Minority of British Citizens want NI to remain part of the United Kingdom

Thomas__. · 28-03-2018 3:12pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's certainly great news. i have said for a long time now that britain doesn't want northern ireland. i can't see that this new revelation will bring unification closer though, unfortunately.

This is clear to everyone who has dealt with NI politics for years but maybe the downfall of the DUP will bring unification closer, when they get the boot for pushing for a hard Brexit. Maybe then some U/L dinosaurs will finally wake up and realise what they have done to them, more so when the wishful-thinking-golden-post-Brexit era turns out to be an utter nightmare. The majority in NI voted for remain in the Brexit Ref, but as usual, the will of the majority of the People means nothing to the DUP at all and they should get what they deserve for that, one day in the future and this is to be sent into political oblivion for good.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-03-2018 7:00pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Can a PSNI officer just be given a Garda uniform and told he/she is now part of a different force?

Would these be the same RUC officers who were given PSNI uniforms a while back ?

Policing is similar, arrest them first on suspicion and then figure out what to charge them with later.

What did they do in Germany on reunification ?

You could make NI a autonomous province with it's own rules, like the way it, like Scotland have some different rules to England.

Sleepy · 29-03-2018 10:38am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would these be the same RUC officers who were given PSNI uniforms a while back ?

Policing is similar, arrest them first on suspicion and then figure out what to charge them with later.

Rather different to change the uniforms of a police service enforcing the same set of laws to one enforcing a completely different legal system. I'm sure it's possible, but it would be an expensive, and lengthy process.

I love how the Sinn Fein fantasists just expect the rest of the country to accept the unification of our country with a basket-case as the "end game" simply because that's what they say it is.

The only time Ireland has ever been "unified" was when it was a part of the British Empire so even calling it a "reunification" is something of a misnomer.

For an awful lot of us, it's quite simple: we don't *want* Northern Ireland as part of our country. We don't want to pay higher taxes because they can't support themselves. We don't want their hardline nutjobs voting in our elections. We don't want their terrorists in our Dail or bombing our people.

Thomas__. · 29-03-2018 11:07am

Sleepy wrote: »

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would these be the same RUC officers who were given PSNI uniforms a while back ?

Policing is similar, arrest them first on suspicion and then figure out what to charge them with later.

Rather different to change the uniforms of a police service enforcing the same set of laws to one enforcing a completely different legal system. I'm sure it's possible, but it would be an expensive, and lengthy process.

I love how the Sinn Fein fantasists just expect the rest of the country to accept the unification of our country with a basket-case as the "end game" simply because that's what they say it is.

The only time Ireland has ever been "unified" was when it was a part of the British Empire so even calling it a "reunification" is something of a misnomer.

For an awful lot of us, it's quite simple: we don't *want* Northern Ireland as part of our country. We don't want to pay higher taxes because they can't support themselves. We don't want their hardline nutjobs voting in our elections. We don't want their terrorists in our Dail or bombing our people.

It went exactly the way Capt said. STASI Agents (professional or informal ones) were outsourced, older close to retirement given early retirement and the others fit for service taken over. They just had to adopt to the new system (by training) and that was it.

whisky_galore · 29-03-2018 11:16am

corny wrote: »

Its hardly surprising. Irrespective of your politics....why on earth would anyone (UK or Ireland) want union with the north?

Jesus, i'd march the streets to prevent a united Ireland.

Sometimes I wish it could be sawn off and left float away..

Sleepy · 29-03-2018 11:26am

Thomas__. wrote: »

It went exactly the way Capt said. STASI Agents (professional or informal ones) were outsourced, older close to retirement given early retirement and the others fit for service taken over. They just had to adopt to the new system (by training) and that was it.

I don't doubt either of you: after all the change from the RUC to the PSNI was little more than a rebranding exercise carried out as a sop to Sinn Fein and their supports. A new police force replaced an existing one, operating in the same jurisdiction, enforcing the same laws as the old one.

