such as the Boeing 717 for example has had no fatalities or hull losses, same as the Bombardier C Series variants.

Of the various older plane types which have had fatalities I think the 747-8 is the only sub series variant with no fatalities or hull losses.

Air France tried to land a 340 in a thunderstorm in Toronto, overran and ended up in a ravine. No fatalities.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pASuwW6K9Ww/maxresdefault.jpg

GM228 · 05-02-2020 7:53pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

Air France tried to land a 340 in a thunderstorm in Toronto, overran and ended up in a ravine. No fatalities.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pASuwW6K9Ww/maxresdefault.jpg

Forgot about that one.

Tenger · 05-02-2020 8:08pm

embraer170 wrote: »

The A380 visiting Dublin was announced, but maybe it never went ahead?
https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/confirmed-worlds-largest-passenger-plane-set-to-land-in-dublin-35493548.html

That visit never happened. We had a flight number and an ETD but the Emirates manager (Enda Corneille) deleted the tweets without explanation about 5 days after posting the 3rd one and the aircraft was delivered straight to DXB. Thoughts at the time were that they couldnt spare the aircraft for a PR stunt.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A319 hasn't, and there's nearly 1500 of them in service, doing several cycles a day.

But the A319 is part of the wider A318/319/320/321 family.

cnocbui · 05-02-2020 8:50pm

circular flexing wrote: »

Why is economy A380 the best bet? Surely the comfort level depends on the airline trim.

https://www.traveller.com.au/airbus-a350-and-boeing-787-dreamliner-economy-class-seat-width-shrinks-h1l5sz

jamo2oo9 · 05-02-2020 8:53pm

Tenger wrote: »

That visit never happened. We had a flight number and an ETD but the Emirates manager (Enda Corneille) deleted the tweets without explanation about 5 days after posting the 3rd one and the aircraft was delivered straight to DXB. Thoughts at the time were that they couldnt spare the aircraft for a PR stunt.

It wasn't due to not having spare aircraft but rather Dublin not being able to handle the A380. A lot of work is required to make the taxiways and stands accessible for the aircraft. Not to mention, new equipment as well for catering, servicing etc.

If it was capable, Emirates would be using A380 daily.

GM228 · 05-02-2020 9:06pm

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

It wasn't due to not having spare aircraft but rather Dublin not being able to handle the A380. A lot of work is required to make the taxiways and stands accessible for the aircraft. Not to mention, new equipment as well for catering, servicing etc.

If it was capable, Emirates would be using A380 daily.

It was to come in and depart with no PAX as a publicity stunt, so there was no issues with landing, stabling and take off at Dublin.

Stovepipe · 06-02-2020 1:00am

Only parts of the taxiway system were capable of taking a loaded A380, at the time. Even aircraft like the A330 and 747 can cause problems in Dublin. Parts of the ramp have sunk under their weight, from time to time.

Hotblack Desiato · 06-02-2020 2:43am

Tenger wrote: »

But the A319 is part of the wider A318/319/320/321 family.

717 was cited earlier and it's part of the DC-9 family...

Connacht · 06-02-2020 7:54am

This would be something to see alright. But @GVHOT, if the aircraft has left the AF fleet, why would the Call Sign still be AFR375S?

EchoIndia · 06-02-2020 9:18am

Connacht wrote: »

This would be something to see alright. But @GVHOT, if the aircraft has left the AF fleet, why would the Call Sign still be AFR375S?

It can have left service but still be on the airline's books from a legal etc point of view. Far from uncommon.

Van.Bosch · 06-02-2020 9:53am

EchoIndia wrote: »

It can have left service but still be on the airline's books from a legal etc point of view. Far from uncommon.

Thought it was returned to a lessor though?

Manuel · 06-02-2020 11:03am

If you want to track it on FlightRadar, just track the reg F-HPJB.

I have an email alert setup in FlightAware for whenever a flight plan is filed for that reg .... just in case @GVHOT gets run over by a bus before Monday (God forbid) .....

