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Minority of British Citizens want NI to remain part of the United Kingdom

Kermit.de.frog

Check out the latest Brexit poll.

Which of these is the greatest priority:

1. That the United Kingdom leaves the European Union
or
2. That the union between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom is maintained

___________________________________

Leave Voters

That the UK leaves the EU: 71% • That Northern Ireland remains part of the UK: 12%

___________________________________

Remain Voters

That the UK leaves the EU: 9% • That Northern Ireland remains part of the UK: 47%

From Yougov

Data here:

http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/bhy62x09m0/LBC_Results_180322_w.pdf

Jeez ever feel like you are not wanted? :eek:

Leave voters - just 12% think NI should remain part of the UK instead of Brexit.

Why do I get the feeling we'll be taking over more than we might actually want in the years ahead.

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Sleepy

end of the road wrote: »

it is still reunification as the 1 island is uniting under the one government. you may not want reunification with northern ireland but at some stage down the line it is going to happen whether you want it or not. if britain wants it, it will happen. best start getting used to the idea now for your own sake. any of the "arguments" you have put forward will not come to pass as it is highly likely there will be a transition period in which everything will have to be ironed out. as per your next post it's unlikely there will be 2 referendums in the south. they are not required as per the GFA as i understand. only 1 in the north and one in the south.

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

I do agree that it's unlikely we'll see 2 referendums, which is a pity imho. It means most of the electorate will be voting for or against from a position of ignorance and we all know how well that seems to be going for the British with Brexit.

Jacko753

Sleepy wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

I do agree that it's unlikely we'll see 2 referendums, which is a pity imho. It means most of the electorate will be voting for or against from a position of ignorance and we all know how well that seems to be going for the British with Brexit.

Do people in this country care about anything but money these days? When you say from a point of ignorance do you mean people will vote thinking about something other than their pocket?

Capt'n Midnight

Sleepy wrote: »

Like you suggest, I think when the average armchair republican was shown a detailed cost estimate for unification, they wouldn't be long in changing their mind about unification. I'd be fairly convinced that a unification would leave Ireland teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for generations.

It's rather telling that for all their calling for a United Ireland, Sinn Fein have never actually carried out such a costing exercise, nor provided any detailed suggestion for how unification could be paid for. Hardly surprising though since their TDs have rarely, if ever, managed to provide realistic costings for their populist suggestions in the country they're actually paid to be legislators for.

Sinn Fein and economics ? Hurlers on the ditch.

The cost of reunification would be huge. But so was the bankers bail-out. And we'd probably get more help from the EU.

NI won't be as rich as Munster anytime soon. But removing the border would allow more inward investment, and more north-south trade for Belfast and more east-west for Stroke City. Back in the day the North East was the centre for engineering.

Greentopia

Sleepy wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers for tonight or does your crystal ball only show you the future of Northern Ireland? It's certainly showing you a rose-tinted view of the world if you think unification wouldn't lead to the economic collapse or at least decades of hardship for those of us in the Republic. Any financial support from the UK Exchequer or the EU will only last a relatively short duration and won't cover the full cost of the burden the basket case economy of Northern Ireland would place on us.

Indeed, facts that seem to be conveniently glossed over or ignored by those who want a united Ireland. Let's see how popular it would be after a few years if we did get a united Ireland and hundreds of thousands of our young people were yet again having to leave the country because the economy has tanked and there are no jobs for them.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Greentopia

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The cost of reunification would be huge. But so was the bankers bail-out. And we'd probably get more help from the EU

Germans are still paying a reunification tax to support their poorer Eastern states 27 years after the reunification of that country.

A project that has so far cost around 1.5 trillion Euro, and yet the former Eastern states still have only 72% of the economic output of the rest of the country. Now if the economic powerhouse of Europe with all their industry and wealth cannot achieve a united country where everyone has equal opportunities after 27 years of massive effort what hope does Ireland have?

More help from the EU yes probably, but it won't come close to covering the costs.

bilston

Ah great...ANOTHER Northern Ireland bashing thread on After Hours...I can hardly believe it.

OP...I much prefer it when you're predicting snow.

feargale

Aren't you misreading the question and the result?

It asks: "Which of these is the greatest priority:?"

It doen't simply ask: "Do you want Northern Ireland to stay in the UK?"

the_syco

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

As a kid I might have thought NI should be a part of the republic but with the wisdom of age I say I dont want them, we can not afford them and the troubles that would start up from the whole business.

Just 12% think NI should remain part of the UK instead of Brexit? I wonder if only 12% of RoI people want the economic and cultural issues that'll come with NI? We'll need to keep a special armed unit up North, for the terrorists, wannabe terrorists, etc.

Also, we'll need a nice big jail to throw them into.

Assetbacked

Re-unification is a romantic notion but in reality, for a huge portion of young people in the South, NI has always been seen as a separate country entirely and for a large portion of older people is something which caused a lot of trouble. If, in the south, we were asked whether our priorities were what happens with Brexit and the UK as a whole or what happens with NI by itself in the long run, I can’t imagine the figures for NI would be high.

bodhrandude

The UK should be giving the Ulster Unionists land in Scotland, wasn't that originally where they were evicted from in first place, it was the UK who transplanted them there and gave them the name of the Pikes. The UK government should be told to get offsky out of there and this is coming from someone who wouldn't be a mad Republican.

irishrebe

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

shaunr68

bodhrandude wrote: »

The UK should be giving the Ulster Unionists land in Scotland, wasn't that originally where they were evicted from in first place, it was the UK who transplanted them there and gave them the name of the Pikes. The UK government should be told to get offsky out of there and this is coming from someone who wouldn't be a mad Republican.

Nothing like a lovely bit of ethnic cleansing, eh. While we're at it let's deport all white North Americans back to Europe, all black people back to Africa, all Hispanic south Americans back to Spain and Portugal. Any Irish of Celtic origin will be considered impostors and shipped back to Central Europe in cattle trucks. In fact we might as well go right back and shoe-horn the whole human race into the Horn of Africa since that's where we came from.

feargale

feargale wrote: »

Aren't you misreading the question and the result?

It asks: "Which of these is the greatest priority:?"

It doen't simply ask: "Do you want Northern Ireland to stay in the UK?"

No takers? I would have thought your whole thread hung on this question,

timthumbni

irishrebe wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

We don’t for the most part. It we really dislike the thought of being in the Irish republic even more. How’s that for you? If you went around a Norn Iron town and asked them to name 5 Irish as in the Republic of Ireland politician even the provo ares up here couldn’t do it. What’s your point? Do most dublin people give a feck about limerick? I doubt it...

Gwynplaine

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

irishrebe

timthumbni wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

Not surprising really its always been seen as the needy little brother clinging to the coattails of the rest of the UK they just laugh at unionists refering to themselves as British they would drop them in a heartbeat if they could its inevitable it will happen sooner or later.

It always amuses me how so many unionists in the north think the rest of the UK gives a flying f*ck about them. To your average Brit, they are just 'Irish'. If they went around a city centre in England and asked random people who King Billy was and what happens on 12th July, they wouldn't have a notion.

We don’t for the most part. It we really dislike the thought of being in the Irish republic even more. How’s that for you? If you went around a Norn Iron town and asked them to name 5 Irish as in the Republic of Ireland politician even the provo ares up here couldn’t do it. What’s your point? Do most dublin people give a feck about limerick? I doubt it...

That hasn't been my experience. I've met plenty of Unionists who are disappointed and shocked to be called 'Irish' by English people they meet. They feel a loyalty to Britain which isn't really reciprocated. It's not necessarily so much about knowing facts like politician names, more about the fact that they feel part of a nation which treats them with indifference.

timthumbni

Gwynplaine wrote: »

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

I can understand your point in a way but when it comes to salgh8ng the accent all I can say is

“In a fookin susuki”

I don’t know any Norn Iron man who is jealous of the southern accent.

At least we can pronounce 3 ffs. Lol.

Gwynplaine

timthumbni wrote: »

At least we can pronounce 3 ffs. Lol.

Yeah. "Free poins fuffty"

feargale

Oh for Christ's sake! We're into bad accents now, are we? These NI threads get stupider and stupider, on both sides.

end of the road

Gwynplaine wrote: »

If there was a big machine that could cut off Norn Iron and send it off into the Atlantic it would be great. The Irish don't want it, and the Brits don't want it. Cut it off and let them annoy each other away from everyone.
All I see and hear from Stormont is "meetings about discussions, and discussions about meetings, dialogue, more meetings, communiddy, sitcyachun and more talks".
A never ending rindabite of unending annoyance, in a horrible accent.

only some of the irish don't want it.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

irishrebe

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hopefully enough of us don't if it ever comes to a vote.[/quote]
That'll come as a nasty surprise to the Brits, many of whom seem to think Ireland are just dying to get NI back.

Junkyard Tom

Peregrinus wrote: »

It shows that a minority of British citizens rate that as a more important objective than maintaining the Union.

Pro-unification organisations should have a big green bus going around Britain with 'GET RID OF N. IRELAND - £400,000,000 a week for the NHS'. I'd say about 90% of the British population would choose 'get rid'.

Amirani wrote: »

I'm not sure a United Ireland is necessarily inevitable in this sense due to the large cultural and historical differences.

You make the oft-made mistake of believing that the north is populated only by unionists, they're a minority now.

goz83

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

As a kid I might have thought NI should be a part of the republic but with the wisdom of age I say I dont want them, we can not afford them and the troubles that would start up from the whole business.

Do we really want this:

Ah Chris, you’re not an old man yet. Their bonfires are certainly big and dangerous, but their burning of flags and posters is little more than a minority of scumbaggery in the areas.

end of the road wrote: »

it is still reunification as the 1 island is uniting under the one government. you may not want reunification with northern ireland but at some stage down the line it is going to happen whether you want it or not. if britain wants it, it will happen. best start getting used to the idea now for your own sake. any of the "arguments" you have put forward will not come to pass as it is highly likely there will be a transition period in which everything will have to be ironed out. as per your next post it's unlikely there will be 2 referendums in the south. they are not required as per the GFA as i understand. only 1 in the north and one in the south.