The level of training required to turn PSNI officers into Gardaí would be far more lengthy and expensive. That said, it could be for the betterment of the force overall. Though, the new expanded force would likely have far more work to do than at present given the near certainty of violence from Unionist terrorists.

Thomas__. · 29-03-2018 12:28pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Thomas__. wrote: »

It went exactly the way Capt said. STASI Agents (professional or informal ones) were outsourced, older close to retirement given early retirement and the others fit for service taken over. They just had to adopt to the new system (by training) and that was it.

I don't doubt either of you: after all the change from the RUC to the PSNI was little more than a rebranding exercise carried out as a sop to Sinn Fein and their supports. A new police force replaced an existing one, operating in the same jurisdiction, enforcing the same laws as the old one.

The level of training required to turn PSNI officers into Gardaí would be far more lengthy and expensive. That said, it could be for the betterment of the force overall. Though, the new expanded force would likely have far more work to do than at present given the near certainty of violence from Unionist terrorists.

Well, there is no doubt that a UI won't come for scot free. It will cost and how much it will cost remains to be calculated but for that one has at least get the right figures to work with. No undertakings have been taken on to start with it. At least I never noticed anything about that in the media.

The transformation from the RUC into the present PSNI wasn't as much a big deal (I presume) like to have to transfer the PSNI into the Gardaí as this, as you pointed out, requires training to the law and practice of the Republic policing. Still, the transformation of the RUC into the PSNI was a necessary step towards the aim of a UI in order to change a once sectarian Police Force into a non-sectarian on and thus make it a bit easier to integrate them once a UI is about to become a reality. There is certainly no doubt that SF played a major role in that transformation.

I have no doubt that a new, or let it be put more realistically - territorial and personell extended - Gardaí would had more work on their hands because both forces would be combined into one. The hot spots would be as today, like Dublin, Belfast and other cities and greater towns in Ireland. A matter to be looked after is the pensions for retired Police personell in NI and whether they'd get the pensions from the UK (or what will be left of it) or from the Republic for their years of service. Normally, for those already retired and those about to be in a short time after re-unification, it would be Westminster to pay for them. One could spin it further regarding various details and it would be to little avail unless one does it with proper figures. The result might deter even more people from the idea of a UI and be against it, just like you.

Sleepy · 29-03-2018 2:30pm

TBH, I'd see the carrying out of such an exercise as an awful misuse of taxpayers money until there's evidence that a United Ireland is something the vast majority of Irish people want. And would expect two referendums on the issue: a first to authorise the government to carry out an exploratory feasibility study that would and design a framework for such a unification including detailed costings and financing details for this and a second to authorise them to proceed with the process. Like you suggest, I think when the average armchair republican was shown a detailed cost estimate for unification, they wouldn't be long in changing their mind about unification. I'd be fairly convinced that a unification would leave Ireland teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for generations.

It's rather telling that for all their calling for a United Ireland, Sinn Fein have never actually carried out such a costing exercise, nor provided any detailed suggestion for how unification could be paid for. Hardly surprising though since their TDs have rarely, if ever, managed to provide realistic costings for their populist suggestions in the country they're actually paid to be legislators for.

end of the road · 29-03-2018 2:57pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Rather different to change the uniforms of a police service enforcing the same set of laws to one enforcing a completely different legal system. I'm sure it's possible, but it would be an expensive, and lengthy process.

I love how the Sinn Fein fantasists just expect the rest of the country to accept the unification of our country with a basket-case as the "end game" simply because that's what they say it is.

The only time Ireland has ever been "unified" was when it was a part of the British Empire so even calling it a "reunification" is something of a misnomer.

