The Irish language

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

I love the Irish language and wish I could speak more of it. We should be proud of it.

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

Is English taught any better?

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

It's mind boggling how kids can be "taught" a language for so long and still most of them emerge with only a few phrases, myself included. I studied french for way less time than that and can understand most stuff, am able to hold a conversation and get by on holiday without using English. Id even be more proficient in Spanish than irish and I only did that for junior cert. I mean, how is that even possible? How have they not realised that the teaching methods need an overhaul by this stage?

rather the time would be spent on useful languages (or classes e.g. Coding) in the real world, ie Spanish/French/german/even Chinese

Maybe, if only to stop people harping on it about an official langauge and therefore we should whatever whatever whatever whatever.

Ultimately, it's a lot like that religion/penis joke: ok to have, nice to be proud of, but you don;t want to go around waving it in people's faces to make yourself fell good.

Lennox Tender Farmhouse wrote: »

rather the time would be spent on useful languages (or classes e.g. Coding) in the real world, ie Spanish/French/german/even Chinese

Ah look, that oul' lazy chestnut gets wheeled out fairly regularly.




Most people who go through secondary school learn a European language.


Fuck all practical use it ever is to them




Doesn't make learning it a waste of time though




And coding me hole. Waste of time unless you're going to work at something that needs it. Handy to have a rudimentary knowledge for some roles but otherwise it doesn't add a whole lot practically. It's still good to learn it though even if you don't use it. Same as the Irish language

Hector Bellend wrote: »

At least people use computers

Different strokes for different folks as you well know, Hector me boyo!

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

About a billion euro a year's worth. Think of what we could usefully do with that money.

Could buy another 30 Thornton Halls for that for feck sake.

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.

When I was in primary school, right up until 6th class I remember that when the teachers wanted to talk to each other in front of the students they would talk in Irish. These teachers who had spent 8 years "teaching" us this language were 100% confident that they could speak to each other in front of a whole class and know we wouldn't understand them. It just goes to show the level of bull**** charade they whole system is.

My abiding memory of learning languages in school was that French seemed fun and interesting and Irish was the exact opposite. Even though we probably spent as much time in French learning verbs and all the nuts and bolts of the language, it feels like we mostly learned how to do conversational stuff and how to be able to get by as an exchange student or tourist. A lot of it was about asking directions to the train station, reading menus, etc etc. In 1990's Ireland, it was all very exotic.

Whereas with Irish, probably like many others, we had a dried up old prune who had been waaaaay too long teaching teenagers, despised her job, never smiled and made learning as confrontational and horrible as possible. To compound this the curriculum seemed to be about the most tiresome aspects of Irish culture. We were passed the Peig days by that stage, but it was still very tedious stuff for the most part.

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

How is it taught in schools?

That a serious question or did you not grow up here...?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the later: it's taught as a school subject, by rote and with too much emphasis on stories and poems, and not as a language with emphasis on communication and conversation. Consequently, people learn it for the sole reason of enhancing their chances of a particular third level course (which will, more often than not, have anything to do with the language) and many drop all interest or care for it upon achieving said goal.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Public sector unions and special interests. Look at the protests of 2011 when Fine Gael tried to making it optional for the Leaving Cert.

Same thing is happening right now with religion. They're terrified that large numbers of students will opt out if they can do another subject instead.

Agricola wrote: »

My abiding memory of learning languages in school was that French seemed fun and interesting and Irish was the exact opposite. Even though we probably spent as much time in French learning verbs and all the nuts and bolts of the language, it feels like we mostly learned how to do conversational stuff and how to be able to get by as an exchange student or tourist. A lot of it was about asking directions to the train station, reading menus, etc etc. In 1990's Ireland, it was all very exotic.

Whereas with Irish, probably like many others, we had a dried up old prune who had been waaaaay too long teaching teenagers, despised her job, never smiled and made learning as confrontational and horrible as possible. To compound this the curriculum seemed to be about the most tiresome aspects of Irish culture. We were passed the Peig days by that stage, but it was still very tedious stuff for the most part.

Don't worry about it. Plenty of people like to blame others for their own limitations and failings.

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's quite simple really
The state has an obligation and responsibility to provide a decent and broad education for children.

That doesn't mean that it has to provide a bespoke set of choices that can change on a daily basis on the whims of a 12 year old.

The state sets a curriculum. Then it implements it. Should there be mandatory subjects on it? I would strongly say "yes". Most rational people would say "of course".

Your idealistic model of allowing each and every child to set their own choices of what they want to study is scutter.

First point - yes. My point entirely.
I'm thinking more 15 rather than 12. At which point students know a bit more. And the certainly know what they don't want to learn and wht will be a waste of their time. And they state does provide choices at 12. I choose four subjects at 12. And another four at 15.
Three - generally speaking, what are the benefits to a 15 ear old student of mandatory subjects? Generally - as per your point - not with specific subjects.
Four - ad homeinum, dismissed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Four - ad homeinum, dismissed.

You might want to look up the definition of "ad homeinum" (sic)


You said that the students should be allowed to choose



I said that that model is scutter. I stand over that and you have not attempted to refute it on any practical level.




You always hear people moaning on about having to learn Irish. It's usually people whose, lets just say, choices in life might not have led them to where they thought they were entitled to be. They way they go on you'd think that if they had had an hour a week of Chinese, Spanish and Java instead of three hours of Irish that they'd have turned that D in pass level Biology to an A and gone on to cure cancer.

We should look at how the Welsh revived their own language. They must be doing something right.

If you ever watch the Welsh language channel s4c when a soccer or rugby match is on, they interview the players in Welsh and they are all fluent speakers. We'd struggle to find 1 or 2 to do the same.

A Scottish rugby player John Barclay played down in Wales for a club for just 3 or 4 years. On leaving to go back to Scotland he mentioned how his own kids were fluent in Welsh, having attended a Welsh speaking school.

Our only hope for the language is for Gaelscoileanna to expand further and have more and more people coming out fluent.

I do feel too much emphasis is put on the school system.

Why do we not have more clubs, social meetups and other events run through the language.

Every gaa club could look to train one grade of their kids through Irish, e.g. all u12 kids to be coached through the Irish language on a non obligatory basis with the club being funded for its efforts.

Why do we not fund art classes and other evening classes to be run through the Irish language for kids and adults. Maybe a 50/50 buy in where the system funds half and the community/individuals pay the other half.

I'd love to have the opportunity to speak the language more, but outside of formal lesson type set ups. It would be lovely to have the opportunity to do outdoor activities but through Irish, a walk in the countryside, kayaking, cycling etc.

removed2 wrote: »

Tá sé an teanga is go háillinn sa domhain

Is é