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Friend's question - crossing the line?

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  • 25-04-2019 6:31pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    A 2 part back story first:

    1) Was best buddys with 'Johhny' since my teens (now both in 50's) - we had a fight about 10 years ago and never spoke again till about 2 years ago, been out for a drink about a dozen times zince then with mutual friends.

    2) Was in LTR until a few months ago, ex has a teen daughter.

    Right so, we were in the pub at the weekend, I related a story concerning the ex's daughter (can't remember how convo got that way). So I finish my very amusing story, and johhny asks me did I fancy the daughter. I of course said no, and he asks again.

    Johhny likes to stir things up, we just shrug and think, that's Johhny.

    Having had 2 pints at the time I did not think much of it, but now I'm mulling it over. Was that acceptable pub banter, or was some weird line crossed?


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    #2
    fineso.mom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭fineso.mom


    1. Johnny sounds like an eejit.
    2. It's up to you to decide whether it was acceptable or not.


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    #3
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Some lads just can't hear stories involving women without thinking "Waaaaayyy...but did ye ride her?" I work with all women and there are lads I know who I just can't tell a simple work story to because it'll inevitably turn into me having to justify why I'm talking to a woman without trying to have sex with her. I doubt there's anything more to it than that.

    Is it acceptable pub banter? Well it's more **** pub banter than anything else, but whether it's over the line or not is really up to you.


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    #4
    zapper55
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    He sounds like an idiot. I'd stay away from someone that likes to stir things up.


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    #5
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    He is in his 50s and he likes to stir things up?

    Sounds like you were better off during the no contact time with him tbh.


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    #6
    Necro
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    leggo wrote:
    Some lads just can't hear stories involving women without thinking "Waaaaayyy...but did ye ride her?" I work with all women and there are lads I know who I just can't tell a simple work story to because it'll inevitably turn into me having to justify why I'm talking to a woman without trying to have sex with her. I doubt there's anything more to it than that.

    Not just women, but men, inanimate objects - basically anything!

    It annoys me personally that some of my own mates can't have a normal conversation without turning it into a smut fest.

    If it bothers you OP just do what I do, limit the amount of interactions you have with Johnny (or replace Johnny for two mates of mine in particular) and just ignore the stupid 'macho' nonsense.


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    #7
    Yermande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 115 ✭✭Yermande


    It sounds like the type of idiotic thing that gets said in every pub, every day.

    You'd do yourself a great disservice by ending the friendship based on advice received on here.

    You know this person, surely you know what his fundamental values. None of the contributors on here have the benefit of that context.

    Saying that people shouldn't be 'stirring things up'? in their 50s. Give me a break. My best friend is the biggest gangster going in that regard. He's liable to say anything, usually without any degree of forethought whatsoever. He's the self-appointed obnoxious pig of our group and if I recalled one or two choice anecdotes I'm sure people on here would be telling me to ditch him.

    And yet he'd also walk through a brick wall for his friends and is the most loving, generous person I know. He's currently over in Laos building a school, at enormous personal cost to himself I should add, and just last week he sent us a drunken WhatsApp of himself crying and angry over the poverty he's encountered. A big, politically-incorrect oaf of a man with a heart of gold.

    Maybe your friend is the same. Maybe not. That's for you to decide.


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    #8
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    If it was meant as an off-colour joke that's one thing. If he was serious then I think it's really creepy and unnerving. I say this as someone with virtually no boundaries as to what can count as humour.

    It's up to you what crosses a line but it sounds like it already has for you and thats fair.

    Johnny sounds like a moron to be honest.


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    #9
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    I think the "weird line" in this regard is the age of the 'teen' daughter. Major difference between riling you up about fancying an 18/19 year old, which is creepy and leery yet to this guy, his brand of laddish banter, and you fancying a 14/15 year old which is entirely inappropriate i.e. "Fancy her? FFS, She's 15 ya daft prick".


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    #10
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,018 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    The weird thing to me in reading this is that I assume OP you had some sort of fatherly presence in the girl's life having been in a LTR with her mother? Creepy suggestion from him regardless of her age, IMO.


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    #11
    oLoonatic
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭oLoonatic


    ~This is johnny, he likes to make inappropriate jokes,
    ~Johnny is an idiot
    ~Don't be like Johnny.


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    #12
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Of course it's inappropriate to ask if you fancy your ex's teenage daughter.

    To ask once might have counted as off-colour banter, but it's significant that he asked a second time after you said "no." He was pressing the issue, trying to embarrass you in front of your friends. Even worse, you and this woman have recently broken up. He may have been insinuating that your relationship ended because you developed inappropriate feelings for her daughter.

    If I had to speculate, I'd say "Johnny" is still holding a grudge over the fight you had 10 years ago. He is having a go at you, but in such a way that he can defend his malicious intent as "pub banter."

    Johnny is a dick. He is not your friend. You have nothing to gain by socializing with him, and it might be best just to avoid him from now on.


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    #13
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi thanks for all the replies. Given that I'm posting as a guest, it seems to take a few hours for posts to appear (which is understandable, mods) so I'll try to reply to all here

    All -Yes Johhny can be an ejit/di*k/idiot etc no question of that!