For an awful lot of us, it's quite simple: we don't *want* Northern Ireland as part of our country. We don't want to pay higher taxes because they can't support themselves. We don't want their hardline nutjobs voting in our elections. We don't want their terrorists in our Dail or bombing our people.

it is still reunification as the 1 island is uniting under the one government. you may not want reunification with northern ireland but at some stage down the line it is going to happen whether you want it or not. if britain wants it, it will happen. best start getting used to the idea now for your own sake. any of the "arguments" you have put forward will not come to pass as it is highly likely there will be a transition period in which everything will have to be ironed out. as per your next post it's unlikely there will be 2 referendums in the south. they are not required as per the GFA as i understand. only 1 in the north and one in the south.

Mutant z · 29-03-2018 3:04pm

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

Sleepy · 29-03-2018 5:03pm

end of the road wrote: »

it is still reunification as the 1 island is uniting under the one government. you may not want reunification with northern ireland but at some stage down the line it is going to happen whether you want it or not. if britain wants it, it will happen. best start getting used to the idea now for your own sake. any of the "arguments" you have put forward will not come to pass as it is highly likely there will be a transition period in which everything will have to be ironed out. as per your next post it's unlikely there will be 2 referendums in the south. they are not required as per the GFA as i understand. only 1 in the north and one in the south.

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

I do agree that it's unlikely we'll see 2 referendums, which is a pity imho. It means most of the electorate will be voting for or against from a position of ignorance and we all know how well that seems to be going for the British with Brexit.

Jacko753 · 29-03-2018 5:51pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

I do agree that it's unlikely we'll see 2 referendums, which is a pity imho. It means most of the electorate will be voting for or against from a position of ignorance and we all know how well that seems to be going for the British with Brexit.

Do people in this country care about anything but money these days? When you say from a point of ignorance do you mean people will vote thinking about something other than their pocket?

Capt'n Midnight · 30-03-2018 10:53pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Like you suggest, I think when the average armchair republican was shown a detailed cost estimate for unification, they wouldn't be long in changing their mind about unification. I'd be fairly convinced that a unification would leave Ireland teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for generations.

It's rather telling that for all their calling for a United Ireland, Sinn Fein have never actually carried out such a costing exercise, nor provided any detailed suggestion for how unification could be paid for. Hardly surprising though since their TDs have rarely, if ever, managed to provide realistic costings for their populist suggestions in the country they're actually paid to be legislators for.

Sinn Fein and economics ? Hurlers on the ditch.

The cost of reunification would be huge. But so was the bankers bail-out. And we'd probably get more help from the EU.

NI won't be as rich as Munster anytime soon. But removing the border would allow more inward investment, and more north-south trade for Belfast and more east-west for Stroke City. Back in the day the North East was the centre for engineering.

Greentopia · 31-03-2018 12:30am

Sleepy wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

Indeed, facts that seem to be conveniently glossed over or ignored by those who want a united Ireland. Let's see how popular it would be after a few years if we did get a united Ireland and hundreds of thousands of our young people were yet again having to leave the country because the economy has tanked and there are no jobs for them.

testicles · 31-03-2018 12:38am

This post has been deleted.

Greentopia · 31-03-2018 12:47am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The cost of reunification would be huge. But so was the bankers bail-out. And we'd probably get more help from the EU

Germans are still paying a reunification tax to support their poorer Eastern states 27 years after the reunification of that country.

A project that has so far cost around 1.5 trillion Euro, and yet the former Eastern states still have only 72% of the economic output of the rest of the country. Now if the economic powerhouse of Europe with all their industry and wealth cannot achieve a united country where everyone has equal opportunities after 27 years of massive effort what hope does Ireland have?

More help from the EU yes probably, but it won't come close to covering the costs.

bilston · 31-03-2018 12:48am

Ah great...ANOTHER Northern Ireland bashing thread on After Hours...I can hardly believe it.

OP...I much prefer it when you're predicting snow.

feargale · 31-03-2018 1:22am

Aren't you misreading the question and the result?

It asks: "Which of these is the greatest priority:?"