Flight plan alert doesn't always work, but I set it up just in case.

Neworder79 · 06-02-2020 11:47am

embraer170 wrote: »

What wide-bodies has Knock seen before? I presume some Boeing 767s at various times.

They've had several wide-body charters (bar the bigger Airbuses). TriStar, DC8, 707s from US in early days.
Last 747 was a charter in 2003 and but mostly 757 and the odd 767.

---

Here is the last batch scrapped by Eirtrade at EIKN (2x737, 1x757).
I think one may have been acquired for fire training:

Board Walker · 06-02-2020 1:49pm

GM228 wrote: »

There are a few types which have never had a fatality, or even a hull loss (there were 3 x A319 hull losses, but thankfully no fatalities).

Mostly newer types such as the 787s, neos, A340s, A350s etc, but older fleets such as the Boeing 717 for example has had no fatalities or hull losses, same as the Bombardier C Series variants.

Of the various older plane types which have had fatalities I think the 747-8 is the only sub series variant with no fatalities or hull losses.

Didn't an Air France A340 skid off the back of a runway and get destroyed?

I'm sure an Ethihad A340 got wrote off during an engine test also....

hopeso · 06-02-2020 3:36pm

Neworder79 wrote: »

Here is the last batch scrapped by Eirtrade at EIKN (2x737, 1x757).
I think one may have been acquired for fire training:

Where was this photo taken from? Will it be possible to get a similar shot of the A380 when she arrives?

Van.Bosch · 06-02-2020 5:01pm

Not that it will be an issue but am I right that the A380 can land at Knock but the runway isn’t long enough for it to take off?

billy few mates · 06-02-2020 5:04pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

It can have left service but still be on the airline's books from a legal etc point of view. Far from uncommon.

It's normal to remain on the operator's AOC until delivery to it's final resting place and de-registration.
If the current operator took it off their AOC it would have to be transferred to another AOC or it wouldn't be allowed to fly.

Fritzbox · 06-02-2020 5:06pm

hopeso wrote: »

Where was this photo taken from?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56388143@N06/34072449256

Will it be possible to get a similar shot of the A380 when she arrives?

An Airbus A380? You'll be able to photograph it from Ballina.

Muahahaha · 06-02-2020 5:11pm

Mad that a plane is getting scrapped after just 10 years in service. Anyone got any insight into the breaking process and where it goes? What happens things like the cockpit and all instruments, seats, etc? Would there be a collectors/enthusiasts market for those? Or perhaps film companies creating an airplane set.

And the wings, I presume these are just crushed and recycled but (in theory) could they be re-purposed as turbine blades for wind farms?

Neworder79 · 06-02-2020 5:25pm

hopeso wrote: »

Where was this photo taken from? Will it be possible to get a similar shot of the A380 when she arrives?

Taken from the the hangar on apron B (purple pin) which you can drive to unless they restrict the access road.
But given it's size it would be easily visible from the local road and the main Terminal building viewing lounge.

marcos_94 · 06-02-2020 5:28pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Mad that a plane is getting scrapped after just 10 years in service. Anyone got any insight into the breaking process and where it goes? What happens things like the cockpit and all instruments, seats, etc? Would there be a collectors/enthusiasts market for those? Or perhaps film companies creating an airplane set.

And the wings, I presume these are just crushed and recycled but (in theory) could they be re-purposed as turbine blades for wind farms?

Id assume that considering theres still a couple of hundred still flying, the majority of parts will be sold as spares

dzilla · 06-02-2020 5:59pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Mad that a plane is getting scrapped after just 10 years in service. Anyone got any insight into the breaking process and where it goes? What happens things like the cockpit and all instruments, seats, etc? Would there be a collectors/enthusiasts market for those? Or perhaps film companies creating an airplane set.

And the wings, I presume these are just crushed and recycled but (in theory) could they be re-purposed as turbine blades for wind farms?

