Do you know any transgender people?

glomar wrote: »

working in a job .. there was a MTF trans . Huge building .. women didnt want him ( her ) using the womens bathroom . this is a company that boasts pride etc .. anyway made her use the disabled toilets .. as there women objected to her using theirs

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But I didn’t say I wouldn’t want to know someone based upon the fact that they are transgender? I don’t know whether your misinterpretation of what I said was intentional or not, but given what you’ve posted I have no reason to think you’re misinterpreting what I said with malicious intent, unlike the bould Danny there who is spewing bigoted crap at a rate of knots while trying to condemn other people for their hypocrisy and prejudices :pac:

It is prejudice, and I know it is, but as I said earlier, what matters as far as I’m concerned is whether or not a person’s prejudices cause them to act with malicious intent towards another person, and in Danny’s case when he asked me about my other, what I would consider to be unrelated beliefs, I didn’t perceive any malicious intent in the question so I didn’t mind answering it honestly. Had I known then that he would use that information to further his own prejudice and bigotry, I’d simply have informed him that the question was irrelevant to the discussion. Would I see myself as having anything in common with Danny? Nope, and on that basis I wouldn’t want anything further to do with him, because quite simply he’d wreck my bulb.

Same principle applies to people who are transgender as far as I’m concerned - we don’t have anything in common, and I don’t know how you can maintain I’m not judging on one individual attribute when that’s exactly what I’m doing - the individual attribute we’re discussing here being that they are transgender.

I don’t pretend not to understand why I’m supposed to pretend that I believe a person is the sex I know they aren’t - it’s precisely to alleviate their discomfort with how they perceive themselves. I’m expected to pretend that I’m the person who is experiencing gender dysphoria because I don’t perceive them to be the sex they wish me to perceive them to be? There’s a term for that - gaslighting. In case there is any doubt as to the understanding of what I mean by the term, it’s this -


Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's belief.


In no other context that I’m aware of, would such behaviour on the part of the perpetrators be tolerated, and I don’t see any reason for tolerating such behaviour from anyone, particularly when it’s express purpose is so that the perpetrator can feel better about themselves that they have managed to undermine their victims perception and have them questioning whether or not they are mentally disordered. I would be prejudiced against anyone, any individual who would attempt to use such tactics, regardless of whatever characteristics were under discussion, and I certainly wouldn’t want to associate myself with them in any way, on any level.

Does that imply that I would not want to be friends with someone who is transgender? That’s only one of many possible logical conclusions if your own prejudices lead you to believe that I would act with malicious intent towards another person. The other possible logical conclusion is that I don’t have any issues whatsoever with anyone experiencing gender dysphoria, and that I would have no malicious intent towards another person on that basis. If I perceive that they had the malicious intent to try and undermine my perception, then, we’re talking about something else entirely, because then the fact that they’re transgender is irrelevant, it’s the fact that they’re attempting to gaslight me into questioning my own perceptions and my own sanity and implying that I am the person who is mentally disordered. I don’t appreciate anyone fcuking with my mind like that.





Danny in another unsurprising display of your own hypocrisy and bigotry, you’re in no position to lecture anyone on bigotry and hypocrisy, and you’re especially in no position to lecture anyone on empathy when you yourself are clearly unfamiliar with the difference between empathy and ego. Your “empathy” for other people is entirely based upon your own ego - they have to think like you do or you cannot “empathise” with them. That’s not empathy, it’s ego. I’m in the fortunate position at least that I don’t need what you consider empathy, I don’t need to kiss your arse, basically, thankfully. I have no doubt though you’ll have no shortage of arse kissers, I just wouldn’t want to be one of them.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You have that arseways Danny. I didn’t ask anyone for any scientific evidence whatsoever. Even in my earlier response to klaaaz, I suggested that more [i]research[/i] was necessary before putting forward medical and surgical treatments as the only possible treatments to alleviate gender dysphoria.

Your question is still irrelevant, because it’s predicated upon your own prejudiced perception of people who experience gender dysphoria - that they think just like you do! You’d shìt the bed if you ever met a person who is experiencing gender dysphoria who is also religious, also conservative, and yet one of the most famous people who are transgender is themselves both religious and conservative - Caitlyn Jenner, who is on record as saying that it was harder for her to come out as Republican than it was to come out as transgender.

And she is by no means the only person who is transgender, religious and conservative, there are many people who share these characteristics, yet because of your own prejudices, and your ego, you could only ever possibly empathise with those people who share your political and social beliefs, which I gather if you were leaning any more towards the progressive left, you’d fall over.

One of the defining characteristics of people who share your beliefs is that they are always trying to out-do each other in terms of how progressive they want other people to believe they are, and how empathetic they are with people who they really have no understanding of whatsoever, because their social activism is entirely based upon stroking their own ego, and having their ego stroked by other people who think just like them.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Again Danny, entirely based upon your own prejudices, you inferred from my post that I could only be referring to scientific research. There are many types of research, including but not limited to -





I took it from here, underlining the most relevant part -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research

I use Wikipedia because it’s generally handy as a jumping off point when conducting research, but as klaaaz notes it is an entirely voluntary community effort so one has to be careful about individuals introducing their own prejudices there too.





You what now? Care to explain what this is about then -





It sure as hell meets your own standards for, as you put it, Sherlock Holmes stuff around 'people like me' is embarrassing and really not worth replying to as we both know its just emotion [anger] masked as logic/fact.





Where in the sentence you highlighted did I say that medical and surgical procedures are the ONLY option available to treat gender dysphoria? I said that -

Even in my earlier response to klaaaz, I suggested that more research was necessary before putting forward medical and surgical treatments as the only possible treatments to alleviate gender dysphoria.

Because there is the perception for some people that these are the only treatments for gender dysphoria, and when they’re reading on a website maintained by the HSE that hasn’t been updated in years, that one of the outcomes of medical or surgical treatments is that they can change their sex, it’s giving people a false impression that by availing of medical or surgical treatments, they can change their sex and therefore alleviate their gender dysphoria.

This is just not possible, and for people experiencing gender dysphoria, their expectations need to be managed with greater care and more responsibility than is currently being offered to them by the HSE and some advocates of medical and surgical transition who are pressuring vulnerable people who are already experiencing difficulties with their mental health, to demand these treatments for themselves.

It’s highly irresponsible on the part of these people who are pushing for medical and surgical treatments to alleviate gender dysphoria at the expense of people’s lives who they don’t appear to give a damn about as long as those people conform to their beliefs.

There is considerable controversy among people who consider themselves to be members of the transgender community over these issues, with some people perjoratively referring to people who do not share their beliefs as truscum, based upon their beliefs about, well, transmedicalism.


I wouldn’t care to pick sides among that lot, but you knock yourself out there deciding which side is the greater victim you can empathise with :pac: