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GAA Ace arrested for being AWOL British soldier

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    #32
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ted1 wrote: »
    Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

    We're 'neutral'?

    Someone forgot to tell Shannon ATC........

    BTW - whoever heard of a 'neutral' army?


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    #33
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    ted1 wrote: »
    Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

    That just has to the THE 'non sequitur' of the week, if not the month.

    Apart from pointing out the fact that the British Army is not a country, I'm not even going to attempt to ask what you mean by it.

    tac


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    #34
    folbotcar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭folbotcar


    ted1 wrote: »
    Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't
    Maybe there should be a sticky at the head of this forum pointing to the uninitiated why Ireland is not 'neutral'?

    As for 'proud neutral'. Isn't that an oxymoron?

    It's remarkable how persistent the myth of neutrality is and how often it's portrayed as some form principled stance which sets Ireland apart from all those other nations who actually take the defence of their country seriously.


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    #35
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,245 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    [Mod]Chicago Joe won't be posting again until after the weekend.[/Mod]


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    #36
    hurlsey
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭hurlsey


    To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

    Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

    Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

    What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

    I have but one question to these romanticists

    Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

    but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

    ignorance is bliss


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    #37
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,311 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    hurlsey wrote: »
    To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

    Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

    Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

    What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

    I have but one question to these romanticists

    Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

    but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

    ignorance is bliss

    Civvies like myself do believe in our defence forces and do believe that they do a great job as peace keepers and minding Irish waters.

    However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

    As for Shannon ATC and us planes, neutrality would say we allow Iraq or similar troops equal access en route to the US


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    #38
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    ted1 wrote: »
    However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

    People have failed to believe bad events possible time and time again; the 20th Century is a fine case in point. I really shouldn't need to expand upon mention of that.

    It should also not need pointed out that aggression comes in many shapes & sizes; not all of them stand-up shooting matches, and indeed increasingly not martial in their execution. As a result, the armed forces of any given nation need to be able to answer against said aggression - at least enough to deflect or blunt if not defeat it.


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    #39
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    ted1 wrote: »
    Civvies like myself do believe in our defence forces and do believe that they do a great job as peace keepers and minding Irish waters.

    However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

    As for Shannon ATC and us planes, neutrality would say we allow Iraq or similar troops equal access en route to the US

    We have an internal threat in the form or dissident republicans and have had the threat from the IRA for decades. An external threat isn't always necessary to justify having a defence force.


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    #40
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    ted1 wrote: »
    .......

    However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

    .......

    people really don't 'get' why we have a defence force - I've said it before, and I'll say it again it's about contingency. They really are the people the state calls on for those "oh sh1t" moments.

    Foot & Mouth in the UK and the G4S cock-up of Olympic security are just two of the bigger examples I can think off when a country's armed services had to pull somebody else's nuts out of the fire - never mind the 'routine' fire, flood and natural disaster type stuff they help out with in all countries.

    If you look at the US, one of the first things they do at a time of natural disasters is "call out the Guard" - somehow I doubt it's because they think the Canadians are going to use the opportunity of a tornado in Kansas to invade Detriot????

    And you could argue that the DF's role could be merged with AGS - but look at that organisation - would you really want that much power concentrated in a force who since the founding of the state has seen over 50% of those who've held the top job fired or resigned? Compared to the 0% of CoSs?
    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    We have an internal threat in the form or dissident republicans and have had the threat from the IRA for decades. An external threat isn't always necessary to justify having a defence force.

    ......and apparently they haven't gone away, you know.......


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    #41
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,907 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    hurlsey wrote: »
    To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

    Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

    Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

    What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

    I have but one question to these romanticists

    Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

    but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

    ignorance is bliss

    In order for our armed forces to do their job, defend the country from invasion, we'd need to spend many multiples of the amount we currently spend which will never happen. While the peace keeping missions do a good job for they army and Irelands international reputation it doesn't do anything for our own defence. And as said a modern army is highly trained we couldn't use conscription to build up the numbers if we had enough time, they would just be cannon fodder.

    So essentially we have a defence force that can't do its job, but would do the best it can if required. So what's the point in spending millions on it when we have other places where the money spent would make a difference. For civilians to respect our military we'd need to spend so much that they would hate our military.

    As for people saying we've nothing to be worried about as no one will invade us, only the UK has to worry, have a look at history and see how aggressive nations treat neutral countries. We where and still are the UKs weak back door and a very good staging point to invade from, with an armed forces that won't take much effort to overcome.


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    #42
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Del2005 wrote: »
    In order for our armed forces to do their job, defend the country from invasion, we'd need to spend many multiples of the amount we currently spend which will never happen. While the peace keeping missions do a good job for they army and Irelands international reputation it doesn't do anything for our own defence. And as said a modern army is highly trained we couldn't use conscription to build up the numbers if we had enough time, they would just be cannon fodder.

    So essentially we have a defence force that can't do its job, but would do the best it can if required. So what's the point in spending millions on it when we have other places where the money spent would make a difference. For civilians to respect our military we'd need to spend so much that they would hate our military.

    As for people saying we've nothing to be worried about as no one will invade us, only the UK has to worry, have a look at history and see how aggressive nations treat neutral countries. We where and still are the UKs weak back door and a very good staging point to invade from, with an armed forces that won't take much effort to overcome.

    Actually the peacekeeping missions have had benefit. The experience of dealing with IED's in Lebanon has made the DF one of the world leaders in dealing with those devices.That knowledge has beenof benefit todealing with these devices at home and abroad.

    And as has beensaid the internal threat has always beenlarger than the external for the last few decades.


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    #43
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    delta-boy
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭delta-boy


    discus wrote: »
    You have to do guard? No mpgs? Stinger!



    Aye mate one of the joys being in Colliewood


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    #45
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Thats one reason I didn't go infantry, the risk of catterick or collie!


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    #46
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    discus wrote: »
    Thats one reason I didn't go infantry, the risk of catterick or collie!

    'snot only infantry who get their turn at Garrison duties in Colliewood, y'know.

    tac


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    #47
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    I'll eat my lid if anyone from 3 Cdo Brig ever has to do it.


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    #48
    delta-boy
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭delta-boy


    discus wrote: »
    I'll eat my lid if anyone from 3 Cdo Brig ever has to do it.

    MPGS and civvies used to stag on but thanks to the blokes being naughty after being out on the weekend it reverted back to us to do the duties.

    Just take the good with the bad, yeah it's pretty rats but don't get a sad on, get a mag on and stag on ;)

    Discus are you attached to the cabbages?


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    #49
    discus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    I'm an army cabbage, passed the All Arms Commando course last year.

    I think I'm lucky where I am so. If they took away the mpgs they would have rhe single lads stag on every weekend... **** that ****


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