I imagine the airplane equivalent of https://partfinder.ie/

Davidth88 · 06-02-2020 6:03pm

Aircraft goes into parts.

Each part will be certified etc.

My brother delivers aircraft parts in the UK, one of the main places he picks up from is Staverton where all sorts are broken up.

selectamatic · 06-02-2020 6:12pm

The weather isn't really promised to be that great early next week around the NW so I'd not be surprised to see the flight rescheduled.

L1011 · 06-02-2020 6:41pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

And the wings, I presume these are just crushed and recycled but (in theory) could they be re-purposed as turbine blades for wind farms?

They would not be in any way suitable for that.

06-02-2020 8:11pm

Sorry folks, now the 14th at 1500. With a flight test out of Dresden on the 11th.

Staff at the airport are aware there is an A380 due in so there must be some truth to the story.

Stovepipe · 06-02-2020 9:09pm

they strip out every part that can be overhauled as there is a huge market for hydraulic actuators,pumps,valves, instruments, galleys, usable wiring harnesses,undercarriage parts, wheels and brakes, galleys, doors, slides, fuel pumps, fuel tanks, pipes and ducts and a host of other bug and small parts and only when it is a skeleton,will they break it down with a digger's bucket. The scrap will be seperated into steel/aluminium/titanium/tungsten/plasticsand so on 'til all that remains is an oil stain and even that will be cleaned up. Some of the big scrapping centres even have their own furnaces so the alloys can be turned into ingots as quickly as they can feed the stuff in. Collectors and simulator builders can usually reserve parts in advance on breakers' websites.

Muahahaha · 06-02-2020 9:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

They would not be in any way suitable for that.

Economics aside what would exclude them, the shape of a wing or the weight being too heavy? Is there any cross over at all in the engineering considerations of an aircraft wing vs a turbine blade, would have thought both need to be light weight metals that can withstand huge wind forces. Thats as far as my engineering nous goes though

L1011 · 06-02-2020 9:45pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Economics aside what would exclude them, the shape of a wing or the weight being too heavy? Is there any cross over at all in the engineering considerations of an aircraft wing vs a turbine blade, would have thought both need to be light weight metals that can withstand huge wind forces. Thats as far as my engineering nous goes though

Everything.

Shape. Size. Weight. Aerodynamics.

They're two totally different things that look slightly similar.

Also, theres ~480 A380 wings in existance in totality. There are about 1000 turbines 3 blades each in Ireland alone. It wouldn't be worth the effort to try adapt them.

cycling is fun · 06-02-2020 9:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry folks, now the 14th at 1500. With a flight test out of Dresden on the 11th.

Staff at the airport are aware there is an A380 due in so there must be some truth to the story.

Hi can I ask how you know this? I contacted Knock yesterday via messanger on facebook and they said that had no fixed date as of yet. I live 1 hour from Knock and would be interested in travelling over to see it. I contacted eirtrade and have got no reply back from them yet

can I ask how you came to find out?

cnocbui · 06-02-2020 9:56pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Economics aside what would exclude them, the shape of a wing or the weight being too heavy? Is there any cross over at all in the engineering considerations of an aircraft wing vs a turbine blade, would have thought both need to be light weight metals that can withstand huge wind forces. Thats as far as my engineering nous goes though

I'd imagine an A380 wing would be designed for an airspeed of 533 kn, while a wind turbine blade would be designed for roughly one tenth of that. Also notable is the significant twist in a wind turbine blade due to the considerable difference in airspeed between the fast moving tip and the slower bit nearer the hub.

jamo2oo9 · 06-02-2020 11:02pm

L1011 wrote: »

Everything.

Shape. Size. Weight. Aerodynamics.

They're two totally different things that look slightly similar.

Also, theres ~480 A380 wings in existance in totality. There are about 1000 turbines 3 blades each in Ireland alone. It wouldn't be worth the effort to try adapt them.