It doen't simply ask: "Do you want Northern Ireland to stay in the UK?"

the_syco · 31-03-2018 1:41am

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

As a kid I might have thought NI should be a part of the republic but with the wisdom of age I say I dont want them, we can not afford them and the troubles that would start up from the whole business.

Just 12% think NI should remain part of the UK instead of Brexit? I wonder if only 12% of RoI people want the economic and cultural issues that'll come with NI? We'll need to keep a special armed unit up North, for the terrorists, wannabe terrorists, etc.

Also, we'll need a nice big jail to throw them into.

Assetbacked · 31-03-2018 1:46am

Re-unification is a romantic notion but in reality, for a huge portion of young people in the South, NI has always been seen as a separate country entirely and for a large portion of older people is something which caused a lot of trouble. If, in the south, we were asked whether our priorities were what happens with Brexit and the UK as a whole or what happens with NI by itself in the long run, I can’t imagine the figures for NI would be high.

bodhrandude · 31-03-2018 2:25am

The UK should be giving the Ulster Unionists land in Scotland, wasn't that originally where they were evicted from in first place, it was the UK who transplanted them there and gave them the name of the Pikes. The UK government should be told to get offsky out of there and this is coming from someone who wouldn't be a mad Republican.

irishrebe · 31-03-2018 6:53am

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

shaunr68 · 31-03-2018 7:50am

bodhrandude wrote: »

The UK should be giving the Ulster Unionists land in Scotland, wasn't that originally where they were evicted from in first place, it was the UK who transplanted them there and gave them the name of the Pikes. The UK government should be told to get offsky out of there and this is coming from someone who wouldn't be a mad Republican.

Nothing like a lovely bit of ethnic cleansing, eh. While we're at it let's deport all white North Americans back to Europe, all black people back to Africa, all Hispanic south Americans back to Spain and Portugal. Any Irish of Celtic origin will be considered impostors and shipped back to Central Europe in cattle trucks. In fact we might as well go right back and shoe-horn the whole human race into the Horn of Africa since that's where we came from.

feargale · 01-04-2018 11:36pm

feargale wrote: »

Aren't you misreading the question and the result?

It asks: "Which of these is the greatest priority:?"

It doen't simply ask: "Do you want Northern Ireland to stay in the UK?"

No takers? I would have thought your whole thread hung on this question,

timthumbni · 01-04-2018 11:50pm

irishrebe wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

We don’t for the most part. It we really dislike the thought of being in the Irish republic even more. How’s that for you? If you went around a Norn Iron town and asked them to name 5 Irish as in the Republic of Ireland politician even the provo ares up here couldn’t do it. What’s your point? Do most dublin people give a feck about limerick? I doubt it...

Gwynplaine · 01-04-2018 11:59pm

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

irishrebe · 02-04-2018 12:00am

timthumbni wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

We don’t for the most part. It we really dislike the thought of being in the Irish republic even more. How’s that for you? If you went around a Norn Iron town and asked them to name 5 Irish as in the Republic of Ireland politician even the provo ares up here couldn’t do it. What’s your point? Do most dublin people give a feck about limerick? I doubt it...

That hasn't been my experience. I've met plenty of Unionists who are disappointed and shocked to be called 'Irish' by English people they meet. They feel a loyalty to Britain which isn't really reciprocated. It's not necessarily so much about knowing facts like politician names, more about the fact that they feel part of a nation which treats them with indifference.

timthumbni · 02-04-2018 12:02am

Gwynplaine wrote: »

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

I can understand your point in a way but when it comes to salgh8ng the accent all I can say is

“In a fookin susuki”

I don’t know any Norn Iron man who is jealous of the southern accent.

At least we can pronounce 3 ffs. Lol.

Gwynplaine · 02-04-2018 12:06am

timthumbni wrote: »

At least we can pronounce 3 ffs. Lol.