    Yermande - yes, I do think it's a pity to end our renewed friendship over that. He has been very good in the past (before 10 years ago)... but, see below

    valoren - 18/19

    miamee - yes i think creepy too, hence my post

    Vox Nihili - "If I had to speculate, I'd say "Johnny" is still holding a grudge over the fight you had 10 years ago. He is having a go at you, but in such a way that he can defend his malicious intent as "pub banter." - mmm unfortunately, I think you could be right. Now that I think of it, 2 years ago when we had our first 1 or 2 drinks after the row, he did get a few little digs in.

    And he did ask twice (in the same occasion, like, i sanr no, he said are you sure or something to that effect).


    I'll give this some further thought, leaning towards cutting him loose.


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    #14
    misshaversham
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭misshaversham


    It was a question from a man who probably has never had an ex with a teenage daughter. A bit out there but nothing intrinsically wrong with asking.

    You know the bigger story. Did you feel belittled in any way?

    Its about more than what people say or do. Trust how you feel around someone.


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    #15
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Augme


    Inappropriate but I wouldn't have an issue with it myself. But then again group dynamics play a big part here. In my group getting digs in and pushing the boundaries would be fairly common so no one would take issue with it.

    If this is or hasnt been the situation with yous in the past then chances are he is still holding a grudge over the issue yous had 10 years ago.

    I find it quite odd that yous would have reconciled after 10 years of no contact and would start hanging out again.


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    #16
    rondog
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭rondog


    Perfectly normal banter as far as im concerned.

    It depends on the level of Banter in your friend group and how familiar /tolerant they are of Non PC topics.

    id brush it off and forget all about it.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Johnny is a bit of an eejit but I suspect you're fairly happy to take offense and use it to justify 'falling out' with him again.

    You are completely over-reacting because of whatever's causing your sensitivity to what he's joking about, or you're just looking for an excuse or a justification to 'drop him' as you say.

    You're in your 50's. The 1970's-1980's Irish schoolyard should have set you up to be able to handle this stuff. It's alright if you don't like him or don't want to be pals. You don't have to be. But he didn't actually do anything wrong or bad here, so don't be trying to act like he did.


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    #18
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,028 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    If that's the kind of tripe that blokes spout in a pub these days, then I'm glad I don't frequent them.
    Find new friends or find a new hobby.

    To thine own self be true



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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    If that's the kind of tripe that blokes spout in a pub these days, then I'm glad I don't frequent them.
    Find new friends or find a new hobby.

    Would you ever get over yourself! The way some people overreact to these things is bizarre. Do ye live in some kind of bubble, unaware of how some people find humour in asking people things like what the OP and you decide is offensive? It’s a few men having pints in a pub and one of them poked fun in a bit of a bad-taste jest. Really lads, would ye ever cop on the yourselves.


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    #20
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,028 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    JayZeus wrote: »
    Would you ever get over yourself! The way some people overreact to these things is bizarre. Do ye live in some kind of bubble, unaware of how some people find humour in asking people things like what the OP and you decide is offensive? It’s a few men having pints in a pub and one of them poked fun in a bit of a bad-taste jest. Really lads, would ye ever cop on the yourselves.

    It shows the maturity level of the guy who said it, that's what I'm saying.

    To thine own self be true



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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    It shows the maturity level of the guy who said it, that's what I'm saying.

    For two men in their 50’s, maturity is a moot point.

    It’s a bad ‘joke’ in poor taste by one guy.

    It’s choosing to take offense to it after the fact by another.

    It may have been out of line, but IMO that’s really only true if the question was intended as a genuine enquiry as opposed to a bit of teasing over a few pints with some pals.


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    #22
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Mod note:

    That's enough back and forth please. Replies should be directed towards the OP.

    Thanks


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    #23
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Sorry, just getting back now.

    Augme - we "reconciled after 10 years" via mutual friends, and, as I said in the OP, I only see him every few months since then. And also he lives across the road from my mam so I bumped into him many times over the years.


    JayZeus - "but I suspect you're fairly happy to take offense and use it to justify 'falling out' with him again" - nothing further from the truth. At my age it is very hard to make friends so not looking to loose them. But. as I said in response to another poster, he has gotten in a few digs over the last 2 years, so it seems he is not willing to forget about the past events.

    And I should point out, it was not just the 'lads' there that night, it was mixed company.


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    #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    oddquestion wrote: »
    And I should point out, it was not just the 'lads' there that night, it was mixed company.

    Fair enough then - in that context he’s bang out of order. Tell him, no pints on the table, then decide what to do based on how he reacts. If he says he was only joking, let him know that sort of thing isn’t alright in future and if he can’t give his word and stick to it to lay off on the cheap digs and crass ‘humour’, you won’t have anything to do with him. Let him show you if he’s a friend or just an eejit to be ignored.


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    #25
    devlinio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 172 ✭✭devlinio


    If this woman was in her 20s and not like your step child, it might be ok. But it was a comment made about a teenager, who I assumed you were a father figure for at one point in your life. It's not on IMO, even as banter.


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    #26
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    It doesn't really matter what anyone here thinks of the comments. You don't like them and you're not this guy's biggest fan either. It's for the best if you relegate him to being an acquaintance. One you'd rather not talk to unless you have to.


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