Not even that, the material. Wind turbines are predominately made of steel. The aircraft itself is made of aluminium alloys (contains other metals like carbon or iron etc). Not really worth their weight to be made into wind turbines.

cnocbui · 06-02-2020 11:31pm

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Not even that, the material. Wind turbines are predominately made of steel. The aircraft itself is made of aluminium alloys (contains other metals like carbon or iron etc). Not really worth their weight to be made into wind turbines.

Wind turbine blades are not made of steel. They are predominantly made of composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber, like the wings of sailplanes 40 years ago..

07-02-2020 12:24am

cycling is fun wrote: »

Hi can I ask how you know this? I contacted Knock yesterday via messanger on facebook and they said that had no fixed date as of yet. I live 1 hour from Knock and would be interested in travelling over to see it. I contacted eirtrade and have got no reply back from them yet

can I ask how you came to find out?

Pretty much like everyone else, you build up sources over time some are ok and some are great. This source is accurate 99% of the time and it isn’t their fault if something falls through for the 1%. But like I always say to people, take every rumour with a health warning. For multiple reasons things fall through. Even up to the last minute with weather or tech issues.

As others have said set up a warning on FR24 for its movement. If it is inbound Knock from Dresden you will get 2-3 hours warning.

Tenger · 07-02-2020 12:25am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Mad that a plane is getting scrapped after just 10 years in service. Anyone got any insight into the breaking process and where it goes? What happens things like the cockpit and all instruments, seats, etc? Would there be a collectors/enthusiasts market for those? Or perhaps film companies creating an airplane set.

And the wings, I presume these are just crushed and recycled but (in theory) could they be re-purposed as turbine blades for wind farms?

Many parts are very valuable; engines, landing gear, flaps, doors. (For use as spares for flying A380s)
Cockpit can be repurposed as a sim, but I doubt that is really in high demand for the A380.
Seats can be reinstalled on other aircraft.

The aircraft is stripped down before flying off, (interior fittings), upon landing any valuable equipment (doors, flaps, engines, gear, cockpit etc) is taken off.
At that point its an empty meyal tube with 2 sticky out bits. The fuselage is essentially chopped into 3-4 metre sections with a giant chain (A380 may have its own issues though) then crushed for use as raw metal.

Charles Babbage · 07-02-2020 12:29am

Presumably there is no market for conversion into a freighter?

Spocker · 07-02-2020 12:32am

cnocbui wrote: »

Wind turbine blades are not made of steel. They are predominantly made of composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber, like the wings of sailplanes 40 years ago..

Which makes them really hard to recycle apparently, so they are just buried

hopeso · 07-02-2020 1:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty much like everyone else, you build up sources over time some are ok and some are great. This source is accurate 99% of the time and it isn’t their fault if something falls through for the 1%. But like I always say to people, take every rumour with a health warning. For multiple reasons things fall through. Even up to the last minute with weather or tech issues.

As others have said set up a warning on FR24 for its movement. If it is inbound Knock from Dresden you will get 2-3 hours warning.

Thanks for the info so far.... Needless to say, keep us informed.

kevinandrew · 07-02-2020 4:41am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Presumably there is no market for conversion into a freighter?

No, the A380's large size is appealing but its design makes it near impossible.

While the A380 could theoretically fit 60% more cargo volume than a typical 747 freighter, it's maximum take off weight is only around 30% more so it would max out well before it was completely full and end up flying around empty space.

Also, the design of the aircraft isn't ideal for cargo. The 747F has a high cockpit positioned on the upper deck which allowed for a cargo nose door, this enabled large cargo to be loaded quickly. The A380 cockpit is awkwardly located in the middle of its two floors making it impossible to convert. It also has a complex upper deck floor which would likely need reinforcing along with new loading equipment to reach it at every airport.

marcos_94 · 07-02-2020 8:56am

Spocker wrote: »

Which makes them really hard to recycle apparently, so they are just buried

They can be difficult to recycle but the main reason they are buried now is because there is no profitable market for recycling just yet

Knock/Eirtrade thread

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