Yeah. "Free poins fuffty"

feargale · 02-04-2018 12:10am

Oh for Christ's sake! We're into bad accents now, are we? These NI threads get stupider and stupider, on both sides.

end of the road · 02-04-2018 12:17am

Gwynplaine wrote: »

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

only some of the irish don't want it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 02-04-2018 12:22am

This post has been deleted.

irishrebe · 02-04-2018 12:24am

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hopefully enough of us don't if it ever comes to a vote.[/quote]
That'll come as a nasty surprise to the Brits, many of whom seem to think Ireland are just dying to get NI back.

Junkyard Tom · 02-04-2018 12:55am

Peregrinus wrote: »

It shows that a minority of British citizens rate that as a more important objective than maintaining the Union.

Pro-unification organisations should have a big green bus going around Britain with 'GET RID OF N. IRELAND - £400,000,000 a week for the NHS'. I'd say about 90% of the British population would choose 'get rid'.

Amirani wrote: »

I'm not sure a United Ireland is necessarily inevitable in this sense due to the large cultural and historical differences.

You make the oft-made mistake of believing that the north is populated only by unionists, they're a minority now.

goz83 · 02-04-2018 11:31am

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

As a kid I might have thought NI should be a part of the republic but with the wisdom of age I say I dont want them, we can not afford them and the troubles that would start up from the whole business.

Do we really want this:

Ah Chris, you’re not an old man yet. Their bonfires are certainly big and dangerous, but their burning of flags and posters is little more than a minority of scumbaggery in the areas.

end of the road wrote: »

it is still reunification as the 1 island is uniting under the one government. you may not want reunification with northern ireland but at some stage down the line it is going to happen whether you want it or not. if britain wants it, it will happen. best start getting used to the idea now for your own sake. any of the "arguments" you have put forward will not come to pass as it is highly likely there will be a transition period in which everything will have to be ironed out. as per your next post it's unlikely there will be 2 referendums in the south. they are not required as per the GFA as i understand. only 1 in the north and one in the south.

I agree that a UI is the end game, but I don’t think ramming it down peoples throat is the right way to go about it. Give a coherent argument, rather than telling everyone it will happen whether they like it or not. This needs a huge amount of discussion. There is only talk of money and potential violence with no real indepth discussion on either issue.

Greentopia wrote: »

Indeed, facts that seem to be conveniently glossed over or ignored by those who want a united Ireland. Let's see how popular it would be after a few years if we did get a united Ireland and hundreds of thousands of our young people were yet again having to leave the country because the economy has tanked and there are no jobs for them.

You mean like a recession? These things happen regardless and will have little to do with a UI. I actually believe that having a UI would be more beneficial in the long term....now that the UK is leaving Europe. It may take a generation to iron out the wrinkles, but that’s just the way it is. It wont change overnight.

Greentopia wrote: »

Germans are still paying a reunification tax to support their poorer Eastern states 27 years after the reunification of that country.

A project that has so far cost around 1.5 trillion Euro, and yet the former Eastern states still have only 72% of the economic output of the rest of the country. Now if the economic powerhouse of Europe with all their industry and wealth cannot achieve a united country where everyone has equal opportunities after 27 years of massive effort what hope does Ireland have?

More help from the EU yes probably, but it won't come close to covering the costs.

Once a tax is introduced, it very rarely disappears. That unification tax they pay is not being ringfenced for the poorer part of Germany....at least I don’t think so.

There will be a long transition and support payments from both the UK and EU to stabilise the country as it undergoes such a change. It will take a generation to harmonise most things, including the salaries of public service workers. The pensions would need to be paid to Ireland, because there will be various years of contributions which will have been paid to the UK by workers.

Northern Ireland can become a contributor and not just a cost. If only more people gave more of a damn about them than their own pockets.

Sleepy · 03-04-2018 11:46am

Jacko753 wrote: »

Do people in this country care about anything but money these days? When you say from a point of ignorance do you mean people will vote thinking about something other than their pocket?