I agree that a UI is the end game, but I don’t think ramming it down peoples throat is the right way to go about it. Give a coherent argument, rather than telling everyone it will happen whether they like it or not. This needs a huge amount of discussion. There is only talk of money and potential violence with no real indepth discussion on either issue.

Greentopia wrote: »

Indeed, facts that seem to be conveniently glossed over or ignored by those who want a united Ireland. Let's see how popular it would be after a few years if we did get a united Ireland and hundreds of thousands of our young people were yet again having to leave the country because the economy has tanked and there are no jobs for them.

You mean like a recession? These things happen regardless and will have little to do with a UI. I actually believe that having a UI would be more beneficial in the long term....now that the UK is leaving Europe. It may take a generation to iron out the wrinkles, but that’s just the way it is. It wont change overnight.

Greentopia wrote: »

Germans are still paying a reunification tax to support their poorer Eastern states 27 years after the reunification of that country.

A project that has so far cost around 1.5 trillion Euro, and yet the former Eastern states still have only 72% of the economic output of the rest of the country. Now if the economic powerhouse of Europe with all their industry and wealth cannot achieve a united country where everyone has equal opportunities after 27 years of massive effort what hope does Ireland have?

More help from the EU yes probably, but it won't come close to covering the costs.

Once a tax is introduced, it very rarely disappears. That unification tax they pay is not being ringfenced for the poorer part of Germany....at least I don’t think so.

There will be a long transition and support payments from both the UK and EU to stabilise the country as it undergoes such a change. It will take a generation to harmonise most things, including the salaries of public service workers. The pensions would need to be paid to Ireland, because there will be various years of contributions which will have been paid to the UK by workers.

Northern Ireland can become a contributor and not just a cost. If only more people gave more of a damn about them than their own pockets.

Sleepy

Jacko753 wrote: »

Do people in this country care about anything but money these days? When you say from a point of ignorance do you mean people will vote thinking about something other than their pocket?

No, ignorance. A lack of knowledge or wisdom. The lack of all the facts.

Those voting for unification will largely be doing so out of a mixture of hatred for the English, romantic views of the Republicans of 1916-21, amnesia about the brutality of the IRA in the 70's/80's and 90's and ignorance of the consequences of a reunification process (or economics in general).

So, basically: your average Sinn Fein voter. Luckily, based on figures from the last election (which was their most successful ever iirc) they only make up 13.8% of the electorate.

FTA69

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You make the oft-made mistake of believing that the north is populated only by unionists, they're a minority now.

Are they? Your traditional supremacist Protestant Unionist might be a minority but I'd say the people who want the north of Ireland to remain a part of the UK isn't a minority at all i.e those who hold a unionist position.

facehugger99

Of course GB doesn't want NI. Why would they?

Most people in the Republic don't want them either. Would be an economic and security nightmare.

Before any talk of unification with the Republic, they should be made to demonstrate they can self -govern and balance a budget over a minimum of 30 years.

People in the Republic most in favour of unification are those who won't be paying for it. Believe me, if it comes to it, the rest of us whose pockets will be picked will be saying a resounding 'No!'

Charles Babbage

Sleepy wrote: »

No, ignorance. A lack of knowledge or wisdom. The lack of all the facts.

Those voting for unification will largely be doing so out of a mixture of hatred for the English, romantic views of the Republicans of 1916-21, amnesia about the brutality of the IRA in the 70's/80's and 90's and ignorance of the consequences of a reunification process (or economics in general).

Hatred of the English is not the point, any more than it was in the independance of 26 counties, you don't have to hate someone to not want to be their colony. What does something the IRA did 30 years ago have to with it one way or the other? It is a bit like saying you cannot be in the EU with Germany because of Hitler. Economics certainly needs discussion, but Ireland will be more prosperous unified than divided, although there is a problematic transition.

end of the road

facehugger99 wrote: »

Of course GB doesn't want NI. Why would they?

Most people in the Republic don't want them either. Would be an economic and security nightmare.

Before any talk of unification with the Republic, they should be made to demonstrate they can self -govern and balance a budget over a minimum of 30 years.

People in the Republic most in favour of unification are those who won't be paying for it. Believe me, if it comes to it, the rest of us whose pockets will be picked will be saying a resounding 'No!'

there is no tangible evidence to suggest that most people in the republic don't want northern ireland. poles posted here over the years seem to suggest the opposite.
the economic and security arguments are not good enough arguments really, because not only does what may exist now not guarantee what will be in the future, but they are really just brought up as the people who don't want reunification know they have no argument against reunification. the idea of northern ireland demonstrating it can govern itself and balance a budget for over a minimum of 30 years is nonsense and is just a delaying tactic against the innevitable. people in the republic most against reunification are those who won't be paying for it either. believe me, if it comes to it, the "rest of us" if you are even alive, can say no all you like, but it will be britain and the EU'S wants that will really decide the course.