No, ignorance. A lack of knowledge or wisdom. The lack of all the facts.

Those voting for unification will largely be doing so out of a mixture of hatred for the English, romantic views of the Republicans of 1916-21, amnesia about the brutality of the IRA in the 70's/80's and 90's and ignorance of the consequences of a reunification process (or economics in general).

So, basically: your average Sinn Fein voter. Luckily, based on figures from the last election (which was their most successful ever iirc) they only make up 13.8% of the electorate.

FTA69 · 03-04-2018 11:50am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You make the oft-made mistake of believing that the north is populated only by unionists, they're a minority now.

Are they? Your traditional supremacist Protestant Unionist might be a minority but I'd say the people who want the north of Ireland to remain a part of the UK isn't a minority at all i.e those who hold a unionist position.

facehugger99 · 03-04-2018 11:53am

Of course GB doesn't want NI. Why would they?

Most people in the Republic don't want them either. Would be an economic and security nightmare.

Before any talk of unification with the Republic, they should be made to demonstrate they can self -govern and balance a budget over a minimum of 30 years.

People in the Republic most in favour of unification are those who won't be paying for it. Believe me, if it comes to it, the rest of us whose pockets will be picked will be saying a resounding 'No!'

Charles Babbage · 03-04-2018 11:55am

Sleepy wrote: »

No, ignorance. A lack of knowledge or wisdom. The lack of all the facts.

Those voting for unification will largely be doing so out of a mixture of hatred for the English, romantic views of the Republicans of 1916-21, amnesia about the brutality of the IRA in the 70's/80's and 90's and ignorance of the consequences of a reunification process (or economics in general).

Hatred of the English is not the point, any more than it was in the independance of 26 counties, you don't have to hate someone to not want to be their colony. What does something the IRA did 30 years ago have to with it one way or the other? It is a bit like saying you cannot be in the EU with Germany because of Hitler. Economics certainly needs discussion, but Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided, although there is a problematic transition.

end of the road · 03-04-2018 12:18pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Of course GB doesn't want NI. Why would they?

Most people in the Republic don't want them either. Would be an economic and security nightmare.

Before any talk of unification with the Republic, they should be made to demonstrate they can self -govern and balance a budget over a minimum of 30 years.

People in the Republic most in favour of unification are those who won't be paying for it. Believe me, if it comes to it, the rest of us whose pockets will be picked will be saying a resounding 'No!'

there is no tangible evidence to suggest that most people in the republic don't want northern ireland. poles posted here over the years seem to suggest the opposite.
the economic and security arguments are not good enough arguments really, because not only does what may exist now not guarantee what will be in the future, but they are really just brought up as the people who don't want reunification know they have no argument against reunification. the idea of northern ireland demonstrating it can govern itself and balance a budget for over a minimum of 30 years is nonsense and is just a delaying tactic against the innevitable. people in the republic most against reunification are those who won't be paying for it either. believe me, if it comes to it, the "rest of us" if you are even alive, can say no all you like, but it will be britain and the EU'S wants that will really decide the course.

Sleepy · 03-04-2018 4:58pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Hatred of the English is not the point, any more than it was in the independance of 26 counties, you don't have to hate someone to not want to be their colony. What does something the IRA did 30 years ago have to with it one way or the other? It is a bit like saying you cannot be in the EU with Germany because of Hitler. Economics certainly needs discussion, but Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided, although there is a problematic transition.

OK, let's here this one out.

How will Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided? Exactly how many generations do you predict will have to live through the "problematic transition"?

RandomName2 · 03-04-2018 6:11pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's certainly great news. i have said for a long time now that britain doesn't want northern ireland.

Don't see why it's either news, or great. Who would want a fractious, economic drain like Northern Ireland where the two communities are divided, and one of the two main parties had members that actively partook in terrorism, while the other main party at the very least tacitly approved of sectarian violence and dissent.

You say 'unification' (with Ireland) as if the majority of Northern Ireland even want that. They apparently don't. Imperialistic ambitions alone aren't a justification for wanting unification.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-04-2018 6:21pm

Sleepy wrote: »

OK, let's here this one out.

How will Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided? Exactly how many generations do you predict will have to live through the "problematic transition"?

If NI is a basket case , and Brexit reduces central funds - because ALL the economic projections say it will, then sooner or later the UK will cut them free.

Unless we build a wall they are going to be our problem at some stage. Might as well try to get them weaned off state dependency and working for a living. The big problem is a lack of inward investment and Brexit won't help there.

Skedaddle · 03-04-2018 6:29pm

I don't think there's really any "news" to this. The only big issue is that the decision on what Northern Ireland wants to do is ultimately for the population of Northern Ireland.

Also, with the bizarre arrangement the Tories have, being a minority government backed by the DUP, this or anything like this is extremely unlikely to happen anytime soon.

However, I think it's something the NI unionist communities don't really understand: the British aren't overly fond of them and see the whole concept marching up and down ranting about catholics while waving what they see as "their" flag as all a bit bizarre. It's not really a concept of Britishness that many in contemporary Britain would recognise at all.

gw80 · 03-04-2018 6:34pm

I have a question, if unification happened, what would happen to all the prisoners currently in prison under her majesty,s keep,
Surely prisoners of one country cannot be handed over to another country,
Would the British have to continue running the prisons until all prisoners convicted under british rule served their sentences?
Or would they have to be transferred to prisons in England?
Just curious.

Junkyard Tom · 03-04-2018 6:39pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I'd say the people who want the north of Ireland to remain a part of the UK isn't a minority at all

I'd say you're right. People from nationalist backgrounds are doing okay in the north nowadays but they have no loyalty to the British state or the so-called 'union'.

Capt'n Midnight · 03-04-2018 6:45pm

The DUP are doing their level best to alienate minorities. Or at least you could be forgiven for thinking that. The swing vote up North isn't interested in the history of the two tribes and they'll be the ones who decide the border poll. Unless you support traditional unionist values the South is looking better all the time.

Ian Paisley retweeted a racist rant from Katie Hopkins (she who should be up for incitement at this stage) it doesn't even matter what the tweet said, the fact that it's from her is enough
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43628054

03-04-2018 6:58pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If NI is a basket case , and Brexit reduces central funds - because ALL the economic projections say it will, then sooner or later the UK will cut them free.

Unless we build a wall they are going to be our problem at some stage. Might as well try to get them weaned off state dependency and working for a living. The big problem is a lack of inward investment and Brexit won't help there.

The UK can’t just “cut them free”. A state can’t just decide that one part isn’t worth the hassle any more and get rid of it. Christ, we’d have got shot of Cavan decades ago if this was the case.

Charles Babbage · 03-04-2018 6:59pm

Sleepy wrote: »

OK, let's here this one out.

How will Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided? Exactly how many generations do you predict will have to live through the "problematic transition"?

Partition causes economic dislocation, duplication of resources, so it reduces the economy. Removing it will clearly remove these issues.

How long did the transition for Monaghan take?

gw80 wrote: »

I have a question, if unification happened, what would happen to all the prisoners currently in prison under her majesty,s keep,
Surely prisoners of one country cannot be handed over to another country,
Would the British have to continue running the prisons until all prisoners convicted under british rule served their sentences?
Or would they have to be transferred to prisons in England?
Just curious.

What happened in Mountjoy in 1922? Gurriers just remained in jail, likewise when NI joins the rest of the country. I would favour any loyalist prisoners being moved to Britain and then released provided they don't come back here.

03-04-2018 7:16pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Partition causes economic dislocation, duplication of resources, so it reduces the economy. Removing it will clearly remove these issues.

What resources are currently duplicated?

Minority of British Citizens want NI to remain part of the United Kingdom

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